Blu-Ray~DVD Backup & Conversion

[m1ckran]

Hello. Now that it looks like we'll all be using Blu-Ray sooner or later, I have a question.

I have quite a collection of DVD's and I have no intention of replacing them anytime soon. Would it be possible to backup a DVD to a BD? This might be a silly question (I'm guessing that the two standards are incompatible) but I am attracted to the idea of having a BD containing the entire Lord of the Rings SEE series, without compression, driven from a custom menu. Or how about a dozen TV-series episodes driven from a similar custom menu?

Would this be feasible and might there be any plans for DVDRB to help make this possible?

PS I understand that sound-processing is on the agenda for DVDRB. I do something like this, in a small way, by processing the AC3 sound file with BeSweet.

[steptoe]

I've thought about just that once the price comes down to an acceptable level and media prices drop accordingly but DVD media was very high to start with, compared to just 6 months ago burners have prices dropped very steeply the more manufacturers take up selling and producing them


If you have them on DVD already and want to create them onto blue-ray with a menu, I think thats beyond DVD-RB and so authoring software would be the next choice that supports blue-ray, which at present is not cheap for decent blue ray support, and for the moment blue-ray support has been removed from ulead moviefactory 5


Basically it would be a case of importing the titles into the blue-ray software and create your menu, there should be zero quality loss as you're just adding a menu and creating a blue-ray disc

[rack04]

What would you gain from converting to blue-ray?

[Video Dude]

Does Blu-Ray support the DVD elementary mpeg-2 video stream?

[Wishbringer]

It's not an answer to first question in its's origins, but maybe it helps abit:

I have same dvd's (film on two dvd's splitted like LotR EE) and several series.
Put them on harddisk, joined them with shrink, nero recode and so on (without further compression).
Created one mpg-stream and converted that to an x264 m2ts stream with megui, ripbot or similar.
Converted that to blu-ray structure with tsremux 0.20 and burned with udf 2.5 onto dvd.

With --crf 18 (compression settings for mpeg4 AVC - qualitywise nearly transparent) I can put all three LotR EEs onto one DVD9
I can put all 13 episodes of "Elfenlied" and extras onto one DVD5 (still not full)

And it's recognized by my blu-ray player as BD-Disk (PS3) and plays fine.

Putting films onto BD-Media is still abit expensive. In europe a 25GB BD-R costs 12 Euro, a 50GB BD-RE costs 40 Euro (differs in countries).
And there is no low cost menu creation/ autoring tool for BD to put some nice menues onto disk to select films.

[jdobbs]

That's interesting. So a blu-ray player (at least the PS3) will recognize and play H.264 from a standard DVD as long as it's in a blu-ray structure?

Now that's something that may be worth looking into more deeply, if for no other reason than the high-quality you can get at lower bitrates in AVC. Do you have any idea whether other (standalone) blu-ray players will play them?

Do you keep the original resolution (720x480/576)?

[Fishman0919]

I have done this with HD-DVD and BluRay movies. Down convert them from 1080p to 720p with keeping the 648k DD track sizing to fit DVD-R and played them on my PS3

[jdobbs]

Will they play on anything other than a PS3?

[Fishman0919]

not sure.... I have a few friend from work with BluRay Standalones... when I get back from VACA I can ask them to try it.

[m1ckran]

Thanks for the replies.

I was wondering if a BR disc could be used as a kind of extended DVD without having high definition content. Although it appears to be possible, perhaps that's not such a good idea.

An alternative might be to set up a PC as a home-cinema server and run everything from the hard drive using a remote control.

Still not sure what I should do but there's no panic. I'll wait and see what turns up.

Thanks again.

[jdobbs]

Actually from the research I've done over the last couple of days (not extensive by any means), it appears most players should support HD on standard DVDs in support of AVCHD and should also support SD on BD. While the BluRay discs are expensive today -- you're bound to see the price drop now that the format war is over. In fact a couple of the Taiwan based large-scale manufacturers are getting into them more deeply now.

[m1ckran]

Thanks dobbsie. Something for the future, then. I'll keep a close watch on your DVDRB enhancements.

Just a thought:- I wonder how reliable BR-R discs might be, especially considering the volume of data that could be recorded on them. One duff sector could, I imagine, wreck an entire programme and be potentially more troublesome than DVD with its more limited storage.

And thanks for your continued development of DVDRB. I don't understand much of the theory or the implications of many of the technical terms, but I find that DVDRB is now better than ever. Despite its faults I was a fan of AutoQMatEnc (running through DVDRB) but, using bitrate distribution and HcEnc, I gain far superior results with none of the "edginess" of AQE.
Well done.

[jdobbs]

I'm going to do more research. I'd like to put a capability to create BluRay discs that hold multiple DVD (SD) movies. I'd also like to see if it's possible to get an entire HD movie on a DVD-9 using H.264 (AVCHD) with any decent quality.

[jikchung]

I'm going to do more research. I'd like to put a capability to create BluRay discs that hold multiple DVD (SD) movies. I'd also like to see if it's possible to get an entire HD movie on a DVD-9 using H.264 (AVCHD) with any decent quality.


I would be thrilled to see either of those options.

[jdobbs]

It's not an answer to first question in its's origins, but maybe it helps abit:

I have same dvd's (film on two dvd's splitted like LotR EE) and several series.
Put them on harddisk, joined them with shrink, nero recode and so on (without further compression).
Created one mpg-stream and converted that to an x264 m2ts stream with megui, ripbot or similar.
Converted that to blu-ray structure with tsremux 0.20 and burned with udf 2.5 onto dvd.

With --crf 18 (compression settings for mpeg4 AVC - qualitywise nearly transparent) I can put all three LotR EEs onto one DVD9
I can put all 13 episodes of "Elfenlied" and extras onto one DVD5 (still not full)

And it's recognized by my blu-ray player as BD-Disk (PS3) and plays fine.

Putting films onto BD-Media is still abit expensive. In europe a 25GB BD-R costs 12 Euro, a 50GB BD-RE costs 40 Euro (differs in countries).
And there is no low cost menu creation/ autoring tool for BD to put some nice menues onto disk to select films.
@Wishbringer

Any way you can outline the exact steps you use to create BD player (PS3) compatible DVDs? I'd like to do some experimenting with my new Sony BluRay player. Things like "is there a required naming/folder structure" -- what settings do you use and what steps do you take with the tools... or is there a guide already posted somewhere?

[Boulder]

This thread (and tool) might interest you and others interested in the idea: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=131782

[~bT~]

if BD accepts SD material, then i think DVDRemakePro should work.

@ JD

its poss to put a HD movie on DVD9.

[jdobbs]

I did some testing and using TSREMUX I found it very easy to create a AVCHD disc. I just encode at an HD resolution (1920x1080 or 1280x720) in H.264 and AC3 with FFMPEG using .TS as the output container. TSREMUX accepts that without problem and outputs it to a AVCHD folder (creating an m2ts stream). I burn that folder to a DVD+R using ImgBurn in UDF 2.50 format... and my Sony BD player recognizes it immediately as AVCHD and plays it.

Cool. It even has 5 minute chapter marks.

[~bT~]

^ i think this is the guide: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134402

[Socio]

I have been thinking about this as well but I want to take a DVD'd process them with avisynth filters, resize them to 1920x1080 and burn them to Blu-Ray as a custom up convert.

I am sure with proper processing the custom 1080i/p up converts would look much better than any up conversion done by an HD player or scaler.

As soon as Blu-Ray burners and media drop to a reasonable price I for one plan to experiment with this for sure.

[jdobbs]

I did that earlier today. It looks quite good. I also upconverted to 1280 x 720 and at that resolution it looks like I can easily get a 2 hour movie onto a DVD-5 using AVC.

[~bT~]

^ what resizer did u use mate?

maybe u can post the script as a sample for others to try this out too?

[jdobbs]

Lanczos.

[jdobbs]

Just did a full backup of one of my BluRay discs as a test. I used FFMPEG to reencode to 1280x720 and used NicAudio() to convert to 2 channel AC3. I then used TsRemux to convert and format into AVCHD and burned to DVD-5. The movie was 2 hrs and 5 min. long and, man, it looks great when I play it back on my Sony standalone BluRay player. In fact, it looks so good I think I can just keep the 6 channel audio rather than downconverting. I may even try a 1920x1024 encode.

It is simply amazing what H.264 can do at a 4.9Mbs encoding rate. This concept has a lot of potential. Lot's of time involved, though, kinda' where DVD backups were a couple of years back.

[CupCak3]

i've been following this thread for a while...

jdobbs: That's great your tests came out so well! Is there any chance of a BR --> 720 or 1080 recode on dvd5/9 into rebuilder (or even a new tool)?

To be honest, I would probably donate again if these features would ever be implemented (especially with the additional dev time it would take you)

[Sharc]

......To be honest, I would probably donate again if these features would ever be implemented (especially with the additional dev time it would take you)
Same here :)
Could the same process/technology also be used to deliver higher quality backups of standard DVD-9s => DVD-5, compared to the current method?

[Adub]

Same here :)
Could the same process/technology also be used to deliver higher quality backups of standard DVD-9s => DVD-5, compared to the current method?

Only if played in a AVC compatible player, such as a blu-ray standalone.

[jdobbs]

Exactly. But eventually everyone will have a BluRay player (as it is the new standard) and it is my belief that AVCHD will be available on all of them as some point. It's the only real option available for HD home video recording/playback using any equipment other than the camera itself.

I think that the processing of a high-quality resizer like LanczosResize() will give you a better HD (simulated) picture than standard on-the-fly HD upscaling. In fact, you can do most of that now (all but the final authoring/burn associated with tsremux and ImgBurn) with the MOBILE function of DVD-RB. I'll probably add a preset for doing that to the next release.

[~bT~]

Same here :)
Could the same process/technology also be used to deliver higher quality backups of standard DVD-9s => DVD-5, compared to the current method?

this would be so awesome. also, doing backups of BD to DVD-5/9 is such a money saver!

[Fishman0919]

The movie was 2 hrs and 5 min. long and, man, it looks great when I play it back on my Sony standalone BluRay player. In fact, it looks so good I think I can just keep the 6 channel audio rather than downconverting. I may even try a 1920x1024 encode.


The movies I did I kept the DD 5.1.... not much of a diff in quality that I could see.

The few I did at 1080 keeping the DD 5.1 (to me) seemed a little lower in quality but still looking good.

[Video Dude]

jdobbs, did you make a 720x480 AVCHD disc to see if it is compatible with your Sony player?

I thinking this would be a good option to backup a 4 disc TV set to a DVD-5 or a 6 disc set to DVD-9.


AVCHD Specification Chart:
http://www.avchd-info.org/format/index.html

[jdobbs]

Yes, but it always plays back in 4:3 -- not sure why. So a 16:9 original looks stretched vertically and has black boxes on either side. According to the standard (from AVCHD.COM) you should be able to do 16:9 at 720x480. I tried setting the aspect in FFMPEG and it seems to have no effect. I also noticed that the aspect listed for the original H.264 streams from BluRay seems to be set for 1:1 (as it should be for HD resolutions). It may be possible that the aspect ratio is set in one of the other BD files generated by TSRemux and I don't know what it is -- but that's really speculation.

[archaeo]

Now that BD+ appears to be cracked
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=136035&page=3

I wonder what possibilities might now lie ahead for DVDRB and BluRay....

[blutach]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1114668#post1114668

[archaeo]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1114668#post1114668

@blutach,

fyi that's the same link :)

[RickA]

jdobbs I'm really pleased to see you taking an interest in h264 and hopefully the potential it can add to your already great program DVD-RB. Big fan and supporter of yours for a long time. I would gladly donate again if you integrated, or even started a new program. The idea of potentially being able to backup up a BD movie onto a DVD-5/9 is very exciting.

Not to swerve off topic or if you are even interested.. In another thread omion is working on h264 networked encoding. I'm a programing newb and have no clue how difficult network encoding for a home LAN setup would be for DVD-RB. I do recall a few threads mentioning it in the past. The idea of network encoding h264 with DVD-RB is almost enough to make me drool. :-)

Cheers,
Rick

[Sharc]

Another experiment:
I encoded a difficult scene with 2400 kbps using h.264, leaving the resolution untouched (720x576). In order to play it back on my DVD standalone I re-encoded the h.264 file to mpeg2 at the same bitrate i.e. keeping the file size. Despite the re-encoding h.264 -> mpeg2 the quality looked better compared to directly encoding the original to 2400 kbps using the mpeg2 encoder (2-pass VBR).

[jdobbs]

That means there was some smoothing in the first encode, you could probably get the same thing with filters.

[Sharc]

The original intention was to put two 2-hours movies onto a single DVD5 in "acceptable" quality - means to me no blocks at the expense of some details. Maybe strong filtering would achieve similar results as you mention. At the other hand I found that my mpeg2 => h.264 => mpeg2 approach has some optimization potential regarding the level of compression applied in the h.264 encoding pass. Anyway, as the future will bring more affordable BD players the second step (re-encoding back to mpeg2) will become obsolete.

