Blu-Ray~DVD Backup & Conversion

[mech61]

Are we talking blu-ray dvdr? cause ive only seen 25/50 gb discs which arent cheap.

[Wombler]

They're talking about re-encoding blu-ray to fit onto either single or dual layer DVD recordable.

If you read the rest of the thread all will become clear.


Wombler

[jdobbs]

Ive ordered my player a Panasonic DMP-BD35 , my burner is ready to install LG GGW-H20N/L , what size discs are we going to need. My experience so far is that for movie-only and disc without a huge amount of extras you can use a single layer DVD+-R. For those with extended content or a very long movie you may need dual layer to keep pristine quality.

I'm also looking at an option to split a disc into two BD-5s, one with extras and the other containing the feature. It probably won't be in the beta, but possibly later.

I'm amazed at how much SD content is on these discs... that part really compresses easily with AVC. Originally I was using total content (in hours) as a quide for whether to go BD-5 or BD-9 -- but with all this 720x480 content it just isn't a reliable determiner.

I have seen no need to bring the resolution down to 1280x720 on any of them as yet.

Development status: Just ran into a bug that is taking me down a lot of rabbit holes and I making me rethink one of my methods... not a big deal, but time-consuming. When I get past this one I may be able to post. The "paying job" has been eating into my development seriously...

[G_M_C]

[...]
The "paying job" has been eating into my development seriously...

Yep, but the paying job is more important, cause you have to eat ;)

Good to see that you're making good progress. Don't hasten things along, makeing it a "good one" is more important. We'll have patience untill then :)

[nwg]

I am amazed what I can fit on a single layer DVD when reencoding at 720p. I managed to get 32GB (original video and AC3 5.1) down to 4.36GB. It is hard to actually tell the difference with the original BD disc. The big plus for me is the disc can then play in my BD player as a AVCHD. The down side is the average disc takes 35 hours with my pc setup (1st pass 5-6fps, 2nd pass 1.5-2fps)

I would like to keep 1080p res and do a double layer disc but my pc spec does it at 0.5fps speed.

I have no intention in doing a BDR until they are a lot cheaper (plus the burner) and can do just a 1:1 copy. In the UK a single layer BDR is up to £10 and a double layer is up to £25. A BD burner (LG) is £160. I opted for the LG BD ROM drive at £60.

[laserfan]

I am amazed what I can fit on a single layer DVD when reencoding at 720p.I used the .bat file earlier in this thread to convert a longish actioner (live free or die hard) to 1080p DVD-5, and on my 1080p 10-foot screen I found absolutely no artifacts of any kind! I was amazed--no pixelation or blocking or posterization or jerkiness anywhere. Stunningly perfect. One almost has to ask: why do we need the blue-laser technology at all when such incredible PQ is available with the 264 codec.

[nashcity]

It's great to hear your plans for BD Rebuilder Jdobbs. Looking forward to checking it out.

DVD Rebuilder helped me create a library a high quality dvds. But I have since moved to a "digital" library using the PS3 as an interface and a network drive to hold all my video files. Since tsmuxer has an option for M2TS output, would I be correct in assuming that the output from BD Rebuilder could be used to create a "digital" copy for a PS3 or HTPC setup? Maybe it would be as simple as using the M2TS file in the STREAM folder of the BD structure?

[rack04]

jdobbs,

What is your experience with 1920x1080 on a DVD-5? Are all your encodes resized to 1280x720?

[Adub]

I have seen no need to bring the resolution down to 1280x720 on any of them as yet.

It helps to read.

[rack04]

It helps to read.

:thanks: I missed that.

[moviefan]

I used the .bat file earlier in this thread to convert a longish actioner (live free or die hard) to 1080p DVD-5, and on my 1080p 10-foot screen I found absolutely no artifacts of any kind! I was amazed--no pixelation or blocking or posterization or jerkiness anywhere.

What settings do you use for x264? I really wonder about your experience concerning quality for 1080p content on DVD5 since I have considered even a ~2h movie on DVD9 with 2x AC3 640kbit/s audio movie only very critical... I would appreciate a lot if you could post your command line.

Regards

[rack04]

What settings do you use for x264? I really wonder about your experience concerning quality for 1080p content on DVD5 since I have considered even a ~2h movie on DVD9 with 2x AC3 640kbit/s audio movie only very critical... I would appreciate a lot if you could post your command line.

Regards

Here is what I use:
@SET X264_PATH=
@SET WORKING_DIRECTORY=
@SET FILENAME=
@SET AVS_INPUT=
@SET DESIRED_BITRATE=
"%x264_PATH%" --pass 1 --bitrate %DESIRED_BITRATE% --stats "%WORKING_DIRECTORY%\%FILENAME%.stats" --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --weightb --direct auto --filter -1:-1 --subme 2 --partitions none --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 40000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --qcomp 0.5 --me dia --threads auto --thread-input --sar 1:1 --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output NUL "%AVS_INPUT%" --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd
"%x264_PATH%" --pass 2 --bitrate %DESIRED_BITRATE% --stats "%WORKING_DIRECTORY%\%FILENAME%.stats" --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --weightb --direct auto --filter -1:-1 --subme 7 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 40000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --qcomp 0.5 --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --sar 1:1 --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "%WORKING_DIRECTORY%\%FILENAME%-output.h264" "%AVS_INPUT%" --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd
PAUSE

[mech61]

Ok so I only really needed to keep my PIONEER BDC-S02BK reader and didnt need to buy a blu-ray burner?

[laserfan]

I really wonder about your experience...I used the very first .bat jdobbs posted earlier in this thread, with x264 build r955 IIRC. Worked perfectly, looks fantastic. So good I'm hard-pressed not to use it again, even without the keyint and minkeyint changes, or with a newer x264 build.

[GZZ]

what does the --mvrange 511, specially the 511 comes from ? in the help for x264 it says:

--mvrange <integer> Maximum motion vector length [-1 (auto)]

But why 511 and not 1000 or -1 for auto ?

[oRBIT]

What really bothers me with some blu-ray titles is that the movies can't be resumed if you once have stopped playback. I've imagined this has something to do with Java-menus could it be correct? My blu-rays that starts quickly also seems to be able to resume but discs with very advanced menues doesn't seem to be able to resume.
So my questions is, how will this work with BD-Rebuilder? I guess the resume-problem still might be there as you copy the entire disc but how about movie-only mode?

[jdobbs]

If you make a full backup, it will work exactly like the original. If you make a movie-only, it will resume.

[magic144]

@oRBIT - I too have seen the no-resume feature on my BD discs. From what I've read and seen, this inability to resume discs' playback positions is attributable to some Java functionality on the discs in question... Obviously, if you strip these discs down to movie-only reencodes without menus or attendant control features, you will once more have a basic movie file which will be resumable in your player.

[oRBIT]

I've learned that BD-Rebuilder in it's current (beta) stage will recode audio to AC3.. Will I be able to recode the audio to 2-channel AC3 aswell within the application?

[Rectal Prolapse]

Will BD-Rebuilder have an option to not re-encode the video and audio?

I assume there will be an option to also re-encode for BD-25, or re-encode extras-only while leaving the movie (video and audio format) intact.

I apologize if this has been answered already - it's hard to search for any mention of the above.

[nwg]

I just done my first 1080p encode (I, Robot) with x264 to a single layer dvd instead of the usual 720p. Despite taking around 40 hours instead of the usual 30, the result is still impressive.

It would be good if this BD Rebuilder can work with the original Blu Ray subtitles without having to use SRT ones.

[jdobbs]

Just an update to everyone: I've been assigned to a special project in my "real job" that has pulled me away for awhile. I'll get back to the beta as soon as I can. Sorry for the delay, but I really don't have an option.

[jdobbs]

I've learned that BD-Rebuilder in it's current (beta) stage will recode audio to AC3.. Will I be able to recode the audio to 2-channel AC3 aswell within the application?I hadn't thought of that -- but it is very easy to add.

[jdobbs]

Will BD-Rebuilder have an option to not re-encode the video and audio?

I assume there will be an option to also re-encode for BD-25, or re-encode extras-only while leaving the movie (video and audio format) intact.

I apologize if this has been answered already - it's hard to search for any mention of the above. Not in the first beta release, but later certainly. I assume this would be simply to remove some audio, but retain the remaining audio/video.

It already has an option to reencode to BD-25.

