Nero Digital with a constant quantizer

[vigi_lante]

Is it possible to encode a video with Nero Digital (ASP) with a "constant quantizer", like DivX or XviD ?

Thanks.

[JohnV]

Not at the moment. Although you can set min and max quantizers, the defined file size is taken into account in calculations.
This feature is under consideration for future release.

[weaver4]

When this was brought up a few months ago it was said that it would be in the next release. It wasn't. It was also said that the next release would have a Apple TV profile, it didn't.

[JohnV]

When this was brought up a few months ago it was said that it would be in the next release. It wasn't. It was also said that the next release would have a Apple TV profile, it didn't.

Can't be so. These are not decided features yet, so nobody has said things like that. What I have said is, that I have suggested these features. It is up to the managers to decide what features will be included. Constant quantizer has been considered a good idea, so it's likely that it will be implemented at some point, but no final decisions have been made yet. Definitely I have not said anything about "next release".

[CruNcher]

Sorry to say but now Ahead (Nero) has become so big it got unflexible and slow i still can't belive it took 2 years after High Profile was finished by Ateme for Nero to make it ready for the Public and now all this here, no wonder that alot of companies fear Open Source :D
It sounds to me like once a year the Head of Nero is meeting in a secret hideout and deciding what get's implemented in the next years, like open that big big drawer and pull out stuff that's resting since years in there LOL ;) and every fix has to be marketed like a new feature and go throug 500 internal instances before being approved hehe, but ok that really sounds like our German mentality ;) :D

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

i still can't belive it took 2 years after High Profile was finished by Ateme for Nero to make it ready for the Public
I think you are a bit unfair, it was less than 2 years ;-)

Back on the original topic, what would happen if you select a huge target file size, and at the same time select min and max quantizer to the same value?

[SealTooGreat]

JohnV, "Nero AVC Video Enc" filter opened in GraphEdit(previously renamed to Recode) have "Rate Control = Variable bit rate" giving sub-option "Quantizer" (I assume it is missed constant quantizer in Recode GUI). And there's also option for PAR signalization. So why are those features locked in Recode?

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/5715/recode1zf1.jpg http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3146/recode2xt3.jpg

[JohnV]

JohnV, "Nero AVC Video Enc" filter opened in GraphEdit(previously renamed to Recode) have "Rate Control = Variable bit rate" giving sub-option "Quantizer" (I assume it is missed constant quantizer in Recode GUI). And there's also option for PAR signalization. So why are those features locked in Recode?
I'm the wrong person to answer that, because I'm advocating and pushing more features. But reasons that so far we haven't seen those seem to come from combination of keeping things simple for masses policy, target size concentraded GUI architechture and resource issues.

[JohnV]

I think you are a bit unfair, it was less than 2 years ;-)

Back on the original topic, what would happen if you select a huge target file size, and at the same time select min and max quantizer to the same value?
In that case you'll get a huge file no matter what you select as quants.

[PuzZLeR]

So why are those features locked in Recode?...politics.

Ateme is the H.264 implementation, and AFAIK, Nero Recode is the only known GUI for it.

Something to do with specifics, compatibility and agreements between the organizations. This is not an issue of engineering for JohnV...

[mediator]

"constant quantizer" (CQ) ratecontrol mode is somehow in conflict with the profile/level idea (call it Nero Digital profile or ISO profile/level): Usually it will not be possible to claim in advance compliance with any profile/level when encoding with CQ. In the PC world CQ may have useful and interesting application areas, but when going to CE devices, it likely introduces trouble.

[SealTooGreat]

Ateme is the H.264 implementation, and AFAIK, Nero Recode is the only known GUI for it.


Digital Rapids Studio AVC Encoder features the ATEME H.264 codec, delivering top encoding quality with support for Baseline, Main and High profiles.
...source (http://www.digital-rapids.com/News/Press%20Releases/NAB2007StudioAVC.aspx).

[PuzZLeR]

Hey there Seal, thanks for the link. Quite interesting.

Actually, what I should have stated was that AFAIK Recode is the only consumer level GUI for Ateme. Ateme's been around other areas too, particularly security as well, but I feel they have an exclusive with Nero regarding the consumer market such as you and I. I think that link is for professional solutions only.

However, I could be wrong. I didn't state fact, only "AFAIK". Would you know if this encoder is something that someone like you or I can buy? It looks real sweet.

I would love to get my hands on something that harnesses the true super-power of the Ateme codec, which is just as beautiful as x264. It could add much input to the OSS community as well.

[shon3i]

Well the nero policy is always been weird, but i understand why, it's simlpe. If we back in near past we will see that nero have very poor implementations of encoders both video and audio, but now nero have leaders. So enableing advanced features in encoders can't make thing better.

Ok i understand that but i can't understand Nero Digital Profiles, because that profiles destroy quality of original ASP/AVC profiles

[SealTooGreat]

However, I could be wrong. I didn't state fact, only "AFAIK". Would you know if this encoder is something that someone like you or I can buy? It looks real sweet.

lol ... having Ateme h264 encoder and Manzanita multiplexer in the same package is more than sweet - It's f*cking awesome . :) But I'm afraid it's to expensive. I couldn't find price for software solution, only for servers (hardware + software) and it's toooo high ($26,995 (http://www.videomediasolutions.com/dr_streamzhd2.html)) :eek:

[PuzZLeR]

Well the nero policy is always been weirdLike I said, it's politics.

Nero is very much like QuickTime in a way. I am in the opinion that it's not engineering flaws, it's actually done on purpose to create some sort of "standard" within an existing standard.

H.264 is an open standard. Anyone can use it. However, companies like Apple, and now even Nero, create their own profiles within to create a signature/branding or even to give off a sense of "ownership" of the codec.

This is the politics of branding and marketing. QT is actually a horrible player on Windows (IMNSHO). But it's done on purpose to limit H.264 to only those streams that are "QT compatible".

It's actually working for Apple. Because of this craftiness alot of people have referred to H.264 as the "Apple codec". And some, including myself I admit, have been encoding H.264 video to be QT compatible.

This is Nero's strategy in some ways as well in how they stifle the capabilities of Ateme. It's not bad engineering in my opinion, it's purposeful limitations of the encoder so the streams can have a "Nero Digital" branding and I think alot has to do with their "Nero Digital AVC" stand-alones coming out and contracts within CE. Even if these machines could play other H.264 content, Nero will still have enough leverage to call it a "Nero Digital" player because of "their" profile...

[PuzZLeR]

I'm afraid it's to expensive. I couldn't find price for software solution, only for servers (hardware + software) and it's toooo high ($26,995 (http://www.videomediasolutions.com/dr_streamzhd2.html)) :eek:Well to me that sounds like a professional solution, not a consumer one. I haven't seen any other Ateme GUI other than Recode for people like us.

Even if you or I would plunk down mega-$$$ Ateme still wouldn't sell us its codec. Ateme only sells it professionally, including to Nero, to avoid channel conflicts. And I think Nero locked up the consumer market with Ateme's implementation with an exclusive contract... quite clever actually.

I don't think even Digital Rapids could sell you their encoder unless you're a company either, even if you have the $30K. I think there's a contract there somewhere.

Then again, this company, Digital Rapids, just so HAPPENS to be in the same city as me here in the Toronto area,...hmmm, I'm thinking now...:devil:

I do thank you very much for this link... :D