[jdobbs]

I guess what I'm saying is that the second MPEG-2 pass can't really benefit from the h.264 pass (except maybe in its filtering). It isn't compressing the h.264 data, it is compressing the rendered image pulled from h.264. So it really looks more like this:

mpeg-2->raw picture->h.264->raw picture->mpeg-2

I will say, though, that I did an AVCHD encode of a DVD yesterday (MPEG-2->raw picture->h.264) and wrote it to a DVD-5 (movie-only, of course). The picture was perfect... not just good... to my eyes it was a perfect reproduction of the original MPEG-2 stream. So for backing up a movie-only DVD for playback on a BluRay standalone -- this method is really exciting. It definitely is slower than what many of us are used to, though.

BTW, just did a couple more backups of BD over the weekend. It really looks good. I did them at 1280x720 in h.264 with DD 5.1 @ 448Kbs. It looks fantastic on a DVD-5. Each one took 9 hours (for 2 passes) on my quad-core Phenom 9500 system, though.

[ron spencer]

that sounds cool....9 hours is not so back....just an "overnighter"

[Sharc]

.... The picture was perfect... not just good... to my eyes it was a perfect reproduction of the original MPEG-2 stream. So for backing up a movie-only DVD for playback on a BluRay standalone -- this method is really exciting.....
Cool. I continue watching the price development of BluRay standalones ...

[jdobbs]

Got mine (Sony BDP-S301) for $377 at Sam's Club.

[Boulder]

Or get a PS3 and you'll get a Blu-Ray player and some other entertainment too :)

Provided the bitrate is high enough (for example one DVD for one movie), x264 should be able to retain the original grain which makes it look very good..Sharc's observation with his x264->MPEG2 probably was due to the fact that x264 tends to lose the grain at lower bitrates, and then this provides very good compressibility when re-encoding to MPEG2, not to mention the standard deblocking feature x264 utilizes.

[jikchung]

Got mine (Sony BDP-S301) for $377 at Sam's Club.

I lucked into one from Amazon in December - $200 + 10 free titles.

[~bT~]

I lucked into one from Amazon in December - $200 + 10 free titles.
u must be on about hd-dvd players.

[Sharc]

Once we have the movie from a DVD or BD re-encoded in h.264/mp4 format it should also produce nice results when playing it back with MPC or VLC on a HD-projector, isn't it?

[Boulder]

Yep :)

[jikchung]

u must be on about hd-dvd players.
No, Sony Blu-Ray - had Spiderman 3 in the box. They had a similar special on the Toshiba HD-DVD players too.

[~bT~]

^ wow! that is so cheap. it would cost us £250 in the UK which is $500 :(

[jikchung]

Yeah, they're back up to $400 over here and no deals on free discs since HD-DVD is gone.

[blutach]

Yeah, they're back up to $400 over here and no deals on free discs since HD-DVD is gone.
Now, that's a surprise!

Regards

[Wombler]

Each one took 9 hours (for 2 passes) on my quad-core Phenom 9500 system, though.

That's not too bad though considering the amount of data involved.


Wombler

[Rectal Prolapse]

To the OP: Should be easier now that Blu-ray burners are cheaper now ($350 for the LG GGW-H20L burner and combo reader in some places).

Also, PS3 has been updated to allow playback of the LTH BD-Rs developed by Panasonic - so BD-R media should be very cheap soon (under $8 is my guess - someone mentioned they are available at that price (not discounted yet) but I haven't seen them yet - but who knows?).

[Lorax2161]

I will say, though, that I did an AVCHD encode of a DVD yesterday (MPEG-2->raw picture->h.264) and wrote it to a DVD-5 (movie-only, of course). The picture was perfect... not just good... to my eyes it was a perfect reproduction of the original MPEG-2 stream. So for backing up a movie-only DVD for playback on a BluRay standalone -- this method is really exciting. It definitely is slower than what many of us are used to, though.

This is very impressive. May I ask the specs of your TV that you view them on?

Many of us have TVs of modest size, and a lot of encodes that look good on our sets may fall apart visually on a display with better resolution. If you have a great TV and they look good on yours, that tells me a lot.

I'll throw in a vote for h.264's inclusion into DVD Rebuilder as well. What an amazing program that would be. Maybe all of our SD DVDs won't end up at yard sales after all. :)

Thanks.

[jobe228]

I've been watching this thread with interest now. I still have lots of blank DVDR and DVD9's so HD backup would be awesome if automated within DVD-RB.

[rudolfo2]

i've been following this thread for a while...

jdobbs: That's great your tests came out so well! Is there any chance of a BR --> 720 or 1080 recode on dvd5/9 into rebuilder (or even a new tool)?

To be honest, I would probably donate again if these features would ever be implemented (especially with the additional dev time it would take you)
I would gladly donate again too.

[jdobbs]

This is very impressive. May I ask the specs of your TV that you view them on?

Many of us have TVs of modest size, and a lot of encodes that look good on our sets may fall apart visually on a display with better resolution. If you have a great TV and they look good on yours, that tells me a lot.

I'll throw in a vote for h.264's inclusion into DVD Rebuilder as well. What an amazing program that would be. Maybe all of our SD DVDs won't end up at yard sales after all. :)

Thanks. I play back on a 52" Sony LCD monitor via HDMI connections. It has native 1920x1080 resolution.

[TheBreen]

This sounds exciting! I am just catching up with the world of HD, so please tell me if I have this right. DVD-RB might in future be able to take a full BR rip and compress it to a DVD9 for example, which would result in video quality superior to a DVD9 commercial release? And this high-quality copy would play in a stand-alone BR player or HTPC with BR reader.

I take it DVD-RB would require a standard BR video format? Or is there some possibility of converting MKV files or even HD-DVD format to compressed BR-format-on-DVD?

[Sharc]

..... I will say, though, that I did an AVCHD encode of a DVD yesterday (MPEG-2->raw picture->h.264) and wrote it to a DVD-5 (movie-only, of course). The picture was perfect... not just good... to my eyes it was a perfect reproduction of the original MPEG-2 stream. So for backing up a movie-only DVD for playback on a BluRay standalone -- this method is really exciting. It definitely is slower than what many of us are used to, though.

BTW, just did a couple more backups of BD over the weekend. It really looks good. I did them at 1280x720 in h.264 with DD 5.1 @ 448Kbs. It looks fantastic on a DVD-5. Each one took 9 hours (for 2 passes) on my quad-core Phenom 9500 system, though.

What about doing the same - i.e. DVD movie backups and BD novie backups onto DVD5/9 - using XviD encoder instead of H.264 AVCHD? Would the results be similar, or is it expected to be much inferior? Would the resolution have to be kept to 720*480/576, or would upsizing (720p) for DVD's also be an option?
I am asking because most (low cost) DVD standalone players can playback XviD files today.

[Boulder]

AFAIK, standalones don't support XviD's advanced features much..for example custom quantization matrices cause problems. The standalone-compatible profile is quite limited.

See the hardware players section, I think there's a good amount of information there.

[jdobbs]

XviD just doesn't deliver the same quality at the same bitrate as H.264. It does significantly better than MPEG-2 -- but not as well as AVC. Also, XviD wouldn't be able to playback HD, and it isn't compatible with BluRay players (at least none that I've seen).

[~bT~]

What about doing the same - i.e. DVD movie backups and BD novie backups onto DVD5/9 - using XviD encoder instead of H.264 AVCHD? Would the results be similar, or is it expected to be much inferior? Would the resolution have to be kept to 720*480/576, or would upsizing (720p) for DVD's also be an option?
I am asking because most (low cost) DVD standalone players can playback XviD files today.
that would be a disaster IMO.

[Sharc]

Thanks for the comments. Apparently main problem with XviD is the missing standards which put compatibility with different DVD standalones at risk.

[laserfan]

Also, XviD wouldn't be able to playback HDNot sure what you mean by this. I can convert 1920x1080p high-bitrate programs to 720p HD Xvid and play them back on my Sigma Designs HD media player (over my network). The only way to tell the conversion from the original is in a side-by-side comparison.

[jdobbs]

The discussion was about playback on a standalone player. See the two posts just before mine.

[laserfan]

The discussion was about playback on a standalone player.Ah, you meant a DVD player. NM!

[jdobbs]

In testing I've done a number of these now. I backup to DVD-5 using 1280x720 and AC3 @448Kbs. I also have done a group of them at 1920x1080 on DVD-9 with the AC3@640Kbs (typical for Blu-Ray).

They look really, really good. Not just "ok" -- but to my eyes they are pretty much lossless reproductions of the original. Interestingly... even through my 52" LCD display has a native resolution of 1920x1080... I really can't tell the difference in sound or video between the two (DVD-5 and DVD-9) formats.

[Wombler]

In testing I've done a number of these now. I backup to DVD-5 using 1280x720 and AC3 @448Kbs. I also have done a group of them at 1920x1080 on DVD-9 with the AC3@640Kbs (typical for Blu-Ray).

They look really, really good. Not just "ok" -- but to my eyes they are pretty much lossless reproductions of the original. Interestingly... even through my 52" LCD display has a native resolution of 1920x1080... I really can't tell the difference in sound or video between the two (DVD-5 and DVD-9) formats.

Amazing!

So DVD-5 is a more than realistic prospect.

I might switch to Blu-Ray yet! :)


Wombler

[Fishman0919]

My copy of "I Am Legend" from BluRay onto a DVD5 at 720p with 640K AC3 looks, to me, as good as the Org. Really no need, right now, to buy Blank BluRay discs.... DVD5 and DVD9 work just fine.

[jdobbs]

I think it's the incredible efficiency of the h.264 codec. I've been using X264 to create the video. I feed it an AVS file that uses DirectShowSource() -- and have the FFDSHOW pack installed (with MPEG-2 decoding enabled) so it covers the source formats. In case anyone else wants to try it, here are the tools I've been using for testing:

1. TSMuxer -- to extract the audio when I'm reencoding it. (sometimes I'll use FFMPEG to reencode from 640Kbs AC3 5.1 to 448Kbs AC3 5.1). TSMuxer can also convert DTS-HD and AC3-HD to "standard" types during the demux.
2. BDEdit -- Most discs contain a single M2TS stream that contains the entire movie. But some (e.g. discs with more than one version like theatrical and special) use multiple stream files. BDEdit identifies file that are linked together to make one "version". TSMuxer can then be used to append them together.
3. X264 to reencode the video.
4. TSMuxer -- to remux the new video with the audio and create a "Blu-ray" folder.
5. ImgBurn -- to burn to UDF 2.5 format on either DVD+-R DVD-5 or DVD-9.

You can also just use RIPBOT264 and it will do all the work for you on most discs. I like to have control, though, so I do it mostly by hand.

To playback, I simply insert the disc into my Sony standalone. It sees the disc as "AVCHD" and plays back in high-def.

As I watch I simply marvel at the quality. I honestly thought it would be harder than this. My opinion based upon what I have seen is that it is a myth that huge "blu-ray disc sizes" are required for decent high-def. The increased efficiency of the h.264 codec is alone enough to compress HD to DVD sizes.

Of course there is still that "it takes a long time to encode" issue. I've gotten the time down a little on my quad-core Phenom machine -- but it still is an overnight task. It can also have a very heavy disc requirement. It's not unusual for the original disc to take up 40GB on you hard drive, and during processing you may sometimes need 60GB or more. Also, currently "movie-only" HD backups are the only kind I've attempted.

[Sharc]

In testing I've done a number of these now. I backup to DVD-5 using 1280x720 and AC3 @448Kbs. I also have done a group of them at 1920x1080 on DVD-9 with the AC3@640Kbs (typical for Blu-Ray).

They look really, really good. Not just "ok" -- but to my eyes they are pretty much lossless reproductions of the original. Interestingly... even through my 52" LCD display has a native resolution of 1920x1080... I really can't tell the difference in sound or video between the two (DVD-5 and DVD-9) formats.
Your test results are about backup of standard DVDs using h264/AVCHD onto DVD5 or backup of Blu-Ray onto DVD5/9?

Edit:
Simultaneous posting.... -> So you refer to the backup of Blu-Ray Disks.

[Fishman0919]

huge "blu-ray disc sizes" are required for decent high-def.

Well... with the large BluRay disc size... you could fit several excellent quality 720p HD movies on 1 disc.

A 25gb blank should yield 5 movies.

