Nero Recode vs PSP

[em500]

Hello, has anyone experimented with the compatibility of Nero Recode AVC encodes (from Nero 7.10.1.0) and recent (firmware 3.30+) PSPs ? The built-in PSP profiles from Nero are quite outdated, as are guides I found on the Net.

Specifically, I want to know if the AVC Standard profile works with default settings work if you resize the video to 480x272 or 720x480 and encode at around 1 Mbps. Even better would be if anyone knows or has tried which of the optionals (CABAC, Bidirectional prediction, Macroblock partitions, Weighted prediction, Deblocking) are supported, and what's the max number of reference and B-frames.

If it helps, I can upload some short test encoded somewhere if people don't have Nero but are willing to test for me. Nero doesn't have the bazillion options of x264, so it should be feasible to test them all with a short clip. I would do it myself, but I don't have a PSP yet, planning to get one soon.

BTW, I know most people are using x264 based GUIs, but I'm really just interested in Nero settings for now.

ps. Does anyone know if movies with HE-AAC are supported, i.e., if the PSP actually uses the SBR if you use HE-AAC in movies?

:thanks:

[Atak_Snajpera]

PSP doesn't see HE part only LC!

[Ranguvar]

PSP doesn't see HE part only LC!Nope. AAC-HE works fine. Can cause stuttering when also using maximum quality video though.

I recommend XviD4PSP. Try both the 4.115 stable and latest 5.0 beta.

http://www.winnydows.com/xvid4psp.html
http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?t=23305

[Atak_Snajpera]

Nope. AAC-HE works fine.
Bullshit! Like I said If you encode to HE-AAC PSP will give only HALF of frequency. So instead of 48000Hz you get 24000Hz (due to missing HE decoder). I suggest to use headphones or check video properties on PSP.

[DeathTheSheep]

So you're saying HE-AAC will be accepted by the PSP, and audio will be played, but only at half frequency (no SBR decoded)? If so, that's one heck of a letdown. :)

[foxyshadis]

Anything that accepts LC-AAC will accept HE, because the SBR signaling is in a separate stream that looks like opaque, private data except to an HE decoder. Exact same behavior on the iPod. But given that the usual application of this is to watch a movie on a 3" screen on a noisy bus or whatever, I bet a lot of people really don't ever notice or care about the lack of the top 10kHz.

[em500]

So has anyone tried it with Nero? Or can someone with a PSP with recent (preferably non-hacked) firmware try the test clips below for me?

These are 1.5 minute clips from the PAL Toy Story DVD, resized to 480x272, encoded with Nero 7.10.1.0. Sound is 2-channel 128kbps LC-AAC, video is AVC Standard profile, with all the options enabled/maxed out (CABAC, Bidirectional prediction, Macroblock partitions, Weighted prediction, Deblocking -2, maximum vector range -128 to 127, 2 reference frames, 3 B-frames. All psycho-visual enhancements are turned on, though I don't think these matter for decoding complexity.

Clip with 1.5Mbps video (overkill for this resolution, but I want to see if the PSP can cope):
http://rapidshare.com/files/61683532/TS-272p-1500k.mp4.html
(18.6MB)

If that doesn't play, the same with 750kbps video:
http://rs158.rapidshare.com/files/61681260/TS-272p-750k.mp4
(10.1MB)

I'm just interested in 480x272 myself, but if anyone is interested in 720x480 I can upload those as well.

[Sagekilla]

So has anyone tried it with Nero? Or can someone with a PSP with recent (preferably non-hacked) firmware try the test clips below for me?

These are 1.5 minute clips from the PAL Toy Story DVD, resized to 480x272, encoded with Nero 7.10.1.0. Sound is 2-channel 128kbps LC-AAC, video is AVC Standard profile, with all the options enabled/maxed out (CABAC, Bidirectional prediction, Macroblock partitions, Weighted prediction, Deblocking -2, maximum vector range -128 to 127, 2 reference frames, 3 B-frames. All psycho-visual enhancements are turned on, though I don't think these matter for decoding complexity.

Clip with 1.5Mbps video (overkill for this resolution, but I want to see if the PSP can cope):
http://rapidshare.com/files/61683532/TS-272p-1500k.mp4.html
(18.6MB)

If that doesn't play, the same with 750kbps video:
http://rs158.rapidshare.com/files/61681260/TS-272p-750k.mp4
(10.1MB)

I'm just interested in 480x272 myself, but if anyone is interested in 720x480 I can upload those as well.