[rendez2k]

jdobbs, maybe if you get a chance you could list the features it will have at release and the ones you plan to add in the future?

[Fishman0919]

Ok. Here is the .BAT, it is placed in the same directory as the .AVS file and you have to set the file name and bitrate before running (first two lines). The bitrate is calculated based upon the size (in frames) of the input. Note that for readability I've broken the X264 commands into multiple lines here but in the .BAT file the entire command is on one line.

@SET IN_TITLE=FILETITLE
@SET IN_BITRATE=5240
TIME /T
"E:\X264\x264.exe" "%IN_TITLE%.AVS" --bitrate %IN_BITRATE% --level 4.1 --sar 1:1
--aud --vbv-bufsize 14745 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --filter 0,0 --bframes 3 --direct auto
--keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --subme 2 --analyse none --me dia --threads auto --thread-input
--progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --stats "stats2.log" --pass 1 --output NUL
TIME /T
"E:\X264\x264.exe" "%IN_TITLE%.AVS" --bitrate %IN_BITRATE% --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 --aud
--vbv-bufsize 14745 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --filter 0,0 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3
--keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --subme 6 --trellis 1
--analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --me umh --threads auto --thread-input
--progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --stats "stats2.log" --pass 2 --output "%IN_TITLE%.264"
TIME /T
PAUSE
Comments from any X264 experts out there who could improve the command lines are certainly welcome.


[Edit - 09/03/08] Updated to limit key interval to 24 -- due to 1 sec limit on BD.



@SET IN_TITLE=Full - 720p
@SET IN_BITRATE=3600
TIME /T
"d:\X264\x264.exe" "%IN_TITLE%.AVS" --bitrate %IN_BITRATE% --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 --aud --vbv-bufsize 16500 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --filter 0,0 --bframes 3 --b-pyramid --direct auto --b-adapt 2 --aq-mode 2 --aq-strength 1.0 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --subme 2 --trellis 1 --analyse none --me dia --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --stats "x264HQ2pass.log" --pass 1 --output NUL
TIME /T
"d:\X264\x264.exe" "%IN_TITLE%.AVS" --bitrate %IN_BITRATE% --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 --aud --vbv-bufsize 16500 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --filter 0,0 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-pyramid --aq-mode 2 --aq-strength 1.0 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --weightb --direct auto --subme 7 --trellis 1 --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --me umh --merange 20 --mvrange 511 --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --stats "x264HQ2pass.log" --pass 2 --output "%IN_TITLE%.h264"
TIME /T
PAUSE

Adds --b-adapt 2 (to 1st pass), --b-pyramid, --aq-mode 2, --aq-strength 1.0

For better B frame handling and Adaptive Quantization Mode for better distribute of available bits between all macroblocks in the video.

Nice info page on x264 settings LINK (http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/X264_Settings)

[GZZ]

I will try it out. But can you please explain what the
--mvrange 511 option is good for ?

[Fishman0919]

I will try it out. But can you please explain what the
--mvrange 511 option is good for ?

Nice info page on x264 settings LINK (http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/X264_Settings)

All about the settings.

...or

mvrange

Default: 511.75

Set the maximum range of any one motion vector. The default value is the maximum specified by the h264 standard. It is not level or profile dependant, so don't touch it.

511.75 is not accessed as a value, so the max setting would be 511

[GZZ]

I dont see a reason to change it.

The default value is the maximum specified by the h264 standard. It is not level or profile dependant, so don't touch it.

When its default, I think its default on. When the text says Default: Not Set. Then its not turned on, except if you use the option. Alot of the commands are default set, because they are needed and the default value is the best.

[Fishman0919]

I dont see a reason to change it.



When its default, I think its default on. When the text says Default: Not Set. Then its not turned on, except if you use the option. Alot of the commands are default set, because they are needed and the default value is the best.

Better sure that .75 will not make a noticeable difference in quality. I did play with this setting to see what effect on quality and speed it has.

Odd the x264 will not access the default value in the command line.

[GZZ]

well - you could try 0 instead, because if it dont use the default value, what value should it then use ?. So setting it to zero (0) will let you know. :D

[DVD Maniac]

Just an update to everyone: I've been assigned to a special project in my "real job" that has pulled me away for awhile. I'll get back to the beta as soon as I can. Sorry for the delay, but I really don't have an option.

jdobbs,
Looks very exciting stuff, I have been focused on other projects myself recently hence lack of posts! Any chance of a beta tester status please!

[Sophocles]

jdobbs left a massage a few posts back regarding Beta progress.

Just an update to everyone: I've been assigned to a special project in my "real job" that has pulled me away for awhile. I'll get back to the beta as soon as I can. Sorry for the delay, but I really don't have an option.


I hear you loud and clear when it comes to the "real job."

[DVD Maniac]

Just wondered whether he was releasing betas to try before "official" release ala original Rebuilder. :):)

[Sophocles]

Just wondered whether he was releasing betas to try before "official" release ala original Rebuilder.



RB done right can never leave beta status since it is an ongoing effort to keep pace with a format's architecture.

[writersblock29]

@Jdobbs

It sounds like we're getting roughly the same encoding speeds. I'm using a Phenom 9950, and currently chugging Black Hawk Down at 7.66fps, 2nd pass. I've noticed that it depends on what the source used for compression (MPEG2, VC-1, or AVC) as to how fast it goes... but even then, it's dickering over maybe an extra frame per second.

Still, it's not as bad as the really early days of DVD conversions. Remember ReMPEG2? :rolleyes:

I'm following this thread with a lot of interest. It's good to see you plugging away at Blu ray now!

[laserfan]

I've noticed that it depends on what the source used for compression (MPEG2, VC-1, or AVC) as to how fast it goes... but even then, it's dickering over maybe an extra frame per second.These different sources are being Decoded by different Decoders in your PC, and so their different decoding speeds may account for this.

[Sn8kbordin]

I am using MEgui BluRay disc profile and I am getting 2-2.5fps on Opteron 185 OCed a bit w/ 2GB RAM. :( My laptop's XPS1530 Core2Due (I think it is fastest they offer) w/ 4GB RAM and vista I can do 2.5FPS on 2nd pass
Gotta jump on the quad core wagon soon.

[jdobbs]

These 1920x1080p sources are just huge and I don't think even a decent dual core has enough "oomph" for it. Luckily, though, as we saw in the DVD world -- the processors improve fast. I can still remember back in 2004 when it wasn't unusual for some people to see 16 hours for a DVD to be reencoded.

[Sn8kbordin]

Guess where my X-mas bonus is being spent at?
New motherboard, Quad CPU (once I research them to see which one I want), RAM and 2 10K RPM WD HDDs in RAID0.

[jdobbs]

From what I've heard the Intel Quads seem to be a better choice than the AMDs... my Phenom is ok -- but I'm hearing the Q6600 overclocked is significantly faster.

[Fishman0919]

I have both an Intel Q6600 and an AMD 9950 Black Editon. Both are great. It really depends on what you are doing and what software you are running.

For me the AMD 9950 Black Edition OC's better but then it's multiplexer is unlocked.... so as long as you can keep it cool... you can run it very high.... I have my 9950 at 3.8 stable with water cooling.

[jdobbs]

Wow. My Phenom is a 9500, so it's significantly lower in the AMD chain than the black editions. It also was manufactured prior to the fix they put in the 9550s. I haven't tried to overclock it (my motherboard sucks for overclocking) -- but I've heard that the 9500 isn't greate for overclocking like the Q6600s (which are similar to the 9500 in price).

3.8GHz on a quad? Wow. That has to kick butt, even with HD AVC encoding...

[Fishman0919]

The AMD 9950 Black Edition or Reg ver runs at 2.6 norm.... The Black Edition lets you set the multiplexer up to 6.4.

I had it running at 4.0 but was have issues runing x264 and CCE.... backed it down to 3.8 and works fine.

[Fishman0919]

A compare of different encoders with Mainconcept Reference 1.5.1 LINK (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-q3-2008/Mainconcept-Reference-1-5-1,832.html)

[Wombler]

From what I've heard the Intel Quads seem to be a better choice than the AMDs... my Phenom is ok -- but I'm hearing the Q6600 overclocked is significantly faster.

Have you heard anything in relation to the new i7's yet?


Wombler

[Fishman0919]

Have you heard anything in relation to the new i7's yet?


Wombler


A friend at work just built one... Intel Core i7 940... very close to his old Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 but takes advantage of DDR3 mem.