[jdobbs]

Your test results are about backup of standard DVDs using h264/AVCHD onto DVD5 or backup of Blu-Ray onto DVD5/9? In the last couple of posts I've been talking about backing up Blu-ray originals to DVD+-R. I've done h.264 backups of DVDs as well, though. I managed to fix the 720x480 aspect issue I ran into earlier -- with X264 you need to use SAR-based ratios to correct playback. I never got it to work with FFMPEG.EXE, though. I'd love to find out how that's done. Backing up DVD with X264 gives you a pretty much perfect movie-only copy of your original. In fact, you could probably fit 2-3 of them on a DVD-5 with near-perfect reproduction -- but I don't know how to do that yet (so you could select them) with the tools I currently have available and haven't tested it.

I've also done some up-scaling of DVDs to 1280x720 from the original 720x480...

[Fishman0919]

In the last couple of posts I've been talking about backing up Blu-ray originals to DVD+-R. I've done h.264 backups of DVDs as well, though. I managed to fix the 720x480 aspect issue I ran into earlier -- with X264 you need to use SAR ratios to correct playback. Backing up DVD with X264 gives you a pretty much perfect movie-only copy of your original. In fact, you could probably fit 2-3 of them on a DVD-5 with near-perfect reproduction -- but I don't know how to do that yet (so you could select them) with the tools I currently have available.

Have you tried fitting a single DVD onto a CD-R... that was my next project.... I'am away from home now and a bit busy with work.

Probably have to convert the audio to 2 ch... or just use the 2 ch AC3.

[jdobbs]

Hmmm. I guess it would be a good academic test -- but with DVD+R discs as cheap as they are, I'm not sure there's a lot of advantage. I'll run one through today for the hell of it. It would be interesting to know if the player recognizes the AVCHD format on CD-R...

[Fishman0919]

Hmmm. I guess it would be a good academic test -- but with DVD+R discs as cheap as they are, I'm not sure there's a lot of advantage. I'll run one through today for the hell of it. It would be interesting to know if the player recognizes the AVCHD format on CD-R...


I was going to do it most or less for sh#@! and giggles. But it would be nice to know it's possible

[Sharc]

I managed to fix the 720x480 aspect issue I ran into earlier -- with X264 you need to use SAR-based ratios to correct playback. I never got it to work with FFMPEG.EXE, though. I'd love to find out how that's done. Backing up DVD with X264 gives you a pretty much perfect movie-only copy of your original............
I've also done some up-scaling of DVDs to 1280x720 from the original 720x480...
Hmmm, would it be possible to include the x264 encoder in DVD-RB plus suitable profiles in the MOBILE section for DVD movie backups?

[jdobbs]

You may have noticed I included an experimental profile that does 1280x720 up-converting for AVCHD in the 1.27.3 release (under the MOBILE profiles). It uses FFMPEG to encode. You may want to try it. You'd just have to, then, use TSMuxer to bring the video/audio into the right format (the audio file is already demuxed and exists in the D2VAVS directory, or you could use the 2 channel reencode that is output into the TS file of the profile) and output to Blu-ray format.

It's my intent to include X264 in either the next release or the one after that for that purpose.

[Sharc]

:thanks:

[duramaximus]

You may have noticed I included an experimental profile that does 1280x720 up-converting for AVCHD in the 1.27.3 release (under the MOBILE profiles). It uses FFMPEG to encode. You may want to try it. You'd just have to, then, use TSMuxer to bring the video/audio into the right format (the audio file is already demuxed and exists in the D2VAVS directory, or you could use the 2 channel reencode that is output into the TS file of the profile) and output to Blu-ray format.

It's my intent to include X264 in either the next release or the one after that for that purpose.

Sooooo happy to hear this!!!!!

I am currently playing with Ripbot264 and blurays. The quality, like you said, is amazing!

I currently am a subscriber to your products and look forward to the future releases.

You rock!!!!

[Video Dude]

Is there subtitle support in AVCHD?

[jdobbs]

I believe so, but I haven't tested it.

[rudolfo2]

Is backup of the Blu-ray DVD really necessary ?? Blu-Ray DVD is protected with coating to last at least 30 years ( according to Sony ).I would concentrate on transfer of current standard movies to Blu-Ray.To go from seven racks ( 200 titles each ) to just one or two on Blu-Ray media would be for me fantastic, I wouldn't ask for more.

[blutach]

Sorry, I don't believe people who put rootkits on CDs and pirate software from small s/w houses while closing down people who try to help you back up your legally purchased material.

Regards

[jdobbs]

There's also the other uses that are prevented (like Linux compatibility, simpler software players, editing, etc.) Also... have you played any of these commercial BD discs on your standalone BD player? The start up time can sometimes be several minutes -- while you stare aimlessly at the "loading..." screen. I can put an AVCHD disc into my player and it starts immediately.

It's all about giving the people what they want -- not forcing them to take what you want them to have.

I also like the idea of adding multiple DVD titles to a single BD... but the price is going to have to come down a lot (as I'm sure it will) before it's justified economically. Right now it costs $25.00 to get the same space as $3.00 in DVD+R discs.

[rudolfo2]

I just found at newegg.com 25x cake ( Blu-Ray-R ) for $ 199,00, that's $ 8 a piece.Quality is ?? here, but it's a start.

[cdanddvdpublisher]

I just found at newegg.com 25x cake ( Blu-Ray-R ) for $ 199,00, that's $ 8 a piece.Quality is ?? here, but it's a start.

Well, as long as its not horrible quality, how can you go wrong with that price?!

[steptoe]

So if you're adding some support for Blue-Ray to DVD, does this mean there is a slim possibility of adding the support to accept AVI files to DVD


Time to donate some more again I think as a lot of people are very interested in this idea of Blue-Ray to DVD

[Sharc]

I backed up the movie from a standard DVD onto DVD5 using x264 and upscaling to 720p. Average bitrate 2200 kbps. Quality is very good, on my old system (P4 2.5G) it took 28 hours to complete the job => Time to investigate the quality of single pass encoding with x264 for comparison....

[jdobbs]

Hehe... no kidding. Actually I have a little app I put together for doing that. But I haven't used it much. You can also change the first pass to make it a lot faster and still keep the quality of the second pass.

x264 has great quality -- but all the extra processing that makes it so much more efficient also takes a lot of cpu... it's about like MPEG-2 encoding a few years ago.

[Boulder]

it took 28 hours to complete the job => Time to investigate the quality of single pass encoding with x264 for comparison....CRF at 18 is considered transparent by many.

[Sharc]

I made a short test clip of a difficult scene with CRF=29 which resulted in an average bitrate of about 2200 kbps - ie similar to the former 2-pass. The result was still amazingly good and not noticeably worse than the previous 2 pass encode.

[jdobbs]

I've noticed (at least in the limited testing I've done) that most of my CRF values for 1280x720 on DVD-5 come in between 18.5 and 21. I'm still running tests on 1920x1080 on DVD-9.

[Sharc]

Has anyone tried to playback anamorphic upscaled DVDs on BluRay standalones or on a PS3? On SW players it seems to work. Is "anamorphic" included in the BluRay standard?

[jdobbs]

Yes it is. But, I can tell you that if you are encoding it with x264 you have to set the aspect to some odd values because it is based on SAR. For example on a 720x480 source that you want to display (anamorphic) in 16:9 you have to set it to "--sar 32:27"

Here's a list I pulled from a table I found online:

720x480 (NTSC)
- 4:3 -> --sar 8:9
- 16:9 -> --sar 32:27

704x480 (NTSC Crop)
- 4:3 -> --sar 10:11
- 16:9 -> --sar 40:33

720x576 (PAL)
- 4:3 -> --sar 16:15
- 16:9 -> --sar 64:45

704x576 (PAL Crop)
- 4:3 -> --sar 12:11
- 16:9 -> --sar 16:11

Hope this helps. It was something I had to deal with when I started trying DVD conversions to Blu-ray.

Of course the 1280x720 and 1920x1080 conversions both have a sar of 1:1.

[Sharc]

Yes, I went through this painful experience with the SAR. Thank you for clarification. I assume the SAR is not specified / flagged in the original stream, i.e. one has to set it manually?

[jdobbs]

The aspect ratio of the source is the display aspect ratio and is either 16:9 or 4:3, in the source stream's sequence_header as well as the IFO. You have to be careful though, and use the aspect shown in the IFO. There were a few older 16:9 DVDs that had the aspect set to 4:3 in the stream and 16:9 in the IFO. The IFO drives the real output aspect ratio in DVD -- so use that one.

Since there are only two aspect ratios (4:3 and 16:9) in DVD and almost all DVDs are 720x480 or 720x576, it makes it a little easier.

[Sharc]

:thanks: for the explanations. Very clear now, helps to quit my trial-and-error attempts.

[Sharc]

I feel reasonably comfortable now with the DAR, SAR, PAR, cropping etc. Now the question: Would I eventually have to add black borders to fill the gap to the 1280 x 720 or 1920 x 1080 respectively, after upscaling a standard DVD (cropped or uncropped) in order to comply with the BluRay standard and to ensure the playback on a Blu-Ray standalone?
I am asking because I have no Blu-Ray standalone yet to verify the results.

[jdobbs]

For 16:9 you definitely wouldn't. I haven't tried with 4:3. I would guess that it would be easiest to resize the output to 1:1 and add the borders -- unless you keep it 720x480/576. I could probably do a couple of encodes with the SAR set differently and see what happens. I think it will add the bars itself. Bars and top and bottom would generally remain the same when you upscale (from DVD).

[Sharc]

The necessity to add black bars may also depend on if we crop the bars of the DVD pictures before upscaling/encoding, or if we upscale/encode including the bars of the original anamorphic DVD - wasting some bits for encoding the black bars.
The SAR is not depending on the cropping, though.

[~bT~]

^ yes, you would need to add borders.

[RickA]

Greets,

Looks like the idea of putting HD content onto a SD DVD is spreading. Stumbled across a few guides on other sites. Glad to see the interest growing. :-)

http://www.elurauser.com/articles/avchd_to_bluray.jsp
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=667462&page=1&pp=30
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

Cheers,
Rick

[mrchri5]

Do you see AVCHD becoming a standard way to back up blu-ray discs until the prices for blank discs come down?

I tried ripbot a few times and had trouble getting the file size down to dvd-5. Also the program just stopped working during a pass.

I'm not very technical so I would gladly pay for a new version or add on to dvd rebuilder when it works reliably.

Will it ever be possible to do anything but movie only avchd discs?

thanks

[jdobbs]

Interestingly, I've noticed that the discs I've been creating lately with TSMuxer aren't detected as AVCHD. My standalone player sees them as BD-ROM. But to answer your question, yes. I think backing up HD to DVD-5 or DVD-9 discs that are formated for UDF 2.5 in BD format is going to be the way to go until Blu-ray blanks become affordable.

Since the player sees the discs as BD-ROM, that would seem to also imply that you could do backups or authoring other than movie-only (but I haven't tried).

[Discoboy]

Interestingly, I've noticed that the discs I've been creating lately with TSMuxer aren't detected as AVCHD. My standalone player sees them as BD-ROM.

I've noticed the same also with a Panasonic DMP-BD30.

For software DVD players PDVD 7 & 8 show BR-ROM, but the latest WinDVD does show as AVCHD!

[jdobbs]

Something has changed in the way it writes them, the ones I used to do (although I may have been using TSRemux instead) all were recognized as "AVCHD" on my Sony player -- but now all are seen as BD-ROM.

[Discoboy]

Something has changed in the way it writes them, the ones I used to do (although I may have been using TSRemux instead) all were recognized as "AVCHD" on my Sony player -- but now all are seen as BD-ROM.

Hi jdobbs,

I am now not so sure this issue is to do with the latest version of "tsMuxeR" 1.8.4. I have not been using TSremux so maybe this is the reason for your problem? I am now only using tsMuxeR and all is well since I did the following below:

I have now done 2 things since my latest BD to AVCHD DVD-9 conversion projects:

1. Updated my stand-alone player Panasonic DMP-BD30 to the latest firmware 1.0 --> 1.3
2. Flashed my Pioneer DVR-215 burner with the latest modified firmware that now forces bitting set to DVD-ROM book type for DVD-5 (DVD+R) and DVD-9 (DVD+R DL) of burnt media (Verb's)

After the above, now my stand-alone player always displays the disc a "DVD" and shows it a AVCHD via on-screen play menu.

Hope this info is of help to you? :helpful:

Regards,
Discoboy

[jdobbs]

Actually it isn't a problem. I want it to seem them as BD-ROM.

[Discoboy]

OK then that’s OK for you then. :)
My Panasonic unit will only show BD if a bd-rom media disc is used and DVD if a dvd-rom disc is used. AVCHD will show up once play is pressed a dvd-rom disc is used.

[atreides93]

Sorry if this is an obvious question, but from what I've read, the blu ray standard supports both MPEG-2 and h.264 (mpeg4) encoding.
I guess what I don't get, is if newer movies are already encoded using H.264, then how are you achieving such a space savings by re-encoding them?
On wikipedia, they were saying that early BD movies were encoded with mpeg-2, so that would make sense...but newer ones are supposed to be using H.264 now.? or did they never change to it?

