PDA

View Full Version : My Vivo again


BITS
4th January 2002, 02:58
Since my last post i have not had and break throughs. Now time to try the capture and something seems to be working now...but in virtual dub...when i choose File=>Capture avi i get No Capture Driver Available. Now what does this mean exactly. I choose to use the huffyuv codec for capture...or didnt i. I chose Video=>Compression... from there i chose Huffyuv v2.1.1 and it the field it says Valid depths:24, what does that mean. Ok now i noticed that my driver for my ATI Vivo is there also...it's called ATI YUV12 Fromat Codec. In the field for this it says
Couldn't find compatible format.
Possible reasons:
* Codec may only support YUV
* Codec might be locked.
* Codec might be decompression-only

wtf is going on here???im really lost. I can now see tv channels with the composite line-in. Why cant i capture with Virtualdub/huffyuv???
also im not too sure how to set the audio for this capture to my line-in on my soundcard...i see how to set compression/quality, but have yet to see a example how to set it to line-in

Any help would be greatly appreciate...i renued my bob the builder return dates ..thanks again.

Cart
4th January 2002, 21:47
Make sure you have the latest version of ATI's dirvers, DirectX, and the DirectX video capture update.

When choosing Huffyuv, try to first select a format of YUY2 (YUV2) or UYVY. If that doesn't work, try RGB24.

You probably need the VFW->WDM wrapper to capture with VirtualDub. If you've installed all the updates I mentioned above and it still doesn't work, you can download the wrapper at:
http://faq.arstechnica.com/?i=4

-Cart
http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo/index.html

BITS
6th January 2002, 17:47
Thanks fore the reply...it worked. What would you suugest is the best to use for capturing???im using the program that came with my Vivo now..7.1 something. Is there a better way...because im loosing mass frames. Here's my stuff

amd 1.33 256/ddrram 2100
vivio/blaster! 5.1
4 hdds =170gigs

I have alot of partitions too. i got 10partitions on these 4 hdds. i have 3 cdroms 2 floopies and air drive. ...my system is pretty crowded. could this be what is causing such a lose of frames.
im capturing at 720x640@10mbs/sec. this is pretty good right??

the only thing i can think of that could be affecting this lose is the amount of partitions and the fact that the only partition that has 2% or more free is the one that has my win2k os on it...which happens to be the one i am capturing too also. Should i just unplugg all other drives besides this one hdd that i am using???would that help the loss of frames. I want to capture at the highest setting possible for this program, which is 15mbs but no way ...it goes up to 14% of frames droped.

BITS
6th January 2002, 17:52
im using this program and not virtual dub because it's more accesible. i read a guide over at vcdhelper.com on using this and it seems that i would get the same results either way i look at it. Plus either way im going to do the same exact thing...just easier to click one button and that's it

edit..btw im losing more than 60% of the frames ...its nutz

Cart
6th January 2002, 20:12
AVI_IO and VirtualDub are better AVI capturing programs, but they might not work as well with ATI's drivers.

Why are you capturing to 720x640? That resolution makes no sense. Is your video NTSC or PAL/SECAM? How do you plan on viewing the video?

It's best to capture to a drive that doesn't have your OS or swapfile on it. Try freeing up some space on another drive. The amount of drive/partitions should matter if they're not in use. Don't forget to defragment.

15 mbps is less than 2 MB/sec, which is a very low data rate. If you've gone through the above and still have trouble, make sure DMA is enabled for your hard drives.

-Cart
http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo/index.html

BITS
7th January 2002, 16:58
My video is NTSC. Capturing from tv/vcr. What would you recommend to capture to if i wanted to view the playback on tv. Ultimately im going to watch these back on a television not the computer monitor. (There for children to watch at daycare...i know its a harder way to do this but owell). Ok i did have my OS on another hdd, but that hdd was full and i got the same end results. Alot of frame dropped at 720x480 and 640x480. I didnt really think about what resolution to capture i just chose the highest resolution with the least amount of droped frames.
Im capturing in mp2 and teh final size of the file is 3.57gigs with 1% of droped frames and it looks ok. If i could get it to look better with 0% droped frames with great playback capability on the TV that would be great...but im new at this.