He said it has it pluses and minuses.

The new AMD AM3 cpu do the same thing... have better handling for DDR3 mem. LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM3)

[laserfan]

A friend at work just built one... Intel Core i7 940... very close to his old Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650...
I know that wasn't a joke, but Ha, ha! Some of us are still running Pentium P4s! :o

What is giving him pause/heartburn about his upgrade? When *I* finally commit to upgrading from my P4 3.2GHz I was thinking i7 and DDR3, the whole-nine-yards, myself.

[Fishman0919]

I know that wasn't a joke, but Ha, ha! Some of us are still running Pentium P4s! :o

What is giving him pause/heartburn about his upgrade? When *I* finally commit to upgrading from my P4 3.2GHz I was thinking i7 and DDR3, the whole-nine-yards, myself.

He was hoping for a little more I think... being it's DDR3.

The Intel Core i7 940 is a tad slow then the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 (2.93GHz vs 3.0GHz) but he was hoping with it being DDR3 it would be lot faster. He said it does seem faster but not what he was hoping for.

[Sn8kbordin]

He was hoping for a little more I think... being it's DDR3.

The Intel Core i7 940 is a tad slow then the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 (2.93GHz vs 3.0GHz) but he was hoping with it being DDR3 it would be lot faster. He said it does seem faster but not what he was hoping for.

Any benchmark numbers to show?

[laserfan]

He said it does seem faster but not what he was hoping for.Thanks; yeah I guess when we spend precious $$$ on upgrades we tend to look for 2x-or-more improvements. At least I do (or will, expect maybe even 8x speedboost over my P4).

[Capsbackup]

With all this discussion of processors and encoding speeds, I was just wondering if there is any current news on how BD Rebuilder is coming along? There was silence for quite some time, and curiousity, with some patience, is getting the better of me. Maybe "Santa jdobbs" is coming to town?

[Fishman0919]

Thanks; yeah I guess when we spend precious $$$ on upgrades we tend to look for 2x-or-more improvements. At least I do (or will, expect maybe even 8x speedboost over my P4).

You may want to take a look at the new AMD AM3. First reviews and reads look very good.

[Wombler]

A friend at work just built one... Intel Core i7 940... very close to his old Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 but takes advantage of DDR3 mem.


Damn... I was hoping it would be more clear cut than that.

I'm long overdue an upgrade and was thinking about building a new system with the focus being very much on video processing speed.

I had it in mind to go either for the state of the art in relation to the current generation, or bottom end of the new generation (i7 920) which could be more easily upgraded later.

From what you're saying I'll either have to set the bar higher or content myself with the current technology.

I'm in no immediate hurry though so I think I'll have to have a look at the AM3 and see what the story is with it before I make a decision.

BTW I found this (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/Intel-Core-i7-Nehalem,review-31404-32.html) for those that are interested in benchmarks.


Wombler

[Sophocles]

From what I've heard the Intel Quads seem to be a better choice than the AMDs... my Phenom is ok -- but I'm hearing the Q6600 overclocked is significantly faster.


I have a water cooled Intel Q9650 (EO stepping) overclocked to 4 GHz that is bringing two pass encodes down to about 4.5 hours. The new i7 chips will provide some progress, but it's probably going to take an 8 core processor with compatible multithreaded software before we are on par with today's DVD backup times. There is also the possibility that GPGPU parallel processing will come along to offset the CPU's weak points and really pick things up. For folding a single decent Video card with CUDA drivers is about 20 times faster than the fastest Quad CPU.

[Wombler]

There is also the possibility that GPGPU parallel processing will come along to offset the CPU's weak points and really pick things up. For folding a single decent Video card with CUDA drivers is about 20 times faster than the fastest Quad CPU.

Yeah I know that and it would make my choices a lot simpler as I could just plough a larger proportion of my money into a new video card but I think I recall Jdobbs stating somewhere that he has no plans to develop this at present. :(


Wombler

[Sharc]

Seems the original scope of this thread has been lost .....

[writersblock29]

@Sharc

Well... yes and no. Sure, this isn't the right place for discussing hardware specs--but on the other hand, it offers insight to how speedy a given project can be expected to complete. I know that if Jdobbs offered a release of BDRebuilder right here and now, the very first thing he'd hear is, "Good golly, this takes forever." From that point on, the only thing people would focus on is the speed at which they could get from point A to point B. It might help to ease their minds (and pocketbooks) to find out that those of us with high-end equipment are just as frustrated as they are, and upgrading really won't ease that much for them. At least, not at this point.

I do understand your point, however. On the other hand, this thread really hasn't remained focused on one aspect for very long: DVD-to-Blu ray, DVD upconversion-to-Blu ray, and now Blu-ray to AVCHD DVD as well as DVDs with true Blu ray content on them. I see it as an examination of possibilities, with an eye on what's available and what people will want to use. It's bound to wander... but there's lots to think about in this area of backup creation, and a lot of good input on this thread.

[DVD Maniac]

No harm in filling the wait for the final release :) Perhaps jdobbs can provide an update on progress?

Im running dual core AMD and only just upgraded so would prefer to wait and see how that performs first. I for one am less stressed about encode times. Remember the good old days of REMPEG and 12 hour encodes you left running overnight :rolleyes:

- its really no big deal providing the end result is a high quality one which works on your set-top players.

Anyway, i'm waiting patiently, but I am sure we would like a little Christmas toy to play with

Jdobbs

WE want pressies
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
.........and more pressies!

[Furiousflea]

The AMD 9950 Black Edition or Reg ver runs at 2.6 norm.... The Black Edition lets you set the multiplexer up to 6.4.

I had it running at 4.0 but was have issues runing x264 and CCE.... backed it down to 3.8 and works fine.

Its called a multiplier not a multiplexer...

Sorry that was annoying me :)

Also, please don't spread false information a 9950 can't hope to compete with a Q6600 for overclocking potential, or even at eqally clocked speeds the Q6600 is a good 20% faster for video encoding - at least!

Most Q6600s do 3.4-3.6Ghz on air, with the majority hitting 3.6Ghz. Some even higher.

On water they nearly ALL do 3.8-4.2Ghz.

A Q6600 at 3.8Ghz would be about as fast as your 9950 clocked at 4.5-4.6Ghz.

No disrespect, and I'm sorry to troll, but if your not speaking from first hand experience (I'm not either but I have done my research) please don't make incorrect assertions.

[Furiousflea]

No harm in filling the wait for the final release :) Perhaps jdobbs can provide an update on progress?

Im running dual core AMD and only just upgraded so would prefer to wait and see how that performs first. I for one am less stressed about encode times. Remember the good old days of REMPEG and 12 hour encodes you left running overnight :rolleyes:

- its really no big deal providing the end result is a high quality one which works on your set-top players.

Anyway, i'm waiting patiently, but I am sure we would like a little Christmas toy to play with

Jdobbs

WE want pressies
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
Pressies!
.........and more pressies!

It's going to take more like 3-4 days on a dual core AMD, even 3Ghz+ clocked ones.

[Furiousflea]

You may want to take a look at the new AMD AM3. First reviews and reads look very good.

About as good as a Q6600 from my reading, clock for clock. Again not as good at overclocking though.

[jdobbs]

It's going to take more like 3-4 days on a dual core AMD, even 3Ghz+ clocked ones.It gets slow, but nowhere near that kind of time. On my Dual Core AMD clocked at 2.4GHz it takes about 20 hours to do a typical complete Blu-ray backup, and less for a movie-only.

[jdobbs]

No disrespect, and I'm sorry to troll, but if your not speaking from first hand experience (I'm not either but I have done my research) please don't make incorrect assertions.Actually in an earlier post (#542) he said he has both... so I would take that to mean he is speaking from first hand experience.

[Capsbackup]

@jdobbs
I know its been asked several times before, so excuse my impatience, but is there any more recent estimates on a release date for your BD-Rebuilder program? I can't be the only one anxiously awaiting your release!!

[prettyboy85712]

@jdobbs
I know its been asked several times before, so excuse my impatience, but is there any more recent estimates on a release date for your BD-Rebuilder program? I can't be the only one anxiously awaiting your release!!

Same here. I've got my new i7 machine standing by.

[MadMonkey57]

@jdobbs
I think I've read somewhere in this thread that you planned on developping you're own muxing tool within bd-rebuilder. Is that correct?

