IVTC+(DE)INTERLACED VIDEO ~ Please help

[eEXPERTxtreme]

hello. 1st of all, I apologize if I haven't put this thread in right forum part, 'cause I really couldn't decide where this should belong to..

Anyway, here it is:
I know basics of deinterlacing and inverse telecine..
But I still have a problem I can't quite solve...
For inverse telecine, I use TMPGEnc, 'cause it's the best IVTC program I ever tried.

okay, so.... I have a dvd... it is actually a dvd containing anime episodes in japanese language. But, it is released as region-free dvd, in America. (unoriginal dvd); It is a NTSC DVD, frame rate 30000/1001

Some of the episodes are like this:
they are both telecined and interlaced... which means, perfectly telecined episodes, which can be perfectly IVTCed with TMPGEnc. They do have the 3:2 pattern when I browse frames in VirtualDubMod.

BUT, unfotunately, some episodes (actually most of them) are like this:
They are telecined, but don't seem to be interlaced. TMPGEnc reports them still as interlaced episodes. When I browse frames in VirtualDubMod, they DO have the 3:2 pattern, just like they are telecined... BUT, I see no interlaced lines... So, I open one of these episodes in TMPGEnc, try IVTC, but it cannot IVTC because the video doesn't have interlaced lines... Instead of keeping 1 frame, then droping one, keeping 1, dropping 2... (1:1:1:2:1:1:1:2 pattern), it produces this pattern: keeping 1, dropping 1, keeping 1, dropping 1, keeping 1, dropping 3, keeping 1,... (1:1:1:1:1:3:1:1:1:1:1:3 pattern), AND one of the frames/fields kept has overlaying images... (actually a deinterlaced version of telecined frame)...

I got an idea, and did this: I took one of the perfectly telecined episodes (that can normally be IVTCed), and deinterlaced it with simple Deinterlace filter in virtualdubmod. Then I tried IVTCing the deinterlaced video I got, but I couldn't IVTC it properly, and I got the SAME pattern: 1:1:1:1:1:3:1:1:1:1:1:3 pattern, just like with the raw episodes from dvd, that I simply tried IVTCing, but that weren't interlaced.

So, my conclusion was that whoever burned episodes on DVD I bought, they deinterlaced some episodes before/while burning. That means, they took perfectly telecined episodes, deinterlaced them, and burnt them on DVD. Yeah, TMPGEnc still reports them as INTERLACED, but I see no interlaced lines, only 3:2 pattern.

I wonder if there is any way I can interlace such episodes, without changing frame rate or frame number... Does anyone know if I can interlace episodes like that? And if yes, will it help restore the natural telecined video, so I can properly IVTC it? That would be awesome :>

Also, if this isn't possible, is there any other way to properly IVTC such videos?

[neuron2]

I'm willing to help you but first I have to establish that your source is legit. You wrote:

I have a dvd... it is actually a dvd containing anime episodes in japanese language. But, it is released as region-free dvd, in America. (unoriginal dvd) Who released it and do they have the right to copy and sell it? Please provide a link to where you got it.

[45tripp]

You can set your own pattern manually in tmpg.
ctrl+p

[eEXPERTxtreme]

I got it from http://shop.hkdvdstore.com/ , it doesn't matter what item exactly, and, ADV released the DVD (so, yea, they have all rights). they first released that anime in volumes, region 1, and now they released it in a box , region free.

About the pattern: I apologize, 'cause I now realize I wrote the wrong thing T.T.
What I meant was: when I open Inverse Telecine window in TMPGEnc, while video opened is perfectly telecined, it SPLITS frames into 1a,1b,2a,2b in a way that 1 is fine, 1 interlaced, 1 fine, 1 interlaced, 1 unneeded progressive copy, 1 progressive, ... (1:1:1:2 pattern).. I mean, I am talking about the way TMPGEnc splits the frames into a and b parts, before I click Auto-Setting, and then Start.

When I open telecined, but deinterlaced video in TMPGEnc, go to Inverse Telecine window, it splits frames into a and b parts differently, 1 frame is proggresive, 1 frame is interlaced, 1 progressive, 1 int, 1 pro, 3 int, 1pro with overlaying images (former fields),... (1:1:1:1:1:3 pattern). Fields are split differently before I click START to automatically choose which fields stay, which go... Can I reinterlace the video, so it can be restored to previously perfectly telecined interlaced video?