[moviefan]

Sure, many movie are encoded using H.264, but they waste bitrate all over the place (in my eyes just to justify the 50 GB disc space of a Blu-ray). With optimized settings, maybe pre-processing, good encoder settings, you can compress the movie a lot more at almost transparent quality. No one keeps you from encoding the same content at either e.g. 5 Mbps or at 25 Mbps...

[jdobbs]

Exactly. Just because you use the bitrate, that doesn't mean you needed it. This is a definite truism based upon what I've seen.

[atreides93]

This is pretty exciting. What I'd like to do is get a Blu-Ray Rom drive, then using ANYdvd, decrypt it whatever bluray movie I buy, re encode to a smaller size and then copy it to this little box. http://www.tvixbox.com/product_details.php?product_id=23

I already do this with an Mvix which handles standard DVD's fine. Its so convenient having all your movies in a portable box you can take with you when visiting the parents and leave all the disks at home.

[rernst]

Will they play on anything other than a PS3?

If you recode to H.264 (or keep them that way) they will play on any PC. You can play this on most media servers that support h.264.

[jdobbs]

If you recode to H.264 (or keep them that way) they will play on any PC. You can play this on most media servers that support h.264.
I was thinking more along the lines of standalone players.

[atreides93]

Jdobbs, was wondering if you're still actively working on adding support for backing up a BD to a DVD-5 or DVD-9 ?
I got a PS3 recently, and what I'd love to be able to do is copy my bluray movies to the hard disk on the ps3 and then take the ps3 to my folks house when I visit them.
I've googled how to convert bluray to mp4 (h.264 with aac audio) and every guide I've seen reminds me of the rather tedious and painful methods of backing up DVD's I used to do. I just don't have the same kind of free time like I used to back then :)

[jarthel]

is there a guide that uses dvd-rb that backup dvd to BD-like format (using blank dvds as medium)? I would like to resize the video to full HD just because we will be buying a 52in setup in the very near future.

ps. I know about upsampling dvd players but I'm hoping resizing it during the encode process would provide better results. :)

[jdobbs]

The easiest way right now is to use the MOBILE encoding option with the "Experimental AVCHD, 1280x720" template. It will create a .TS file as output. Then just select that .TS from within TSREMUX (search DOOM9 for the TSREMUX thread) and tell it to output to Blu-ray format. Burn the contents of the output folder to DVD-R using ImgBurn in UDF 2.5 mode.

You may want to adjust the video bitrate depending on the movie size.

[atreides93]

I picked up a BD-ROM drive and have been happily experimenting with backing up my only bluray disk which is 3:10 to Yuma. I'm using a method described in a blog : http://www.washabledryink.com/2008/04/blu-ray-to-mp4mkv-step-3/

Since my main goal is creating backups that I can copy to my PS3's hard drive and play in HD. The PS3 will play back mp4 files that are encoded with AVC H.264 for the video and AAC audio.

The only problem is that the encoding speed is incredibly slow even on my Athlon X2 64 4400. The 2nd pass is encoding between 2 or 3 fps. So should take around 24 hours for a single disk. OH well I don't have many blu ray's anyway (one so far)

[jdobbs]

There isn't a whole lot you can do about that. If you set X264 for high-quality on the second pass it is very CPU intensive. I have a quad processor and I only get about 6-7fps on the second pass -- with 100% CPU utilization on all four cores.

Lot's of work to do in H.264 encoding... it feels a lot like MPEG-2 encoding was a few years back.

But the quality sure is outstanding. I've been doing 1920x1080p encodings to single layer DVD on the last few discs, and it looks outstanding. I backed up my copy of Apocalypto yesterday. It's a fairly long movie with lots of movement and detail (in the jungle) -- and it looks really impressive. The people I show it to can't tell the difference from the original.

One thing I found that speeds it up a little was installing the CoreAVC codec. It's fairly cheap and decodes the original stream (for reencoding) quite fast. Of course that will only help on originals that are X264 (as opposed to MPEG-2 or VC-1)

[Sharc]

If you are out for speed you may want to try Xvid @ 1280 x720 single pass Q2 or Q3. Quality is very reasonable, however I don't know if it is compatible with PS3.

[jdobbs]

It's definitely not Blu-ray compatible, I'm not sure if the PS3 plays it.

[Morbo]

You all using deblock in your scripts?...if the source is direct BD,...no need for it IMHO....and it speeds up a bit.

Just my .02

[rudolfo2]

Anyone could comment on this Toshiba news:At the end of 2008 Toshiba will bring on the market SD DVD player equipped with much improved upscale chips so the BD will no longer be needed.The picture quality will be almost the same and the bigger catalog of old titles will make all the benefits.

[jdobbs]

[snicker] You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[jdobbs]

You all using deblock in your scripts?...if the source is direct BD,...no need for it IMHO....and it speeds up a bit.

Just my .02 How do you turn it off? I know how to make is sharper (with negative values), but I'm not sure how you disable it.

[Sophocles]

'd also like to see if it's possible to get an entire HD movie on a DVD-9 using H.264 (AVCHD) with any decent quality.

I need to keep up with news but this is a long standing hope of mine. I suspect that a BR disc can be compressed using H/X/264 to a dual layer disc (size) with some obvious loss in in quality but still better than standard DVD. I've seen 1 hour compressions that are well under 5 gigabytes with very good quality in WMV (1080P).

[rendez2k]

I need to keep up with news but this is a long standing hope of mine. I suspect that a BR disc can be compressed using H/X/264 to a dual layer disc (size) with some obvious loss in in quality but still better than standard DVD. I've seen 1 hour compressions that are well under 5 gigabytes with very good quality in WMV (1080P).

Isn't this essentially what RipBot264 is doing? I compressed a blue ray movie to a dual layer and it looks great!

[Sophocles]

Isn't this essentially what RipBot264 is doing? I compressed a blue ray movie to a dual layer and it looks great!

What was the final file size? Can it be backed up to standard dual layer that can be made playable on a standalone? Just a thought.

I've been trying so many different ways of doing this and none of them seems to have the answer. Remember, before DVD burners hit the shelves we were all faced with compromises? If one wanted a standalone playable disc they had to transcode it to VCD for one disc or SVCD across several discs. The best backup choice was of course Xvid/DiVx which didn't play on either without a computer and a mouse click, but was far more efficient.

[rendez2k]

The disc is full. But its a blue ray structure on a dual layer DVD. All I can test it on is the PC and my PS3 - and it works great on both. Obviously some compression has had to be done but it looks great and is full 1080 resolution. I've only done one movie and haven't messed with the program much beyond that but I think it has other output options.

[Sophocles]

The disc is full. But its a blue ray structure on a dual layer DVD. All I can test it on is the PC and my PS3 - and it works great on both. Obviously some compression has had to be done but it looks great and is full 1080 resolution. I've only done one movie and haven't messed with the program much beyond that but I think it has other output options.

Cool! I use a PC for my disc playbacks anyway and use PowerDVD for playback so I should be fine. I'll give a try.

[rendez2k]

Be waned - it takes a very long time (even on my quad core!). jdobbs: don't let this put you off you're project - I'm looking forward to what ever you develop!

[Sophocles]

The disc is full. But its a blue ray structure on a dual layer DVD. All I can test it on is the PC and my PS3 - and it works great on both. Obviously some compression has had to be done but it looks great and is full 1080 resolution. I've only done one movie and haven't messed with the program much beyond that but I think it has other output options.

Not a problem I have only dual core PCs but I have one with an Opteron 170, 175, Intels' D945, E6600, E6700, and an E8400@3.84 GHz. All of them are quite overclocked and time is not a problem. Ripping it to the one used with a limited number of BR/HD drives is the problem. LOL

[jdobbs]

To add to what has been said: In fact because X264 (H.264/AVC) is so efficient -- you can back up an entire HD movie to a single layer disc with very high quality. Lately I've been doing all of my Blu-Ray movie-only backups to DVD-5.

Can you backup HD to DVD? I have a shelf full of 1920x1080p backups that say "yes".

[Sophocles]

jdobbs


So what you're saying is that there is a DVD RB HD version in the making?:P


Can you backup HD to DVD? I have a shelf full of 1920x1080p backups that say "yes".

I have shelves of less than desirable outcomes.

Hmm!. I have an unintentionally well constructed testing lab, and I'm always ready to experiment.

[jdobbs]

Yes in the making (BD Rebuilder), but not close to completion. My programming time has been pretty limited lately.

All you really need to create a good movie-only disc is FFDSHOW, HAALI Media Splitter, AVISYNTH, X264 and TSMUXER. You just create an AVISYNTH file that uses DirectShowSource() to read the original. Haali Media Splitter will handle the M2TS and FFDSHOW the playback. Then encode using X264 (I have a .BAT I can give you with settings that make the stream compliant). Use TSMUXER to demux any audio and subtitles you want, then use it again to mux the new video, audio, and subs into blu-ray format. You can then burn to DVD using ImgBurn set for UDF 2.50. Put it in a Blu-ray standalone and it will see/play it as a blu-ray disc. You can also play the resulting M2TS back on your PC if you want.

[Sophocles]

All you really need to create a good movie-only disc is FFDSHOW, HAALI Media Splitter, AVISYNTH, X264 and TSMUXER.

Thanks jd, I have them and moving forward.


My programming time has been pretty limited lately.

Sounds so much like when DVD burners first hit the shelves. Before that it was VCD/SVCD to have a playable standalone disc. I'll play for a while and see what turns up.:D

[atreides93]

These days I'm just converting to a m2ts file (muxed with TsMuxer) and so far they play great on my PS3. I was not successful in getting a bluray structure to play on my PS3 when burned to dvd-r though..but I suspect the problem is with my encoding somehow... That's interesting if ripbot produced something you could mux into a bluray structure and play it on a ps3.
honestly though, I don't care so much about that...I think in the future I'll either always use a ps3 like device which will play m2ts files..or a simple media player like a Tvix or Mvix which will play m2ts files as well I'm sure.
I am blown away by the quality of h.264....I never really liked my divx encodes...and the audio sync issues I always had were beyond annoying. So now that I have a nice and relatively simple way to back up the movies only I'm pretty damn happy right now :)

[Groucho2004]

I have a .BAT I can give you with settings that make the stream compliant

Could you please post your batch file here?

[jdobbs]

Ok. Here is the .BAT, it is placed in the same directory as the .AVS file and you have to set the file name and bitrate before running (first two lines). The bitrate is calculated based upon the size (in frames) of the input. Note that for readability I've broken the X264 commands into multiple lines here but in the .BAT file the entire command is on one line.

@SET IN_TITLE=FILETITLE
@SET IN_BITRATE=5240
TIME /T
"E:\X264\x264.exe" "%IN_TITLE%.AVS" --bitrate %IN_BITRATE% --level 4.1 --sar 1:1
--aud --vbv-bufsize 14745 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --filter 0,0 --bframes 3 --direct auto
--keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --subme 2 --analyse none --me dia --threads auto --thread-input
--progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --stats "stats2.log" --pass 1 --output NUL
TIME /T
"E:\X264\x264.exe" "%IN_TITLE%.AVS" --bitrate %IN_BITRATE% --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 --aud
--vbv-bufsize 14745 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --filter 0,0 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3
--keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --subme 6 --trellis 1
--analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --me umh --threads auto --thread-input
--progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --stats "stats2.log" --pass 2 --output "%IN_TITLE%.264"
TIME /T
PAUSE
Comments from any X264 experts out there who could improve the command lines are certainly welcome.


[Edit - 09/03/08] Updated to limit key interval to 24 -- due to 1 sec limit on BD.

[Groucho2004]

Thanks a lot!

[laserfan]

...Use TSMUXER...to mux the new video, audio, and subs into blu-ray format. You can then burn to DVD using ImgBurn set for UDF 2.50. Put it in a Blu-ray standalone and it will see/play it as a blu-ray disc. You can also play the resulting M2TS back on your PC if you want.

These days I'm just converting to a m2ts file (muxed with TsMuxer) and so far they play great on my PS3. I was not successful in getting a bluray structure to play on my PS3 when burned to dvd-r though...
Is this true? That a simple movie.m2ts burned w/UDF2.50 will play on any BR standalone player? Without the BD structure?

For some reason I thought you had to have a BR burner (and of course BR recordable disc) to get an HD movie to play on a BR player??? :confused:

[Boulder]

Comments from any X264 experts out there who could improve the command lines are certainly welcome.I'm in no means an x264 expert, but from what I know, using --bframes 16 and --bpyramid is recommended. Also make sure you have an up-to-date x264 build which includes the adaptive quantization feature.

[Sharc]

--sar 1:1
Are BD native square pixel, or does the original picture need to be resized before encoding? Else --sar x:y to be set accordingly?

