Bad codec packs

[zachdms]

So I ran into the comment "most codec packs are good", and thought it'd be interesting to get a vetted list of the *bad* codec packs. That way hopefully those could be fixed up or taken offline.

My basic assumptions about what would be "bad" were:
* Morgan Multimedia Stream Switcher (aka MMSwitch) - will crash pretty much any program using DirectShow (crash is in EnumPins/EnumFilters typically) - is there any good version of this ever?
* Voxware MetaSound - double free during ACMEnumerate or so causes memory corruption, notably will cause Outlook and Remote Desktop on Vista to be pretty much unusable
* DivX 5.2 (current version (http://www.divx.com/) should be OK, IIRC, 5.2 has a NULL pointer crash during some string lookup (may be a NT ony problem?))
* old versions of FFDShow (2004 or earlier) - various issues
* AngelPotion - corrupts playback (http://www.jhepple.com/codecs/angelpotion.htm)
* old versions of AC3Filter (pre 1.1?) - this breaks mono playback in WMP
* Ligos MPEG codecs (such as lmpgspl.ax) - should not be installed to Vista
* Indeo Audio Codec (iac25_32.ax) - crashes when queried about MPEG2 support, do not use on Vista, breaks DVDMaker

I think that's a pretty basic known set of "bad". Lemme know if I'm confused or missed something *you* consider egregious. For the purposes of this list, I'm ignoring legal concerns and known security holes.

Which, given those assumptions would mean that these codec packs simply are "bad":
* Ace Mega Codec Packs (installs MMSwitch, Voxware, DivX 5.2, old FFDShow, Indeo Audio Codec)
* BgPop Codec Pack (installs old broken InterVideo, Cyberlink, Ligos)
* BoliGego Codec (installs AngelPotion, MMSwitch)
* Codec Pack All in 1 (installs MMSwitch)
* Codec Pack de ELISOFT (installs old buggy FFDShow, old buggy AC3Filter, old buggy DivX, MMSwitch)
* Defiler (uses an old buggy FFDShow version)
* DelDecPack (uses an old buggy FFDShow version)
* DivX Total Pack (installs MMSwitch)
* DJBCP Codec Pack (install MMSwitch)
* Gordian Knot (installs MMSwitch)
* K-Lite Codec Pack - anything older than 3.6.2 does nasty things (such as installing Voxware, MMSwitch, etc)
* current K-Lite Mega Codec Pack (installs Indeo Audio Codec to Vista)
* Matroska (uses an old buggy FFDShow version)
* MUSK codec pack (installs MMSwitch)
* Nimo Codec Pack (installs MMSwitch)
* Nimo Codec Pack lite (installs MMSwitch)
* RazorBB Codec Pack (installs Voxware, registers Indeo Audio on Vista)
* Satsuki (uses an old buggy FFDSHow version)
* SLD Codec Pack (installs MMSwitch)
* The Codecs (installs MMSwitch)
* The Codecs Lite (uses an old buggy FFDShow version)
* Storm Codec Pack (installs Voxware)
* Tsunami Codec Pack (worst pack: installs AngelPotion, MMSwitch, oldest FFDShow, old DivX, old AC3 filter, old Intervideo, old Cyberlink, and old Ligos)
* Tzim's Codec Pack (uses an old buggy FFDShow version)

Is that right? I just thought it worthwhile to publicly identify known bad packs. If we accidentally shame people into fixing or removing the bad packs, that seems like a huge end user win. Regardless, it seems like just providing a minor factual reference on the subject would be a good start.

Thanks for any perspective/insight here.

EDIT: K-Lite 3.6.2 no longer installs Indeo Audio Codec to Vista, which is a very nice update. *thumbs up*

[Dark Shikari]

Most codec packs are bad by their very definition. "Minimalist" codec packs often do a good job, because they install only what the average user would need, assuming that if you want something else you can go get it yourself.

Its generally best to assume that a codec pack is bad until proven good, rather than posting a list of bad codec packs (because most are).

FFDShow and Haali's splitter have made most "classic" codec packs obselete; the former decodes nearly everything and the latter splits nearly everything. As a result, most of the work done by good codec packs, such as the CCCP, is in grabbing the right patches and setting default configurations--since there's really nothing else left to do.

[clsid]

KLCP Standard is also a good "minimalistic" pack.

