H264 with Flash Video

[Jaxel]

I just heard that Adobe now offers h264 compression support with their flash video player. Does this mean that I can now offer my videos to my viewers in high quality flash?

The videos I currently offer are in x264-mkv:
http://www.crookedjester.com/_matchvids/_demovids/na2.intro.UnknownTitle.mkv

A lot of my viewers complain that their computers aren't powerful enough to play the mkvs; so I have been forced to upload my vids to youtube (which I hate). So if I can encode them into FLV myself and make them available to my viewers, I would be much happier...

So my quesiton of course... is there a good encoder program to convert my MKVs into HIGH QUALITY FLV? Or even better, is there a VFW encoder that I can use with VirtualDubMod the same way as I use Sharktooth's VFW x264 encoder?

[clsid]

Use the search. There are some topics about this.

[Jaxel]

Most of the posts around here completely confuse me... I have searched, but I'm still confused.

I'm just looking for a VFW codec that I can use with VirtualDubMod the same way I use Sharktooth's x264 VFW.

As well... I'm looking for a high quality FLV encoding that is comparable to my x264 encodes... not something low quality like Youtube.

[clsid]

Adobe does not use the FLV container for H.264. They use the MP4 container.

The Flash version that support H.264 video is still in beta test phase. That means that most people don't have it yet.

[Jaxel]

Ah... so the mp4 container wont play in flash video like youtube?

[Schrade]

Adobe does not use the FLV container for H.264. They use the MP4 container.

The Flash version that support H.264 video is still in beta test phase. That means that most people don't have it yet.

Hmm it's not in beta.. it's been released.

See the "Update" at the top of this page: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer9/

Plus there's a link to go to the official Flashplayer download page which has the latest version that supports h.264.

Ah... so the mp4 container wont play in flash video like youtube?

The new version of Flash that I pointed to above does indeed support playing h.264/AAC in an mp4 container.

[Jaxel]

Sweet... so what can I use to encode my videos into h264 mp4/flv?

When I searched, I saw all this "VP6/7" stuff... and that confused me.

[clsid]

Hmm it's not in beta.. it's been released.

See the "Update" at the top of this page: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer9/

Plus there's a link to go to the official Flashplayer download page which has the latest version that supports h.264.



The new version of Flash that I pointed to above does indeed support playing h.264/AAC in an mp4 container.
A quote from that page: "This is a beta, not a final release."

[bond]

Jaxel, you posted in the wrong forum and didnt use search

:readrule::search:

striked and moved

[squid808]

The official release (not beta) of Flash Player 9, including H.264 and HE-AAC, is available at this URL:

http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/

A quote from that page: "This is a beta, not a final release."

[fields_g]

The official release (not beta) of Flash Player 9, including H.264 and HE-AAC, is available at this URL:

http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/

This is correct.
Flash Player 9 Update 3
Version 9.0.115.0
Released December 3, 2007
NOT BETA.... and not pushed out over the Flash player update either.

I do media encoding for online courses at a university. Given the wide spread acceptance of h.264 on so many platforms, this will let us encode once, and show on your device... whatever that happens to be.

Additionally, as stated earlier, h.264 in flash is meant to be in the MP4 container. However, using some of the basic Adobe provided SWF players out there, MP4 cannot be selected as a usable file type. Until these players start accepting MP4 extensions, you can rename them with FLV and do some testing. I wouldn't recommend keeping them this way any longer than you have to!

[Schrade]

A quote from that page: "This is a beta, not a final release."
Of course. But you neglected to read what I said. Follow the link I pointed out.

http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer


File size: 1,457 K
Download Time Estimate: 2 minutes @ 56K modem
Version: 9,0,115,0
Browser: Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape, and Opera
Date Posted: 12/3/2007
Language: English

Notice the version.

[Jaxel]

So umm... anyone know of any good FLV encoders that work with VirtualDubMod? doesnt have to be h264.

[Ranguvar]

FLV is a container, not a codec.

AFAIK, there's no way to save into FLV from a VfW app.


Just so you know though, FLV typically contains H.263 video (stuff from YouTube is Sorenson H.263) and MP3 audio. Using Google, I'm sure one could find a good VfW H.263 enccoder. Wait, actually, ffdshow has such a function.

