Just say no to SONY

[kis2005]

This is from Doom9 News which you may have already seen:

"Sony is at it again - they're using rootkit stealth techniques for their fingerprint protected USB sticks. And Sony owned SecuRom is causing major headaches for owners of the recently released PC game BioShock. In fact, even if you just install the demo, you'll get the hard to get rid off DRM, too."

This is why I just will not buy anything from Sony, not even blank DVDs.

[Sharktooth]

me too as well from M$ and few others unless they change approach (as Apple did).

[JohnnyMalaria]

The 2005 rootkit fiasco and this one (which is likely to be a dead duck anyway) are from two separate companies. This "latest" IS Sony. The 2005 one is Sony BMG - a totally independent company equally shared with another company that owns Random House and many other household names. Don't remember anyone refusing to buy books, dictionaries etc though.

[kis2005]

Wonder when the day will come, when they want us to buy a copy of the same book for each room tht I want to read it in.

[HyperHacker]

Asap.

BTW, my sig.

[noclip]

What is Sony thinking? These stunts are disastrous for PR and don't make them any money (actually, the development costs of these consumer disablement schemes probably costs them millions).

[sportcenter]

like anyone was NOT expecting Sony to do something like this....

BD+ anyone?

[Slogra]

Bioshock seemed like a nice game and i wanted to buy it... :(

I had much regrets when i bought some games that had starforce protection on them. I never actually played those games because i didn't want that starforce on my pc.

[Dark Shikari]

Bioshock seemed like a nice game and i wanted to buy it... :(

I had much regrets when i bought some games that had starforce protection on them. I never actually played those games because i didn't want that starforce on my pc.
No-CD patches exist for a reason... I use them on all of my Starforce games. :p

[Sharktooth]

well, bioshock is "bundled" with securom rootkit (even if they say it isnt)... and it's even a bit hard to remove...
http://www.gamingbob.com/2007/08/23/bioshock-installs-rootkit-including-demo/
oh, and as the article says, even the demo is "infected"...

[Waleska]

This is what happens when cheap people are too much of a scumbag to realize how destructive software piracy is to these companies.

[Sharktooth]

pfff... they deserve it when they add such BS in their products.

[mr soft]

Definition of a rootkit :

http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&defl=en&q=define:Rootkit&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

Not sure it´s just about piracy ,
Key strokes , user statistics . sound more viable.
There was another rootkit after bioshock just not as nasty
Sony's MicroVault USM-F fingerprint reader drives.

I think it´s going to be very hard to ignore, or just not buy Sony products. They have branched out so much, you would´nt know if you were buing something, that they had a couple of shares in.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yep... It's no more Sony products for me.

[Hard Core Rikki]

When will Sony consider memory erasure rays?
People remembering music and playing it in their heads are directly tapping into music sales ;)

If you can't even "export" your music nowadays, what else can you still do with it then? Are transcoding, backups and even idv3 tag editing (never mind use in personal videos) still legal today, or where they outlawed when nobody was watching ;)

[Dark Shikari]

This is what happens when cheap people are too much of a scumbag to realize how destructive software piracy is to these companies.Incorrect: the purpose of copy protection is to stop fair use. It has absolutely negligible impact on piracy.

[Sharktooth]

correct. pirates are recurring to cracks anyway...
so using protections will only force honest people to infringe laws and be classified as pirates coz they need to circumvent those copy protections using cracks or illegal softwares to exercise their rights.

[deuce2]

Yep... It's no more Sony products for me.
Ditto... I bought all Sony products for my last entertainment purchase several years ago. I wanted the best and stuck with them (Amplifier, tuner, vcr - remember those, etc.); drop lots of bucks. No more! I'll take my busine$$ elsewhere.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Got lots of Sony hardware (camcorders, DVD recorders etc etc).

Today, I bought Sony Vegas 8.0 Pro. Excellent, excellent program. Been using Adobe Premiere for 12 years. Goodbye, Adobe and your buggy crap.

[Hard Core Rikki]

With all these nasty DRM, handcuffware and Tivoized devices, nobody pays to own anything anymore, more like pay to get owned themselves.

