Few MPC questions

[JarrettH]

Which resize should I be using in MPC for best quality? There are several bicubic which say A=...what is that?

If I am playing a DVD with PureVideo will MPC do the resize when I double click to full screen?

What's the difference between ...render surfaces in 2D/3D? I don't understand the tool tip!

Why use YUV mixing mode?


Thanks everyone :devil:

[burfadel]

The purevideo decoder, at least for MPC, doesn't seem to work as well as it should. Check the cpu usage using purevideo, then re-enable the internal filter in MPC, the internal filter uses less CPU! The resize function works after the video has already been decoded, so even if the benefit of Purevideo was at high definition resolutions for most content the benefit would not be seen.

Bicubic 0.60 is supposed to be the sharpest as written elsewhere in another thread.

[ggab]

so, shall i use purevideo decoder nowadays? with current MPC releases?

i have a 7600GT AGP and when i play dvds, i have a 20% cpu load with a sempron 3400+, with default instalation of k-lite mega 3.6.5 (usssing Cyberlink (only i get Software mode))

[Kado]

You guys may be a little confused. Purevideo is a technology builtin in nvidia gpus starting in 6 series. the nvidia purevideo decoder (software) only decodes mpeg2 in both hardware or software. mpc has builtin dxva only for h264 videos..
Hardware acceleration depends on the files played, gpu and codec support. like there's no dxva1 for vista for h264 and not all x264 encodes can be hardware accelerated even by geforce 8 series or radeon 38xx series.
also the most sharp is "-1" and "0" is the least sharp for bicubic ps2.0

[kutjong]

YUV mixing makes rendering faster, saving bandwidth. It doesn't work correctly on my Geforce 7600 though. I get these weird jaggies: picture (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/Mara-23/yv12vmr9copy.jpg)
How it should look like: picture (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/Mara-23/haalicopy.jpg)

It works fine on my Ati X800 XT. Probably driver related.

[ggab]

i have the 93.81 beta drivers, i guess they are a bit faster in games... with my 7600gt agp.

did you recommend these settings?


in 2nd sshot, i'm showing the SoftWare Profile used by Cyberlink with a DVD play.... :devil:

how can i get the HW profile?

do i need to install NVIDIA PureVideo Decoder Platinum (Vers. 1.02-223, 28-06-06) ?


http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/776/20080125040718lg6.png

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3662/20080125040807ds2.png

[Leak]

It works fine on my Ati X800 XT. Probably driver related.
Definitely. With YUV mixing checked, the card gets sent YUY2 or YV12 data and has to convert it to RGB itself, which often happens without interpolation for the chroma that's stored at lower resolution than the luma.

With RGB mixing, the conversion is done in software and correctly interpolated.

[Kado]

@ggab

Use "... render video in 3D" and use bicubic ps2.0. also use media player classic homecimena (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1089589#post1089589), has several new features and updates.

[raynor]

@ggab
Use "... render video in 3D" and use bicubic ps2.0.


Hmm, I have always used "render video in 2D".
Which resizer is used in that case? Bilinear ?

So ... would you say that using "render in 3D" together
with bicubic ps 2.0 is the best option in any case
(because it is the sharpest) ?

Which of the bicubic levels is the best (i.e the sharpest) ?

slightly confused,
raynor

:stupid:

[Kado]

@raynor

In 3D mode the frame is made of two triangles or something like that and taking advantage of your 3D GPU capabilities. Also I suppose that bicubic has higher qualiy in comparison to bilinear.

"Bicubic A=-1.0" is the most sharp possible.

Anyway I actually use Haali Renderer but that's just me. :D

[foxyshadis]

3D can actually cause slowdowns if you have AA, AF, AI, etc forced too high in the gpu driver control panel. Leave them at application controlled for movie watching.

If you really want sharper without as many artifacts, use something like ffdshow's lanczos resize, rather than a bicubic.

[CruNcher]

For the smoothest watching experience under Windows XP at least you should try the VMR9 Renderless Exclusive Mode available in MPCHC (Direct3D Fullscreen) and for Hardware accelleration in most DXVA based Decoders activate VMR9 Mixing without it most proably Hardware acelleration wont work in the Exclusive Rendering Mode (in that mode you get the lowest cpu usage and the lowest jitter possible) :)

Zoomplayer can directly be set to go into the Exclusive Mode when going fullscreen MPCHC can't do this yet which is a real pitty, you have to set it in the Output options or use STRG+F to activate it tough this mode is going to make it impossible to show options via Menus as they don't get rendered only overlays are possible in this Mode on the 3d Surfface tough it's bloddy fast :).
You can only exit this mode in MPCHC with STRG+C or ALT+X (Zoomplayer ESC) don't try todo via Menus you gonna open all kinds of stuff in the background and you could even close or delete something without knowing it :D

No commercial Player available nowdays is able to use that practicly only MPC-HC (works even with a OSD that shows for now stuff like Volume,Time and a Slidebar), Zoomplayer (No OSD but works) and Kmplayer (last time i tested it didn't worked)

http://s3.directupload.net/images/080218/s73dzpzi.png
http://s1.directupload.net/images/080218/btxsx8jy.png
http://s1.directupload.net/images/080218/cj9v3xap.png
http://s3.directupload.net/images/080218/53euupnr.png