You'd just need to mux into FLV outside of VirtualDubMod.

mencoder can mux into FLV I think...

[clsid]

Avidemux can create FLV files.

If you want to use H.264 video then you must totally forget about FLV (which can only contain H.263/Sorenson or VP6 video) and create a MP4 file (that contains H.264 video and AAC audio).

[fields_g]

When I was playing around flash h.264, I was amazed at the speed comparison to VP6. When encoding to VP6, it only utilized a single core in my quad core machine as opposed to h.264 using most of the capacity of all 4 cores. You can use some really insane x264 settings and still come out quite far ahead in encoding time.

[smok3]

jaxel, if your mkvs are h.264 + aac then you don't need to reencode, just remux to mp4 container - edit: i just checked it with avidemux on your mkv: video set to copy, audio to reencode to aac, container mp4 - plays fine with flash9.
---
if you want flv (vp6) then check shodan's page;
http://sh0dan.blogspot.com/2006/09/command-line-flash-8-flv-encoding.html
(commercial solutions for vp6 would be adobe media encoder, flix and more i guess...)

[audyovydeo]

Additionally, as stated earlier, h.264 in flash is meant to be in the MP4 container. However, using some of the basic Adobe provided SWF players out there, MP4 cannot be selected as a usable file type. Until these players start accepting MP4 extensions, you can rename them with FLV and do some testing. I wouldn't recommend keeping them this way any longer than you have to!

Apparently we shouldn't count on it. I've just stumbled on this :

http://www.kaourantin.net/



New File Extensions and MIME Types
There have been a few questions around file types and mime types which should be used for the new video container format. To summarize this post, we will promote new file extensions and will stick with standard MIME types.

The new file extensions and MIME types will be the following:

File Extension FTYP MIME Type Description
.f4v 'F4V ' video/mp4 Video for Adobe Flash Player
.f4p 'F4P ' video/mp4 Protected Media for Adobe Flash Player
.f4a 'F4A ' audio/mp4 Audio for Adobe Flash Player
.f4b 'F4B ' audio/mp4 Audio Book for Adobe Flash Player




OK, it's oldish, non-official information, and they're talking about file extensions, not containers. But the guy seems to be well-placed, and I personally would loath another file extension to handle.


cheers
audyovydeo

[fields_g]

audyovydeo,

I've seen this before and wrote it off as speculation because of it not being from Adobe and because of its age (within the beta period). But yes.... It might end up this way. According to the table, this person does seem to imply that they believe that it would be a renamed extension of an MP4 file. If this mess becomes fact, the good news is that it is still an MP4 file! Thanks for the comment! We'll have to wait and see!

[DeathTheSheep]

If you want a VfW, you can use VP6 Sharpness profile to encode your video with mp3 audio to an avi. Then simply patch the AVI, which turns it losslessly into .flv (see some patched mencoder builds). Very easy to do if the mp4 method doesn't work out for you (or your clients).

[audyovydeo]

If you want a VfW, you can use VP6 Sharpness profile to encode your video with mp3 audio to an avi. Then simply patch the AVI, which turns it losslessly into .flv (see some patched mencoder builds). Very easy to do if the mp4 method doesn't work out for you (or your clients).

Thanks for the tips, but ... I try to stick to standard (whatever that means ;-)

<rant>
between 1997 and say 1999 I encoded all my videos to Indeo Codec 5.1. I felt smug : it was supported by both QuickTime and VfW !!
OK, version 5.1 was never packaged into QT, but it was available free from apple's site.
I'll let you guess on how many computers my videos can play back today...

Moral of this story, H.264 is a standard, (but so was MPEG4-p2 ...). mp4 container is a standard (but so is .mov). mkv is not, f4_ is not (yet), and so ad infinitum.

Who's going to play back H(x).264 videos in 2016 ?? With what ? Who was it that said "the nice things about standards is that there are so many to chose from" ??