[jdobbs]

Yes -- but it isn't complete yet. Right now BD Rebuilder is using TSMUXER.

[moviefan]

What is this tool called, created by jdobbs, that fixed some bug in tsMuxer? In what cases is this needed and where can I get it?

[MadMonkey57]

jdobbs created a tool called fixclpi (available in the forum :search:). It fixes an internal table in movie clips generated by tsmuxer. Some players (like PS3) seem to be doing fine without it. Some others (I don't remember what models of Sony's) require it to support proper fast forward / rewind and chapter seeking. Some others (Panasonic's BD30/35) seem to live better without fixclpi (firmware maybe)...

You could then use it in case you encounter problems with your creations (F-FORW/REW, chap. seeking) or if you seek better "BD spec" compliancy, please let us know how it goes if you give it a try.:thanks:

[Fishman0919]

About as good as a Q6600 from my reading, clock for clock. Again not as good at overclocking though.

My AMD am2 9950 Black Edition is faster then my q6600... much faster... and OC's much better... lookie at my "AMD 9950 OC'ed" below. The AM3's are faster then that.

[Vanderlow]

I wonder how a blu-ray movie will look backed up via .264 on a DVDr 9? It's got to look better then a regular DVD, right? and this is something BD Rebuilder will do (when it's out)?

[Chefkoch_ico]

At least movie only you can do some pretty neat things.

I did this myself with HD-DVD some time ago, however, to not generate artefacts I reduced the resolution to 1440x1080p24 anamorphic. Dont know, if thats in BluRay spec. But with this I could get a 140 minute movie with great quality on a DVD9.

For me is a resize to BD-R25 important, since its more compatible to Standalone BluRay Players and in 99% the quality will be really great, even with menus and extras. And they are not that expensive anymore.

Bye

[jdobbs]

I wonder how a blu-ray movie will look backed up via .264 on a DVDr 9? It's got to look better then a regular DVD, right? and this is something BD Rebuilder will do (when it's out)? If it's movie-only you can't tell the difference between the reencoded movie (1920x1080p) on BD-9 and the original... I've done a lot of them in testing and haven't seen one that has degraded yet. For most you can't tell the difference on a full backup (including extras) either. I have a BFD-25 option in BD Rebuilder and haven't seen a disc yet that really required it. In fact, for typical movies (two hours or so) you can do a movie-only backup to BD-5 with no detectable blocking. I'm telling you, I'm excited about this -- H.264 (via X264) is really efficient.

You may see a beta for Christmas... but don't expect it to be bug-free.

For me is a resize to BD-R25 important, since its more compatible to Standalone BluRay Players BD-9 is Blu-ray compliant... it isn't some made-up standard like mini-DVD.

[Vanderlow]

just so I'm sure we are talking apples to apples when you say BD-9 you mean BD movie shrunk on a 8.5 GB DVDr-9, right? and BD-5 would be a BD backed up .264 on 4.5GB DVDr-5? if that's so, I'm excited too ...

[rack04]

just so I'm sure we are talking apples to apples when you say BD-9 you mean BD movie shrunk on a 8.5 GB DVDr-9, right? and BD-5 would be a BD backed up .264 on 4.5GB DVDr-5? if that's so, I'm excited too ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#BD9.2FBD5_Blu-ray_Disc

[writersblock29]

@Jdobbs

[Quoted] "In fact, for typical movies (two hours or so) you can do a movie-only backup to BD-5 with no detectable blocking."

Hmm... Last night I did a movie-only of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull to DVD5, and there were blocks on pretty much every flat area of the image. The detail of moving objects was good, but the pixelation on inactive areas (the sky, a wall, the ground, for examples) was pure distraction. Doing this movie on DVD9 resulted in a flawless copy. Since I'm using Ripbot264 and not reducing the resolution (both attempts were 1080p), and--while I am keeping the 5.1 (in this case, reducing the HD True track to 448kbs AC3), I'm wondering: Are there any special settings you're using for AVC that Ripbot isn't? Given the unreliablity of dual-layer media these days (it's a headache keeping track of Singapore Verbatims--those India disks are really only good for art projects or trash can liners), I'd love to be able to use single-layer blanks.

[jdobbs]

Are you watching it in motion or looking at a "paused" frame? It's probably a stretch to say "BD-5 with no detectable blocking" (I should have been more careful with my choice of words). But it isn't noticable during normal viewing. For the most part the settings are the same as in the batch I posted earlier in this thread.

[~bT~]

bd5 with 1080p is asking for blocking.
bd9 should solve it.

[writersblock29]

@Jdobbs

This was with regular watching. I had to laugh, though; you reminded me of all the "this encoder is better than that encoder" arguments where it would appear as if some people were so busy nit-picking individual frames, they never had the chance to *cough* actually watch a movie. But back to the Indy Jones film, I decided to test this one because it's only a hair longer than two hours; I wanted to test the boundaries a little bit more. I had done the old 1980 Carpenter movie, The Thing, to DVD5... and it looked very good. What pixelation I did notice I caulked up to just how grainy the original source material is--not to mention that there's a lot of fire (I remember MPEG2 encoders didn't seem to agree with flame, fog, or water... I assumed AVC might be privy to some of the same if even to a lesser degree).

Both my television (50" 1080p hooked up via HDMI) and my computer monitor (1440 X 900 19" LCD via DVI) displayed the same behavior. Both of these projects I also committed to DVD9, and those are the ones I'm keeping; those looked absolutely indistinguishable from the original sources.

Now I'm eyeballing Gangs of New York. That sucker's close to three hours long. If I don't die of old age before the encoding's done, it'll be interesting to see how that looks. But I didn't want to commit to it before I knew if there's some other ST-friendly settings I could be using to maximize the efficientcy of X264. I trust your eyes even if I understand how subjective the issue of quality is, so I'd figured I'd ask about your DVD5 encoding settings.

[jdobbs]

Of course there's always the option of going 1280x720p for DVD-5 too. I haven't added that to BD Rebuilder yet, but I'm eventually going to.

[G_M_C]

[...]

Now I'm eyeballing Gangs of New York. That sucker's close to three hours long. If I don't die of old age before the encoding's done, it'll be interesting to see how that looks.

[...]


That's never gonna look good, whatever encoder or settings you use. Not even buying a complete SGI encoder-farm will help you.

Why you ask ? Cause it's rated as the "UGLIEST VIDEO TRANSFER" of 2008, and one of the worst quality transfers ever. ( http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Worst_Blu-rays_of_2008/Kenneth_Brown/Little_Lumps_of_Coal:_The_Worst_Blu-rays_of_2008/2344)

[MadMonkey57]

I can share some of my experiences in this debate over H.264 / quality / BD5 / BD9 / 720p / 1080p stuff.

In addition to my own personal feelings about the overall quality of my encodings, I like the objectivity of metrics. If you are interested, I suggest you start here : MSU Video Quality Measure (http://compression.ru/video/quality_measure/index_en.html). Basically, you can use tools to compare an encoding with the original movie (and even compare 2 different encodings) and thus give you an objective point of view on your encoding.

I made something like 30 encodings and ran all of them through the tools. I have come to the following arbitrary conclusion on authoring BD5s :

- Movie length < 1h45mn AND 1 AC3 audio stream 640 kbits/s : i keep 1080p
- Otherwise, I downsample to 720p.

Please again consider that this is arbitrary based on a few tests and comparisons, there are other parameters that should be considered (i.e. animation movies, fast paced action movies, top/bottom black borders, TV size, ...), but i wanted a simple rule for deciding on downsampling or not.

So far, "I" am quite happy with what I authored and "I" like what I watch on my 52" Sony LCD. The important thing is that "you" enjoy your own BD5/9s.

[Fishman0919]

bd5 with 1080p is asking for blocking.
bd9 should solve it.

Well the 30 or so movies only I've reencoder at 1080p onto a BD-5 (single layer DVD) look indistinguishable from the org.

Edit: The only movie I was really forced to reencoder to BD-9 or resize to 720p so far was "The Dark Knight"

For anyone interested, here is the command line I use...
takes about 7-10 hours for me... depending on the movie.

