Mainconcept Reference - always crashing!?

[odditory]

I have been evaluating Mainconcept Reference and have yet to get a successful encode out of it - anyone else have that experience?

Even just trying to convert 5 minutes worth of MPEG2 from a DVD to either another MPEG2 file at a lower bitrate (to test DVD -> DVD transcoding) or MPEG2 to H.264 main profile.. the app either just altogether crashes during the encode, or says its finished but then the output files are 0 bytes.

Any ideas? Before anyone tells me "just use x264", keep in mind I need batch encoding features, because I have zillions of DVD's stored in VIDEO_TS folders on my HD's that I want to batch-convert to H.264.

Thanks for any advice..

[Dark Shikari]

Any ideas? Before anyone tells me "just use x264", keep in mind I need batch encoding features, because I have zillions of DVD's stored in VIDEO_TS folders on my HD's that I want to batch-convert to H.264.Many many GUIs for x264 support batch converting features, including MeGUI and others.

[Atak_Snajpera]

just use x264 :)

[DeathTheSheep]

Reference worked for me when I tried it. Then again, I never used input MPEG2--maybe it's a problem there. Try including an intermediate step--feed, pipe, or convert the MPEG2 into an intermediary stream first, then feed the result to Mainconcept. It'll take some scripting to get it to work in any sort of batch environment, though.

The quality is well worth it, as is the speed. But of course, if all else fails and you absolutely need AVC...

just use x264. :)

[akupenguin]

Now that name is either confusing, pretentious, or both. JM is the reference codec, Mainconcept is not.

[DeathTheSheep]

You mean "Mainconcept Reference AVC" aka Elecard Studio AVC 2.0, right? Either way, I agree; that's quite the stilted naming scheme there.

[guada2]

Hello odditory,

the output files are 0 bytes.

Perhaps you are right....
Can you tell me the Preset which you have to use?and profile for codec MPEG1/2?

Thank you.

[odditory]

Update - I didn't realize they released a Mainconcept Reference update, v1.1.1, a few days ago. I was running 1.0 - what a piece of crap that was.

Anyway the v1.1.1 trial hasn't crashed on me so far, but its still full of quirks.

I notice people are always eager to put down any program/codec whose name isn't x264, but as soon as I find Reference's two killer features ((batch encoding and watch folder) in another GUI, I'd love to try.

I've tried MeGUI and its still a multi-step process. I have hundreds of DVD's I want to xcode to H.264 and I don't have time to fiddle one DVD at a time with the piss poor GUI's I've seen that do utilize x264. Reference lets me pick an IFO file of a title set I want as input, then specify an output file, and thats it, no demuxing b.s. or intermediary files.

If Reference's IQ is somehow not as good as x264 at the same settings, thats just fine by me if it means I save weeks worth of man hours.

Anyone know of something I can look at besides MeGUI?

[DeathTheSheep]

Actually, the encoding quality of Mainconcept/Elecard is now quite good, so no worries there.

Yes, it's a decent enough GUI. But when a GUI tries to do it all, it ends up doing it rather poorly, hence the bugs present in this and Nero's GUI, etc.

[CruNcher]

Maybe you should give Mediacoder a quick look then :)
but it's not easy to configure the Web based configuration is for sure not as nice as something as Elecard and Mainconcept provide, but it's free and works (most of the times) :)

[guada2]

Version 1.0 functions perfectly in mpeg2.

However, i noted a the problem coming from Preset: Blu-ray Disc/HD DVD (high quality/HD to consume MPEG-2), Profile: Blu-ray/Blu-rayHD with MPEG Transport Stream and not Elementary.

Bye.

[odditory]

Version 1.0 functions perfectly in mpeg2.

However, i noted a the problem coming from Preset: Blu-ray Disc/HD DVD (high quality/HD to consume MPEG-2), Profile: Blu-ray/Blu-rayHD with MPEG Transport Stream and not Elementary.

Bye.

I didn't understand your statement. Are you talking about a need to avoid Elementary as file type? I noticed an issue myself where if I pick Elementary rather than say MP4 when converting MPEG2 to H.264, the filesize is almost twice as big in Elementary mode as it is in MP4 mode. Strange.

[delacroixp]

Reference worked for me when I tried it. Then again, I never used input MPEG2--maybe it's a problem there. Try including an intermediate step--feed, pipe, or convert the MPEG2 into an intermediary stream first, then feed the result to Mainconcept. It'll take some scripting to get it to work in any sort of batch environment, though.

