h264 in MP4 or AVI?

[alexVS]

I used Gordian knot to backup my DVD to DivX or XVid. I've read an article that h264 gives much better quality at the same bitrate, so I decide to learn how to use it.

1. Trouble N1. Gordian Knot doesn't encode in x264. I choose x264 on "Bitrate" tab, press "x264 First Pass" and nothing happens. What may be wrong? Does GK encode in h264

Then I decide to use MeGUI and BeLight (for audio). I encoded 1 hour of concert. The quality is amazing, but I have some questions about encoding. Help me please to find answers.

1. How can I split the ready MP4 file with concert into songs (exactly by key frames with preview like in VirtualDub)?

2. If it's not possible How can I make AVI without reencoding and cut the file in VirtualDub?

3. Why everybody use h264 with MP4 container, not AVI?

4. AVC or ASF what the difference, and which is better?

PS MP4 file parameters:
Container: isom MP4 Base Media v1 [IS0 14496-12:2003]
Video: codec AVC H.264/MPEG-4 AVC
Audio: mp4a: MPEG-4 AAC LC

[Atak_Snajpera]

Why everybody use h264 with MP4 container, not AVI

AVI is old and is not RECOMMENDED for h264. I think most people use MKV instead of MP4. Reason is very simple! If you want to keep original audio track in AC3 MKV is the best choice!

AVC or ASF what the difference, and which is better?

AVC stands for Advanced Video Codec/h.264
ASF stands for Advanced Streaming File. It's not a codec but only a container like AVI,MKV or MP4! As the matter of fact ASF is very similar or even exactly the same as WMV

[RaynQuist]

For splitting look into YAMB/mp4box. I'm guessing it's keyframe-only with no preview

[PuzZLeR]

Question 1 & 2 answered.

Question 3: AVI is an outdated container that wasn't built for modern video needs. It has a 4GB limit which would suck with H.264 if you want to encode HD. As well, with multiple reference frames in H.264, as high as 16, AVI can't naturally "see" that far.

There is something called ODML AVI, but I don't know its potential and I don't see anybody really using it anyway.

The "designated" container for H.264 is .mp4, although many use .mkv as well. Both can handle H.264 just fine. Between the two, .mkv is probably the superior, since it can support AC3 audio, but .mp4 is much more recognized, and supported, by the industry.

I personally encode to .mp4 to be "safe". Going from .mp4 to .mkv is easy if needed, but the reverse is tricky. Just my opinion... but stay away from AVI with H.264.

Question 4: Answered by Atak. However, just in case your question meant AVC vs ASP, these are two different versions of the MPEG-4 standard.

MPEG-4 Part 2 is based on "Advanced Simple Profile" (ASP). It's a video format that has great compression abilities. DivX and Xvid belong in this group.

MPEG-4 Part 10 = AVC = H.264. Just like ASP, but is even more advanced, efficient and modern and can have similar quality with about 25% less file size than ASP. x264 and Nero Digital AVC belong in this group.

[Dark Shikari]

[QUOTE=PuzZLeR;1024909
I personally encode to .mp4 to be "safe". Going from .mp4 to .mkv is easy if needed, but the reverse is tricky.[/QUOTE]
Isn't it pretty easy both ways?

MKV -> MP4: MKVExtract, YAMB
MP4 -> MKV: YAMB, MKVMerge

[SealTooGreat]

MKV -> MP4: MKVExtract, YAMB


+ re-encoding in 90% cases (usually audio). ;)

[alexVS]

Thanks a lot for your answers! The MP4 file was perfectly splitted by YAMB. Without preview but thats OK.

I encoded video with meGUI. It uses just one file: x264.exe. Can I somehow install x264 encoder in the system so it could be seen in the list of codecs (near divx, xvid etc)? Possibly then I'll be able to encode using Gordian Knot or some other programs.

It's just unfair. H264, the most advanced codec of present time humbly lays on disk as a file x264.exe, while DivX or XVid have their own installers :)

[akupenguin]

As well, with multiple reference frames in H.264, as high as 16, AVI can't naturally "see" that far.
There is enough wrong with AVI that you don't have to invent new problems (but most of them apply no matter what codec you use). Multiple reference frames have nothing to do with it. The _only_ feature of H.264 that's incompatible with AVI is B-frames.

[Dark Shikari]

+ re-encoding in 90% cases (usually audio). ;)
How would you need re-encode to convert H.264 + AAC in MKV to H.264 + AAC in MP4 (or vice-versa)?

If you're talking about AC3, that's a completely moot point; its saying "if I intentionally use something incompatible with format B, it won't work with format B! Damn you format A for working with what's incompatible with format B!"

