post vhs capture techniques

[jriker1]

I have been given card blonch to get as clean of a VHS transfer as I can. What I have so far:

- 1 3.6GHz (overclocked) Intel Quad Core CPU
- 2 GB RAM
- 2 TB Hard Drive Space
- Canopus ADVC110 DV Capture Device
- Mitsubishi SVHS
- S-Video Cable to the Canopus (video)
- Dual RCA cables to the Canopus (audio)
- Firewire connection from Canopus to PC
- Pinnacle Studio 11 Ultimate

OK, so I have the above. As mentioned sky's the limit for tools to cleanly capture and cleanup the videos. My company has about 100 videos and they initially want them cleanly converted to AVI until they figure out how to store them perminantetly.

So my basic question, what is the best tool to use to get the video into the PC. Is Pinnacle Studio adequate? Wasn't sure if the tool to get it into the PC was that relevant since it's just a DV stream.

Second, I have read a lot about chroma effects, and interlaced video, etc. Not sure what issues I should expect bringing NTSC video over with the above tools, however would imagine from experience in this forum, the issues are static and already known. I have been looking at tools like Neat Video to clean the video, however how about the other possible video effect issues during the transfer if I can expect any. What kind of clean-up techniques should I have to do after getting the video into the PC and what software could I buy or use? I spend a lot of time with AviSynth scripts, however when they offer to pay, why not take advantage if it's going to make it easier.

Thanks.

JR

[yup]

Hi jriker1!
Pinnacle Studio can work only with compressed format (DV, MPEG).
1) You could capture use VirtualDub or VirtualVCR with lossless codec (Huffyuv or Lagarith, especially Lagarith for Your Quad processor).
2) Clean up video using motion compensated approach (MVTools plugin, MVDegrain2i script).
3) Convert to DV and working in Studio.
More time You will spend for cleaning not for capture.
yup.

[2Bdecided]

The most important thing is to use a Time Base Corrector to stabilise the video before you capture it. This can't be done in software! The AVC110 doesn't have one built in - does the Mitsubishi VCR?


Also DV is 13GB per hour. Lossless is much more (at least double, usually more with noisy sources), and the ADVC110 is a DV native device, so going to lossless gains you nothing.

For someone who has another capture card, I'd love to see a back-to-back comparison of a lossless vs DV based restoration route, all other things being equal. I can't believe lossless is worth the hassle and cost, especially if the planned work flow is capture > wait a few years > restore. Far too much data to store.

Cheers,
David.

[jriker1]

Hi jriker1!
Pinnacle Studio can work only with compressed format (DV, MPEG).
1) You could capture use VirtualDub or VirtualVCR with lossless codec (Huffyuv or Lagarith, especially Lagarith for Your Quad processor).
2) Clean up video using motion compensated approach (MVTools plugin, MVDegrain2i script).
3) Convert to DV and working in Studio.
More time You will spend for cleaning not for capture.
yup.

Thanks for the replies so far. Looks like I have two so far that conflict with each other as far as opinions. Probably a subjective thing. Is not the ADVC110 considered a DV device so anything that comes in from it would require being in DV format? I just assumed that was the case. If I can use VirtualDub and Lagarith I can take a look at see if there is any noticable difference between that and DV. I read that the ADVC110 does an excellent job importing content however I am always open to test different options.

Thanks.

JR

[Blue_MiSfit]

The Canopus does do an excellent job of converting analog stuff to DV, from what I've heard.

However, it's still DV.

DV isn't too bad, but it does throw away quite a bit. Lossless throws away nothing.

Its sort of like recording an LP into a pretty high quality lossy format - like AC3 for example, versus FLAC.

Some difference? Sure. Massively significant? Probably not. But if you've got Carte Blanche, why not go all the way? :)

~MiSfit

[yup]

I agree with 2Bdecided about TBC, I use TBC-100 model. 1 years ago I have not very good results with S-VHs VCR JVC HR-S8955EE and ADVC300. Recently I captured this VHS with Panasonic DMR-ES35V, time base corrector TBC-100 and Pinnacle MovieBoard Plus 700-PCI with better results, also not forget about cables. I see difference even on source (not processing) video. Try and test.
yup.

[jriker1]

I appreciate the advice on the TBC, however they are to costly. Going to read a bit more to find out what they really will do for me, however adding another $400+ to what I alrady put into VHS conversion equipment, acoustic research audio and S-Video cables, 1.5TB of additional drive space, and software is getting to be a bit much.

JR

[2Bdecided]

You should have bought either a deck or a capture card with a TBC built in. You originally said "the sky's the limit" - obviously the sky has fallen! ;)

For just capturing DV format video, you don't need a high spec PC, or any special software. People were doing this a decade ago, and WinDV makes a bit perfect copy for free. Also "expensive" cables are just a con. Good shielding is necessary, but silly prices are just that: silly.

As for post-processing, there is lots of great advice on this board, and here a good spec PC will really save time. Fix the chroma offset, calm the noise, edit, encode and author to DVD is a typical workflow.

If the tapes have TB errors, then without a TBC, you are wasting your time. The "wobble" due to time-base errors will be permanently imprinted into your digital captures, and there's not a lot you can do about it. Here's a couple of good examples with a test pattern, where the effect is very clear...

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic289311-60.html#1450793
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic289311-150.html#1456802

...you'll note that some equipment comes with a TBC without even telling you (certain DVD recorders, and most miniDV camcorders with analogue input). You'll also see that some professional TBCs are useless for typical VHS TBC errors.

Cheers,
David.

P.S. examples from a normal VHS tape (i.e. not a test pattern)...
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic289311-180.html#1723673
...so if you have a suitable miniDV or Digital8 deck already, you can use that in place of the ADVC and be glad you were so lucky. If not...:(

[jriker1]

Thanks for the detailed reply 2B. Not out of funding, more funding is for software. Company gets funny on the hardware side after all I bought. The typical thing in a corporation. Buy something non-standard from everyone else's desktops and they start restricting things. Lucky I could even get a desktop as opposed to a laptop. Can you imagine doing video rendering and cleanup on a laptop hard drive? Wake me in a few years when the rendering is done. :)

From what I can see to date, the video is clean so either the short video cables and S-Video connections are clean, or the Mitsubishi VCR provides a strong signal. Only issue is some color issues in areas more related to the video's age and tape quality than anything else.

Gonna look into your suggestion of fixing the chroma offset if it's an issue and have just purchased Neat Video Pro for Sony Vegas for cleanup. Slow but that tool rocks all else for cleaning up snow and other artifacts in your video.

Thanks

JR

[2Bdecided]

With appropriate noise samples and settings, Neat Video works very well. Don't overuse it - noise that's visible on a PC screen (especially, but not only, watching frame-by-frame) will be invisible on a TV. Keep a little noise (as long as it doesn't wreck the subsequent encoding). Don't make everything look like plastic (by too much filtering).

Cheers,
David.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Words from the wise. Don't be like everyone else in the "pro" field and burn all "noise" (details), and "sharpen" (halo).

~MiSfit