[jdobbs]

I'm in no means an x264 expert, but from what I know, using --bframes 16 and --bpyramid is recommended. Also make sure you have an up-to-date x264 build which includes the adaptive quantization feature.
Hmmm.... I was fairly certain that 3 was the maximum for b-frames. Maybe someone else will weigh in.

[jdobbs]

Is this true? That a simple movie.m2ts burned w/UDF2.50 will play on any BR standalone player? Without the BD structure?

For some reason I thought you had to have a BR burner (and of course BR recordable disc) to get an HD movie to play on a BR player??? :confused: No. That's not exactly what I said. If you use TSMUXER's blu-ray output it creates the BD file structure. You don't need a blu-ray disc, though. A DVD will work fine.

[Boulder]

Hmmm.... I was fairly certain that 3 was the maximum for b-frames. Maybe someone else will weigh in.16 B-frames is the maximum, and as you are using adaptive B-frames, x264 makes the decision of how many B-frames to actually use.

This is a nice pdf guide to many of the options: http://mulder.dummwiedeutsch.de/pub/x264/

[jdobbs]

16 B-frames is the maximum, and as you are using adaptive B-frames, x264 makes the decision of how many B-frames to actually use.

This is a nice pdf guide to many of the options: http://mulder.dummwiedeutsch.de/pub/x264/It will make the decision -- but not go over the max you set (or at least that was my understanding -- I've a ways to go before knowing all the X264 options completely).

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to add them and see how it looks... Do you know if there is a b-frame limit in AVCHD? I'm trying to remember where I saw that...

[jdobbs]

--sar 1:1
Are BD native square pixel, or does the original picture need to be resized before encoding? Else --sar x:y to be set accordingly? That's because 1920x1080 and 1280x720 are both naturally 16:9 (square). If you use a 720x480 source (moving a DVD video to BD format) you'd have to change the SAR to 32:27.

[jdobbs]

16 B-frames is the maximum, and as you are using adaptive B-frames, x264 makes the decision of how many B-frames to actually use.

This is a nice pdf guide to many of the options: http://mulder.dummwiedeutsch.de/pub/x264/ I just found in mewiki that although the X264 maximum is 16, you have to settle for less if doing HD-DVD or Blu-ray. But it didn't give a limit. I know I saw 3 somewhere -- and all the examples I find online are set to 3... still researching.

[Sharc]

That's because 1920x1080 and 1280x720 are both naturally 16:9 (square)......
Yes, but the movie picture is often not 16:9. An 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 movie for example may be stored either
a) letterboxed (with top and bottom borders), or
b) horizontally squeezed (anamorphic).
In case a) sar is 1:1 as I understand
In case b) however the pixel aspect ratio will not be 1:1 and needs to be signalled as sar x:y for correct playback as I understand. Is the pixel aspect ratio standardized for anamorpic BD similar to PAL or NTSC DVDs, or does case b) for BD sources not exist at all?

[jdobbs]

If you are reading it from a Blu-ray disc it has to be one of those resolutions -- meaning it is in reality 16:9 that is encapsulating the other resolution with black bars (letterboxed). Every disc I have seen is 16:9. Kinda the same rule as DVD (which only supports 4:3 and 16:9).

[laserfan]

...If you use TSMUXER's blu-ray output it creates the BD file structure. You don't need a blu-ray disc, though. A DVD will work fine.You did say "blu-ray format" out of tsmuxer so I was being dense.

I did NOT know an ordinary DVD was useable! Thanks... :o

Yes in the making (BD Rebuilder), but not close to completion. My programming time has been pretty limited lately.Though you might well not wish to commit yourself in this way, perhaps you should start a "Contribute to future BD Rebuilder" fund. At least it might attract some beer money! :)

[Sharc]

If you are reading it from a Blu-ray disc it has to be one of those resolutions -- meaning it is in reality 16:9 that is encapsulating the other resolution with black bars (letterboxed). Every disc I have seen is 16:9. Kinda the same rule as DVD (which only supports 4:3 and 16:9).
All right, the sar should then always be 1:1 when re-encoding BD originals to AVC/H.264.
For reference I attach the table from the 11/2007 edition of the ITU-T H.264 standard. It indicates the SAR for other standard resolutions (DVD, SVCD, for PAL and NTSC ....) which may be good to know for feeding the x264 encoder with the appropriate --sar parameters when re-encoding other formats to AVC/H.264 - see title of this thread.
(The full H.264 standard can be downloaded from the ITU-T at no charge still).

[jdobbs]

Gotta be careful, though. A lot of the resolutions shown there are illegal... for both DVD and BD.

Interesting that the table doesn't have 720x480/576, 16:9 without overscan... that's probably the most common NTSC/PAL DVD configuration.

[Sharc]

I see.
So you mean *without overscan* the 'generic' values should apply, i.e.
NTSC DVD 4:3 720x480 => sar 8:9
NTSC DVD 16:9 720x480 => sar 32:27
PAL DVD 4:3 720x576 => sar 16:15
PAL DVD 16:9 720x576 => sar 64:45

How the the DVD has actually been authored can in fact only be read from the header of the stream - if it is specified there at all - correct?

[jdobbs]

Yes. But on a DVD the final decision as to whether it is displayed 16:9 or 4:3 is made based upon the IFO information. There are discs out there that are flagged as 4:3 in the stream but are actually 16:9 anamorphic -- and the IFO tells the player to play them back correctly. There's nothing really different about the two streams, just the header information within the streams (and, of course, the aspect of the input).

Also, the BD AVC playback standard is a subset of the H.264 standard -- so there are some things you can do with H.264 that aren't acceptable on BD.

[Sophocles]

Though you might well not wish to commit yourself in this way, perhaps you should start a "Contribute to future BD Rebuilder" fund. At least it might attract some beer money!


You know I'll play and test.:D

I''ve just ordered a couple of Blu RAy discs to play with. I suspect this will give me a reason to upgrade to a decent Quad core Nehalem.

[Sharc]

Yes. But on a DVD the final decision as to whether it is displayed 16:9 or 4:3 is made based upon the IFO information. There are discs out there that are flagged as 4:3 in the stream but are actually 16:9 anamorphic -- and the IFO tells the player to play them back correctly.
This still seems to leave some room for speculation as to whether a 16:9 720x576 PAL DVD (read from the ifo) was mastered 'with horizontal overscan' (sar=16:11) or 'without horizontal overscan' (sar=64:45). Perhaps the discussion is somewhat academic because the two figures match closely (16:11=1.455 vs 64:45=1.422) and in case we decide for the wrong sar the remaining distortion will hardly be noticeable. But still, is there a safe way to pick the true sar (par) from somewhere - except from a "circle test" which may be difficult to do in practice?
The problem seems to be similar to the colorimetry discussion when the colorimetry is not specified in the stream and one has to make an assumption.

[rack04]

Is there anything simialr to TSMUXER that will output to HD DVD format? Just wondering if this process could also apply to HD DVD.

[jdobbs]

There's another program called TSREMUX that also outputs to Blu-ray format -- I think I saw something similar that supports HD-DVD somewhere before, but I can't remember what it was or where. By the way, the source code is available for TSREMUX under GPL, so if someone has a programming background it could probably be modified to do other things.

[rack04]

Comments from any X264 experts out there who could improve the command lines are certainly welcome.

Here are the settings used in the "Standalone-Blue-ray" profile created by sharktooth for MeGUI:

program --pass 2 --bitrate 8000 --stats ".stats" --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --filter -1,-1 --subme 6 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 38000 --qcomp 0.5 --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input" --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd --sar 1:1

[shon3i]

Sharktooth's profile are just fine, only thing i will change is --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 38000 to --vbv-bufsize 50000 --vbv-maxrate 62000, that is max for level 4.1 and HP from Annex A of H264 specification.

[jdobbs]

Those settings are fine if you are writing to BD-RE or BD-R.

But, you can't set the "--vbv-maxrate" that high if you are going to write to DVD-R or DVD+R, because you are limited to configuring for no more than 2X, as shown in my example a good value would be "--vbv-maxrate 17500" that would give you reasonable room to add in audio and subs (as long as you aren't planning on using LPCM).

You also have to adjust the "--bitrate" value based upon whatever will fit... it isn't likely that 8000 will ever fit an entire movie on a DVD (except maybe a short movie on a dual-layer). Like I said, the settings I posted have successfully backed up a lot of BDs to Blu-ray already...

It's optional, but I'd leave "--trellis 1" set as well, it slows the encode down, but you need to take advantage of all you can at DVD bitrates.

I'd recommend you use different command sets for pass 1 and pass 2 as my post showed. The first pass doesn't need a lot of the "slower but higher quality" settings because you are going to rewrite the H.264 file in the second pass anyway -- it will probably save you a few hours of encoding time and not affect quality at all.

[rack04]

Those settings are fine if you are writing to BD-RE or BD-R.

But, you can't set the "--vbv-maxrate" that high if you are going to write to DVD-R or DVD+R, because you are limited to configuring for no more than 2X, as shown in my example a good value would be "--vbv-maxrate 17500" that would give you reasonable room to add in audio and subs (as long as you aren't planning on using LPCM).

You also have to adjust the "--bitrate" value based upon whatever will fit... it isn't likely that 8000 will ever fit an entire movie on a DVD (except maybe a short movie on a dual-layer). Like I said, the settings I posted have successfully backed up a lot of BDs to Blu-ray already...

It's optional, but I'd leave "--trellis 1" set as well, it slows the encode down, but you need to take advantage of all you can at DVD bitrates.

I'd recommend you use different command sets for pass 1 and pass 2 as my post showed. The first pass doesn't need a lot of the "slower but higher quality" settings because you are going to rewrite the H.264 file in the second pass anyway -- it will probably save you a few hours of encoding time and not affect quality at all.

From what I gather the maxrate is set that high because it is the maxrate for blue-ray. As you said this value will have to be adjusted to fit on DVD-5 or DVD-9.

Also, Trellis=1 is disabled when Psy RDO is on.

[cdanddvdpublisher]

There's another program called TSREMUX that also outputs to Blu-ray format -- I think I saw something similar that supports HD-DVD somewhere before, but I can't remember what it was or where. By the way, the source code is available for TSREMUX under GPL, so if someone has a programming background it could probably be modified to do other things.

Little late to this discussion - TSREMUX is quite handy and fairly good with it's Blu-ray output. I don't know if I would recommend for your situation though.

[Wombler]

I've followed this thread with great interest but have noticed that the thrust of it has altered dramatically since the first few posts and in fact it now focuses mainly on the exact opposite of the thread title.

It's confusing for anyone scanning the threads and anyone searching for Blu-ray to DVD would think they'd found the opposite and ignore the result.

Perhaps it would be in order for a mod to change the thread title to 'DVD backup to Blu-Ray and Blu-Ray backup to DVD' or something similar?


Wombler

[m1ckran]

I quite like it as it is.
It's interesting to see the way the thread has developed and I look forward to seeing the results provided in a way that simpletons, like me, can use and perhaps understand.

Michael

[Wombler]

I quite like it as it is.
It's interesting to see the way the thread has developed and I look forward to seeing the results provided in a way that simpletons, like me, can use and perhaps understand.

Michael

I realise this is your thread Michael but irrespective of this I wouldn't disagree with anything you've said there anyway.

I just think it would be better if the people that need this information could find it more easily in the future.

That's why I'd suggested adding to the existing title rather than changing it completely.

There's a lot of interesting stuff in here and it would be a shame to confuse people with the misleading thread title.

Just a suggestion though.


Wombler

[m1ckran]

No problem as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not trying to be territorial. Perhaps you're right.
Is this something a moderator (jdobbs for example) would care to consider?

Michael

[Wombler]

No problem as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not trying to be territorial. Perhaps you're right.
Is this something a moderator (jdobbs for example) would care to consider?

Michael

Thanks Michael and I had no intention of putting you on the defensive as I'm sure you're aware.

TBH I've no problem either way and if the mods are happy then I'm happy.

Just thought it was worth raising though.

The mods here at D9 are exceptionally helpful and as you're the OP then I'm certain they'd have no objection to changing it to whatever you think best.


Wombler

[m1ckran]

My original question has, I think, developed into the most interesting thread on the forum, but that is due to the many contributors who have taken it forward. I claim no credit for that.

I would be perfectly happy if jdobbs would like to alter the thread title to something more appropriate.

The ball, as blutach might say, is in his wicket. :rolleyes:

Michael

[blutach]

You can alter it if you like - just change the top of post 1 in advanced reply mode.

Regards

[jdobbs]

Also, Trellis=1 is disabled when Psy RDO is on. Hmmm... decided to read up on this. Psy RDO is still experimental and it isn't in the version I've been using, but I'll give it a try.

[rack04]

jdobbs, are you not cropping the black bars? Should I not crop because now I have one file that is 1920x800 and one thats 1904x784. Is this going to present and problem when I playback on a blue-ray player. See I don't have one to test these files on.

