Vista Ultimate x64, need some advice.

[SDplus]

I'm pretty sure my angle on this problem hasn't been the most covered one around here.
I'm looking for the best way to proceed in a new HTPC-build that I am working with.
I built this one from scratch and it has the following parts:
MSI K9A platinum
4 GB DDR2 800 cl4
X2 4800+
2 x HD2600XT GDDR4 in crossfire
Auzentech Xplosion 7.1 DTS connect.
Technotrend S2-3200 CI (DVB-S2 card)
4 GB Readyboost flashmemory (I know, over the top)
250 GB SATA2 NCQ
500 GB SATA2 NCQ (Both running in its own arrays in RAID-mode since it was the only way to get AHCI to work with Vista x64)
SATA DVD-R 18x
Xbox360's HD-DVD rom.

The only thing I plan to change in this is to get the DVD-R changed into a Combo HD-DVD/Blu-Ray in the future, and thus get rid of that ugly Xbox-thing. And to add a Hauppage USB CI-interface as I use two Sat-providers.
Anyway, this rig SHOULD be sufficient for everything HTPC including HD-content for a while, and even allow a smudge of basic gaming capabilities on it.

Now, I have installed all drivers and updates and are ready to roll on to installing codecs and players.
I do however plan to do things right. I'd prefer to use codecs and players that do support at least SMP and preferably uses AMD's UVD.
I also understand this is all new, especially choosen to go x64, and combined with AMD UVD.

However. I do not want to install anything that will be a major pain to get rid of later. So I guess I want to install codecs separatly, and I'm not afraid to pay for them (within reason). And that is the reason I have had trouble finding concrete advice anywhere. All things is for free stuff that's usually geared towards simpler setups.

I do own already PowerDVD 7 deluxe from my previous XP-based HTPC. I also have Quicktime pro bought for, and the full Divx too. So I could use that as a base. But I am also open to suggestions to ditch those entirely if I can get Blu-Ray and HD-DVD playback better or easier in some other software.
I also want to be able to play all the usual suspects you find on your favourite news-server. mkv and stuff.

To my current knowledge I need my PowerDVD to get the official HD-playback, and then there is the Vista Codec Pack. I'm also very interested in the upcoming CoreAVC Enterprise edition. But it may be moot if I use PowerDVD.
I do have bad experiences from ffdshow on previous dual cores, so I don't know what I did wrong there, but thought it shouldn't have to be that tough to get it to work from an end-users perspective.

I'd also like to keep as many things as possible easy to deinstall or upgrade as I suspect that Whatever I install today will be totally irrelevant 3 months from now. I expect nothing else. But if I mess up this beyond any means to update in the close future other than to totally reinstall (I'm on an OEM Vista Ultimate, so I guess I have limited numbers of reinstalls, and no 32-bit disc either), I may not be able to do that indefenitly...

I wouldn't mind totally to not install some codec-supports for now awaiting better things, since the old HTPC is still up and running.
I understand that if I install a codec pack like Vista codec pack, then that would go in last as it will detect what support is already there. But I also read tips that if you want to get totally rid of a codec-pack, then I am in for trouble...

Anyway, I just need a kick in the butt directing me to the correct thread or just giving me some direct advice on what to install, and more importantly, in what order (And possibly if I should wait a while). I do not want this install to get messy.
If a thorough search would have solved all this for me, then I apparently suck at searching...

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[burfadel]

Is there any performance benefit with the special DDR2 ram that will only work (currently) with AMD's? it uses a different addressing method.

[SDplus]

I have no idea what you are asking.
There is nothing special with the DDR2 ram I use. It's 4 x 1 GB GeIL DDR2 800 4-4-4-15.
It would work in any C2D system too.

Anyways. Since PowerDVD is fairly easy to uninstall I went ahead and tried it with the latest patch.
It seems it was less than efficient at using the hardware-support available. CPU-load was at above 50% per core in a Simple VC-1 title, and I had no luck at all getting audio out over SPDIF... so far.
Also, after initially opening one .ts-file on my server it now hangs every time I try to open any non-movie-type (PowerDVD lingo for HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, DVD media) files. So even if I updated to the latest build it seems PowerDVD has some serious issues in Vista.
I'll do further testing awaiting more specific advice... Oh yeah, and for some reason it seems low priority stuff running such as distributed computing don't give way as it should in Vista. So I might have to discontinue stuff like that for this machine... for the time being.