I never really understood why someone would want to encode a video @ 720x480 for the PSP when it's hard limited to a res of 480x272..

[Schrade]

I never really understood why someone would want to encode a video @ 720x480 for the PSP when it's hard limited to a res of 480x272..
1) To encode a video at a decent resolution that'll play on both the PSP and a PC.

2) To encode a video at a higher resolution for playback on a TV. This is only possible with the PSP Slim & Lite models though. (The new PSP-200x models)

[Schrade]

So has anyone tried it with Nero? Or can someone with a PSP with recent (preferably non-hacked) firmware try the test clips below for me?

These are 1.5 minute clips from the PAL Toy Story DVD, resized to 480x272, encoded with Nero 7.10.1.0. Sound is 2-channel 128kbps LC-AAC, video is AVC Standard profile, with all the options enabled/maxed out (CABAC, Bidirectional prediction, Macroblock partitions, Weighted prediction, Deblocking -2, maximum vector range -128 to 127, 2 reference frames, 3 B-frames. All psycho-visual enhancements are turned on, though I don't think these matter for decoding complexity.

Clip with 1.5Mbps video (overkill for this resolution, but I want to see if the PSP can cope):
http://rapidshare.com/files/61683532/TS-272p-1500k.mp4.html
(18.6MB)

If that doesn't play, the same with 750kbps video:
http://rs158.rapidshare.com/files/61681260/TS-272p-750k.mp4
(10.1MB)

I'm just interested in 480x272 myself, but if anyone is interested in 720x480 I can upload those as well.
Neither of them worked. (Firmware 3.52)

If you can take some pics of the config window for it with all the h.264 settings I can try to help you out with what works and doesn't. I've translated Sharktooth's PSP x264 settings to Avidemux with a few tweaks.

[em500]

Thanks a lot for testing. This is what I used with the previous files:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7552/nero2tx3.th.png (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nero2tx3.png)

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5710/nero1ls7.png (http://imageshack.us)

(Maybe I should check Letterboxing here?)


Visual enhancements are all on:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9774/nero5abw9.png (http://imageshack.us)

and I think I can leave them on, as all the restricted profiles also use them. The incompatibility is probably due to one of these options:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/734/nero3awx2.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6822/nero4ajv5.png (http://imageshack.us)

Could you also test this file for me? It has all the settings on the last page unchecked, except CABAC (as I read the PSP doesn't play CAVLC), and the max reference frames reduced to 1. If that still doesn't work, I give up. But if it does, we can narrow the incompatibility down to some of the options here.

http://rapidshare.com/files/61839449/TS-272p-750k-LC.mp4.html
(10.1MB)

[Ranguvar]

Could you also test this file for me? It has all the settings on the last page unchecked, except CABAC (as I read the PSP doesn't play CAVLC), and the max reference frames reduced to 1. If that still doesn't work, I give up. But if it does, we can narrow the incompatibility down to some of the options here.I will test soon.

However, 2 reference frames works...

I suggest looking at the CLI for 1-pass Extreme using XviD4PSP 4.115 (www.winnydows.com) to determine what the PSP can/cannot do. Of course, you could just use XviD4PSP anyways. It encodes non-protected (use AnyDVD) DVDs, encodes to 720x480, has AviSynth script control, all the good stuff.

[em500]

Well, I already use Ripbot264, and I know there are lots of working x264 front-ends. I just want to know the settings of Nero as a true alternative (Ateme based) option to x264.

It's a bit frustrating that Nero doesn't bother to update their profiles. High quality PSP with FW 3.30 has been available for a half year, and they haven't done anything with it. And no word on higher quality iPod profiles either. This is really perplexing to me, considering that outside of PCs there are very few playback devices for their existing HQ profiles (Standard, Cinema, etc), especially compared to iPods and PSPs. Maybe Nero 8 has updated profiles?

[Schrade]

Could you also test this file for me? It has all the settings on the last page unchecked, except CABAC (as I read the PSP doesn't play CAVLC), and the max reference frames reduced to 1. If that still doesn't work, I give up. But if it does, we can narrow the incompatibility down to some of the options here.

http://rapidshare.com/files/61839449/TS-272p-750k-LC.mp4.html
(10.1MB)
Nope, doesn't work.

Boy.. those settings in Nero are pretty weirdly named in some cases. Hard to translate over a profile to that.

[em500]

OK, thanks for testing. I guess I'll just have to give up on Recode.