[HyperHacker]

In addition to Sony, you may want to reconsider buying from Philips (http://jul.rustedmagick.com/board/thread.php?pid=27922) (look for "related link" halfway through and read from there) and AT&T (http://jul.rustedmagick.com/board/thread.php?id=920). -_-

[Sharktooth]

the philips thing is a minor annoyance and maybe it will never get implemented... however, just turn off the TV when there are commercials if you dont want to watch them or just the decoder... or dont record them at all...

also the AT&T idea is doomed. VPN, encryption, obfuscation and the use of random ports will be really hard to defeat...

[killchimera_7]

Got lots of Sony hardware (camcorders, DVD recorders etc etc).

Today, I bought Sony Vegas 8.0 Pro. Excellent, excellent program. Been using Adobe Premiere for 12 years. Goodbye, Adobe and your buggy crap.

Damn straight JohnnyMalaria, people seem to forget how great Sony products work, from their Bravia lineup to their phones, their Cybershot cameras, vid edit software...I have yet to own a Sony product that gave out under my use, which is not normal either!:D

[Sharktooth]

forget? no one said Sony products suck... it's just the crap that comes "bundled" with them...

[JohnnyMalaria]

I have yet to own a Sony product that gave out under my use

Ditto.

5 camcorders - one 15yrs old that still runs like a trooper.
4 VCRs - one 14 years old going strong
1 TV - 10 years old - my main one
3 Phones
1 Laptop - 8 years old - doing fine
1 Audio system
2 DV tape decks
Dozens of Video8, Hi8 and miniDV recordings on Sony tape - no drop-outs yet (some are 15yrs old and have travelled across the Atlantic and back a few times via sea freight)
Various video-related pieces of software

But I don't have:

Sony shares
Sony rootkits
A Sony cuddly toy

Sony products are always my first choice. I haven't had a single reason to regret buying anything from them.

Even my most recent purchase - Vegas Pro 8.0 - is refreshingly different from Adobe Premiere. Why? Consider you have a dual boot system (e.g., 32-bit and 64-bit XP) and want to see if there's a difference between the two. You have a licensed copy of Premiere installed on the 32-bit version. To install it on the 64-bit, you have to uninstall the 32-bit installation, make a note of the code, install it on the 64-bit OS, phone Adobe, get the activation code blah, blah. You decide there's no benefit, so you repeat the whole damned thing over (believe me, been there - done that). Same deal if you want to put it on another computer than you can't possible use at the same time. A very unfair approach.

With Vegas, install it on as many PCs as you see fit (I installed it on four OSes on the same PC in about 30 mins) and, as long as you honestly only use one installation at any given time, away you go. A very fair approach.

[trodas]

Sony products are always my first choice. I haven't had a single reason to regret buying anything from them.

I had a few. But after the first root kit scandal, Sony has to life w/o me.

And recent reveals tell me, that Sony does not value their customers anymore, so I did not value Sony anymore. End of story.

[Gerard V]

JohhnyMalaria makes a valid point but a bit indirectly. It seems that the bigger manufacturers make a variety of products, and his rave about the quality of Vegas is in part because it lacks the very handcuff-ware restrictions that started this thread off with respect to Bioshock.

Many of the people on this forum (I’m impressed to say), care deeply about the quality of what they produce, and go to great lengths to squeeze the last drop of quality out of the technologies they have available.

Putting the two previous points together I suggest to you that Sony has yet to do anything so bad as to warrant a blanket “no buy” policy, since in some of their product lines they offer exactly the kinds of things many of us actually want – reliable, quality and unencumbered tools of various kinds.

Instead of blocking Sony – we should recommend only buying unencumbered quality products – regardless of manufacturer. My Sony FX1E was an awesome purchase – I have no regrets. I haven’t installed BioShock and will sell it on.

If manufacturers and content producers notice that the unencumbered products are the ones people buy, then those who make the best / most unencumbered products will prevail in the market, and that is surely in all our best interests.

[HyperHacker]

forget? no one said Sony products suck... it's just the crap that comes "bundled" with them...Exactly, it's not Sony products that are bad, it's Sony themselves. ;)

Putting the two previous points together I suggest to you that Sony has yet to do anything so bad as to warrant a blanket “no buy” policyMultiple rootkits, exploding batteries, Bioshock's stupid activation system, killing Lik-sang, DVDs that don't even play on their own players, phony movie reviewers, and false/insulting advertising aren't reason enough?