</rant>

cheers
audyovydeo

[DeathTheSheep]

Haha, good point. (Although VP6/MP3 in flv is also a standard! :p)

[fields_g]

A main draw for us is device interoperability. This is where VP6 falls short. I feel the h.264 will be viewable on systems/devices for a VERY long time to come, even if it might not be the codec of choice in the future. H.264 is the standard for HDDVD, Bluray, and new AVC camcorders. Other examples of widely used HARDWARE codecs from the past like MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 continued to be playable by most decent programs. I believe that H.264 has entered their circle of notoriety!

[audyovydeo]

A main draw for us is device interoperability. This is where VP6 falls short. I feel the h.264 will be viewable on systems/devices for a VERY long time to come, even if it might not be the codec of choice in the future. H.264 is the standard for HDDVD, Bluray, and new AVC camcorders. Other examples of widely used HARDWARE codecs from the past like MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 continued to be playable by most decent programs. I believe that H.264 has entered their circle of notoriety!

That's also the way I feel, but x264 has yet to beat Microsoft's marketing, ie VC1 might be *the* codec 5 years from now, for all we know, and x264 will still be around, used uniquely by us "enthusiasts" (dontcha love that term ?).

1. Last saturday on the shelves I estimated the BluRay : HDDVD : DVD ratio at 1 : 1 : 100.

2. intercept a customer buying a BluRay and ask him/her what codec was used to produce that thing

3. H.264, as of today, can be "contained" in .mov .mp4 .mkv, and I guess f4_ : that just ISN'T going to help the cause.
VC1 doesn't suffer from this fragmentation.

4. I don't think it's safe to assume that the DivX / Xvid users will automatically migrate to H.264. I guess half the crowd will move to VC1.

5. PureVideo / DXVA / Cyberlink / Haali playback bollocks are, as of today, still unresolved bollocks. That's keeping yet more people at arm's length.

ok I'm past my daily rant dose.

cheers
audyovydeo

[DeathTheSheep]

Just to add, I have experience in putting H264 in AVI and even OGM, too, as do some others. And let's not forget raw 264 and .ts. ;)

[Inventive Software]

You should be hung for your sins DTS! :D

[DeathTheSheep]

The hanging of a dead sheep is truly an act to be reckoned with, for it dost indeed belie an inherent wrath of the most sinister portent!

Yep. :D All these containers, it's like we're running out of random junk to stuff in them. It's something of an obsession, lemme tell ya.

[ferrangil]

Anybody could explain how to create H.264 flash files in an easy/fast way? I mean, using ffmpeg or something similar.

Some of you are right that, maybe, H.264 will not be the most used codec in a future, but at least now the quality is much better than x263 or other alternatives. Of course, it must be played in a flash player; this topic is not "how to encode a x264 video in a .mkv file". That's quite more easy and there are lots of guides to help with that.

So, anybody can help a bit with H.264 + flash ??
:thanks:

[audyovydeo]

Anybody could explain how to create H.264 flash files in an easy/fast way?

buy Adobe Flash CS3 ???



I mean, using ffmpeg or something similar.


ouch !



So, anybody can help a bit with H.264 + flash ??


tried this ?
http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=JW_FLV_Player


Please note the distinction between creating a flash file encoded with H.264, and playing back an H.264.mp4 file using flash player 9.0.115.0

cheers
audyovydeo

[sillKotscha]

there is no "h.264 flash file" ... just encode your video with x.264 for example, put that file into the mp4 container and use aac for audio... that's it.

after you have done that install adobe's latest flash plugin which is now capable of playing back such content.

and last but not least you have to use a flash player capable of playing back mp4.

[audyovydeo]

there is no "h.264 flash file"

Well this is what the discussion was about.
If that website is right, there may well be a specific file extention (I agree, NOT file type) for H264-inside-Flash.

http://www.kaourantin.net/2007/10/new-file-extensions-and-mime-types.html



"File Extension FTYP MIME Type Description
.f4v 'F4V ' video/mp4 Video for Adobe Flash Player
.f4p 'F4P ' video/mp4 Protected Media for Adobe Flash Player
.f4a 'F4A ' audio/mp4 Audio for Adobe Flash Player
.f4b 'F4B ' audio/mp4 Audio Book for Adobe Flash Player"


To doublecheck, let's see wikipedia. It says :


.f4v .f4v files are standard mp4 files that can be played back by Flash Player 9 Update 3 and above.[22]
.f4p .f4p files are mp4 files protected with digital rights management.[22]
.f4a .f4a files are mp4 files that contain only audio streams.[22]
.f4b .f4b files are mp4 audio book files.[22]


But wait ! If you follow the reference [22] to the bottom of wiki's page, it links to ...

http://www.kaourantin.net/2007/10/new-file-extensions-and-mime-types.html

... thereby showing one of wikipedia's limits (ok, ok, OT).

