Online versus in store purchasing

[Gerard V]

I just had to share this (a bit of a rant). For some reason I have recently been involved in discussions with some folk (one a taxi driver) on the merits of on-line versus retail store shopping. They all put forward the idea that if you need help and advice then going to a store and being served by a human was the best option.

My 7 year old Pioneer DVD player died recently, and after a few weeks of using a PS2 as a DVD player I was fed up. My wife and I wanted a player and now (wet weekend). So we went to two different large chainstores that specialised in appliances. At each I asked who was the expert on DVD players in the store. In each case the reply was "what did I want to know". So I asked differently, who can tell me the important differences between the different players in each price category and which had the best picture etc. In each store the "salesperson" argued vehemently that there was no picture quality difference between players at all, and one even said that they had checked this. The differences between players were only the features offered (e.g. MP3 playback or HDMI etc.).

Basically, the service they offered was to read the "specs" from the display card, but I really don't need people to read to me. I read quite well on my own.

The reason that this has stayed with me, is that if they are actually correct (oh dear), then the best place to buy is surely on the web, because there the features are generally enumerated more thoroughly.

It strikes me that, sadly, those people who told me they would go to a store for "advice" are being misled by the people they are relying on. And moreover, it seems dumb for the store to emphasise that the sales points of any device are the very points that are addressed best by web shopping. The only purpose in going to a store (other than cash and carry), is that you can see and hear the device before you purchase it. But if sight and sound are not relevant to purchasing media devices then why go to a store at all.

I'm frustrated too that the people I had been discussing web shopping with, are going to stores and being fed the pap that I was fed. But it does explain why so many devices are now loaded with features I'd never use, because those are, apparently, the only things that count when purchasing.

Thanks for that. I feel better now.

(Oh, and despite the half tonne of gear, 2 computers and other high tech I use for my comedy stage hypnosis show, I am something of a techo-luddite, and still have a love for vacuum tubes - so features don't for me count unless I need them).

[CWR03]

I've had the same experience - when I was shopping for a TV recently , the clerk knew less about the products than the display card or the box itself could tell him. That was at Wal-Mart. There aren't many places where the clerks are any better, but small electronics stores and appliance stores are usually different. Unfortunately they tend to be much more expensive. I don't like to waste the time of the employees at the small stores when I know I won't be buying there, so I'll usually go to a big chain where they have everything on display for me to play with, pick out what I like, then go home and order it online.

[niknik]

Sadly it is true.
Although I admit there may be people out there, working in such stores, that really known what they're talking about - most of my (and some friend's) personal experiences tend to prove otherwise.

I still recall, a long time ago, being in a "specialized" computer shop and hearing the employee telling a customer of the advantages of the (then) new SB AWE 32 sound card:
"You know, audio CD's have 16bit sound, right?... THIS card has 32bit sound! Just imagine! TWICE the quality!"
I had to get out running, not to laugh in front of them.

Poor souls, those who fall into their tales...

Now, even regular folks, routinely check what they want to buy on the internet before going to the store - and when they do go there, it's not unusual to know more about the product than any employee.

Sure, they are not "obligated" to know every detail about every device they have (though they should, if the store wants to provide a quality service) - but at least, don't pretend to!

[Gerard V]

Yes, I forgot to say that the thing that really takes the cake is when they don't admit to not knowing all that much about a product range, or worse, they think they do know and what they know ain't so. I really dislike being told B.S. and lies, especially by people who want to take my money.

To my mind, just as all CD players sound different, all DVD players look and sound different (picture and audio quality). The differences may be slight, but they exist and can make a real difference to the enjoyability of a device.

In the end I bought another pioneer player for NZ$225 (that's about USD170) but would have paid three times as much for a better quality device if they had such a thing and were able to "sell" me on it. In the end I spent $225 as a holding pattern and will upgrade again later when I buy a decent screen. But I think I'll do that purchase by way of web research and reviews.

[niknik]

Maybe you should have just hypnotized them, and made them stutter whenever they tried to b.s. a customer! ;)
Eheheh

[Sirber]

You can:
* chose online and go to the store to get it
* don't talk to sales people in the store

;)

[Nematocyst]

I use web research to match my feature requirements with the device. I use stores to determine aesthetics and general quality. Then I purchase wherever I can get the best price. Occasionally, I'm willing to pay more in store in order to be able to easily return the device if I'm still not clear if it's what I want.

Usually, if you know exactly what you want, the web stores offer the best price.