The quality is well worth it, as is the speed. But of course, if all else fails and you absolutely need AVC...

just use x264. :)


According to Fourth Annual MSU MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Video Codec Comparison (http://compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/mpeg-4_avc_h264_2007_en.html) ...
Mainconcept pretty much outperforms the competition by roughly 10% .
4.4.1.1 High Quality preset
MainConcept demonstrates the best quality for all sequences. The top three codecs for this preset are the following:
1. MainConcept
2. x264
3. Intel IPP
The top three codecs also demonstrate acceptable bitrate handling.

4.4.1.2 High Speed preset
MainConcept demonstrates the best quality for all sequences. The top three codecs for this preset are the following:
1. MainConcept
2. x264
3. Intel IPP
4. XviD
5,6 AMD, Artemis x264 (the places depends on Y-PSNR or Y-SSIM as quality metric)
The first three codecs also demonstrate acceptable bitrate handling.




I notice people are always eager to put down any program/codec whose name isn't x264, but as soon as I find Reference's two killer features ((batch encoding and watch folder) in another GUI, I'd love to try.

Anyone know of something I can look at besides MeGUI?

AutoMKV (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113811) certainly has my vote with not inconsiderable batch capabilities... no watch folders though.
(AutoMKV 0.95 beta out shortly... perhaps watch folder for RC1)


:):devil::D
Pascal

[Dark Shikari]

Mainconcept pretty much outperforms the competition by roughly 10% .The comparison was crap--using an old version of x264, no modern AQ (which boosts subjective quality unbelievably, etc).

I also remember that Mainconcept only beat x264 in a single High Quality test--its main benefit was on High Speed mode.

[CruNcher]

I hope they reported to Aku what was going wrong on the LOTR Sample that made me a little nervous reading the test actually :)

[delacroixp]

I hope they reported to Aku what was going wrong on the LOTR Sample that made me a little nervous reading the test actually :)

The comparison was crap--using an old version of x264, no modern AQ (which boosts subjective quality unbelievably, etc).

I also remember that Mainconcept only beat x264 in a single High Quality test--its main benefit was on High Speed mode.
I'm sure that you are right though MainConcept has probably improved in the interim also !

That said, MainConcept AG (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/96029/index.html) is a $ multi-million organisation with access to many of the top brains in the country and financial clout to help "grease the wheels" too.
If German motor engineering is anything to go by and if it is in any way comparable to software engineering... the product should be pretty stellar !
It is, however, unfair to include X264 in a comparison against all these heavy-hitters in the first place... hardly a level playing field !

It's more like David and Goliath.


:):devil::D
Pascal

[Dark Shikari]

I'm sure that you are right though MainConcept has probably improved in the interim also !

That said, MainConcept AG (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/96029/index.html) is a $ multi-million organisation with access to many of the top brains in the country and financial clout to help "grease the wheels" too.
If German motor engineering is anything to go by and if it is in any way comparable to software engineering... the product should be pretty stellar !
It is, however, unfair to include X264 in a comparison against all these heavy-hitters in the first place... hardly a level playing field !

It's more like David and Goliath.


:):devil::D
PascalEh, I'd say x264 has the advantage. We have akupenguin.

And while Mainconcept has perhaps improved, I highly doubt it matches the level of improvement of the past few months--the new AQ and the motion search speedup from r704.

[CruNcher]

Pascal ehh the most magic behind Mainconcepts Codec (today) comes not from Germany but from Russia and that's all DivX Magic now (at least their logo will be put on it for the consumer level), we soon gonna see that ;)


Eh, I'd say x264 has the advantage. We have akupenguin.

Dark don't be so shy you work is also great, all those contributors who improve X264 are needed and do a great part of theirs to make it more and more stable and efficient :)

[DeathTheSheep]

...the motion search speedup from r704.

You mean 717, right? 704 just avoids a division. You patched that one yourself, remember? :)

[Dark Shikari]

You mean 717, right? 704 just avoids a division. You patched that one yourself, remember? :)No, r717 is ESA-only. r696 was what I was thinking of.

[DeathTheSheep]

Psht, I just tested that. For my base-command-line, 680-ish with improved subme7, me-prepass, and satd, with the same settings, was under 30% slower than 721 without satd, prepass, etc. Both compiled by yours truly with custom make fprofile march core2 gcc4.3rev6.

:devil:

PS: Yes, 30% is a huge number. But for one thing, the quality is worth it. No threads/umh/8x8 non-determinisms for me, either. No, the true test is when the old patches are updated.

[shon3i]

The comparison was crap--using an old version of x264, no modern AQ (which boosts subjective quality unbelievably, etc).Totaly incorrect, even with new x264 AQ, mainconcept produce better visual quality for same size and aslo have more complex AQ/Psy optimization, and much more speeds.