[prOnorama]

I wanted the best and stuck with them (Amplifier, tuner, vcr - remember those, etc.); drop lots of bucks. No more! I'll take my busine$$ elsewhere.

Sony has never been the best for (consumer) audio equipment, just a mediocre brand. Try other brands like Denon, Marantz etc.

Same goes for plasma TV's, DVD players

You don't need Sony for their hardware, plenty of alternatives ;)

Unfortunately, due to the nature of copyrights/ distribution rights, you can't always avoid Sony products for "software" (content on carriers like CD's/DVD's) since they own the copyrights to certain films, CD's etc.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Sony has never been the best for (consumer) audio equipment, just a mediocre brand. Try other brands like Denon, Marantz etc.

I agree. I have other audio systems (including Marantz/Aiwa/NAD/KEF) but I have one Sony audio system that suits my needs. Never had the need for audiophile equipment in a living room.

Same goes for plasma TV's, DVD players.

I have no desire for a plasma TV and I have a Pioneer DVD player (and Insignia DVD recorder (dirt cheap - for testing purposes) and Sony one (because it supports direct FireWire from my PC)).

You don't need Sony for their hardware, plenty of alternatives ;)

Perhaps, but I'm happy with Sony and their "issues" aren't enough to change that. I can think of many other companies with far more dubious goings-on which I do boycott given the chance (i.e., when it is clear who are their parent company).

But then that's the nature of our capitalist consumer market - if a company doesn't mesh with your ethics, don't buy their stuff.

[shevegen]

I think the ultimate best solution is, if the "monopoly control" in a "free market" does not work, to consider supporting the smaller companies (if the quality is of an ~equal level. Most often, it is)

Perhaps, but I'm happy with Sony and their "issues" aren't enough to change that
I think we all have different opinions. But how much more annoying can it be than to get their DRM crap? You want them to implant chip into your brain to punish divergent customer behaviour or something? ;)

But then that's the nature of our capitalist consumer market - if a company doesn't mesh with your ethics, don't buy their stuff.
I think this doesnt work. Just look at the money flows and the interrelationship of stock markets. A big company has so many ties, it gets hard to avoid it. Agreements can be made so effectively, and the less real alternatives you have, the more you are addicted to it. Like a drug.

PS: Guys, dont buy plasma TVs. We did buy it, after 3 years it stopped functioning. Until then, it was VERY hot whenever we watched TV.... (am i the only one who notices that remote controls start to SUCK after some time of usage? The past remote controls didnt have this problem!)

[JohnnyMalaria]

But how much more annoying can it be than to get their DRM crap?

Well, in my particular case, it doesn't affect me because I don't buy the kinds of products that have that crap, irrespective of the company. As I mentioned before, Sony actually play a fair game with their software I purchased based purely on honesty unlike their major competitor in that area. Actually, it isn't Sony but a subsidiary - Sony Creative Software.

But, I certainly understand that if you do buy the products subject to DRM restrictions, then you should choose a company that doesn't implement DRM aggressively or offensively.

I definitely agree that the nature of multinational corporations with many subsidiaries makes it hard to avoid companies when their practices clash with your own ethical beliefs. I have a number of companies that I will avoid along with their subsidiaries/parent if I am aware. that's whom I am buying from. Unfortunately, it's not always easy to know that.

[mjr4077au]

Why not just buy the game on Steam?

[Slogra]

Steam.... Steam is full of bugs. I'm wasting too much time reinstalling and redownloading updates, compared to actually playing a game. I hate using this bloatware and i will never buy games that use it again.

[mjr4077au]

Steam.... Steam is full of bugs. I'm wasting too much time reinstalling and redownloading updates, compared to actually playing a game. I hate using this bloatware and i will never buy games that use it again.

Though I admit is bloated insanely, I haven't come across many bugs. I just install Steam on another HDD. Then when I need to reformat, I just install over the top. I instantly have all my games fully updated, all custom maps, all saves, all settings. It's seamless.

And c'mon, You mean to tell me you're not going to buy Half-Life 2 Episode 2 just because it uses Steam? You'll buy it. Regardless, it's still better than StarForce/SecuROM.