Overview of DVD -> DVD-R process.

[magnus73]

I just posted this over in the IfoEdit forum: http://mpucoder.kewlhair.com/Forum/. Thought I'd post it here too since this forum has a lot more users:

I just wanted to make a short list of the methods that exist and their respective problems.

Basic cases:

1) DVD is less than 4.38GB.

a) Easy. Rip with DVD Decryptor in ISO mode and burn. IFO will still have RCE protection but maybe that's not a problem for you.

b) Rip all files and then open up IfoEdit to strip out RCE protection in IFO. Burn.

Both these methods give you a complete copy but in case b you have to put in slightly more work (especially if the RCE protection is not automatically recognized in IfoEdit) to get a region free disc. Angles, seemless branching etc doesn't matter. Unfortunately few DVDs have this structure.

2. The streams you want amounts to less than 4.38GB.

Fairly easy too.

a) Follow the IfoEdit homepage guide to strip and burn. You may want to delete playback, remove RCE etc.

b) Strip streams and demux. You should have .mpg and .ac3 files. Streams can be demuxed with vStrip. Load into DVD Quickbuilder and create image. Burn.

In case b you only get an "insert-and-play" DVD. No menus and you have to insert chapters yourself. BUT vStrip can work with virtually ALL DVD titles. T2: UE? No problem. Disney? You got it. If you're thinking about writing your own IFO parser vStrip comes with sourcecode.

3. The streams are >4.38GB

We need to transcode or split on 2 discs.

Currently IfoEdit only works with ReMPEG2. Unfortunately it does not give the best quality. CCE SP would be a lot better. This might work soon! (Right, Derrow?) :) As I understand it it's a matter of the GOP structure being changed when you transcode with CCE.

Now, here's a question: What if we use vStrip and then transcode the videostream with CCE. Could those streams then be muxed in DVD Quickbuilder?

In that case there would be a way (although you wouldn't get menus) to back up every DVD you own! I saw that someone had a problem with Pearl Harbor R1. It's apparently on 2 discs. So is JFK R1. It should be possible to rip the VOBs, strip streams, join mpegs, transcode mpeg, mux, author and burn.
Question: How can you join .ac3 files?

Comments?

/mag

[Chumboy]

haven't found an ac3 joiner yet.
perhaps you could rip to OBV (one big vob) to get one ac3?

[Doom9]

I just uploaded a bunch of ifo-edit guides.. check them out

[magnus73]

Doom9,

there's a small error in you guide on how to put a dual aspect ratio movie onto a DVD-R. The files you end up with are 4.63GB but DVD-R can only hold 4.38GB (4.7e10^9) bytes.

/mag

[Doom9]

well.. so I'd strip a few extras.. big deal.. it's an illustrative process and it makes no use putting another section about stream and vob id stripping as this already is in that guide and others, does it? aargh you guys are picky.. can't you just be grateful that I do all that for you?

[Derrow]

Great job Doom!

You realy explained every step fine. I couldn't do it better.
Thank you for the great guide!

[magnus73]

Doom9:

Hey, man. I'm definately very appreciative for all your great work.

All I'm saying is that someone is going to follow that guide with the exact same movie and then wonder why it doesn't work. So, we'll have people asking about it when there's really no reason for it.

Keep up the good work!

/mag

[ttyboy]

Magnus,

What do you mean when you say that ReMpeg quality is not that good? I have used it several times and think the quality is pretty good.

[magnus73]

ttyboy:

Maybe you should compare it with CCE. Try a testrun and see for yourself. Also, CCE is a lot faster. AFAIK, there is NO better encoder on the market today.

/mag

[Chumboy]

magnus73,

how do you get vob files into cce?

[magnus73]

Chumboy:

You can't. You have to demux first to get a .m2v (MPEG2 video stream) that you can import into CCE. But IfoEdit doesn't work with CCE yet. When it does I will be happy! However, if all you want to do is a movie only rip you can:

1) Demux
2) Transcode with CCE
3) Mux
4) Insert manual chapter points
5) Burn

Of course you don't need IfoEdit for this so it's a little OT.

/mag

[Chumboy]

can you import a .d2v (what smartripper creates) ?

[mikeathome]

Hi,

read Robshots article how to obtain maximum quality.
http://www.robshot.com/

AND than here's the challange:
Terminator 2 - Special Edition R2
2:26 min, 7.8GIG, just the main title !

Got that one down to 4.28GIG incl. the original menues !!!

BUT, had to Re-Author it with Maestro got some trouble with Ifoedit.

mike

[tyee]

mikeathome
How do you get the original menus for reauthoring?

Tyee

[mikeathome]

Originally posted by tyee
mikeathome
How do you get the original menus for reauthoring?

Tyee

... well, that's possible with a lot effort, timing depends on your experience.