One other thing. What file size do you try to hit on the second pass to fit on a DVD-5? Don't know how much space is added when muxing with tsMuxeR.

[jdobbs]

It depends what scenario you are speaking of. If you are converting DVD to Blu-ray there may be times you can. But if you are talking about backing up Blu-ray then no, don't crop anything

Your output has to be one of the supported resolutions for Blu-ray -- the ones you mentioned aren't. Typically the resolution is 1920x1080 (by far the most common) or 1280x720.

I usually make an estimate that the muxing is going to take up about 6%. I usually reencode the AC3 to 448Kbs also (from 640Kbs in most cases), since I don't believe you can tell the difference. So the bitrate is going to be whatever will fit in about 4.3G after accounting for audio. You can use AVISYNTH to get the framecount, which will tell you how long the video/audio is.

[rack04]

It depends what scenario you are speaking of. If you are converting DVD to Blu-ray there may be times you can. But if you are talking about backing up Blu-ray then no, don't crop anything

Your output has to be one of the supported resolutions for Blu-ray -- the ones you mentioned aren't. Typically the resolution is 1920x1080 (by far the most common) or 1280x720.

I usually make an estimate that the muxing is going to take up about 6%. I usually reencode the AC3 to 448Kbs also (from 640Kbs in most cases), since I don't believe you can tell the difference. So the bitrate is going to be whatever will fit in about 4.3G after accounting for audio. You can use AVISYNTH to get the framecount, which will tell you how long the video/audio is.

I'm actually trying to compress and convert my HD DVD's to Blue-ray format that will fit on a DVD-5 and is playable on a Blue-ray standalone player.

[~bT~]

I'm actually trying to compress and convert my HD DVD's to Blue-ray format that will fit on a DVD-5 and is playable on a Blue-ray standalone player.

use ripbot264 and use the bluray output format resizing to full-hd or hd..

[Sharktooth]

@shon3i: In the blu-ray FAQ the maximum video bitrate for blu-ray is 40000kbps (however with AVC you'll never need that bitrate).
higher values could produce stuttering or interruptions during playback or even complete unplayability..
62000 is definatly too much. since, by official FAQ, the maximum combined audio and video bitrate is lower than what you suggest to set for video only, it is 54000kbps: http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_dvd_comparison
so my preset is fine (just 2000kbits off in the maxrate) and the new blu-ray preset (available for preview in the New MeGUI x264 presets thread) have been adjusted to 40000 since some time.

[Sharktooth]

also keep in mind blu-ray players are not magic players and they're not even fullly capable of playing level 4.1 streams.

[shon3i]

@shon3i: In the blu-ray FAQ the maximum video bitrate for blu-ray is 40000kbps (however with AVC you'll never need that bitrate).
higher values could produce stuttering or interruptions during playbac or even complete unplayability..
62000 is definatly too much. since, by official FAQ, the maximum combined audio and video bitrate is lower than what you suggest to set for video only, it is 54000kbps: http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_dvd_comparison
so my preset is fine (just 2000kbits off in the maxrate) and the new blu-ray preset (available for preview in the New MeGUI x264 presets thread) have been adjusted to 40000 since some time.
Thanks for explanation and information :) I am currently working on some ref frame calculator based on level and resolution, fps, etc (from wiki and anex a table),So i read many documents about this, and i can't find proper conclusion, aslo i looked into comercial encoders and started to be confused and bit scared because i realy want to make 100% bluray compactible videos. Thanks for profiles.

[Sharktooth]

my presets never failed, feel free to borrow the settings from them (use the newer ones). they should be 100% Scenarist compatible too.

[m1ckran]

New thread title...
Is that OK?

Michael

[Wombler]

The tildes would be a bit confusing for some (not that I'm hard to confuse :)).

You could simplify to 'DVD/Blu-ray - Backup & Conversion' I suppose.

Whatever you think is best though as I don't want to clutter up the thread unnecessarily. :cool:

I'm happy for you to PM me though if you'd like to discuss.


Wombler

[m1ckran]

No problem.
Job done.

I'm still happy for jdobbs to intervene if he thinks it appropriate.

Regards,
Michael

[Sophocles]

jdobbs

I've been experimenting with Bluray backups and I've had some interesting results. I did 10,000 BC and burned it to a single layer DVD-R with excellent 1080P Results. The original was about 17.5 GB which is relatively small for BD movie. It burned and played back just fine through my PC BD drive, but I have no way to testing it on a standalone.

I then searched through my discs to find the largest file that I could fine which was Spider Man 3 at 40 GB. I converted the HD DD sound to standard AC3 DD 5:1 448 kbps to reduce audio sizes and then once again set it to a single type5. It came in slightly oversized 4.6 GHz and there was some blocking in the dark areas of the opening credits which have a lot of imagery.

I didn't see any real problems with the movie overall but I didn't burn it either. Using imgburn I converted it to an ISO which converts it to UDF file and mounted it with Daemon tools for testing. It's obvious that this movie shouldn't be converted for burning to a single layer disc so tonight will resize it and set it for a dual layer burn. The 10,000 BC took less than 7 hours to complete and Spider man took almost exactly 10.5 hours. All were set for two pass.

I realize this might be a bit off topic but it was our earlier discussion that got me going on this so thanks. I can't wait until you develop your own system. HLG

[jdobbs]

I'm finding that ~2 hour movies are good on a single layer, but when it gets significantly more than that I burn it to dual layer. I especially noticed it with "Wyatt Earp" which is exceptionally long. In most scenes it looked good, but the dark scenes would show blockiness on a single layer disc. On dual-layer, though, it is indistinguishable from the original.

The other option is to use 1280x720 -- which pretty much never needs dual layer.

I've been burning a lot of these -- and it is very exciting to watch them on my blu-ray player at such a beautiful resolution.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the size of the original... it's the overall length in time that really makes a difference. You'll even find that some of the originals are MPEG-2, which isn't nearly as efficient as AVC.

[frank]

Originmal posted by jdobbs:
But, you can't set the "--vbv-maxrate" that high if you are going to write to DVD-R or DVD+R, because you are limited to configuring for no more than 2X, as shown in my example a good value would be "--vbv-maxrate 17500" that would give you reasonable room to add in audio and subs (as long as you aren't planning on using LPCM).RIGHT!!!

But my experience for BR-9 (DVD-9) after a lot of tests is:
Resolution: 1280x720p
VBV buffer size = 15000
VBV Maximum Bitrate = 15000

Then the vbv can hold the content for 0.5 sec when the bitrate is exceeding the maximum. You'll never get stuttering.

[Sophocles]

I'm finding that ~2 hour movies are good on a single layer, but when it gets significantly more than that I burn it to dual layer

I should have mentioned that Spider man 3 has a 2:20 run time. I realize that physical size is not a deciding factor to the actual number of frames across the movie, but I figured that it had something to do with the more than 3 hours that it took to encode than the previous encode which was 37 minutes longer. I probably could have cropped a little off the beginning and ending but I have a fetish and like to keep them.

I'll look at making a few adjustments vbv buffer size and maxrate a bit and see what turns up but another fetish is the need to try and keep 1080P if possible.

Frank

Thanks for the info.

I suspect that most movies will do find with 1080P, but if I get some with really long run times I will consider both jdobbs and your suggestions.

[frank]

I suspect that most movies will do fine with 1080P...Do you know the resolution of your device??
Most notebooks and PC screens and a lot of TVs have no FULL-HD (1920x1080) panels!

For 1920x1080:
BD9/BD5 discs must be spun at high speed, equivalent to a 3× DVD drive speed or greater to get the high user data rate 33.24 Mbps.
Then you have to set the vbv MaxBitrate to ~38000.

AFAIK the PS3 has such noisy drives (games on data discs...) but no silent dvd pc drive.

[jdobbs]

When you're writing to DVD-R (BD-5/BD-9) you have to follow the AVCHD specifications -- and that means you can't assume anything greater than 2X spin speed. I also think that is where the 3 B-Frame limit came from too, but I'd have to check. With AVC 17,500 Kbs is plenty of bitrate for 1920x1080. As Frank mentioned, 15000 would probably be just as good...

[Sophocles]

Do you know the resolution of your device??

Yes, I have a samsung 24 inch S-PVA panel monitor connected by DVI-D dual link cable and default set to 1920 by 1200, (soon to be replaced by either the 27 inch or a 30 inch if I find one that I like). BTW, I prefer Samsung's S-PVA panels to Dells S-IPS panels for video playback.


My drive is a Lite-ON BD player which has 4X BD play speed and 12X DVD-Rom speed. My graphics card is an ATI HD 3870. My system has 4 gigabytes of corsair RAM in a 2 X 2 GB configuration, and my Processor is an E8400 overclocked to 3.8 GHz. It goes on like that any of 6 systems are adequate. I have vbv Maxbitrate still sitting at 30,000 but I've measured the quality of the results by running it through Procoder 3 and it lists them as 1080P. I haven't heard that it needs to be set to as high as 38,000 but I'll check into it.

[Khauron]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but:
What about Blue-Ray backup to DVD-5 / DVD-9? Can current version of DVD-RB handle it?

[jdobbs]

...I have vbv Maxbitrate still sitting at 30,000...As I mentioned, I wouldn't do that if you are ever planning on playing these back with a standalone (on BD-9/BD-5).

[jdobbs]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but:
What about Blue-Ray backup to DVD-5 / DVD-9? Can current version of DVD-RB handle it?No. DVD-RB only reads and reproduces DVDs. Blu-ray is an entirely different format. What has been discussed as a possibliity is the back of DVD to Blu-ray so AVC can be used to keep 100% of the quality. BD-Rebuilder (a completely different project) will provide that capability (assuming it ever gets completed).

[Sophocles]

As I mentioned, I wouldn't do that if you are ever planning on playing these back with a standalone (on BD-9/BD-5).

jdobbs

I doubt that I will ever purchase a standalone since I have an HTPC which I am also in the progress of updating, but if you suggest a maxbitrate of 15,000 then your word has always been good with me, and since Frank also recommends it I will make the changes to 17,500 since my next encode is still waiting for me to press start. I have got to get a portable hard drive to transfer my ripped files between computers. Hmm! Perhaps I can steal my wife's:P

[jdobbs]

I think at some point everyone will toss out their DVD players and replace them with Blu-ray. The cost will eventually drop to some ridculously low level (like DVD) and it just makes playback easier... that's why I always recommend using settings that will go with that flow. That way people won't have to reencode everything all over again in a year or two.

Of course, it's just my opinion -- and opinions are like anuses. Everybody has one, and nobody cares about anybody elses. :D

BTW -- good to see you posting regularly on Doom9 again.

[Sophocles]

I think at some point everyone will toss out their DVD players and replace them with Blu-ray. The cost will eventually drop to some ridculously low level (like DVD) and it just makes playback easier... that's why I always recommend using settings that will go with that flow. That way people won't have to reencode everything all over again in a year or two.


I agree prices have to fall on hardware soon or BD is going to face a Windows Vista moment. I still shop for standard DVD because for many types of entertainment such as "A Few Good Men," HD adds little to the overall experience. Where I enjoy HD is in movies that detail rich backgrounds such as scifis and historical films.


BTW -- good to see you posting regularly on Doom9 again.

Thanks, I enjoy Doom9 and hope to make it my second home.:D

[laserfan]

...you have to set the file name and bitrate before running (first two lines). The bitrate is calculated based upon the size (in frames) of the input...

@SET IN_TITLE=FILETITLE
@SET IN_BITRATE=5240
TIME /T
"E:\X264\x264.exe" "%IN_TITLE%.AVS" --bitrate %IN_BITRATE% --level 4.1 --sar 1:1
--aud --vbv-bufsize 14745 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --filter 0,0 --bframes 3 --direct auto
--subme 2 --analyse none --me dia --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr
--no-ssim --stats "stats2.log" --pass 1 --output NUL
TIME /T
"E:\X264\x264.exe" "%IN_TITLE%.AVS" --bitrate %IN_BITRATE% --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 --aud
--vbv-bufsize 14745 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --filter 0,0 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3
--b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --subme 6 --trellis 1 --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8
--8x8dct --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim
--stats "stats2.log" --pass 2 --output "%IN_TITLE%.264"
TIME /T
PAUSE

I've tried to correlate the example above (SET IN_BITRATE=5240) to any movie-length no. of frames and must not understand the math. Can jdobbs or anyone tell me how to select a bitrate for a movie's framecount, that correlates with a DVD-5 or DVD-9? :o

[jdobbs]

You just work from the run time of the movie.

For example let's say you have a movie that has a run time of 2:10:14. That would be 7814 seconds. Now you have to determine the output size: a DVD+R (Dual Layer) holds 8,547,991,552 bytes or 68,383,932,416 bits. Divide that by the number of seconds and it means that, without any other considerations, you have a total of 8,751,463 bits per second (about 8751Kbs). If you assume a 6% overhead you will come to about 8400Kbs. Being the careful type I usually even take a little more off (because it takes lots of hours to encode, I don't want to oversize and have to do it twice). So let's round it down to 8200Kbs.