Should i try to get Viv_IO and vdub working and capture in avi at ???x??? or keep working with the 640x480 mp2 stream.??
Also im encoding from there into divx. Ive gone from the mp2 directly to divx in flaskmpeg and went from the mp2 to dvd2avi then into GKnot. Both way the it loose's synch somewhere around at the same exact point. In the end the audio is a good 1sec behind. Now i have tried both ways listed here at doom9 and neither work. I have tried another from digital-digest...no luck either. Is there something i dont know about .mp2 streams that keeps makint this happen???Ive tried alot and not luck yet on the synch issue.
Back to try Viv_IO now...thanks for all the info so far.

just searched for viv_io...no luck at google. where do i get that?

BITS
8th January 2002, 05:21
i just came back to read what you posted again and realized what the file is really called...sorry about that.. Viv_IO ...hehe..im retarded right

Cart
8th January 2002, 07:06
How you should capture and store the video depends on how the video will be played on the TV. Are you trying to make a VCD or SVCD, or are you going to use video-out from your computer? If you're going to use video-out, does your video-out device support interlced video? Does it have any special acceleration for MPEG-1/2 decoding and output?
Also, is disk space a concern?

'1% dropped frames' is kind of vague. Do you have an exact number of frames dropped for a given length of video? Of course, if you can't notice the dropped frames during playback, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.

-Cart
http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo/index.html

BITS
8th January 2002, 22:53
Yes S-Video out from the Vivo to my 27in tv (tv's resolution 800x600 but would like to make the res higher if i got a better tv). No number of frames dropped only 1% over 45mins of video...i will try to rencode to res WWWxHHH but not sure what exactly. Hdd space does matter to a degree. i can clear off like 55gigs on one hdd that is 7200...but honestly would rather not (I think i would still be like 5gigs short of capturing a 45min raw .avi file even then). So Hdd space dose matter to a degree.

Should i capture to a high res mpeg1 which i could capture at really high bitrate. Should i go for a lower res at mpeg 2. Is there a way i can capture 45mins to .avi at really good quality with under 20gigs?

I know asking you these ?'s is almost redundant but some feed back at all is greatly appreciated. Im just not sure what looks good enough to capture to. I would like it to look just like it does on the vhs...obviously no better but defiantel no less. 1:1

But ultimately i will be watching this video's playback on the tv.
I dont know how video capture works when dealing with frames. Is there a set number of frames for any captured video. Like does the amount of frame's that the vhs is recorded in matter or is the framerate totally justified from the video capture device? I know this Bob the builder has a really wacky frame rate. Im not sure why but it differs drastically...but im guess that is from how i captured it. It doesnt seem like the amount of frames on the vhs matters to me. It seems like the frame's captured is totally depicted by what you capture with...like tape recording but on a digital level...sort of :\.

NoiseHead
13th January 2002, 22:50
Hi Bit's;

I'm new here and fairly new to the scene, but I think I can offer some help. We have almost identicle hardware; AMD 1.4, 256/ddrram 2100, ATI vivo, blaster! 5.1, 3 hdds =100gigs. First, Cart is right. Don't capture to the drive your OS or Swap are on and make sure DMA is turned on. Next, use the ATI Capture Utility. It takes advantage of the Rage Theater chip and offers hardware assisted capture. I don't think Vdub will take advantage of that. Capture in Mpeg2, at an appropriate resolution for your input source, or output format. If you're capturing from VHS, XXXx240 would make sense. No need to capture 480 vlines if there are only 240 in the source. Capture as close to 15.0 Mb/s as possible (I am able to without dropping frames). When I started I was having Sync problems as well. But using the following method and tools I have been getting great results. You will need 1) Graphedit, which you can find on the download page here at Doom9. 2) The I-Media AVI Render filter; http://fysx.acwu.com/Main/Main.html. Look in the C++ Code section for the Directshow filter. If you have any junk around the bottom or edges of the captured stream, you might also like the The Moonlight Scalar - Resizer DirectShow® filter; http://www.moonlight.co.il/download/index.shtml (thanks again to Trbarry for this link!)