[Sharktooth]

all codec packs are somewhat evil. even CCCP (i really hate that name) contains old versions of ffdshow...
the installers are usually a mess, they overwrite files they shouldnt, they install unneeded and buggy filters/codecs and when trying to uninstall the codec pack they leave files everywhere and remove registry keys or sections on .ini files the should not even touch.
latest ffdshow(tryouts) + haali media splitter do almost everything you may need.

[linx05]

But sometimes I cannot set up ffdshow by myself so they play everything like K-Lite Codec Pack (except for one vid). So that's why I stick with packs.

[Shakey_Jake33]

My main problem with codec packs is I always find myself having to sort out my friends machines because they're not playing their videos properly, and every single damn time, they're either using K-Lite or CCCP. Codec packs cause me so much headaches, especially when 90% of people only need ffdshow (and maybe CoreAVC).

I understand why they exist, especially something like CCCP where it's an attempt to create some kind of common configuration across the community, but I think when people become knowledgeable enough to understand what codecs are and why you need different ones for different files, it's time to drop them and configure yourself.

[zambelli]

I think the idea that Zach is suggesting is to create a "blacklist" of codec packs that are known to be bad in order to save people the pain of installing them and messing up their systems.
Consider that most codec packs are found through search engines. Just goggle "codec pack" and see what comes up. So if we can put together a list of bad codec packs - perhaps we can also get that list to show up in the search results eventually.

[Konrad Klar]

FFDShow and Haali's splitter have made most "classic" codec packs obselete; the former decodes nearly everything and the latter splits nearly everything. As a result, most of the work done by good codec packs, such as the CCCP, is in grabbing the right patches and setting default configurations--since there's really nothing else left to do.

You still need a DirectShow filters for containers like RMVB.

From my experience, most problems with so called "codecs" (this word is often used for DirectShow filters) can be easily solved by changing Meritr of DS filter via tool like GSpot.
People not knowing what is Meritr (and generally how DS is working) usually have continuous problems with "codecs", and they are still searching/believing for good codec pack, that rescue them from such problems.

[Dark Shikari]

You still need a DirectShow filters for containers like RMVB.True, but playback solutions already exist for these; Real Alternative+Quicktime Alternative Lite.

Any smart "codec pack" would likely just include these in their existing form.

[check]

True, but playback solutions already exist for these; Real Alternative+Quicktime Alternative Lite.
The only issue is that they both include weird stuff like coreavc or MPC, which are unrelated to their actual purpose and are probably what the user has already installed.

EDIT: you can include this one because it's ancient http://impulse7.com/zero/ . Basically every pack is evil. Why not instead of trying to blacklist, use a points system. Every pack starts with 10 points, subtract one point per problem.

EDIT2: happy 1500 posts me

[Dark Shikari]

The only issue is that they both include weird stuff like coreavc or MPC, which are unrelated to their actual purpose and are probably what the user has already installed.You sure? Real Alternative Lite is recommended by the CCCP group, for example, because it doesn't contain anything (not even MPC).

[clsid]

What would be the definition of "a bad item" be in that case? Even filters like ffdshow and haali media splitter that most people here (including me) would recommend, contain bugs.

Btw, latest QTA does not contain any DS filters.

[Dark Shikari]

What would be the definition of "a bad item" be in that case? Even filters like ffdshow and haali media splitter that most people here (including me) would recommend, contain bugs.A "bad item," I would think, would be something which either:

a) is both unnecessary and has negative consequences (and thus shouldn't be in the pack)
or
b) has necessary functionality but has a better replacement (e.g. Haali's splitter instead of the old Matroska splitter)

You could also count "good items"--workarounds for problems in filters that have issues, but are still the best of their class.

[Shinigami-Sama]

I use CCCP because its works well enough that people like my grandmother can use it

thought on my next install I'm just planing on FFDshow, halii and maybe QT/Real alts for a few trailers and such I'm to lazy to deal with

[Shakey_Jake33]

Not fully on topic, but since people are discussing Quicktime Alternative, I notice the new releases do not have the directshow codecs to play Quicktime files. How are people playing them nowerdays then?

[Mangix]

via MPC. at least i do. MPC doesn't rely on DS for QT or RM but it can be set to be able to do that. I think the main point for having RM Alternative and QT Alternative is so that you can play those online clips.

also, i use CCCP as well. it's basically what i was already using, but in a nice package.