--level 4.0 --sar 1:1 --aud --vbv-bufsize 18000 --vbv-maxrate 18000 --filter 0,0 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-pyramid --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --direct auto --b-adapt 1 --subme 3 --trellis 2 --partitions all --8x8dct --me hex --merange 16 --no-fast-pskip --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output

--level 4.0 --sar 1:1 --aud --vbv-bufsize 18000 --vbv-maxrate 18000 --filter 0,0 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-pyramid --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --weightb --direct auto --subme 7 --trellis 2 --partitions all --8x8dct --me umh --merange 24 --no-fast-pskip --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output

[MadMonkey57]

What do you mean exactly by "indistinguishable" (objectivity / subjectivity) ?
What size is your TV screen ?
What length are your movies ?
How many audio streams ? What bitrates ?

You see, I'm not saying that I don't believe you (on the contrary, I'm a 100% sure you fully enjoy your movies), I'm simply trying to outline that it depends on so many technical parameters and personal preference that it's almost impossible to find the golden rule... And by the way, I believe everyone has his/her own golden rule... I believe you have found yours...

[jdobbs]

Hmmm... to me it means "I can't tell the difference." Which has been my experience as well. If someone walked into the room and saw it playing they wouldn't be able to tell if it was the original or the copy playing. Does that mean it's perfect? Probably not -- but damn close. But of course the original isn't perfect either. If you stop most original BDs playing you will see blocking as well.

I use close to the same thinking you do in deciding which way to go. But I usually decide to go BD-9 if it is over about 2.25 - 2.5 hrs, except for high-action films. Those would probably start showing at about 2 hrs.

Lately though I've been doing most of mine as a full backups (with extras, menus etc.) and I put those all (with a few small source exceptions) on BD-9s.

[MadMonkey57]

Well to me it means the video quality measurement tools reach a high score comparing original and backup movies. It's just a matter of "personal preference"... Again, I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong. I'm just saying it's pretty hard to decide on going BD5/BD9 or 1080p/720p...

[Fishman0919]

What do you mean exactly by "indistinguishable" (objectivity / subjectivity) ?
What size is your TV screen ?
What length are your movies ?
How many audio streams ? What bitrates ?

You see, I'm not saying that I don't believe you (on the contrary, I'm a 100% sure you fully enjoy your movies), I'm simply trying to outline that it depends on so many technical parameters and personal preference that it's almost impossible to find the golden rule... And by the way, I believe everyone has his/her own golden rule... I believe you have found yours...

I mean... like jdobbs said... anyone watching the movie... including myself... can't tell the difference while watching it. Which is what matters to me.

Screen sizes are Sony KDL-52XBR2 52" and a Samsung HL61A750 61"

Over 30 different movies... all different lenghts.... my rule of thumb is pretty much the same as yours but I go with 2hr's plus... but not to say it still doesn't look good, just for me... got to cut off somewhere.

Just the one main audio... mostly 640k DD... sometimes with a longer movie.. I will convert the audio to 448k

[MadMonkey57]

Ok. Thanks for reporting back.

As I said before, I certainly respect your point of views (both yours and jdobbs'), it's just that I personally rely more on subjective metrics than on being able to tell a difference (probably because I am not good at such a task...). Anyway, it's good to know your experiences. They give me opportunities to refine my golden rule (and quit relying on maths all the time...:p)

[DVD Maniac]

You may see a beta for Christmas... but don't expect it to be bug-free.



I don't care about bugs, lived in London for much of my life and its full of nasty creatures, oh and the insects are a nightmare too.

I want a pressie to play with!
I want a pressie to play with!
I want a pressie to play with!
I want a pressie to play with!
I want a pressie to play with!

[jdobbs]

Well to me it means the video quality measurement tools reach a high score comparing original and backup movies. It's just a matter of "personal preference"... Again, I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong. I'm just saying it's pretty hard to decide on going BD5/BD9 or 1080p/720p...With that I disagree. I've been throught the entire suite of automated "quality measuring" tools and algorithms over the past few years -- and none of them are even close to right. In fact -- when measured against human perception they don't even seem to have any reliable correlation. I've seen examples where PSNR gives good scores to video that is so terrible that it is intuitively obvious to the casual observer. Eyeballs and double-blind tests are the only reliable measurements.

As you said earlier -- it's all opinion and perception.Just the one main audio... mostly 640k DD... sometimes with a longer movie.. I will convert the audio to 448k.I convert all my discs' audio to 448K if it is 6 channel and 192K if it is 2 channel. I can't hear the difference that 640K gives...

One other thing you have to watch too: On BD sometimes the subtitles are huge. I made a backup of "The Matrix" the other day -- and the combined subtitles for just the feature came to more than a gigabyte.

[moviefan]

If I may throw in my opinion on the topic of deciding whether to encode to BD5 or BD9, 1080p or 720, and how "good quality" is measured, I personally think that good quality with 2 AC3 tracks and 1080p is generally only achieved with BD9 encodes. Concerning the quality: I don't measure the quality on basis of a comparison between the original and an encode but on the subjective look of the encode, especially because my aim is not to be transparent but to improve the look for my taste. This means, I want to degrain a little and stabilize the picture because it really bothers me when there are dancing pixels in flat areas where there is no real movement at all... I like rather clean, stable and sharp picture and not this grainy stuff... Apart from the better look, in my opinion, degraining and stabilizing makes a video more compressible, so with movies shorter than 2h, a BD5 encode might look very good as well.

[Wombler]

Eyeballs and double-blind tests are the only reliable measurements.

That is most definitely the case and is the ultimate test in my mind too.

If your eye can't perceive any loss in quality then to all practical intents and purposes it's as good as the original.

Equally if one version looks better than the other to the eye it's pointless to say that the quality measurement software says otherwise.

One other thing you have to watch too: On BD sometimes the subtitles are huge. I made a backup of "The Matrix" the other day -- and the combined subtitles for just the feature came to more than a gigabyte.

Wow that's unbelievable. How come they're so phenomenally huge compared to DVD?


Wombler

[rendez2k]

I may have missed this somewhere.... I currently use RipBot264 for BR to BD9 which appears to work a treat (although it takes ages of course). What features will this have which are different or better?

[Sharc]

To me it seems that the biggest challenge for the x.264 encoder are fading flat scenes, like the blue sky at the beginning of "The bucket list" where I noticed color banding in my movie-only 720p backup with 2 AC3 tracks on a BD5

[Fishman0919]

I may have missed this somewhere.... I currently use RipBot264 for BR to BD9 which appears to work a treat (although it takes ages of course). What features will this have which are different or better?

It seems that jdobbs is making a BD Rebuilder... much the same as his DVD Rebuilder. It backs up the whole disc. Menu, main movie, extras... etc.

RipBot264, which is great, backs up only the main movie.

[Fishman0919]

To me it seems that the biggest challenge for the x.264 encoder are fading flat scenes, like the blue sky at the beginning of "The bucket list" where I noticed color banding in my movie-only 720p backup with 2 AC3 tracks on a BD5

aq-mode and aq-strength can help with that.

--aq-mode 2 --aq-strength 1.0

[Sharc]

aq-mode and aq-strength can help with that.

--aq-mode 2 --aq-strength 1.0

Hmmm...., according to x264 --longhelp the --aq-mode 2 does no longer exist, only 0 or 1 are possible. Default is 1 (=Variance AQ)

Isn't --aq-mode 1 --aq-strength 1.0 set by default since a while? I thought that it needs no longer be explicitly specified, unless for values other than the default 1.0. Am I wrong here?

[MadMonkey57]

With that I disagree. I've been throught the entire suite of automated "quality measuring" tools and algorithms over the past few years -- and none of them are even close to right. ... Eyeballs and double-blind tests are the only reliable measurements...

...Concerning the quality: I don't measure the quality on basis of a comparison between the original and an encode but on the subjective look of the encode...

...If your eye can't perceive any loss in quality then to all practical intents and purposes it's as good as the original... Equally if one version looks better than the other to the eye it's pointless to say that the quality measurement software says otherwise...

All right, i get the message...:)
And I understand, I really do.
Nevertheless, the latest techniques and tools in terms of quality measurement deserve some consideration IMO...

Anyway, the whole point in disagreeing (in forums) is to give us a chance to widen our "field of vision" and thus to improve. I'm glad I improved.

[jdobbs]

Well I posted BD Rebuilder v0.17.9 (beta) for a few minutes this morning -- then realized I'd changed something overnight that made it completely stop working. So if anyone downloaded it -- don't waste your time, its broken. I'll post again after I make some changes.

[Update] Well... it looks like it may have been just a bad disc that got me all spun up. I'm still testing, but will post again if all looks well.

