Suggested Archival Video Codec

[Diablooo]

Hey guys,

I know this topic has been discussed before in various forms, but I wanted to find out, with no previous preference in codec, what you would use as an archival codec in final cut pro 6. The sources I am using are VHS and 3/4" Umatic, and the material will eventually be converted for DVDs, etc.

it seems that the codecs that come up the most for this purpose are mjpeg and mpeg2, but I wanted to know what gives as close to 100% quality as possible. I would like to conserve file size, but if need be I can deal with large files.

is prores 422 an option? Is there any reason to stick with uncompressed video?

let me know what you think, thanks

[Diablooo]

also i've heard about the sheervideo lossless codec, does anyone have experience with that? I'm on a mac (obviously since im using FCP) and it seems that most of the revered lossless codecs are PC only (huffyuv)

thanks again

[Dark Shikari]

HuffYUV is part of Libavcodec, and so is available on all platforms. Same with FFV1.

[Diablooo]

as far as i can find, nobody has successfully implemented (or tried) most of the available functions of libavcodec on a mac... also I would need the output to be editable in FCP afterwards, so anything experimental would probably not be so helpful... thanks though

[von_Runkel]

I wouldn't recommend lossy when you have such noisy sources. Either keep the FCP default (Apple) "Uncompressed 4:2:2" (which shows up as Blackmagic in Windows) or - if you want to save some space - Quicktime Animation uncompressed.

I don't know what "prores 422" is.

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Looked up prores 422 and it sounds interesting, lossy but 63 Mbit/s for SD.

[Diablooo]

ProRes 422 is apple's new (lossy) codec that is intended for use with HD video to save capture space and processor load. I have been leaning toward using a lossless compression though as you say von_Runkel, as I'm worried that the Uncompressed format will simply eat up way too much space.

I'm not sure about quicktime Animation uncompressed... but i will take a look at it

[von_Runkel]

I also read that ProRes 422 is a very closed format with no support at all on the Windows platform. This is a serious issue IMHO.

The Animation codec has been around for a very long time, just maximize the compression settings and it's lossless.

[Dark Shikari]

as far as i can find, nobody has successfully implemented (or tried) most of the available functions of libavcodec on a mac... also I would need the output to be editable in FCP afterwards, so anything experimental would probably not be so helpful... thanks thoughConsidering mplayer is available for OS X, I highly doubt that "most of libavcodec hasn't been implemented"...

[Diablooo]

Dark-- is there a way to output to libavcodec from FCP that will then be editable back in FCP? I only say "as far as i can find" because I simply don't know. mplayer is great, but i need to be able to edit the footage in FC

von_runkel -- cross compatibility PROBABLY isnt an issue, but you never know. I feel that I'm leaning toward using mjpeg2000 losslessly because of compatibility at this point unless there IS an easy way to use huffyuv in FCP, but i'm not a coder, so unless its pretty straightforward I would have trouble. I will need to do a test, and ill keep the animation codec in mind.

[easy2Bcheesy]

CineForm is the obvious choice if you want small file sizes, cross-platform compatibility and the best possible quality for a non-lossless codec. All depends whether you're willing to pay for the best though.

[Diablooo]

I have decided that I'm gonna go with mjpeg2000 for archival purposes-- now comes the big question-- is there any good way to play it back or use it in final cut? I'm kind of assuming I will have to convert it back to uncompressed or otherwise in order to edit it later, but it seems like a 4 core mac pro should be able to handle it...

tried vlc and mplayer, vlc didnt accept the file at all, and mplayer only showed the audio.

[von_Runkel]

If you find a Quicktime compatible mjpeg2000 plugin it may work. It seems to be a Windows only product (correct me if I'm wrong)
Anyway, if your material is hours of footage then you will spend many hours watching FCP render your files. Not to mention the edited timeline export to MPEG-2...

If you are willing to spend $599, then I can only agree with easy2Bcheesy about CineForm. They seem to have fixed an efficient workflow for Mac's:
http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm

I've tried the codec (on XP), it looks great and doesn't seem to stress the system to much. Played 1920x1080 footage in Virtualdub at circa 15 fps on a modest 3.2 MHz P4 with a 7200 rpm SATA harddrive.

[Diablooo]

yeah the $599 for cineform is above and beyond the budget for this project... however I've been doing a bunch of research into the SheerVideo codec and it seems great for $150-- i tried it out and i was able to play lossless SD video at 30fps on my g4 powerbook, so i can imagine it flies on the mac pro i'll be using on this project.

i was hoping there would be a good free one, and while there seem to be a bunch (huffyuv, lagarith) on pcs, these are not implemented into a quicktime codec for mac, and therefore dont work with FCP.

the thing i find strange about mjpeg2000 is that it plays at the same framerate, (around 5 fps) on both my g4 powerbook and on the 4 core mac pro.... which just leads me to believe its just old tech at this point.

either way, thanks for the help guys

[Spc01]

For archiving purposes i use MPEG-2 at 10mbit or 15mbit.
That's what i would recommend you to use.
For audio use wave or PCM.