[neuron2]

I'm not really interested in TMPGEnc IVTC, nor do I know anything about it. However, if you want to post a link to a fragment of your VOB that is problematic, I can look at it and tell you if there are any pathologies, and suggest possible alternative handling that might succeed.

[Abond]

When I browse frames in VirtualDubMod, they DO have the 3:2 pattern, just like they are telecined... BUT, I see no interlaced lines...
AFAIK 3:2 pattern in VDM can be checked when you look at the frames and find 3 progressive frames followed by two interlaced frames. But you said you don't see interlaced lines. How you determine that there is pattern then? It could be 29.97 progressive stream...

[eEXPERTxtreme]

Abond: take some telecined-interlaced video, but don't IVTC it, just deinterlace it. ANd open it in vitualdubmod. YOu'll see a pattern: 3 normal frames, 2 frames with OVERLAYING images (this happens when you deinterlace before IVTCing), 3 normal frames, 2 with 2 overlaying images, etc....

Btw, I asked you if I can REINTERLACE such episodes... DO you know of any tool/program/plugin/script/etc. that can simply INTERLACE a video. Yeah, INTERLACE, not deinterlace. I mean, there HAS to be something that can INTERLACE video(s). If you DO know of such program/tool/etc. , please tell me. Thank you~

In other words.... let's assume you have a perfectly telecined video, which is interlaced too... And, instead of using inverse telecine on it, you accidentally use deinterlace... that way, redundant frames are still there, and you have frames with overlaying images. So, you deinterlaced instead of IVTCed... Let's take the video you got. Let's say you may only use the video you made. But you did it all wrong... you deinterlaced instead of IVTCed... Now if you try IVTCing, it won't IVTC properly, because there will be frames remaining with overlaying images... So, in order to fix that, and you may only use the video you got, what should/could you do? Is there a way you can undo the deinterlation? In other words, is there a way you can REinterlace the deinterlaced video you made (the video you accidentally deinterlaced)? I mean, now you have deinterlaced video that should have been IVTCed first, but okay you did it wrong by deinterlacing it instead... now fields can't be properly recognized inside the frames by IVTC programs, since there are no interlaced artifacts, due to deinterlation. SO, you want to INTERLACE the DEINTERLACED video you got. If you INTERLACE it, you may "undo" the deinterlation. SO, you may again get INTERLACED video. If that's possible, THEN you will be able to IVTC it after all, because you will have interlaced video.

SO, how do I INTERLACE deinterlaced (progressive) video, that was accidentally deinterlaced instead of IVTCed first?

[45tripp]

You can set your own pattern manually in tmpg.
ctrl+p
Which by the way is 50 times faster than auto.
Just sounds like hard telecine to me. (edit: ok missed the "no interlaced lines")
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/tmpg-ivtc.htm

Neuron2 offered to look at a sample....

gl

[neuron2]

SO, how do I INTERLACE deinterlaced (progressive) video, that was accidentally deinterlaced instead of IVTCed first? You don't want to reinterlace it; that's the long route to China. You want to recover the film progressive frames. Look into FixBlendIVTC.

[eEXPERTxtreme]

Thanks, neuron2.

I got this:
################################
## FixBlendIVTC by MOmonster ##
################################


## FixBlendIVTC is a blend replacing / frame restoring function for doubleblends, caused by blenddeinterlacing
## of telecined sources. It will only work for this special case and is not created for any other conversions.
##
## Use import("FixBlendIVTC.avs") in your script and load the necessary filters to be able using this function
##
## required filters:
## - Average
## - mt_masktools
## - removegrain
## - TIVTC or Decomb for decimating (external)
## version:
## - v0.9b - 20.12.2006

And I can't find the filter named "Average" anywhere >.>
Do you maybe know where I can get it?

[manono]

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic330377-30.html#1710860

[eEXPERTxtreme]

thank you alot! :)

[eEXPERTxtreme]

I got it to work!
Also, first I used it with default settings, and I got:
3 nice frames, 1 ugly noised, 3 nice, 1 ugly.... but the frames with blended-fields have gone!

BUT, I tried different options and now I got a GREAT quality video, successfully IVTCed, with no frames containing overlaying images:

import("FixBlendIVTC.avs")
AviSource("RAW.avi")
ConvertToYV12()
FixBlendIVTC(post=3)
Decimate(cycle=5,quality=0)

This works awesomly :) Thanks alot, guys!

[neuron2]

Glad to hear you were successful!

Rock on.