[Trahald]

Those guys are never going to say one guy is the best, as Sirber said, they are salesman. The best salesman they have (ie makes the most for the store) can be the guy that knows the least about the products. They are not giving a sale away because 'Rick' keeps on top of print and online product reviews.

Most of the store traffic is for the reasons of cash and carry, and also it is nice to touch and feel what you are plunking your cash down for. (1 reason why online will never 100% replace brick and mortor) the average person going into a store isnt like you and will eat the BS up with a spoon and gladly turn over their wallet onto the counter. They will keep the store packed with 'salesman' instead of experts.

I have generally researched online myself and touch feel and buy at the store (at least for consumer electronics.) Pc parts i usually can wait for and buy online as touch and feel isnt really an option anyways

[Dr.Khron]

The economics of retail are brutal.

Retails, especially electronics retailers, simply cannot afford to have well-trained sales staff. As several people have mentioned, sales training provides a much higher return on investment then product training does.

Its all about human behavior.

[Toti]

As I was going thru the University I worked at Circuit City, Best Buy and lastly Tweeter Stores. They all work the same way. Hire young kids that will work for $8/hour and tell them to push extended warranties and services (100% profit).

You don't beleive me?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070329/news_1n29circuit.html

These stores are no longer based on comission its true but they keep track of the warranty & services you sell. If you don't sell enough 6%~10% are grounds to get fired.

Do they train their associates on technology? NO, Is this really what the costumer needs NO, is this really providing good customer service NO. Do they care? NO. They only care about the profit they are going to make of you.

If you don't beleive me go into a CompUSA, Circuit City or Tweeter, Best Buy (doesn't really put pressure, this is why is best to shop there). Pretend you are interested on a laptop and see how much they push services and their beautiful CityAdvantage.

[Gerard V]

I agree with Trahald that bricks and mortar stores will never be replaced for some things (such as clothing or sofas) where the touch and feel is as important as other aspects of the purchase. But even there the web stores that offer free returns etc. are making a dent. But the economics of retail require approx 100% markup (50% margin) and that margin gives the web stores a huge opportunity for discounting.

Trahald is right too that the stores train people to sell, not to inform. They are successful because consumers are, for the most part, ignorant about what they purchase.

[check]

Sorry, can you explain what picture quality difference there is between DVD players? They should all decode functionally identical streams, the only difference is that some 'upscaling' ones will run it through a bilinear resizer first.

[shakey]

Digital to Analogue conversions can cause different players to give images that look different, as each manufacturer will probably use a different brand/model of DAC. Though this becomes unimportant if you use some kind of digital interface such as HDMI for video and SPDIF for audio, since then no conversion takes place.

[Brother John]

Trahald is right too that the stores train people to sell
Then you're lucky. At least you get trained salesmen. If you enter one of the big electronics chains here in Germany, you learn very quickly not to expect any technical knowlegde from the staff. You learn as well that they're not trained salesmen either. Some hardly manage to keep a conversation going.

That's why I sometimes wonder: Why do they have staff besides the guys at the counter? Is the normal customer really not able to figure out on his own that product A is bigger and costs only 100 quid while product B is bigger and better, but costs 150?

I only ever met one exception from this sad store reality. A guy who really knew his technical stuff. And in 5 minutes he also could extract from you all the information he needed to show you the device that fit you requirements best. He didn't stay long, though. Not that I was surprised...

[Gerard V]

Sorry, can you explain what picture quality difference there is between DVD players? They should all decode functionally identical streams, the only difference is that some 'upscaling' ones will run it through a bilinear resizer first.
Good question. The differences occur for me, because part of my video stream is still analogue - and differences in DACs and other aspects of the build do make a difference. You may be correct in implying that in an all digital world there may be no difference. Wouldn't it have been great if the salespeople had clarified that point with me first? But not one of them did, or even had the knowledge to ask your question or make the point you make.

[itchione]

You can't beat 'touch and feel' for any product, electronics included.
By all means do your research at the various web forums but at the end of the day you need to trust your own eyes, ears and feel (touch).
Brick and mortar stores are the best in providing this touch and feel.
Decent bricks and mortar stores even provide knowledgeable staff.
(i guess that depends on where you go and bargin basement stores are not the ones for such knowleadge).

Unfortunately some go to the knowleadgeable stores with no intent to buy and take up the sales peoples time only to buy on-line for some small amount less.

In time we will all collectively get what we have sown, most retail will be on-line, high returns will be factored into prices and prices will probably be somewhat higher than otherwise would have been the case.
This will make the original promise of cheap internet shopping somewhat hollow.

Cheers, Itchione