Anyway I have just gone through the RFCs (upto #5235 jan 2008) and have seen nothing on this phantasmagorical mime type.


cheers
audyovydeo

[sillKotscha]

Well this is what the discussion was about.

well, not really... at least the thread starter and ferrangil had something different in mind...

imho, they're interested in something like this (http://216.75.63.164/flash/512kbps/) and to that respect I gave a short answer.

but concerning there may well be a specific file extention (I agree, NOT file type) for H264-inside-Flash. you're right and this thread turned into a more technical discussion :)

[clsid]

There is no H264-inside-Flash!!!!

They use the MP4 container. Just the term FTYP is proof of that. They just use 'new' file extensions. That doesn't mean its a new file format.

These are extensions used by for example Apple:
.m4a .m4b .m4v .m4p
Notice the similarity?

During the beta testing phase they used a sample .mp4 file for the browser plugin.

[sillKotscha]

There is no H264-inside-Flash!!!!

there is no "h.264 flash file"

... :)

[ferrangil]

Yea, I know there's no "H264 flash file". This thread talks about two topics at the same time: one is using the codec x264 and displaying the video inside a flash file, and the other is "will exist a H.264 flash file" or it will be an .mp4...

Anyway, I was just asking but I think I already know the way to do that.
I'm managing a website where we add lots of videos. We have a version in .wmv because the website is running since 2002 so, it was the best to embbed a video at that time. The other format are x264 files, in a .mkv container, but I used a High Profile, so I think I can discard the option of "just remuxing", to avoid reencoding... I use MeGUI, and some other scripts to do batch-accelerate the process.

So, it is as easy as use .mp4 as the container, change the profile of x264, use aac for the audio... well, ok! Then nothing new really, just that Flash can now display this videos itself...:rolleyes:

Well, thanks!
Some examples of the .mkv we're encoding right now:

Thraupis_palmarum_14g.mkv (http://ibc.hbw.com/ibc/videos/Thraupidae/Thraupis_palmarum_14g.mkv)
Myiarchus_panamensis_3g.mkv (http://ibc.hbw.com/ibc/videos/Tyrannidae/Myiarchus_panamensis_3g.mkv)
Celeus_loricatus_2g.mkv (http://ibc.hbw.com/ibc/videos/Picidae/Celeus_loricatus_2g.mkv)
See you!

[Drachir]

They use the MP4 container. Just the term FTYP is proof of that.
Only because there is "ftyp" box/atom involved isn't an indicator for a MP4 file.
There are other file formats based at the "ISO base media file format" (ISO/IEC 14496-12), like .mov(ftyp ="qt "),.3gp(ftyp="3gp*") and the MP4 File Format ftyp = "mp41" or "mp42".

An indicator for a MP4 file is if the ftyp box is set to "mp42" and you can find an Object Descriptor. If the file has no relation to an other MP4 file and at least one audio/video stream is used, there also have to be an IOD and SceneDescription to have a proper MP4 file.


They just use 'new' file extensions. That doesn't mean its a new file format.
Well they decide that for there use case there is no existing file brand(file format) which covers there needs. To create a new file brand is only consistent. There are other companies, where a new brand/file extension is more advisable.


These are extensions used by for example Apple:
.m4a .m4b .m4v .m4p
Notice the similarity?

This files from apple are not MP4 files(no IOD,OD Track,SceneDescription Track). This is also an other format based at "ISO base media file format" (ISO/IEC 14496-12).

Apple also introduced new MIME types:

.m4a: audio/x-m4a
.m4v: video/x-m4v