First MAIN Title:
- get everything onto the HD
- use DVD2AVI and/or Vstrip to extract the video and audio from the main title
- use DVD2AVI to make a project from video
- use Vfapi to create a virtual avi to infeed into CCESP (read Robshots article how to obtain max. quality, BUT use your brain and challenge the settings...)
- audio no changes

2'nd - The Chapters:
- use ChapterExtractor to get the chapter marks
- convert Chapterextractor format to Maestro compatible (no big deal)

3'rd - The Menues
- use Vobrator to extract audio and video from the menu-VOBs (the ones ..._0.vob
- check with DVD2AVI which contains the wanted menucontent
- use SubRib to extract the subpictures from the wanted menu-VOBs (!)
- the Vobrator x.PES is useless for this approach
- use a Picture editing proggy to scale the subpics to screen resolution (use one exported frame from the menu video to align (!)
- that's it you got now everything you need to re-build the menues with Maestro (Scenarist)
- the rest is really depending on your Maestro skills, basically you can rebuild every menu, the end apearance depend on the amount of time you are willing to invest
- Example: for T2, I rebuild everything of this nice moving 3D menus, took me about 4 hours until the burner started and it absoulutely looks like the original, even the flash effects are fully in sync with the DD/AC3 sound effects

You can't really compare that to an IfoEdit session, BUT as said before since I didn't succeed with IfoEdit (again orignal video size ~7 GIG after CCESP re-encoding ~3.5) and I WANTED to know whether it's possible or not I DID it and had SUCCESS.

mike

[magnus73]

Mike,

In your experience, how long do the first 2 steps take, i.e without menu reauthoring? I understand that the CCE transcoding time can differ.

Can a ripped subtitle stream be imported into Maestro?

/magnus

[mikeathome]

Originally posted by magnus73
Mike,

In your experience, how long do the first 2 steps take, i.e without menu reauthoring? I understand that the CCE transcoding time can differ.

Can a ripped subtitle stream be imported into Maestro?

/magnus

Hi,

Re-encoding depends on the number of passes you use with CCESP.
Minimum you get two
- 1 pass VBR constant quality
- multipass VBR (1 pass) with average bitrate set from the manual optimization

So, with a 1GHZ Athlon ~0.75fps about 1.5x the video length + the ripping (depends on your DVD-ROM speed) + DVD2AVI (5min) + Maestro import (5min) + ChapterExtractor (incl. convert to Maestro format ~5mins)
So, in total about 2x the video length, not bad, hey, BUT I normally do at least a 2-pass VBR (if not even a 3-Pass) which adds another 1.5x video length. Quality counts...

mike

[SiC]

Mike I've been following Robshot's guide also for re-encoding DVDs to fit onto a DVD-R. I'm trying to fit 2 90min movies onto 1 DVD-R (according to Robshot he did 3). My question is what did you set your average bitrate in CCE to on the second encode and what was your average Q.Factor?? I've tried 3300kbps like Robshot but my Q.Factor jumps on certain action scenes to about 13. The minimum I can go is about 4200kbps to keep the Q.Factor at an average below or at 9. But by going that high on the bitrate, I can't fit both movies onto 1 DVD-R.

[mikeathome]

Originally posted by SiC
Mike I've been following Robshot's guide also for re-encoding DVDs to fit onto a DVD-R. I'm trying to fit 2 90min movies onto 1 DVD-R (according to Robshot he did 3). My question is what did you set your average bitrate in CCE to on the second encode and what was your average Q.Factor?? I've tried 3300kbps like Robshot but my Q.Factor jumps on certain action scenes to about 13. The minimum I can go is about 4200kbps to keep the Q.Factor at an average below or at 9. But by going that high on the bitrate, I can't fit both movies onto 1 DVD-R.

Hi,

yes, it's possible that it does not fit if you going to redo some really action movies (Jackie Chan ?).

Here my settings on T2:
- movie lengths ~126 mins (don't remember exactly, but's in this range)
- second pass average after manual quantization check 3.490kbps
- original video length ~7 GIG
- after encoding ~3.8 GIG
- audio AC3 ~410MB + Menu stuff ~70MB
- overall ~4,28GIG
- Avg. Quantization Factor: 8.6
- in some scenes it jumps up-to 11-12, but only for a few frames (5-10) this is really hard to see later on the TV

Hint:
Try the AngelMatrix instead of Standard MPEG, gives bit more contrast and really sharp picture, I don't really can't see any difference from the original !
Don't forget to set Closed GOPs if you want to use Maestro !
All the rest of Robshots settings are absolut ok.

URL to AngelMatrix: http://www.dvd-svcd-forum.de/cgi-bin/dvd_board/topic.cgi?forum=36&topic=20

mike

[SiC]

Thanx for the reply, I guess it may be impossible to put 2 movies onto 1 DVD-R without losing much quality..... But I'll keep trying with other bitrates & settings though!!

[Bigbucks1959]

Greatest Guides...
Thank...

Phil K.


Originally posted by Doom9
well.. so I'd strip a few extras.. big deal.. it's an illustrative process and it makes no use putting another section about stream and vob id stripping as this already is in that guide and others, does it? aargh you guys are picky.. can't you just be grateful that I do all that for you?