Now subtract the audio track. Let's say you are keeping one of the 640Kbs AC3 tracks... 8200 - 640 = 7560.

So you'd replace the 5240 with 7560 for that movie.

[laserfan]

You just work from the run time of the movie.

For example let's say you have a movie that has a run time of 2:10:14. That would be 7814 seconds. Now you have to determine the output size: a DVD+R (Dual Layer) holds 8,547,991,552 bytes or 68,383,932,416 bits. Divide that by the number of seconds and it means that, without any other considerations, you have a total of 8,751,463 bits per second (about 8751Kbs). If you assume a 6% overhead you will come to about 8400Kbs. Being the careful type I usually even take a little more off (because it takes lots of hours to encode, I don't want to oversize and have to do it twice). So let's round it down to 8200Kbs.

Now subtract the audio track. Let's say you are keeping one of the 640Kbs AC3 tracks... 8200 - 640 = 7560.

So you'd replace the 5240 with 7560 for that movie.Thanks very much jdobbs, for a thorough explanation even *I* can understand!!! :)

I had managed to completely confuse myself because I was using a hand calculator that erred-out on these large numbers! :scared:

:thanks:

[Sharc]

Has anyone tried yet to play a x264 AVC re-encoded DVD at its native resolution (720x480) on a Blue-ray standalone?
I know the resolution is not Blue-ray compliant, but upscaling does not add true details, it just takes much more time for encoding.

[jdobbs]

Actually 720x480 is blu-ray compliant. The only secret to that one is making sure you encode it with the right SAR. I assume you mean doing a MOVIE-ONLY disc with the blu-ray disc/file format.

[Sharc]

Yes, I am thinking of Movie-only "transparent" DVD backups.
I am in PAL country, so the resolution is actually 720x576, anamorphic 16:9, SAR 16:11, encoding with x264, authoring with tsmuxer. So you think this format should be playable on a standalon BD player (I don't have one yet to try myself ..... )?
With all the progress made recently, x264 with 1-pass CRF becomes more and more speedwise attractive, even on my outdated single-core PC. I re-encoded the 3-hours Wyatt Earp in 8 hours with CRF=16, original resolution, 2 language tracks, fitting easily on a DVD5, excellent quality.

[jdobbs]

I did that one too, but I did it in two-pass mode with x264. It is one of the few Blu-ray to DVD-5 ones that I decided to redo in DVD-9. Actually 99% of the movie looked great, but there was some blocking in dark scenes. I wonder if it would look better with CRF? I may give it a try.

I've done some 720x480 encodes in testing and they play back on my Sony standalone. I haven't done any recently. I'll run a couple through just as a comparison to MPEG-2 in DVD Format. I think an exceptionally long movie would be a good test case (like maybe Wyatt Earp or Gladiator).

[Wombler]

I think an exceptionally long movie would be a good test case (like maybe Wyatt Earp or Gladiator).

How about 'Saving Private Ryan'?

This was always a stern test for any of the DVD re-encoders so I'd assume the Blu-Ray to DVD would be equally challenging.


Wombler

[jdobbs]

Good idea.

[tyee]

JDobbs
Thanks for all the info you've provided here. I have been backing up my BRs to external USB Hard Drive and playing on the PS3 that way using CRF=20 one pass. I'm getting encode times of REAL TIME with x264 with my Q6600 quad core. However my command line is nowhere as full as the one you gave, and of course I cannot predict the final file size. I looks like your using constant bitrate then, does not fast motion cause problems?

I'm interested in using your command lines to try burning to DVD5 but have a question, what version of x264 do you use currently and do you keep upgrading it every time a new version comes out. What site do you get it from?

From what I gather, MANY versions are available and it is very confusing which one to use unless you follow the threads everyday.
Like here --> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=130364

[Wombler]

Good idea.

Apologies JD.

Remarkably 'Saving Private Ryan' hasn't been released on Blu-ray and I'd assumed it was bound to be available.

Apparently it was originally released by one of the HD-DVD supporting studios and they haven't got their act together yet re a Blu-ray release.

Oh well. :rolleyes:


Wombler

[G_M_C]

I've also been backing up BR's to DVD9's. For a rule of thumb I stick to approx. 1 1/2 ~ 1 3/4 hours per DVD9 for a 1080p, simply because i want to keep as much detail as possible while retaining a resonable amount of cuts. Most movies end up in 2 parts (either DVD9 or DVD5, or a mix of those).

In my experiance it works best to keep good details, because you can use a good enough bitrate for video. I also try to use a DTS 1,5 mbps audio if possible; Sometimes it's the core-DTS track, and sometimes I make the DTS-track with EAC3To + DTS-encoder. I also mux in 1 subtitle-track; But i try to get @ 10000 kbps for 1080p video approx, depending on the source offcourse (movement, scenecuts etc.).

For encoding i use MeGUI atm, and "make my .AVS-script myself / by hand". I use the last patched x264 build (with all the psy-additions and the new b-frame decisions). I'll post my commandline tonight if you want.

EDIT:
I make these DVD's for playing on my standalone Panasonic DPM-BD30, and they play without issues. Muxed to Blu-ray structure thru tsMuxeR 1.84(b), burned both the BDMV & CERTIFICATE folders with IMGBurn.

[jdobbs]

I looks like your using constant bitrate then, does not fast motion cause problems? No... the command line I gave here uses VBR, but it does it in two passes rather than one (as would be true with CRF). When you've made a decision to fit HD on a DVD-5 or DVD-9 it's just better to use all the tools at your disposal. While I like CRF very much, two pass encoding is the best way to ensure you are getting the best out of your encode (as long as you have time to do so).
From what I gather, MANY versions are available and it is very confusing which one to use unless you follow the threads everyday. Yes they get released all the time. I used r777 for a long time. I recently started using r928. I go to www.x264.nl every now and then to see what's new. It can be a little confusing with all the changes -- but it's also good to know that the program is being so actively worked. I haven't starting using psyRDO yet, but it appears it may soon become the standard approach.

[G_M_C]

This is the commandline I use / MeGUI makes;

program --pass 2 --bitrate 10000 --stats ".stats" --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --ref 4 --mixed-refs --no-fast-pskip --bframes 3 --b-pyramid --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --subme 6 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --ipratio 1.3 --pbratio 1.2 --vbv-bufsize 22000 --vbv-maxrate 16000 --qcomp 0.5 --scenecut 32 --me umh --merange 24 --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input" --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd --sar 1:1 --b-adapt 2 --psy-rd 1.0

[Sharc]

Apologies JD.

Remarkably 'Saving Private Ryan' hasn't been released on Blu-ray and I'd assumed it was bound to be available.


Even the DVD version of SPR could be worth a test for comparison with an mpeg-2 backup on a DVD5.
I just wonder which version is compatible for playback on a standalone BD player:
Assuming original DVD PAL, 720x576, anamorphic, active picture 720x416
a) no crop, no resize => encode x264, sar 16:11
b) crop 720x416, no resize => encode x264, sar 16:11
c) crop 720x416, resize 720x576 => encode x264, sar 255:129

I would assume a) and c) should be ok because the 720x576 is BD compliant
I doubt with b) because 720x416 is not a BD compliant resolution.
Any experience?

[m1482]

The easiest way right now is to use the MOBILE encoding option with the "Experimental AVCHD, 1280x720" template. It will create a .TS file as output. Then just select that .TS from within TSREMUX (search DOOM9 for the TSREMUX thread) and tell it to output to Blu-ray format. Burn the contents of the output folder to DVD-R using ImgBurn in UDF 2.5 mode.

You may want to adjust the video bitrate depending on the movie size.

jdobbs:

When I burn my DVD-R using the following procedure (Blu-Ray structure created with TsRemux), when I play it back using a PS3 I don't have chapters function, only FF or Rew. However if I use the AVCHD created with Nero 8 it works correctly.
Any ideas how to make it work with your procedure?

[jdobbs]

That's a function of the muxing... try using TSMUXER instead (that's the one I use most often). By default it puts a chapter mark at each 5 minutes. You can also adjust it.

[jdobbs]

How about 'Saving Private Ryan'?

This was always a stern test for any of the DVD re-encoders so I'd assume the Blu-Ray to DVD would be equally challenging.


WomblerI'm encoding SPR right now from DVD to BD-5 format keeping the 720x480 resolution. I'll let you know how it looks when completed. I also plan to do a 1280x720 version for comparison.

[Sharc]

I'm encoding SPR right now from DVD to BD-5 format keeping the 720x480 resolution.
Means you don't crop the black borders, you leave them untouched in order to comply with the BD standard (720x480)?

[jdobbs]

I leave them untouched. Very, very few discs are 704x480 -- in fact I'm not sure I've ever seen a commercial one. They almost all are 720x480 (for NTSC). IMHO the smart strategy is to not modify their original configuration. Here are the legal formats for blu-ray:

1920 x 1080
1440 x 1080 (AVC/VC-1 only)
1280 x 720
720 x 480
720 x 576

[Sharc]

For the exceptional 704x480 / 704x576 discs (eg "The Jacket" if I remember correctly) one should probably add vertical borders then, or resize horizontally to 720 and set the SAR accordingly.
I have also made an example with cropping and resizing the active picture to 720 x 576, and set the sar to 255:129 in that case. The resizing of course doesn't add real details, it rather blows up the file size (CRF encoding) and takes longer to encode.

[Wombler]

I'm encoding SPR right now from DVD to BD-5 format keeping the 720x480 resolution. I'll let you know how it looks when completed. I also plan to do a 1280x720 version for comparison.

Ahh good.

So I didn't lead you entirely astray then. :)

It'll be very interesting though to hear your results.


Wombler

[jdobbs]

The 720x480 encode went well, it took much less time of course than a BD movie, and the playback looks identical to the original.

[tyee]

jdobbs
I tried your 2pass bat file last night and it came out great. Boy I sure didn't have much room for error, I had about 23 MB left to spare after muxing in the 448kbps audio!

Pass 1 took about 1.5hrs (36fps) Pass 2 took about 3.5 hrs (17fps).

I then decided to try one pass CRF=23 and it took about 2 hrs at 27fps. Comparing them just now on my Dell 30", I can't really see a difference, and the one pass was about 700MB smaller!

I noticed in the early discussion in this thread that you tried CRF too but now use 2pass, is this correct? How come the switch? I think I'm going to go with one pass CRF. I like the speed!

[Sharc]

With my outdated and slow single core system 1-pass CRF has become my choice for x264 "overnight encodes". There is of course the file size issue with 1-pass. However, using CRF16 for DVD backups (in original resolution) of up to 3 hours duration seem to fit on a DVD5 including 2 original AC3 soundtracks + subtitles. With CRF16 I would say the backup is indistinguishable from the original. CRF18 is almost equally good, if one wants to be on the very safe side with the file size. I have noticed little blurring/softening/loss of details in dark scenes in a direct frame-by-frame comparison with the original - but hardly noticeable when watching the movie.

[jdobbs]

jdobbs
I tried your 2pass bat file last night and it came out great. Boy I sure didn't have much room for error, I had about 23 MB left to spare after muxing in the 448kbps audio!

Pass 1 took about 1.5hrs (36fps) Pass 2 took about 3.5 hrs (17fps).

I then decided to try one pass CRF=23 and it took about 2 hrs at 27fps. Comparing them just now on my Dell 30", I can't really see a difference, and the one pass was about 700MB smaller!

I noticed in the early discussion in this thread that you tried CRF too but now use 2pass, is this correct? How come the switch? I think I'm going to go with one pass CRF. I like the speed! I've used CRF, and it looks good. But I noticed some occasional blocking (especially in dark scenes) that went away when I used 2 pass. The fact is that two pass will always do better. But when you can't see it, it doesn't mean a thing. :)

What kind of processor are you using. 1.5 and 3.5 are pretty good times with the settings I proposed (they are meant for extremely high quality on pass-2).

[tyee]

I have a Q6600 2.4GHz o/c to 3GHz, not too bad.

[jdobbs]

My Quad-Core Phenom 9500 is lame compared to your Q6600. How long was the movie?

[Wombler]

The 720x480 encode went well, it took much less time of course than a BD movie, and the playback looks identical to the original.

Excellent.

If you want the ultimate test though try Rammstein's 'Volkerball' DVD.

I tried this one with various encoders and couldn't even get what I'd regard as passable results no matter what settings I played with.

I reckon this one's impossible with normal DVD codecs.


Wombler

[G_M_C]

Excellent.

If you want the ultimate test though try Rammstein's 'Volkerball' DVD.

I tried this one with various encoders and couldn't even get what I'd regard as passable results no matter what settings I played with.

I reckon this one's impossible with normal DVD codecs.