[alexVS]

I like very much the quality that MP4 AVC h264 gives

What I'am afraid of:

1. I hear that the project is open source, NO big copmany advances, publicizes h264, so it may have no future

2. People got used to DVD-standart (VOB, MPEG2), AVI (DivX, XviD), MP3(audio) and few know about MP4 AVC h264. - Again no advertizement, support.

3. I hope there will be hardware support from standalone player manufacturers. For now my player besides DVD supports MPEG4 AVI (Divx, Xvid) files and Nero Digial. And... well there are a lot of MP3 players (and no AAC players). It's good to have favorite video on PC, but sometimes I want to view it on TV (on standalone player).

But I like h264 quality, as a PC format it's ideal.

[mitsubishi]

1) You are joking? AVC (or h.264) is an mpeg-la (its also known as mpeg4-10) defined standard. It is the preferred codec on both HDDVD and blu-ray, the codec used on HDTV where they aren't stuck on mpeg2, used in mobile phones, PSPs etc etc. x264 is open source, but this is just one encoder for the standard.

2) see 1

3) Already many devices do support it, all next generation devices do and will. A £20 DVD/DivX player doesn't, but the cheaper players will come.

[Atak_Snajpera]

AVC is also supported by PS3 and Xbox360!

[alexVS]

Well... I didn't know that :)
I thought it's some kind of good but exotic video format.

Luckily I was wrong :)

[Eno / Omni]

Are you sure AC3 isn't avaible for MP4 ?

[Atak_Snajpera]

AC3 is not included in specifications therefore It won't be supported by players.

[Sirber]

Are you sure AC3 isn't avaible for MP4 ?I heard it can be stored as "private stream", will work on PC but not on HW players.

[JohnV]

I heard it can be stored as "private stream", will work on PC but not on HW players.
Future HW players which meet the Nero AVC High Profile specifications can play Nero High Profile AVC+AC3 MP4s.
http://www.nero.com/enu/showpress.php?id=1025

[Mangix]

Can I somehow install x264 encoder in the system so it could be seen in the list of codecs (near divx, xvid etc)? Possibly then I'll be able to encode using Gordian Knot or some other programs.

It's just unfair. H264, the most advanced codec of present time humbly lays on disk as a file x264.exe, while DivX or XVid have their own installers :)

Video for Windows must die!

[nullstuff]

1. I hear that the project is open source [...] so it may have no future
...open source IS the future. :cool:

-- nullstuff

[CruNcher]

Future HW players which meet the Nero AVC High Profile specifications can play Nero High Profile AVC+AC3 MP4s.
http://www.nero.com/enu/showpress.php?id=1025

Hmm will the new SOC solutions by MediaTek and Zoran be able to playback ASP too (like the old SOC solution multipurpose ARM core Chips ?) then this players won't be dedicated DSPs like Broadcom that only decode 1 bitstream type ?
I mean MediaTek and Co really have todo something also in price to get Xbox 360 (not so the PS3 not @ the moment at least ;) ), so lowcost H.264/AVC players should be somewhere in the 130 € range at first to be acceptable (this is 2 times higher then todays ASP players i think that's ok @ first), on the other side they won't playback HD-DVD or Blu-Ray (no licenses) but maybe HD-DVD/Blu-Ray on DVD 5/9 or AVCHD without license, like it was back @ the time with DVD lol, but yes intelectual property theft is nowdays even harder punished as a crime against human health, so nobody of those adjusted companies wanna make the Film Industry mad against them again and risk the whole country be punished for their mistakes, maybe MediaTeks partners are all gonna forget about Hard Media and go the ways of Networked Players with HDD as many other allready do, but if thats the case how can such players anymore survive against for example the XboX360 or PS3, personaly i see no future for those kind of players anymore if you can have a console that does all that and more see the old XboX with the XBMC (but compare the power of the old Xbox with the new the grow is very big especialy in multithreading due to more cores) and sooner or later XBMC 360, im sure sooner or later MediaTek and Co gonna die and their will be only Microsoft and Sony in the end in our Homes the future can't be stoped, companies like DivX will have hard times if they don't adjust but i don't know how many times i allready told this ;) :P

Imho consoles will become more and more Multipurpose Multimedia Devices and in that future, companies like MediaTek have no future, only Sony and Microsoft are fighting this Mega Fight wich i think is underestimated by many people, even those who go with Microsoft and Sony @ the moment because of the profits are only hurting themselves for the future (Toshiba,Phillips,Panasonic) but maybe it's not important for them anyways (at least in their Player sales IP is another thing and ofcourse nowdays the major point are patents patents patents ak ip ip ip), the rest seems just to be Profit generation (pocket money) from early adopters.

[qyot27]

MP4 -> MKV: YAMB, MKVMerge
Actually, it's only one step - MKVMerge allows MP4 input directly (at least the GUI does, anyway - I assume that the CLI also does), so there's no need to demux the raw streams first.