In graphedit, choose file=>render media file, and choose your .mp2 file. Graphedit will automatically choose and arrange the appropriate combonation of filters necessary to play the audio and video streams contained in the file. Choose Graph=>Insert Filter, to Insert the Moonlight scalar filter (if necessary) and connect it in the video stream just before the renderer. Play with the settings until your happy with the video image in the render window. When your happy, delete the audio and video renderer from the end of the graph and insert the I-Media AVI Render filter. Connect the a/v i/o pins together. Press the play button on the button bar to start the graph. Choose the codec you want to compress to and configure it. I have been using DivX 4.11, 4.12 with great results. Leave the audio uncompressed. When the frame count stops rolling press the Stop button to close the AVI file. Close Graphedit. Load the .avi into VDub and convert the audio to 128k MP3. Doing this I have had no sync problems and the results of my finished files are excellent. I have been capturing from a Digital TV source at 720x480 (the signal is actually broadcast in that resolution). Compressing the video to Divx4 and the audio to 128k MP3 I have been fitting an hour of video on a 700 MB CD. With some tweaking I can fit most movies on 2CDs. Played fullscreen at 1024x768 shows a little scalaing but the image quality is still very good. Output on to the television at 800x600, the image quality is MUCH better than a VHS recording. I would say about 70-80% quality of the original digital signal.

With cropping some junk off the edges of the image, my final output res is usually 688x448. I have left it like that because using graphedit even with the cropper there is no unecessary processing of the image. Everything stays nice and clean. The results are very good. The image is slightly letterboxed on the screen, but I'm a fan of widescreen anyways so I like it. I have found that children don't mind it either. I'm still new to this and have just started playing with 2 pass VBR encoding. I'm sure with some tweaking I can push those files smaller still and keep the same image quality.

If you have any problems with Graphedit, PM me and I'll give you a hand.

Cart
14th January 2002, 01:26
BITS,

You should find out if your video card supports interlced video for video-out. When played on a TV, interlaced video is much smoother than progressive video, which is how videos are played on a computer monitor.

NoiseHead's post was good, although there's some confusion with vertical resolution. For maximum quality, you should capture 480 lines, even from VHS. This is especially important if your TV-out supports interlaced video because you need all 480 lines for interlaced video (assuming NTSC video). It's the horizontal resolution that's less important.

Capturing to MPEG-2 with a high bitrate could be a good solution in your case. Converting to DivX is a possibility, although this may not work as well if you want interlaced video.

-Cart
http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo/index.html

BITS
15th January 2002, 13:41
Ok here's just a few more. When i figure out wether or not my card supports interlaced video...do i leave it interlaced or just capture interlaced and de interlace afterwards. (Im thinking yes leave it interlaced but just asking)

what res should i not go above to capture to. I have read 640x480 is what is highly recommended but if i would go higher would it improve performance output on a better television (im thinking no here)

last but not least... For some reason i cant capture currently to 640x480 mpeg2 without loosing 8% of the frames..not sure the # of frames but that is WAY high. Ive read a post somewhere by somebody that they captured to 640x480 in .mpeg2 with 0%frames droped with only a amd 900mhz cpu. How come i cant then??? NoiseHead has only .67mhz over me and he can too. How do you do it NoiseHead...is your 100gigs full...or really close?? Is my system here really that wacked out or wtf. It's made me very distressed seeing how people can capture with less or close to equal hardware with 0% frames dropped. It's really blown my whole day. Would getting a capture device like the dazzle or some zhit help me out any???wtf can i do here...should i over clock??? clean off the hdds?? get a powertool installed like X-teq ???

i cant totally go off yet because i have not switched my OS over from the capturing hdd. I have though already have UDMA ultra 5 set in the bios for this hdd.