[DVD Maniac]

jdobbs,
Where is the download link? Cant see a sticky or link in this thread?

[TBL]

DVD Maniac: jdobbs removed the link and updated his latest post.

I'm still testing, but will post again if all looks well.

[jdobbs]

It's posted again. I tested it and it was just a bad disc, I burned three more and it worked fine on all.

Remember -- it's a beta. That means it has probably has bugs -- and this release is to help find them.

[Fishman0919]

Hmmm...., according to x264 --longhelp the --aq-mode 2 does no longer exist, only 0 or 1 are possible. Default is 1 (=Variance AQ)

Isn't --aq-mode 1 --aq-strength 1.0 set by default since a while? I thought that it needs no longer be explicitly specified, unless for values other than the default 1.0. Am I wrong here?


For Wiki (http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/X264_Settings#aq-mode)..

aq-mode

Adaptive Quantization Mode

Default: 2

Without AQ, x264 tends to underallocate bits to lower details sections. AQ is used to better distribute the available bits between all macroblocks in the video. This setting changes what scope AQ re-arranges bits in:

* 0: Do not use AQ at all.
* 1: Allow AQ to redistribute bits within each frame.
* 2: Allow AQ to redistribute bits across the whole video.

Recommendation: Default

See also: aq-strength
[edit] aq-strength

Adaptive Quantization Strength

Default: 1.0

Sets the strength of AQ bias towards low detail ('flat') macroblocks. Negative values are not allowed. Values more than a couple of hundred percent off from 1.0 are probably a bad idea.

Recommendation: Default

See also: aq-mode

Still works fine for me with build 1057

[G_M_C]

It's posted again. I tested it and it was just a bad disc, I burned three more and it worked fine on all.

Remember -- it's a beta. That means it has probably has bugs -- and this release is to help find them.

Could you provide me with the link ....

/me cant find it :?

[rendez2k]

Could you provide me with the link ....

/me cant find it :?

It's in a sticky so go back to the main DVD-rb forum.

[DVD Maniac]

Thanks jdobbs, wiill run a trial tonight with my favorite - A few good men" which is a tad under 2 hours run time. Can I ask about the "full backup" option - does this re-encode everything as its present on the original including menu, extras and annoying rubbish? Im still waiting for a reliable tool to edit out unwanted stuff (copyright warnings, trailers etc) I usually like to keep the useful extras.

[jdobbs]

Could you provide me with the link ....

/me cant find it :? Look here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=143716

[jdobbs]

Thanks jdobbs, wiill run a trial tonight with my favorite - A few good men" which is a tad under 2 hours run time. Can I ask about the "full backup" option - does this re-encode everything as its present on the original including menu, extras and annoying rubbish? Im still waiting for a reliable tool to edit out unwanted stuff (copyright warnings, trailers etc) I usually like to keep the useful extras. It keeps everything. Editing will come in future versions -- right now you have a choice between a complete backup and movie-only.

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

A question about compatibility with BD-9 created from BD Rebuilder:
Are they playing on a PS3?

Because of testing, I only own a BluRay enabled HTPC, so thats not kinda good testing platform.
My Brother owns a PS3 which I could also use for testing.

Will a BD-R (25GB) be more compatible?

Bye

[rendez2k]

Hi!

A question about compatibility with BD-9 created from BD Rebuilder:
Are they playing on a PS3?

Because of testing, I only own a BluRay enabled HTPC, so thats not kinda good testing platform.
My Brother owns a PS3 which I could also use for testing.

Will a BD-R (25GB) be more compatible?

Bye

PS3 should be fine. It's worked with all other bd-9s I've done with ripbot. I'll update you if my first test disc with this doesn't work!

[zeus163]

So far, I love it! I remember DVDRB back in the 0.33 days, so this is a joy to be involved with. It took a few tries for me to select the correct source since I was trying to select the source like ripbot would have me to.

I have it up and running and will test back later.

This makes my winter break almost complete!

Oh yeah, I have a PS3, so that is what I will be testing it on. Probably not until tomorrow though.

[rendez2k]

Completed my first full disc backup - Eraser. Two small issues... the first is that the BD-9 was only 93% full. Not a massive issue but would have been nice to use a bit more.

My other issue is that I burnt the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders using ImgBurn but the PS3 picks it up as a data disc so I have to browse through the stream folder to find the main movie. Have I some how burnt it wrong or do I have to change settings in ImgBurn somewhere?

[jdobbs]

Completed my first full disc backup - Eraser. Two small issues... the first is that the BD-9 was only 93% full. Not a massive issue but would have been nice to use a bit more.

My other issue is that I burnt the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders using ImgBurn but the PS3 picks it up as a data disc so I have to browse through the stream folder to find the main movie. Have I some how burnt it wrong or do I have to change settings in ImgBurn somewhere? Are you setting it to the correct format? The burn has to be to a UDF 2.50 format. It doesn't sound like it. Burn using the option under the FILE menu of BD Rebuilder and it should set the format correctly. Just make sure your source and working directories are set to the right place so BD-RB can find the output.

[rendez2k]

Are you setting it to the correct format? The burn has to be to a UDF 2.50 format. It doesn't sound like it. Burn using the option under the FILE menu of BD Rebuilder and it should set the format correctly. Just make sure your source and working directories are set to the right place so BD-RB can find the output.

It is set to UDF 2.50. I'm beginning to wonder if its the rip as I can't get the original to play in PowerDVD - it just plays with a black screen. Is there away to repair or check a rip or should I just start again with it?

Edit: Another thought. I used a cheaper DL disc just to test the output and when I browse to the stream folder on the PS3 and select the main movie it stutters like mad. Could that somehow affect the PS3 seeing it as an actual movie disc?

[jdobbs]

...the first is that the BD-9 was only 93% fullThere's a setting in the config file that can change the target size... (open the config from the FILE menu and you'll see it set to 7910). I set it low for beta testing to avoid oversizing. If you decide to change it, please don't post oversizing issues... I'd rather wait until later for those kinds of adjustments.

[piratburner]

If I only want mainvideo untouched together with one soundtrack, like in TsMuxer, is this possible ? or perhaps that is a function that going to be implemented later ?

When TsMuxer have a bug with TrueHD this should be cool

[zeus163]

Like rendez2k my burned disc showed up as a Data disc. So, I had to browse through the folders as well. I'm reburning the disc without using BE Rebuilder to see if the same thing happens. I'm making sure that I have UDF 2.5 set.

Of course, kids got Rockband 2 for xmas, so it'll be a few minutes (hours) before I can check it.

OK, just checked. Burnt as a data disc for the PS3 again. I plled the BDMV and the Certificate folders into imgburn. Made sure UDF 2.5 was selected (imgburn will tell me that it looks like it is burning a blu-ray anyway and set that up). I burn it and it is a data disc.

I'll have another try at this in a few days, but until then, I'll be away. Thanks for a great program and it is quite possible that this is user error.

[rendez2k]

Like rendez2k my burned disc showed up as a Data disc. So, I had to browse through the folders as well. I'm reburning the disc without using BE Rebuilder to see if the same thing happens. I'm making sure that I have UDF 2.5 set.

Of course, kids got Rockband 2 for xmas, so it'll be a few minutes (hours) before I can check it.

Keep us updated. I used imgburn directly checking the udf setting and it didn't work. I thought I'd read somewhere about the ps3 not working with full backups but that may have been over the network. I'm running another full backup test now and letting brr do the burning this time. If it fails, I'll try a movie only backup.

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

For all PS3 users with the data disc problem, I think this caused because of usage of DVD media.

I will try tomorrow with both a DVD9 and a BD-RE.

Bye

[zeus163]

I've now used two Verbatim DVD-DL's and both show up as data discs. I'm away from the PS3 for a few days so I can't check until I get back on Saturday. I'm going to try a movie only when I get home since I can use Ripbot and and movie only and the disc is recognized.

I sure do love the ease of the program. Way to go jdobbs!

Should we move this line of wondering over to the bug thread?

[rendez2k]

Same here - full movies only show as data discs despite working in PowerDVD.. It appears it may be a PS3 issue as after a quick google search I came up with this (not directly related to this method of creating discs but the solution appears it might be the same) although I don't really understand what is being discussed

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b520d1/5

Maybe somebody with more knowledge can look at it and explain!