[Shinigami-Sama]

Quicktime uses AVC for the most part now
as far as I know they've dropped that soreanson one they used to use

which is why it doesn't need an DShow codecs to be installed

I'm not to sure on RM though

[Konrad Klar]

Not fully on topic, but since people are discussing Quicktime Alternative, I notice the new releases do not have the directshow codecs to play Quicktime files. How are people playing them nowerdays then?

There are many third party DS splitters accepting .mov as source. As long as this container is not changed, there is not real need for updating of appropriate DS filter.

[clsid]

The Gabest and Haali MP4 splitters are able to handle most .mov files. ffdshow is able to decode most audio and video formats that are found inside .mov files.

[burfadel]

The only issue is that they both include weird stuff like coreavc or MPC, which are unrelated to their actual purpose and are probably what the user has already installed.



Quicktime alternative used to contain coreavc, which only installed if ffdshow or some other h264/aac decoder wasn't present. The newer Quicktime Alternative lite' only includes the quicktime stuff, nothing else! Same goes for 'real alternative lite'. With the latest versions of those, and the latest ffdshow - the daily builds work fine, don't use one thats months or even years old then complain it doesn't work!

Use Media Player Classic, such as the latest homecinema version, and the internal filters with that, plus ffdshow etc should cover absolutely everything there is to play (some things are disabled by default in ffdshow). If not, then its using some really obscure format - and the common obscure formats (if that makes sense) are covered with ffdshow anyway!

[Shakey_Jake33]

Thanks, I ask because I have various different (old) QT files, and some work, some work with no audio, and some do not work at all (though all worked with the 'old' QT Alternative when it had the DS filters). I suspect I need to experiment with the different splitters then.

[Konrad Klar]

I suspect I need to experiment with the different splitters then.
I'd say rather that you need an appropriate filters for video and/or audio streams contained in .mov. Maybe (as suggested by burfadel) some of them you have already in FFDShow, but support for these formats must be enabled in configuration.

[Shakey_Jake33]

The files in question work on vlc, and according to that, use 'twos' and 'araw' for audio codecs. I'm not sure which that would come under in ffdshow tbh.

[petran79]

one other serious issue is that FFDshow messes up when I use a video editor like Ulead or Adobe.

I prefer players with internal codecs like SMplayer, Gomplayer and KMplayer.

[Konrad Klar]

one other serious issue is that FFDshow messes up when I use a video editor like Ulead or Adobe.
Just add Ulead's nad Adobe's apps to the "Don't use FFDShow in:" list. Maybe it will help.

I prefer players with internal codecs like SMplayer, Gomplayer and KMplayer.

DirectShow and so called codec packs are not for you, friend.

[RNiK]

What about:
Windows Essentials Codec Pack (http://www.mediacodec.org) (HUGE number of splitters but no Haali at all + few information about changelog and codecs version);
Cole2k Media - Codec Pack (http://http://www.cole2k.net/?display=Codec-Pack-Standard) (InterVideo);
FantasyCodec (http://my.opera.com/kingjiu/blog/) (Indeo + VoxWare + keygen for BSPlayer Pro!!??);
Hotwire Codec Bundle (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Codec-Packs-Video-Codecs/Hotwire-Codec-Bundle.shtml) (outdated);
MSUN Decoder Pack (http://www.wmwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=MSUN_Decoder_Pack) (outdated);
XK Codec Pack (http://www.codec-download.com/article.php?sid=237) (outdated);
HelDecPack (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Codec-Packs-Video-Codecs/HelDecPack-OCT.shtml) (outdated);
Kristal Codec Pack (outdated, no info);
Eki Codec Pack (outdated, no info);
Multi-Media Essentials (outdated, no info).:p

[zachdms]

Oh, thanks, that's good info, I forgot those.

Kristal 4.3.3 installs:
* "radium" fhg pro (breaks cross-fading since radium is single-instance)
* hacked ms wma VFW codec
* divx 4 / mayo project
* ac3 audio filter v2.2
* hacked ms wmv VFW/DShow codecs
That's it. So: old, garbage.

K-Lite updated in their new 3.6.2 version to stop installing the Indeo Audio Codec to Vista, so that's very positive.


Also, I'm adding mpegsplitter.ax to my "filters to avoid with prejudice" list given this divide by zero crash:
* http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1776005&group_id=82303&atid=565649
which seems really sadly prevalent. I think only older versions of Vista Codec Package install that, though? =\

[clsid]

I think the mpegsplitter.ax crash with zero length files has already been fixed some time ago in these projects:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli2/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/