Is there a way to let more memory allocate to this specific function??like let it use all available memory for capture??



Im very sad right now...im taking a nap.

Cart
19th January 2002, 23:00
Like I said, interlaced video looks better on a TV, so leave it interlaced if you are able to play it interlaced. Note that an interlaced video will probably require a slightly larger bitrate/filesize due to the increased motion.

For NTSC, you should never capture more than ~480 lines because there is no more detail. Horizontally you have more choice, but 640 pixels should be plenty (and it produces a nice square pixel video).

I don't know that much about ATI's MPEG-2 capture, but you should try defragmenting your hard drive and keeping your OS off the capture hard drive. These things could easily cause you to drop frames.

-Cart
http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo/index.html

BITS
22nd January 2002, 11:07
First if you havent visited Carts homepage you should check it out...alot of good stuff.

Ok well...I did that(what you said defrag, move OS, etc..)and i read your guide at on your page. Still droping mass frames. Im not sure wtf is going on here. Do you think it could be the amount of drives & partitions my system has?? Im not sure what to do now...I seem to be the only one that has had this problem with my system's capabilities. This is straight nutz. Do you have any last suggestions on wtf to do when all the above fail...besides purchase more hardware????Brainstorm....i really need it. I can't even capture at 352x480 at 15mbit's without dropping 8% of the frames...that has to be alot. BTW in avi_io my Vivo is not listed...on the WDM is with a check by it...could that be a clue. Ive intsalled that wrapper program that you reffered me to earlier..do i need something else?

Off subject but i think your page is nicely setup. Keep it quiet but i like the architecture of the page better than doom's here. Not saying either is lacking but yours keeps alot of the desired info close together. Doom beats you on the color scheme though...then again he has his own domain. I think you should try to get your own domain too. Not saying your page is lacking anything...obivously i dont think that from the above...but i woul like to see what you could do with alittle more space. Do they pop up's make you alot of money on your page btw.????

p.s. i like that you thanked your mom...your right...mothers are the best proof reader's for complexity. Atleast mine as far as technology is in the same boat as your's...i can guarentee that ;-P

hulkenstrong
23rd January 2002, 09:29
Have you tried to capture to the begining of an HDD or the first partition of 1 of your HDD´s...Many HDD´s tend to get slower at the end of the HDD and you said they are almost full...try movi´ng data to free the first partition of 1 of your HDD´s and if you whant to convert to divx in the end I would try to capture directly to divx and then you will have synced audio video and if you use the 1pass 100%quality the divx will have the same res as your video input and then you can extract and compress the audio later on...and 1 more thing that is good whit divx is that it uses lower bitrate and will not need an fast HDD...hope anything was helping

BITS
23rd January 2002, 11:32
thanks for that suggestion...right now im currently trying to clean off my entire 60gig hdd. the drive i am trying to capture to is the first partition on that hdd...the first of 3 actually. but i have another performance ?....does it matter what ide controller it is on??like right now its on p/s(p/s = primary slave)...should i put the drive i am capturing to on p/m and keep the os on p/s...or do i want the os on p/m so its first in line and keep the capture hdd on p/s. ok or...:-) should i put the OS on p/m and put the caphdd on s/m....or put the OS on s/m and the caphdd on p/m....??? im not sure what to do...but im cleaning off 2 hdds right now to reformat and try this again. but im not sure where i should have what drive and what is a higher priority..hdd or os ?? or if it even matters at all i dont know.

THANKS AGAIN AND thanks again and ,,,,,, ,,,,, ,,, ....... ....

just in case

hulkenstrong
23rd January 2002, 11:51
I think the best is to put your os on P/M and the capture HDD on S/M...works great for me I get 20-25 MB/S(UDMA-66 and 5400rpm)....and that´s more then enough for capturing...do you have udma 66/100? and what os are you using...there are alot of capturing problems in XP try to switch to 98/me or use multiboot. good luck and what filesystem are you using fat32 are faster then ntfs...but ntfs supports files larger then 4GB