Edit: And a bit more... I use ProShow Gold to produce photography slideshows with accompanying music soundtracks. The latest version of PSG will create BD ISO images. The BDMV directory structure is all there, and the slideshow itself is rendered as a 1920x1080x60i (or 24p) .m2ts file. If I simply burn that to a regular DVD-R (instead of a BD-R) and pop it into the PS3, it shows up as a "data disc". Manually navigating into the BDMV/STREAMS/ directory and playing the 00000.m2ts file works (1920x1080 resolution, looks great).

I would like the PS3 to recognize the disc as video content and automatically begin playback (like a "real" DVD or BD would). So I've been playing with TSRemux, copying the MovieObject.bdmv and index.bdmv files from Nero and the AVC-HD calibration disc, etc. Now the PS3 does automatically start playback of the disc... one step closer!

[rendez2k]

OK, got a little further with this. It appears the issue is with the index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv. A forum post I found advised replacing these with 'nero' ones which I did. The disc does now show as a movie disc in the PS3 but then refuses to play (goes to a black screen after a few seconds of disc activity). I'm guessing these files may have to be edited in some way to make the PS3 happy....

I loaded both the newly created BD9 with replaced nero files (top image) and the original BR rip (bottom image) into BDEdit and there were a fair few differences - maybe something to do with the HDMV vs BD-J setting?

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i37/rendez2k/br.jpg

[turbojet]

jdobbs thanks for allowing the use of DTS and original AC3 file that I had asked about earlier.

I notice RESIZE in the ini and thought that might resize down to 720p but it doesn't seem to, what effect, if any, does it have?

Also is there any way to blank extras and menu buttons currently with any program?

[jdobbs]

RESIZE isn't enabled. It is there for future usage.

[piratburner]

I Thought this SW should have the same functionality as TsMuxer + x264 reencode, is it going to be only a encode SW ?

[jdobbs]

It analyzes, encodes, remuxes, and produces a backup of a BD... The concept is that it will be a BD version of DVD Rebuilder. Have you looked at it?

[jdobbs]

OK, got a little further with this. It appears the issue is with the index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv. A forum post I found advised replacing these with 'nero' ones which I did. The disc does now show as a movie disc in the PS3 but then refuses to play (goes to a black screen after a few seconds of disc activity). I'm guessing these files may have to be edited in some way to make the PS3 happy....

I loaded both the newly created BD9 with replaced nero files (top image) and the original BR rip (bottom image) into BDEdit and there were a fair few differences - maybe something to do with the HDMV vs BD-J setting?

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i37/rendez2k/br.jpg I know there are people reporting successful BD encodes for the PS3 using TSMUXER. I don't personally own a PS3 so I can't comment. But I thought they were using standard BD-5 and BD-9 discs.

[piratburner]

It analyzes, encodes, remuxes, and produces a backup of a BD... The concept is that it will be a BD version of DVD Rebuilder. Have you looked at it?

So if I want to muxing the mainmovie from BD and HD sound (without reencode, it takes to long time, and i have lot of harddrivesspace for my TviX :-) )
I still need to use TsMuxer or TsREmux to get mainmovie, HD-sound/subs to a m2ts file ?

[jdobbs]

No. It does it all within BD Rebuilder. All you should have to do with the output is play it. TSMUXER is run from within BD Rebuilder.

[piratburner]

No. It does it all within BD Rebuilder. All you should have to do with the output is play it. TSMUXER is run from within BD Rebuilder.

I going to rest it again, but I don't want to use any encoder (x264) just M2TS-muxing the mainmovie/sound/sub. And there is a problem with TrueHD in TsMuxeR, have you solved that in your app ?

[jdobbs]

Well sorta. TrueHD is always downconverted to standard AC3..

[bobrap]

Just wanted to chime in and add I did The Bucket List (movie only) to BD-5 and it plays just great in PS3. :thanks:

[jdobbs]

Just wanted to chime in and add I did The Bucket List (movie only) to BD-5 and it plays just great in PS3. :thanks:No issues with it saying it was a Data disc? That's interesting.

[piratburner]

Well sorta. TrueHD is always downconverted to standard AC3..

OK ;-) so if I wan't the video untouched together with HD sound in a m2ts file, then this is not the SW I shall use ? So I continue using tsMuxeR & TsREmux and hope for a update on these 2 SW:-)

[rendez2k]

No issues with it saying it was a Data disc? That's interesting.

Are movie only discs technically different to full discs? I've tried all kind of tricks to get my bd5 test disc to work. I've got as far as the ps3 recognizing the disc as a proper movie but then get an unsupported movie error.

[jdobbs]

OK ;-) so if I wan't the video untouched together with HD sound in a m2ts file, then this is not the SW I shall use ? So I continue using tsMuxeR & TsREmux and hope for a update on these 2 SW:-) Sorry -- but it just isn't practical to make a BD-5 or BD-9 backup of a disc and keep those huge audio streams (especially since the difference isn't typically detectable in double blind tests). I can make BD Rebuilder do it (and probably will), but I'm not inclined to do so during the beta testing.

[jdobbs]

Are movie only discs technically different to full discs? I've tried all kind of tricks to get my bd5 test disc to work. I've got as far as the ps3 recognizing the disc as a proper movie but then get an unsupported movie error. Not in format. There is the possibility of java code in full discs (menus etc) that isn't on movie-only. But the disc structure and format is exactly the same.

[zeus163]

When I get back, I'm going to try movie only. I think that will work. I know it works with ripbot, but I'd like to preserve the menus as well. I'm hoping we can figure out why a whole back-up isn't working quite right with the PS3--I'm sure it is a PS3 thing. If it is the editing of the files index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv, would BD-RB be able to edit those files before burning? If we can figure out what the magic files are and how they need to be editted, maybe a check mark can be added to BD-RB that let's the program know the disc is being created for a PS3. Then you start to wonder if those discs would play on a regular blu-ray player as well with those edited files. So many thoughts going through my head right now and I'm away from my machines with blu-ray playing capabilities. Ugh.

I will also try the disc I created at my in-laws. They got a blu-ray player for xmas.

[bobrap]

No issues with it saying it was a Data disc? That's interesting.

No sir. Burned the disc from outside BD Rebuilder using Imgburn. Switched file system to UDF and made sure the revision was set to 2.5. Will try a full disc this evening.:D

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi!

A feature request:
For backup to BD-R, it would be nice to choose to not reencode choosen Video/Audio streams.

For example in some cases its enough to reencode extras, leave out some audio of the main movie and reencode (or not) audio of the main movie. So there is no need to reencode the main movie itself.

Best regards

[jdobbs]

You can do that with audio, but you really have no choice with video. The maximum bitrate is too high on the original for BD-5 or BD-9 and it freezes/stutters if it isn't reencoded with a lower max.

[Chefkoch_ico]

You can do that with audio, but you really have no choice with video. The maximum bitrate is too high on the original for BD-5 or BD-9 and it freezes/stutters if it isn't reencoded with a lower max.

I meant for BD-R Single Layer 25GB. There this should not be a problem.

[piratburner]

Hi!

A feature request:
For backup to BD-R, it would be nice to choose to not reencode choosen Video/Audio streams.

For example in some cases its enough to reencode extras, leave out some audio of the main movie and reencode (or not) audio of the main movie. So there is no need to reencode the main movie itself.

Best regards

I like that :D , while I'm using a TviX I would only demux main video and sound/subs a prefer. Then a have the best quality :D

[NobbyNobbs]

As you came out with the beta, just as I got a BD drive for my new PC, I just had to click on the "donate" button in DVD-RB again, just as a thank you for giving us a new toy to play with :D

[jdobbs]

Thanks. Much appreciated. :)

[Sophocles]

I have no complaints except reading through your bug thread where those who would rather debate than contribute have found their way. This is part of the reason that I finally stopped beta testing DiVx H.264.


On a plus note Donald and I have together completed 4 BD movies with success. I re-encoded an art film classic;) "The Devils Rejects" with High Quality slower encode settings. The movie has an estimated run time of 2:09 and it took just under 4 hours.

Nice work. I don't suppose it will convert HD DVD to BD?

[jikchung]

I don't suppose it will convert HD DVD to BD?

I hope that it does, I have a stack of those to convert...

[Sophocles]

These are some questions asked in another forum.


Quick question on the installation. I don't understand on the video decoder configuration on FFDSHOW that MPEG2 decoding is supposed to be enabled. Well on Codecs, MPEG2 format is selected, Decoder is libmpeg2. Is this it? Or I have to check the checkbox "DVD decoding" at the bottom also? I have the latest FFDSHOW revision 2527 (Dec 19, 2008).

