Ntsc -> Pal

[apophys]

Hello everyone,

I've been asking people around the web, but nobody seems to have a solution to my problem.

I have a lot of tapes recorded with a Canon ZR90 NTSC camera. Due to some unfortunate events, I do not have it anymore. I have purchased a Canon MD160 PAL camera. To my surprise :D, the old tapes returned wrongly interpreted frames. An example is below. There is no option in the camera to make it interpret the data stream as NTSC instead of PAL.

Is there a way to convert the PAL stream to NTSC on my computer?

I was thinking that all I need to do is get the raw data from the PAL stream and then dump it in a NTSC container.

I have no experience with video processing, but I do with programming. Therefore, if such a conversion (or smth similar) is possible, I am willing to write the software.

[bb]

As far as I know, you can't read NTSC DV with a PAL camcorder (and vice versa). Maybe you can borrow an NTSC model.

bb

[cedocida]

Looking at your image, indeed it seems to carry valid NTSC DV data which is wrongly decoded using the PAL mode.
Can you upload some compressed frames (e.g. cut with Virtualdub and direct stream copy)?

[WorBry]

As far as I know, you can't read NTSC DV with a PAL camcorder (and vice versa) bb

You can. Here's a trick I discovered sometime ago for capturing NTSC DV from a PAL camcorder

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=821949#post821949

Edit: It seems that not all camcorders have this dual format capability. Fortunately, my old Sony DCR-PC115E does. Appararently, the Panasonic NV-GSXXX camcorders dont. Dont know about Canon and the others. However, if you are at least getting uncorrupted playback on the camcorder LCD, chances are the 'trick' will work.

[bb]

Thank you, WorBry - I didn't know that! Every day you learn something new...

bb

[WorBry]

Yeah, it's quite a handy feature. Glad I held onto my old Sony cam. You can also dub to it from an NTSC camcorder.

[apophys]

Hello,

Thank you very much for your help. Here is a small portion of a DV file: http://conspro.ro/2go.avi

WorBry , I will try your method later today.

[apophys]

I've tried the trick with Ulead Studio 11 and it does not work. I start the playback then hit the capture button. The capture manager pauses a little then stops the tape and initiates playback. Then it returns: video source in inconsistent format.

[WorBry]

I'm not in front of the PC I use for encoding right now, but:

1. Do you at least get uncorrupted playback on the camcorder LCD? If not, then your camcorder cannot read the NTSC DV stream and its a non-starter. If it does playback OK, then you've got a chance.

2. I'm not sure if you mean the Capture tab (that opens the Capture screen) or the Capture Video button (that starts the capture). If the latter, try starting playback before opening the Capture screen itself.

3. Cant recall off the top of my head, if there is a setting for default capture format in the Preferences/Options. If there is, set it to NTSC. I know there's one for editing, but I doubt that affects capture.

Best I can do I'm afraid, other than suggesting that you find someone with a Pal Sony cam that read NTSC or a dual format deck.

[apophys]

1. No, I get the same thing on the LCD as in then picture above
2. Capture tab then 'capture video' button.
3. For capture, it is not. (version 11)

However, because of the fact that I get an image, though scrambled, makes me believe that the camera sends the entire data stream from the tape, but it is dumped into a wrong format container. Therefore it can be only a matter of copying the raw data from the file and dumping it into a NTSC container...

[cedocida]

I've investigated some time in your material, e.g.:
1.) convert to raw PAL frames (144000 Bytes)
2.) take first 120000 Bytes (=NTSC frame)
3.) decode as NTSC DV
==> picture looks better in small regions (superblocks) but still some regions are not decoded.
I wonder what the cam is doing here. The entire PAL DV frame is filled with some data and at specific positions, there are DIF-Blocks a' 80 Bytes missing, so that you get the decoded picture above with a border at the bottom.
For now I have no idea how to correctly reorder the blocks to get a valid NTSC-DV frame.
Additional, in your DV-AVI there are gaps in the timecode, which may be due to dropped frames.

[Hectic]

I have the same sort of situation right now. My Dad went to Europe a couple weeks ago on vacation. His NTSC DV camcorder crapped out while in Germany, he bought another camcorder unaware of the PAL/NTSC difference.

The solution i'm after is how to compile an NTSC DVD from the PAL DV files. I've tried to capture in NTSC within Pinnacle studio, (you can change the capture settings), yet the output file is still in PAL format.

If anyone has any solutions please share them.

[bb]

Hectic,

your problem might sound similar, but it is a completely different issue. You must perform a PAL to NTSC conversion, which can be done either through some advanced methods using AviSynth, or by re-rendering the DV stream as NTSC DV, which your favourite NLE hopefully can do in a pleasing manner.
PAL to NTSC conversion involves a decrease in resolution (720x576 -> 720x480) and an increase in frame rate (25 fps -> 29,98 fps). The first can result in a slightly blurrier picture, the latter causes some "stuttering" if done the easy way (there are more advanced techniques using motion estimation, though).

bb

[Hectic]

Thanks for the response. What I ended up doing is using Studio 10 instead of v9. v10 has the option to force NTSC or PAL when starting a project. The output is a little jittery, but my father seems to be fine with it. Personally, it would bother me if it were my camcorder and footage, but i'm a lot pickier than he is when it comes to this type of thing.

Sorry to hijack the thread, I knew I didn't have the same exact problem, but I didn't want to clutter the boards with a thread discussing something so similar. Maybe I should have..