BITS
23rd January 2002, 17:23
Ok...so put the caphdd on s/m and format that hdd with fat32..sounds good. i thought that ntfs was alittle faster than fatXX. If i would use the 4 gig limitation...when the file would split during capture at 4gigs would i loose frames??? also what does standard television broadcast at??? is it 640x480??? i called my cable provider and they told me 525 lines...which is obivious...so im sort of confused. Why am i confused...well when i was on the phone i skiped pass the Sally show...i noticed it was letterboxed. Would this mean that if i wanted to capture the Sally show i should use 720x480 to capture with for best quality and then afterwards crop if i wanted to.????

hulkenstrong
23rd January 2002, 18:47
When you reach the 4 GB limit the progs will switch sio fast you aint lose anything, I dont know about the standard but I think 512 are corect and I dont think you need to go higher then 640(I think hopefully any1 of the others can give more precise info about that..).

hakko504
24th January 2002, 09:26
About NTSC(and PAL): Analogue transmission is 525(625) lines. However, about 10% is needed for vertical sync. => 525(625)*0.9=472(562) lines. MPEG-2 requires blocks of 16x16 so for broadcast and DVD 480(576) lines is used. The analogue sync is automatically added by a standalone player when outputted to TV. How to end up at 720 pixels of horizontal resolution is a litle harder, but basically they have chosen a number that will work for both PAL & NTSC as well as beeing about 4/3 of the number of lines used. (480*4/3=640 and 576*4/3=768) This will produce approx the same number of pixels/second in both NTSC and PAL.

Cart
28th January 2002, 06:43
BITS,

Hehe, thanks for the compliments on my site. I really strived to produce some decent organization. I could work on the color scheme, but I don't have the time or the bandwidth to make improvements right now. (Heh, being that may site is 99% text, I didn't even know I had a color scheme.)
Those pop-ups are my compensation to GeoCities for hosting the site. I don't make any money.

For the capture resolution, 640x480 should be good for a standard NTSC TV broadcast. You could crop that letterboxed video as long as your TV-out doesn't automatically try to resize the video to fill the whole screen. Just remember that cropping usually requires recompression, which decreases quality. Those black bars don't take up much of your bitrate, so it may be better just to leave them there.

I don't know what to say about your dropped frames. I'm sure I've already suggested that you reinstall the latest version of your capture drivers/software. Can you tell me what CPU utilization you get during capture and what bitrate you're capturing at? You can run a simple disk benchmark (like VirtualDub's AuxSetup.exe) to determine if you're exceeding your HDD's maximum transfer rate.

-Cart
http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo/index.html

BITS
2nd February 2002, 02:47
yikes!!!! he's back again ;-)..ok well i have to follow up.

ive backed up and formatted 2 new hdd's...i got win2k on p/m on a ntfs partition and my capture hdd on s/m running fat32. ive just conducted a test with avi_io 3.20 and 3.22 and vdub. vdub i really dont understand too well but it worked like i wanted it to..but just the audio is way way way off...avi_io 3.2x worked great but it stoped capaturing at around 13gigs or so. i like avi_io but the version i got must be f'd up to stop all of a sudden. vdub i could stand but the mux issue suk'd. i also dropeed 2 frame's in vdub..i know its not alto but compared to avi_io it's something. Anyways ..it's going ok...as soon as i get a 100% satifactory i'll post again.

p.s. would capturing from a coaxial cable be any different than a composite..like capuring with a tv tuner card vs. have the coaxial cable into a vcr to composite in on your card???

p.s.s. anybody got avi_io 3.16 or older...ive found alot of documentation on 3.16 and older but not too much on 3.2x...one of the
newer versoins are good i guess but under my exact cirmunstance i cant work with it as efficently...not to mention alot of the documentation is describe sing 3.16...

off to capture in vdub running off cart's guide
now...thanks alot

edit here....i forgot..in the vdub auxsetup.exe it list a testing resoluiton of 320x240x16...im taking i should just double that since i want to caputer at 640x480 right??..ive never seen that before and it threw me off...i just made it 640x480x32