Regarding Matroska Splitter (it's called Haali Media Splitter 1.8.122.18), choosing the default settings at the installation is fine? So Matroska handles mkv file? Doesn't FFDSHOW already support it?

So BD-RB converts to BD or AVCHD format? And these can be burned onto DVD5/9 and played on BD standalone player, correct?

Do you know any free players that can play BD?

I assume I will get the PowerDVD BD software if I buy the retail BD burner? If I buy one from newegg as OEM, then no software, no connectors, nada, nothing? I'm not crazy in catching up with technology. Their prices will soon fall in another year or two.

Hey, all these questions means I'm going from a DVD enthusiast to a BD newbie - I'm going back to first grade. Soon I will be catching up to ya'll. I will learn the details of BD structure as I did with DVD structure to do some complex reauthoring.
Edit/Delete Message

[jdobbs]

Quick question on the installation. I don't understand on the video decoder configuration on FFDSHOW that MPEG2 decoding is supposed to be enabled. Well on Codecs, MPEG2 format is selected, Decoder is libmpeg2. Is this it? Yes.
Or I have to check the checkbox "DVD decoding" at the bottom also? Nope.
Regarding Matroska Splitter (it's called Haali Media Splitter 1.8.122.18), choosing the default settings at the installation is fine? So Matroska handles mkv file? Doesn't FFDSHOW already support it? This is needed so BD-RB can read M2TS files during encoding via the DirectShowSource() AVISYNTH funtion.
So BD-RB converts to BD or AVCHD format? And these can be burned onto DVD5/9 and played on BD standalone player, correct?No. It converts from BD-25/50 to BD-5/9/25. But yes, the purpose is to support standalone playback.
Do you know any free players that can play BD?I don't. But I'm no expert on that.
I assume I will get the PowerDVD BD software if I buy the retail BD burner?Not necessarily.

[rack04]

No. It converts from BD-25/50 to BD-5/9/25. But yes, the purpose is to support standalone playback.

I think there is still alot of discussion about whether or not tsMuxer creates a BD-5/9/25 or AVCHD. Supposedly tsMuxeR uses typical AVCHD output from Nero Vision, including index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv.

For those who have been successful with BD Rebuilder, does your standalone player show the disk being played is an AVCHD or BD?

[jdobbs]

the index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv files from TSMUXER aren't used by BD Rebuilder. So the discussion would be only academic anyway. It uses the ones from the original disc.

[writersblock29]

@Rack04

The disks show up as BD on both stand-alone players I've tested my BD Rebuilder backups on. Arcsoft Totalmedia Theatre also sees them as BD. I'm no expert on set top players, so I'm not sure if there's a model or two out there that would see them as something different. But if it plays and behaves like your original disk, does it matter?

[rack04]

the index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv files from TSMUXER aren't used by BD Rebuilder. So the discussion would be only academic anyway. It uses the ones from the original disc.

Thanks for the info jdobbs. Is there anything that changes in the tsMuxeR Blu-ray Disc output to use the original disc .bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv files or is it a simple overwrite?

[BobZhome]

For those who have been successful with BD Rebuilder, does your standalone player show the disk being played is an AVCHD or BD?

My Sony BDP-S350 lists my backups as a AVCHD.

[jdobbs]

Some of the Sonys have a strange way of listing it. If you do a BD-9 it says BD-ROM, if you do a BD-5 is says AVCHD -- even it it is the exact same content. I'm guessing you put in a BD-5?

[BobZhome]

Some of the Sonys have a strange way of listing it. If you do a BD-9 it says BD-ROM, if you do a BD-5 is says AVCHD -- even it it is the exact same content. I'm guessing you put in a BD-5?

Nope, I used a Memorex(RITEK D01) DVD+R DL. Which gets pretty good quality scores with my burner.

[jdobbs]

Interesting. Your player, then, probably just calls anything that uses the red laser "AVCHD".

[Furiousflea]

My Sony BDP-S350 lists my backups as a AVCHD.

Hope you don't mind me asking, but does that play your menus ok maybe it's treating it as AVCHD and not allowing the menu if that is the case.

Sorry for my rude interrupting of the thread I'm looking to purchase this player.

[MadMonkey57]

@Rack04

The disks show up as BD on both stand-alone players I've tested my BD Rebuilder backups on. Arcsoft Totalmedia Theatre also sees them as BD. I'm no expert on set top players, so I'm not sure if there's a model or two out there that would see them as something different. But if it plays and behaves like your original disk, does it matter?

My Sony BDP-S350 lists my backups as a AVCHD.

Some of the Sonys have a strange way of listing it. If you do a BD-9 it says BD-ROM, if you do a BD-5 is says AVCHD -- even it it is the exact same content. I'm guessing you put in a BD-5?

Nope, I used a Memorex(RITEK D01) DVD+R DL. Which gets pretty good quality scores with my burner.

Interesting. Your player, then, probably just calls anything that uses the red laser "AVCHD".

I can comment on the way the Panasonic BD35 behaves... So far, i fed it only with red laser DVD-5:

- output from tsmuxer (i.e hybrid AVCHD/BD) : well accepted and reported as an AVCHD.
- output from Adobre Encore CS4 (i.e BD) and probably other commercial software as well : reported as an unsupported disc
- output from Adobe Encore CS4 patched so that index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv are AVCHD compliant (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1229828#post1229828) (i.e hybrid AVCHD/BD) : well accepted and reported as an AVCHD

It's a pity I have to go the "hybrid way" but it's my only option so far...

[jdobbs]

output from Adobe Encore CS4 patched so that index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv are AVCHD compliant (i.e hybrid AVCHD/BD) : well accepted and reported as an AVCHD
My guess is, though, that it wouldn't work with a disc that uses BD-JAVA... have you tried any of those? Typically you'll see a "Loading..." message at some point on those.

[MadMonkey57]

My guess is, though, that it wouldn't work with a disc that uses BD-JAVA... have you tried any of those? Typically you'll see a "Loading..." message at some point on those.

No, haven't tried (I don't think I own a BD-JAVA disc...). Nevertheless, it wouldn't be much of a problem coz I'm primarily aiming at main movie only backup.

[zeus163]

Hey!

I haven't been following the whole disc process for the PS3 for a day or so, but wanted to let jdobbs know that a donation was sent your way. Thanks for taking on this herculean task!

[smnckl]

@jdobbs

A small(?) request. On the movie-only backups made using your excellent BD-RB app, the movie ends and then it loops back and starts from the beginning. I am sure that there are people who like the old 8-track continuous loop.
Would it be possible for you to add a static menu, a la ConvertXtoDVD, and have the player return to that when the movie ends? Possibly paused with a VCR "Play" button image on the screen or like ConvertXtoDVD which plays a 10-15 second clip of the movie with audio.

Just say NO if it is too much coding to implement. 8-)

James

[jdobbs]

I'll do that at some point. But I first want to just make where it is more stable rather than add more features (with more bugs).

[smnckl]

I'll do that at some point. But I first want to just make where it is more stable rather than add more features (with more bugs).

Thanks for considering the suggestion. I understand the situation and am happy to wait.

Great job till now... have only had one issue so far when I messed up either Haali's or Avisynth when I did a disc cleanup, removing lots of other beta apps that I no longer use. The error message was

[16:52:57] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [16:55:31] Collecting video information [00001]
- Error [01:-1] returned from encoder. Retrying.
- Error [02:-1] returned from encoder. Retrying.
- Error [03:-1] returned from encoder. Retrying.
- Reached retry limit. Aborting.
[16:55:33] - Failed video encode, aborted


My question here is, does your trap routine recognize which app failed? If so, could it output a hint as to what the user needs to do to rectify the issue? If the trap does not go further, just forget I asked. :devil:

Thanks.

James

[jdobbs]

Yes. That error means X264 failed in the encode attempt. The command line uses is stored in the applications path in a file called "LASTCMD.TXT." If you run that command directly from a CMD window you can see what the actual X264 error is.

[smnckl]

Yes. That error means X264 failed in the encode attempt. The command line uses is stored in the applications path in a file called "LASTCMD.TXT." If you run that command directly from a CMD window you can see what the actual X264 error is.

Thanks for the feedback. The next time it happens (which has been only once so far) I will make sure to look there.

James