Also a problem at least in MPC-HC in this mode is that the interface is only updateing as long as the video is running if the video is stoped nothing is gonna work (Video and Interface are 1 Layer) ;)

[Casimir666]

Hardware accelleration in most DXVA based Decoders activate VMR9 Mixing without it most proably Hardware acelleration wont work in the Exclusive Rendering Mode

DXVA perfectly works in Exclusive rendering mode ;)

[ggab]

What is needed to get Hardware accelerated MPEG-2 (DXVA...) decoding???

i have a geforce 7600GT AGP with 93.81 drivers

i just still get SW in the Profile in CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7) with a DVD play.... :(

[ggab]

up... (just i wanna know how to get it)

thanks

[kutjong]

Have you tried with different renderers? DXVA should definitely work with VMR9.
Otherwise, you could try nvidia's purevideo MPEG-2 decoder, I'm using this with DXVA for DVDs.

[ggab]

but only CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7) with a DVD play has Hardware accelerated MPEG-2 (DXVA...) decoding

nvidia's purevideo MPEG-2 decoder require the installation of WMP9 for installing it... (i do not have it)

could somebody with a geforce 7600/7800/7900 help me?
is it possible to have the HW profile?
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3662/20080125040807ds2.png

[Speedy_2]

but only CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7) with a DVD play has Hardware accelerated MPEG-2 (DXVA...) decoding

nvidia's purevideo MPEG-2 decoder require the installation of WMP9 for installing it... (i do not have it)



Not True.
I have a GF6800 + PureVideo .223 + driver 169.21 + XP + MPC .9.1 and the hardware acceleration works just fine. CPU load is half of the MPC internal decoder and PureVideo provides a very good Adaptive Interlacing (not sure about the internal decoder's features here)
I've never had any issues with any driver or PureVideo or MPC version, it has always worked immediately.
Oh, and I use Overlay. It is the fastest mode for me and the one with the least trouble when using TV out.

WMP9 is on my system by default, but I never use it. I've never heard that you need it for PureVideo.


speedy_2

[ggab]

thnks speedy...

i've read good comments about Purevideo...

i dont wanna install the required WMP9...

this is what i get:

There is no installation of Windows Media Player 9 detected.
To make this product work properly you need Windows Media Player 9 installed.
Select OK to exit the installation program.


maybe there is a way...

[audyovydeo]

Still a lot of confusion surrounding PureVideo, apparently.

Why not go back to the sources :

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_purevideo_requirements.html


PureVideo’s MPEG-2 decode acceleration and post-processing effects are available through the Microsoft DirectX VA application programming interface (API). It can be experienced with DirextX VA compatible video applications such as InterVideo WinDVD, and CyberLink PowerDVD.


Notice it does not specify DXVA 1 or 2 (ie XP or Vista). That's one point that has yet to be settled conclusively imo.


PureVideo's decode acceleration for unprotected H.264 (also known as MPEG-4 Part 10 or AVC) content is available through a special application programming interface (API). The following applications feature the PureVideo H.264 decode acceleration:

* CyberLink PowerDVD Ultra
* InterVideo WinDVD 8 Platinum


My reading of this is that H.264 acceleration DOES NOT go through DXVA. Expert comments welcome.



Note:
Microsoft® Windows® XP and Windows® XP Media Center Edition already contain a WMV video CODEC – No additional codec are required in order to experience PureVideo’s WMV decode acceleration.


That settles that.


Other reminders:

1. this document contains the most detailed list of video functions that get hardware acceleration, ordered by card model :

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/CP/11036/PureVideo_Product_Comparison.pdf


2. This one is an tech brief describing the first implementation of PureVideo (ie MPEG2 only). The most technical doc I could locate, but sadly predates the H.264 stuff.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/TB_purevideo.html



Now I *still* cannot figure out, empirically, if MPC-HC under XP gives me hardware acceleration of *anything*, let alone x264.

My playback CPU figures using VLC are systematically lower than MPC-HC, so I have trouble comparing empirical results.

Also I have a 7x series, which nominally accelerates only 2 of the 4 functions. I would guess an 8x card user would know immediately if there is acceleration or not.

cheers
audyovydeo

[Speedy_2]

i dont wanna install the required WMP9...



I think this is some stupid hardcoded check. I recommend installing the damn thing. You don't have to use it. If you set your file associations right (to MPC), the beast will sleep peacefully on your hard drive and never wake up ;-)

@audyovydeo
We were only talking about MPEG-2, not AVC or WMV.
And also not about the new internal MPC-HC DXVA-capable codecs, which are still pretty beta.

speedy_2

[raynor]

Bicubic 0.60 is supposed to be the sharpest as written elsewhere in another thread.


"Bicubic A=-1.0" is the most sharp possible.

Soooo... now as you two guys say exactly the opposite,
which one right ? Which bicubic resizer setting IS the
sharpest, after all ???:confused::confused:

regards,
raynor

[sheppaul]

Higher value means more sharp. Why not compare it in your eyes? Isn't it working? :)