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[SDplus]

O boy does the current PowerDVD suck on Vista x64. It actually ignores hardware support totally, making my old HTPC far superior despite lesser CPU, lesser Hardware-support and lower Ram. But I casted a long problem-report the Cyberlink support-way... :)

And I get no SPDIF out at all, and not HDMI audio either. Although everything else Audio I've tried have no problems with any Digital output selected...

So For the moment, PowerDVD is clearly not the right thing... :)

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[deets]

vista 64 wont play back digital through the spdif unless its in a 64 media player. currently thats only wmp11.

another issue, when you use a 64 media player, you must have 64 bit codecs. so dont expect to be able to use coreavc in a 64 bit media player, and therefore you cant get coreavc to work in conjunction with spdif passthrough.

you can use ffdshow and this will be fine for mpeg4 playback and some AVC, has issues with HD output.

64 bit vista is not a great choice as a HTPC currently, and also remember if your DVD is patched to be region free using RPC1, vista wont let you play your DVDs unless they arent region encoded...

[SDplus]

Yes, I expected things would be difficult at the start. Lucky the old rig is still up. When you say that it wont play digital unless a 64-bit player I assume this is for video only?

Do you have any idea on where to find info on where 64-bit codec development are standing? And even more interesting is ones that will support AMD UVD?

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[deets]

it wont passthrough dolby digital or DTS to an amp unless its played via a 64 bit player written to take advantage of the new audio system.

you can play mp3 and all that without any problems though, and you can still playback audio in 2 channels via a 32bit player.

i think this board is the best place for 64 bit codec updates, im in a thread about 64 bit ffdshow. who knows whats going to happen regarding coreavc, im personally not too filled with confidence about core, but im probably wrong and i hope i am!

dont know much about UVD to be honest!

[Bigmango]

Everything is running perfectly here, on vista x64 and the latest vista codecs packages. I have the 64bit windows media player set as default player with the vista codecs (also the 64bit player registry key, both options are in the vista codecs application menu and must be executed with admin privileges to be applied correctly).

All the codecs work perfectly in 64bit. The only problem I had was with AVC outputting a green overlay on the video. The fix for this was to open the "Video decoder configuration" (in vista codecs menu 64bit section) and under "Output" disable "YUY2".

AFAIK windows media player is the only 64bit player that can play everything on vista x64. For me it works great. It doesn't seem to be using less CPU than the 32bit version, but it definitely loads the codecs much faster than the 32bit version (when detecting the codecs to play a file).

[deets]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1022326#post1022326

the link in that will get you a newer ffdshow with some fixes built in :)

the problem with AVC only really comes into play at high def levels as the 64bit doesnt appear as fast as the 32bit version currently. would be nice if they gave us a 64 bit version of coreavc!

and i also think wmp11 is ok, but i much prefer mpc :) lets pray for a 64 bit version :D

[Bigmango]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1022326#post1022326

the link in that will get you a newer ffdshow with some fixes built in :)

Awesome thread, :thanks:

[SDplus]

If I Install the Vista Codec Pack and x64 addition. Will it be a pain to get rid of as better codecs starts to roll in?
I'm not exactly filled with enthusiasm over my past experiences with codec-packs.

Anyway, I will check out that thread.
And, yes, although I am an Arsian at heart. When it comes to things like this I always check out Doom9. Notice my extreme lurker-status as this thread ws the first post I ever posted apparently... :)

Edit: About AMD UVD. It's the name of the new HD-Avivo in the new ATI/AMD HD2600 and HD2400 series with hardware support for the entire H.264 chain. With those cards the CPU should only need to provide the data to the Graphics card, Everything else including Audio is done by the Graphics card. And as opposed to Nvidias HD-circuits, it also supports fully all other HD-standards such as Mpeg and VC-1. It's the entire reason I choose those cards, and them being two is because they suck at gaming by themselves... :)

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[Bigmango]

If I Install the Vista Codec Pack and x64 addition. Will it be a pain to get rid of as better codecs starts to roll in?


The vista codecs pack is updated every couple weeks, so it's always using the latest ffdshow version. You can uninstall it easily with the control center add/remove program.

It also installs the ffdshow config tools which allows you to select which codec you want to play for each file type.

Don't forget to always install the 64bit pack after the 32bit one.

[SDplus]

Ok, I think I will give up on x64 for a while. The problems have stacked up in the last days. No AMD UVD support yet, at all. Software-players do, but the ATI drivers have disabled it for x64.

I will not get Multichannel out as it is.

Crossfire is flaky at best. I get demos to work, but no actual games.

And that's just the start. I'm gonna lay x64 on ice for a while as it seems.