Wombler

(Re)Encoding live music DVD's is often difficult. Often it is best to set higher number of keyframe-interval and instead use a lower/more sensitive scenechange-detection. If you get that right, then i-frames will be placed based more on scene-change (flashing lights for instance) in stead of just on a regular x-frame basis; But you'll still need a higher bitrate than normal, because there is much more movement / scene-changes compared to movies.

BUT (there is allways a but isn't there) the BR-specs describe a keyframe-interval of max 1 second (so keyframe-interval == framerate, rounded off). So you can only try to lower the --scenecut parameter of x264 (considerably).

Try these options (for use with this build: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1172251#post1172251. Use that one, some of the newer ones dont work right);

--level 4.1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --ref 4 --mixed-refs --no-fast-pskip --bframes 3 --b-pyramid --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --subme 6 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --ipratio 1.3 --pbratio 1.2 --vbv-bufsize 22000 --vbv-maxrate 16000 --qcomp 0.5 --scenecut << set lower, maybe even down to 16 or 20 >> --me umh --merange 24 --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd --sar 1:1 --b-adapt 2 --psy-rd 1.0

[Wombler]

Thanks for that G_M_C but I'm afraid I haven't dabbled with x.264 yet as I haven't yet bought a Blu-ray player.

Jdobbs may find this useful ATM but I'd also like to start playing around with this stuff myself at some stage.

If you don't mind me asking, are you using a GUI with x.264 and if so, which one?


Wombler

[G_M_C]

[...]
If you don't mind me asking, are you using a GUI with x.264 and if so, which one?


Wombler

Atm I use Megui, and configure x264 from there. You can also set the more " expirimental" options in the custom commandline-field of Megui. Decrypting, creating AVS-scripts etc. i do myself by AvsP or by hand if it's only opening.

Actually, coming back to (re)encoding "very active" live music video's/concert recordings; The fact that you need more bitrate than average, and could try to tweak the scene-changesettings, should count for all formats / codecs.

[Wombler]

Actually, coming back to (re)encoding "very active" live music video's/concert recordings; The fact that you need more bitrate than average, and could try to tweak the scene-changesettings, should count for all formats / codecs.

Absolutely but I think that the original disc in this particular case is already so highly optimised that there's not enough scope to compress to DVD5 within the constraints of normal DVD codecs.

Or in other words in this extreme case adjusting the settings will make some improvement but nothing like enough to produce even a barely adequate DVD5 version.

That's why I thought it would be a good test for x264 as out of hundreds of DVDs I've never experienced anything that's even as remotely severe a test as this particular disc.


Wombler

[G_M_C]

Absolutely but I think that the original disc in this particular case is already so highly optimised that there's not enough scope to compress to DVD5 within the constraints of normal DVD codecs.

Or in other words in this extreme case adjusting the settings will make some improvement but nothing like enough to produce even a barely adequate DVD5 version.

That's why I thought it would be a good test for x264 as out of hundreds of DVDs I've never experienced anything that's even as remotely severe a test as this particular disc.


Wombler

I dont have that DVD, and i dont know if jdobbs has it. So i say Try it ! It's not that much different from other (re)encoding stuff. Just decrypt the DVD, run it through DGIndex, make an AVS with MPEG2Source() and open that in Megui.

The only thing you need to look at is that you have the right build of x264 for use with the commandline i gave. Megui has a bitratecalculator and can mux to mkv, so you should be able to work out how it works quite easily :)

After finishing you can try to compare with the original on you PC !

[Sophocles]

I’ve been backing Blu-Ray to type 5 and 9 DVD-/+R discs with no issue as of yet. I don’t use a home BD player but then I don’t expect to own one either since I prefer using an HTPC for media playback. Then I got into converting HD DVD to BD compatible type single and dual layer and that also worked like a charm in my BD player. After having done several successful encodes I decided to try the HD DVD of the new version of King Kong which is a 3 hour and 7 minute movie. Because of its 3 hour plus length I naturally decided to shoot for a dual layer disc.

The final result came in at 7.95 Gigabytes. I began playing it and the video quality was excellent and so was the sound, or so I thought. The sound and video both were excellent to about half way through the movie and then the audio turned into a reverberating metallic sounding noise. Since HD DVD’s unlike all the BD movies I’ve seen are recorded to two main files labeled “feature 1 and feature 2” my best guess is that for some reason the second feature file is not muxing properly. Any ideas?

[Sharc]

Have you tried to remux the original sound track(s)? It may be safer than transcoding the format.

[Sophocles]

Have you tried to remux the original sound track(s)? It may be safer than transcoding the format.

I think I left the original 448 KHz track in tact but now you've got me thinking that I might have inadvertently chosen to transcode. I have a new L GGW-H20L multi drive coming in today so after I move HD DVD and Lite-On BD drive to another computer I'll be able to experiment a little more often. King Kong took twice as long as any other movie I've attempted (16 hours).

[jdobbs]

Any chance it was True-HD or one of the other extended formats? Sometimes you have to tell TSMUXER to remove the extended part. I know when I try to play them back without down-converting I get terrible squealing on my PC.

[Sophocles]

I just went back and reviewed the soundtrack. It has a single 448 kbps Dolby Digital plus sound track for each of three languages.

The funny thing is that the first 60 to 70 minutes of the encodes playback audio is perfect, and then out of the blue it goes sour with a metallic buzzing sound. This is why I thought that perhaps the second feature file failed to mux properly. The video was perfect all the way through. I'm setting up a couple of rigs just for BD encoding this weekend. One to encode HD DVD to BD and another for BD to BD only. Then I'll give it another try since the 16 hours won't tie things up. LOL

[laserfan]

Is there any magic to using DL DVD+R discs with the BR structure i.e. any "layer break" issues to deal with?

[jdobbs]

I haven't had any "issues" -- but sometimes you see the pause when it hits the layer break.

[tyee]

My Quad-Core Phenom 9500 is lame compared to your Q6600. How long was the movie?

Sorry for the late reply, I was on holidays. I believe the movie was 2hr. 20min. The big robot movie!

BTW, what brand of DL discs would you recommend? I see that there are few DVD-R DL but quite a few DVD+R DL?

[jdobbs]

I find Verbatim to be a good disc. I use the inkjet printable DVD+R DL.

[G_M_C]

I haven't had any "issues" -- but sometimes you see the pause when it hits the layer break.

Depends on the buffer in the player i think. Havent had pause with my BR-player (Panasonic db30), playing DIY BD9's (DVD9 with Bluray-structure, made by tsMuxeR).

[jdobbs]

What value do you use for "--keyint", anything?

EDIT: Never mind. I see from the previous page that you use "--keyint 24". Is there a blu-ray limit/suggestion on the keyint value? I've been using the default (250) and it works -- but I wonder if it is the reason for the pause at layer break.

[G_M_C]

What value do you use for "--keyint", anything?

EDIT: Never mind. I see from the previous page that you use "--keyint 24". Is there a blu-ray limit/suggestion on the keyint value? I've been using the default (250) and it works -- but I wonder if it is the reason for the pause at layer break.

Just had a disscusion about that elswhere on the board; Bluray specs say that a GOP can be max 1 sec long. Based on that I set my --keyint equal to the framerate, rounded off.

See also this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=140741

My posting (and further discussion about --keyint): http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1178039#post1178039

[jdobbs]

Good to know. Thanks. Interestingly my Sony BDP-S301 Player doesn't seem to have a problem with large GOPs. I'll modify my recommended command line in this thread to include the limited keyint.

Do you know if there is a summary of blu-ray constaints online anywhere?

Also, do you know if there is a site or document that outlines the formats for .mpls and .clpi files anywhere online? I've been dumping them out and have gathered some info -- but it is really tedious.

[G_M_C]

Good to know. Thanks. Interestingly my Sony BDP-S301 Player doesn't seem to have a problem with large GOPs. I'll modify my recommended command line in this thread to include the limited keyint.

Do you know if there is a summary of blu-ray constaints online anywhere?

Also, do you know if there is a site or document that outlines the formats for .mpls and .clpi files anywhere online? I've been dumping them out and have gathered some info -- but it is really tedious.

No i have not seen a site where all the required info can be found, only bits and pieces here (on this forum) and there ; And I think there are people on this board that might be able help you further. The only thing i know of are the whitepapers on the Blu-ray Disc Association site.

[laserfan]

Do you know if there is a summary of blu-ray constaints online anywhere?Not sure how all of these translate to the x264 command line, but Sharktooth has published a BR standalone profile for MeGUI over here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=139765) which looks like this:

<Name>Standalone-Blu-ray</Name>
<Settings>
<EncodingMode>4</EncodingMode>
<BitrateQuantizer>8000</BitrateQuantizer>
<KeyframeInterval>24</KeyframeInterval>
<NbBframes>3</NbBframes>
<MinQuantizer>10</MinQuantizer>
<MaxQuantizer>51</MaxQuantizer>
<Turbo>true</Turbo>
<V4MV>false</V4MV>
<QPel>false</QPel>
<Trellis>false</Trellis>
<CreditsQuantizer>40</CreditsQuantizer>
<Logfile>.stats</Logfile>
<CustomEncoderOptions>--mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd --sar 1:1</CustomEncoderOptions>
<FourCC>1</FourCC>
<MaxNumberOfPasses>3</MaxNumberOfPasses>
<NbThreads>0</NbThreads>
<QuantizerCRF>8000</QuantizerCRF>
<EncodeInterlaced>false</EncodeInterlaced>
<NoDCTDecimate>false</NoDCTDecimate>
<PSNRCalculation>false</PSNRCalculation>
<noFastPSkip>false</noFastPSkip>
<NoiseReduction>0</NoiseReduction>
<MixedRefs>true</MixedRefs>
<X264Trellis>2</X264Trellis>
<NbRefFrames>3</NbRefFrames>
<AlphaDeblock>-1</AlphaDeblock>
<BetaDeblock>-1</BetaDeblock>
<SubPelRefinement>5</SubPelRefinement>
<MaxQuantDelta>4</MaxQuantDelta>
<TempQuantBlur>0</TempQuantBlur>
<BframePredictionMode>3</BframePredictionMode>
<VBVBufferSize>30000</VBVBufferSize>
<VBVMaxBitrate>40000</VBVMaxBitrate>
<METype>2</METype>
<MERange>16</MERange>
<MinGOPSize>2</MinGOPSize>
<Profile>2</Profile>
<Level>11</Level>
<IPFactor>1.1</IPFactor>
<PBFactor>1.1</PBFactor>
<ChromaQPOffset>0</ChromaQPOffset>
<VBVInitialBuffer>0.9</VBVInitialBuffer>
<BitrateVariance>1.0</BitrateVariance>
<QuantCompression>0.5</QuantCompression>
<TempComplexityBlur>20</TempComplexityBlur>
<TempQuanBlurCC>0.5</TempQuanBlurCC>
<SCDSensitivity>40</SCDSensitivity>
<BframeBias>0</BframeBias>
<Deblock>true</Deblock>
<Cabac>true</Cabac>
<WeightedBPrediction>true</WeightedBPrediction>
<AdaptiveBFrames>true</AdaptiveBFrames>
<BFramePyramid>false</BFramePyramid>
<BRDO>true</BRDO>
<biME>true</biME>
<ChromaME>true</ChromaME>
<P8x8mv>true</P8x8mv>
<B8x8mv>true</B8x8mv>
<I4x4mv>true</I4x4mv>
<I8x8mv>true</I8x8mv>
<P4x4mv>false</P4x4mv>
<AdaptiveDCT>true</AdaptiveDCT>
<SSIMCalculation>false</SSIMCalculation>
<Lossless>false</Lossless>
<QuantizerMatrix>Flat (none)</QuantizerMatrix>
<QuantizerMatrixType>0</QuantizerMatrixType>
<DeadZoneInter>21</DeadZoneInter>
<DeadZoneIntra>11</DeadZoneIntra>
<AQmode>2</AQmode>
<AQstrength>1.0</AQstrength>


Not sure if this is "be-all, end-all" info but at least it corroborates the KeyInt of 24.

BTW I did my first BU today using your BAT file and it all worked--pretty amazing to see, though it did take my P4 fully 40 hours to complete! :eek:

I'm underwhelmed by the result, a little blocky, but I did a 2h8m movie for DVD+5 and wasn't expecting too much from the 4000kbps bitrate used. Next time I'll try a DL, or maybe downsize to 720p.

[jdobbs]

If you're underwhelmed -- then something is wrong. A 2h8m movie should be very easy for x264 to encode for DVD-5. None of the ones I've done that size have any blocks at all. I'm talking "perfect". Are you sure the original wasn't blocky? Did you do two passes?

Don't know if I would have the patience for 40 hours. I'm getting down to about 8 hours now for a two pass encode now -- and that is barely tolerable.

Also -- watch out for the maximum bitrate in the profile you posted if you're writing to DVD-5 or 9, the maximum bitrate is too high for those.