Both Mainconcept and Ateme (including Nero Recode 3) now produces better visual quality comparing x264 with new AQ algorithm

IMHO

[Sagittaire]

Totaly incorrect, even with new x264 AQ, mainconcept produce better visual quality for same size and aslo have more complex AQ/Psy optimization, and much more speeds.

Both Mainconcept and Ateme (including Nero Recode 3) now produces better visual quality comparing x264 with new AQ algorithm

IMHO

Actually the only real advantage for Ateme/Elecard H264 codec is the grain retention.

Elecard use a really simple AQ (Lumi/Contrast/Complexity masking) like Libavcodec.

[IgorC]

I'm sure that you are right though MainConcept has probably improved in the interim also !

That said, MainConcept AG (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/96029/index.html) is a $ multi-million organisation with access to many of the top brains in the country and financial clout to help "grease the wheels" too.
If German motor engineering is anything to go by and if it is in any way comparable to software engineering... the product should be pretty stellar !
It is, however, unfair to include X264 in a comparison against all these heavy-hitters in the first place... hardly a level playing field !

It's more like David and Goliath.


:):devil::D
Pascal

Pascal ehh the most magic behind Mainconcepts Codec (today) comes not from Germany but from Russia and that's all DivX Magic now (at least their logo will be put on it for the consumer level), we soon gonna see that ;)


It's only one russian programmer. And he is a member of this forum.

Sorry for offtopic : And I don't want to talk about my russian family tree that almost entirely lives in Germany after second world war. Nobody of them has russian second name.

[delacroixp]

Pascal ehh the most magic behind Mainconcepts Codec (today) comes not from Germany but from Russia and that's all DivX Magic now
(at least their logo will be put on it for the consumer level), we soon gonna see that ;)

It's only one russian programmer. And he is a member of this forum.

Sorry for offtopic : And I don't want to talk about my russian family tree that almost entirely lives in Germany after second world war.
Nobody of them has russian second name.
Nothing wrong with the Russians... they've
had many years under Communism to churn out some of the best engineering students (their business skills are probably a bit lacking though).
I just wish that MKV (http://www.matroska.org/) (also cosmopolitan Russian-ish) would get their act together, come to the party and bring their menu tools along too.

Mainconcept is, perhaps, not the only competition on the block since I gather that Digital Rapids Studio AVC Encoder (http://www.digital-rapids.com/Products/IndividualProducts/Stream%20Software/StudioAVC.aspx) costs '4 times more' ... at $ 9000.
I should imagine that it is only really usefull to major film companies and multi-national corporations.


:):devil::D
Pascal

[CruNcher]

Yep Atemes Codec is very good but it advances are in Broadcast,Vod and Iptv as Low Bitrate is were their superior compared to Mainconcept (runs away from IgorC), tough for sure it would also be nice to see some Blu-Rays or HD-DVDs mastered with their codec, but that field is still owned by Mainconcept (DivX) and Cinemacraft mostly :)

[musicman2311]

not sure this info helps you at all, but i have good experience converting AVC and MPEG2 to VC1 for blu ray using 1.1.1

[delacroixp]

Yep Atemes Codec is very good but it advances are in Broadcast, Vod and Iptv as Low Bitrate is where they're superior compared to Mainconcept (runs away from IgorC), tough for sure it.
Would also be nice to see some Blu-Rays or HD-DVDs mastered with their codec, but that field is still owned by Mainconcept (DivX) and Cinemacraft mostly :)
Well, perhaps, X264 and MainConcept are incomparable.

X264 is geared to transcoding [ie, from Mpeg2, MP4 (downsizing) or .ts (HDTV capture)].
MainConcept is geared to encoding uncompressed video [ie, Hollywood, Apple iTunes and professional home movies (not HD Mpeg2 Camcorders)].

X264 has a virtual monopoly on transcoding movies and it's a shame that in the one test X264 should have run circles around the opposition (Lord of the Rings) ... it didn't !


:):devil::D
Pascal

[Dark Shikari]

Well, perhaps, X264 and MainConcept are incomparable.

X264 is geared to transcoding [ie, from Mpeg2, MP4 (downsizing) or .ts (HDTV capture)].
MainConcept is geared to encoding uncompressed video [ie, Hollywood, Apple iTunes and professional home movies (not HD Mpeg2 Camcorders)].

X264 has a virtual monopoly on transcoding movies and it's a shame that in the one test X264 should have run circles around the opposition (Lord of the Rings) ... it didn't !

Nothing to do with what its "geared towards"; x264 is better at both. There are plenty of raw sources online to test with. Its what they're used for, not what they were designed for.