Now, how likely is it that x86 will be a lot better? I assume it will be. But is Vista in general a nightmare for HTPC use, or is it only x64?

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[deets]

from what i know, and i haven't tested, 32bit vista is just fine for htpc usage.

you will be able to use your old faves like mpc and coreavc and i believe you will get spdif pass through without any issues.

this is just from what i have read, could be wrong.

[SDplus]

Yeah, I read that too, I'm just whoring for encouragement... :)

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[deets]

whore away bo, whore away :P

ive not found 64 to be too bad, but mine is more of a test setup and my needs werent too specific

[Bigmango]

Everything is fine here on vista x64, core2 6400 and ati x1900xt.

HD avc is displayed perfectly, so I would guess that as you are having problems it's just my cpu that's able to take the load.

[deets]

Everything is fine here on vista x64, core2 6400 and ati x1900xt.

HD avc is displayed perfectly, so I would guess that as you are having problems it's just my cpu that's able to take the load.

whats your cpu?

mine is a 1.8 dual core, and it plays fine in the 32 bit mode. my main issues are with high def stuff, 720p can be okay but 1080p isnt :)

[Bigmango]

whats your cpu?

mine is a 1.8 dual core, and it plays fine in the 32 bit mode. my main issues are with high def stuff, 720p can be okay but 1080p isnt :)

As I said, core2duo 6400, everything plays fine in vista x64. I get between 60%-70% CPU load when playing 1080p AVC, and 30% load with 720p VC1. The load is on both cores.

[deets]

using ffdshow and wmp11?

edit: re reading you are :)

ill look into things :) but my cpu is slower than yours as well :)

[Bigmango]

using ffdshow and wmp11?

edit: re reading you are :)


Yep :)

[SDplus]

No my problems is that the hardware-support isn't there in the x64 drivers for HD2600xt series, and it's even worse with my crossfire setup. I'm betting that if I put in my X1950XT in there I would be in a lot less pain. Only the Audio-issues.

Doesn't matter, I just started a x86 install instead. It should resolve matters. I only went for x64 for the future, I only hoped the future would be a lot more "now".

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[SDplus]

Well, I'm now having more success with 32-bit Vista.
I am missing something though. I simply cannot get SPDIF multichannel no matter what. I know this didn't work too well in x64, but I gathered there must be a way in the 32-bit version.
I have tried in WMP, PDVD7.3 Ultra, and Zoomplayer.
No matter what I do in sounddrivers, ac3-filters and other setting found littered over the system I only get 2 channels. I get no sound at all in PDVD7.3 if playing a HD-DVD, but the same 2-channel problem with everything else.

Now, I do get decent playback performance now, but ReadyBoost really messed things up. I canot fathom why the Readyboost memory was at all involved in playing back HD-video content. As soon as I disabled ReadyBoost I got performance.

Anyway, the funny thing about the Audio-bit is that now I get the reciever to light up all channels when using SPDIF out, but it does not recognice DTS or DD. And still there is only 2-channel audio.

So I was hoping anyone had the settings needed to get multichannel SPDIF with any or all of these players and any or all of the three digital outs (ATI HDMI, RealtekHD, Auzentech), or if I just need to get those cables for analogue out until things improve...
... and I'm just assuming analogue out works.

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[burfadel]

If readyboost slowed down your computer your USB stick probably isn't as fast as it should be. Its vital for readyboost to have quick random read/write times, some sticks that are fast for copying large files fail the readyboost test. An Apacer HT203 is supposedly by far the best stick currently for Readyboost.

Another factor to consider is the USB on your computer, on some chipsets readyboost works fast but the USB causes a latency affect on the rest of the computer, which sounds like what you're experiencing. Like there's USB polling frequency and everything as well, if you drop that down it may make things a lot better (but then again it may slow down USB mice). etc etc.

[SDplus]

No, it's the absolute fastest one on the market. I did a lot of research. It's quite fast. It seemed like it tried to buffer all the HD-content that was playing, and since I was trying with some of the toughest material I had, then it couldn't buffer fast enough. No flash-memory is fast enough to buffer demanding HD-content. It was really stupid. Once the Readyboost was gone, it was alright. The strange thing is that when I tried the same files in the previous x64 installation there was no activity on the readyboost drive. Only the x86 installation seems to think it's a good idea...

But it's ok. I added Readyboost only to satisfy curiosity. I have 4 GB ram (now fabulously reduced to 3 GB usable), and it shouldn't be any major difference at all anyway, even if it was working ok. Now I have a 4 GB flashdrive I can actually use... :)

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson