How to add another subtitle stream to a DVD?

[bubuajs]

I have encounter this issue and I am so curious to know how can I do it.

I have this original DVD that I purchased. The audio language is in English but it doesnt have Spanish subs. So I translated the entire thing and made a softsub file with the translation, so my mom can watch the movie and understand it.

My question is: How can I take an original DVD, rip it and add my created subtitle to it and burn it again so it has the Spanish subs I created while is still the original DVD?

I was thinking you make this possible by editting the ripped .ifo file, right? But how can I do this?

If you can help me, that would be great...

Thank you so much!

[r0lZ]

I was thinking you make this possible by editting the ripped .ifo file, right? But how can I do this?No, the subtitles are in the VOB files (but are also referenced by the IFOs.)
You have to convert your subtitle file to SUP format, and demux the streams of the original VOB files, then remux them with your new SUP file.
See post 3 of this thread (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=80360) for more info. (Of course, as you have already your subtitles in text format, you don't have to convert the original subpic stream to text with SubRip.)

[bubuajs]

r0|Z, you cant imagine how much I really thank you for your time to reply my question. But I am still a bit lost on how to do all of that. Is there a tutorial that you know about on how to do it? It can be in this forum or another. I saw the other thread and understood more about the process but I still need some guide.

Would you mind giving me a hand please? I will own you BIG time...

[r0lZ]

I don't know if there are guides on that subject, but IMO it's not very difficult.

Here is a modified version of my mini guide, for you:

Demux the original movie using PgcDemux (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/dvdtools.htm).
Open the IFO file of the original DVD. Usually, the main movie is in VTS_01_0.IFO.
Select the right PGC in the dropdown list. You can determine if it's the right PGC by looking at the duration of the PGC. It should be equal to the duration of your movie. If you can't find it, load another VTS_**_0.IFO file. Remember which IFO you have used, as you will need it later.
Also, if there are several PGCs in the IFO, you're unlucky, as reimporting the modified title in the original DVD will be difficult.
Tick Demux video stream, and leave the other options as they are.
Browse for an empty output folder.
Click Process!

Convert your subpic file produced by SubRip to a subpic stream (.SUP format) using Subtitle Creator (http://sourceforge.net/projects/subtitlecreator/).
Use File -> Open text subtitles to load your subtitle file.
Use File -> Open palette (IFO) and load the same IFO you have used in step 1.
You can play a bit with the setups if you want to modify the font, colors, position... of the subpics, but that's usually not necessary.
Use File -> Save SUP As to create the new SUP file. You can save it in the output folder created during step 1.

Remux all streams using MuxMan (http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/).
Click on the [...] button in the Video section to add the m2v file created by PgcDemux.
Similarly, load the audio streams. If there are several audio streams, load them in the correct order!
You should also select the right language in the first dropdown list.
Similarly, load the subpic streams, again in the correct order!
Of course, you have to either replace an existing subpic stream by the SUP file produced at step 2, or add it at the end of the list.
Again, select the right language codes.
Use File -> Import Chapter to load the celltimes.txt file produced by PgcDemux.
Select an empty destination folder. (It must exist already.)
Click start, and have a cup of coffee.


At this point, you should be able to play the DVD produced by Muxman with a software player. Verify your subtitles.
This DVD contains the movie only. To import the movie back in the original DVD, some work is still needed. I'll explain that later.
Please tell me if everything went OK, and if there are several PGCs in the IFO. The rest of the explanation depends on that.

[bubuajs]

ok... lets go in order...

This is just a question, if there are several PGCs in the IFO, what will change then?

The first step was done perfectly. It only had one PGCs, the ifo file. On the second one was ok until the save as part, when I hited it, it didn't do anything. I hited Save only and it saved it.

On part 3, it was ok. I should have 2 sup files, right? The original one, with the English subs, and the one I created, right? I loaded each in their own stream number.

When I tested the DVD both subtitles where the same. And they looked wrong. It was showing only the outline of the sub with a bright red color.

If we can fix how the subs look and if I can show the English one and the Spanish one in their own place, all will be ok.

Edit: I tried a second time with only adding the sup file that I created without the one that was on the folder already. The Spanish subtitle appeared. But it didn't have the original English one. But this time it had a white inside color with a red outline.

[blutach]

Fixing how they look is a breeze. Import the CLUT from the original project to the final one.

From PgcEdit:

1. Double click on the title.
2. Click Copy all (on the left).
3. Open the remuxed project in PgcEdit. Do NOT close the first instance of PgcEdit.
4. Double click on the remuxed title.
5. Click Paste all.
6. Save and test.

As for getting your streams right, you need to add both streams in their correct order - Englsih first, then Spanish. And ensure the title and the domain stream attributes have an entry for both. To do this, your subtitles should looks something like 0 0 0 0 in stream 0 and 0 1 1 0 for stream 1. And the domain attributes for the subs should be English in stream 0 and Spanish in Stream 1. Set the stream attribues in PgcEdit's PGC Editor for the title. Teh set the IDs for the DSA (PgcEdit will promt you to do this).

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2641/04242007105945co5.png

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/531/04242007105903dq4.png

Regards

[r0lZ]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that you must select the display mode for the subpic in Muxman. Normally, a 16:9 movie can be displayed full screen on a 16:9 TV (display mode=Wide) or, for a 4:3 TV, either letterboxed (mode=LB) or in pan & scan (mode=PS), or both. When you add your subpic stream in muxman, you must specify for which mode(s) it is suitable. Since you have probably generated only one spanish subpic stream, you should enable all modes (although PS is usually not allowed for the main movie, so, theoretically, you don't need to enable it.)
Also, be sure to select subpic #2 when you add the spanish stream.
If you did that wrong, you can use blutach's method to fix the problem with PgcEdit. It's easy.

I forgot also the color palette thing. Blu is right. Just copy/paste it, and your colours should be fine. If, per chance, they are still wrong, use DVDSubEdit to change them. You can also click on the red color square in PgcEdit to change it to black. But don't spend too much time on that now. The problem might disappear in the final DVD, and anyway, you can fix it later.

This is just a question, if there are several PGCs in the IFO, what will change then?
It is extremely easy to replace the whole VTS with PgcEdit, if it has only one PGC.

On the other hand, when there are several PGCs in the same VTS, you must replace only the PGC that you have modified (the movie) without modifying the other PGCs. As everything is in the same set of VOB files, you have to replace the cells of the main movie with VobBlanker. That's a bit more complicated.

Luckily, we can use PgcEdit to do it. So, here is the last step, to import the modified title back in the original compilation.

Begin by creating an incremental backup, just for safety purposes. (Use File -> Backups -> New Incremental Backup.)
Click once on the main movie PGC, and use File -> Replace VTST Titles. Browse to the DVD created by Muxman and select VTS_01_0.IFO.
When PgcEdit asks if you want to keep the chapters and other stuff from the original DVD, answer yes.
Save and test.

That's all.

Of course, be sure to remove the Subpic Stream Change PUO in the main movie PGC, or you will not be able to select the spanish subtitles with the remote.
You might also have to fix the colors of the spanish subpics, as explained above.

[bubuajs]

I am getting almost everything ok but still some issue are appearing.

Would it be ok if I add you to my msn or aim messenger so we can discuss it as I go along? If you want or can of course...

Cause is really weird...

But thank you so much though!

[r0lZ]

Hum, I prefer to continue via this board, as your experience might benefit to other users. Thanks.

[bubuajs]

Yes, you are right. I am sorry.

Ok, the main problem are now the subtitles. Where can I find that window blutach was talking about? I know is inside PgcEdit, but how can I get to it after I opened the DVD?

Also, another problem I am encounter is that I add both .sup files, right? The english one gets move up like is overlapping with the spanish one even though they each appear at one time. Also, the colors I picked for the spanish subs in SubtitleCreator doesnt show as I want. And still, original .sup file that came with the DVD is not showing as it should. Is only as a red outline.

I guess if we fix that, then I can merge the edited vob to the original DVD but the steps you wrote before are a bit wrong it seems, cause I tried it and didnt work quite well.

[r0lZ]

To open the PGC Editor window, double-click on the Title PGC label in the left pane.
To open the Domain Streams Attributes window, right-click on the same label.

You have to add both subpic files in muxman, yes, but as two totally different subpic streams. Have you forgotten to select the second subpic radio button before adding it? You should not need to edit the subpic streams assignments in the PGC Editor if you did that correctly in muxman.

The english subpic will probably look right if you copy/paste the original CLUT from the original DVD. Do that also in the PGC Editor window. You can also edit each color individually.

[bubuajs]

This is quite funny... weirdness after weirdness is appearing...

Now when I test the movie in the player when it gets to a part where the subtitle should appear, it just freeze and crashes.

I think it was those "modes" thing that made it do this...

THOSE SUBS¡! DRIVING ME CRAZY!!! hehehe

[bubuajs]

r0|Z, I am having problems with the subs files.

I have been muxing like crazy. Trying with each file alone. Trying with different modes. Trying all the different method I could think of but nothing.

First this that the subs quality is horrible! It looks VERY bad. Also, the original subs that come from the DVD are appearing in the middle of the video and when I edited them in DVDSubEdit and bring them down, it makes the file corrupted. Also, I cant get the color right as well.

Lets try something. Here are the 2 subs files I have:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/eouz21

You can get them from there. Could you edit each one to make it look nice. With a nice inner color and outline. And then can you tell me what you did to each one so next time I can do it for myself.

Also, can you tell me more in detail about the subs modes please¿?

As always, thank you so much. I really cant express all the thanks you deserve.

[r0lZ]

First this that the subs quality is horrible! It looks VERY bad.
I agree! Have you really generated the spanish subtitles with Subtitle Creator?
Here are the setups I use: (They can be changed with the Format menu)
Video Format: PAL (set it to NTSC if needed)
Font: Microsoft Sans Serif, bold, 20 or 22.
Antialias filter: on
Then, don't forget to Open Palette (IFO), and select the IFO of your original DVD. The color boxes at the top right should change. Subtitle Creator should select the best ones automatically, but you can change them if you wish.
Anyway, remember: what you see is what you get. If the subpics look OK in Subtitle Creator, they will look OK in the final DVD.

Also, the original subs that come from the DVD are appearing in the middle of the video and when I edited them in DVDSubEdit and bring them down, it makes the file corrupted. Also, I cant get the color right as well.
You should NOT change the original file! If you are happy with thew original, leave it as it is. It will be exactly identical when remuxed.

Could you edit each one to make it look nice. With a nice inner color and outline.
No, I need the text subtitle file to generate a new SUP file.

[bubuajs]

Here is the .srt file, so you can try it out:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/y5pixy

I know what you mean about using the original subs from the DVD. If I don't touch that file, that should appear exactly the same. But is not like that. Is appearing in the middle of the video and with a red outline with a transparent inner color. Thats why I sent it to you, so you can check if there something wrong with the .sup file. Cause is really weird. As I watch the DVD, is the normal yellow with black border. I don't mind, but it doesn't look like that at all. But I guess this is the real mystery in all of this. Did you opened this one and checked it out?

Also, when I open the .srt in SubtitleCreator and then open the .ifo file, the colors doesn't change as you said it would. They should change into the format of the DVD right? With yellow and black border?

Also, where can I read more about the subtitle modes in MuxMan¿? (PS / LB / Wide ) I want to understand better what that is and I want to know which mode I should set the original subs and the added subs when muxing all back together. Cause I think is kind of important.

Also, I was going to mux another version with a new spanish subs and muxman is giving me this error:

Video decoder buffer underflowed 1 times.
Check c:/muxman.log for details.
Resulting DVD will probably not play smoothly.

When I went to the log it said this:

P-STD buffer underflow by 14628 bytes at 75908099, sector 262834.

What is this about? it gave me that message 3 times... any ideas?

[r0lZ]

OK, I made this one (http://home.tiscali.be/debie.roland/files/Spanish.zip). But since I don't have your original IFOs, I can't select the right colors. Anyway, that's easy to fix with PgcEdit or DVDSubEdit later. For now, just remux the original english subpic and this one.

(Note that I've added a bit of transparency on the subpic with DVDSubEdit. Usually, the effect is better than using full white subpics.)

[bubuajs]

is not working... I cant remux it... is giving me the error I wrote you up there, the "Multiplex operation Halted" error in muxMan.

Any ideas on how to fix that¿?

[r0lZ]

No, sorry, I don't know. It's probably related to the bitrate of the video stream. Try to mux with DVD Planner basic (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=110943) or IfoEdit.

[bubuajs]

ok, I am getting things to work at last!!! ABOUT TIME, EH¡!

2 more questions...

How can I edit the position of a sub stream inside PgcEdit? Cause the original DVD subs are still appearing in the middle of the video.

And How can I make the 2 subs look the same? Cause I did the copy all and paste all, and it only applied it to the first subs.

thank you so much!!! After I do this I can try and mix the remuxed thing with the original...

[r0lZ]

As always, do a backup first.

You can change the position of the subpics with DVDSubEdit. Move them only by an even number of lines, as otherwise, some problems can appear. Also, if your player has problems displaying the subpics after the operation, try also to Crop the Background of all subpics. Take care: there is no backup of the modified VOB files!
But, IMO, it is better to demux and remux the original subpics, without modifying them. That should work without problem.

For the color of the new subpic, it's relatively simple. Look at the subpics as they are displayed now with a software player, and note the 3 colors you can see: the foreground color, the outline, and, between them, the color used for the anti-aliasing effect. (You can also locate those colors with DVDSubEdit.) Then, double-click on the movie PGC in PgcEdit, and modify those colors to suit your needs.
If, per chance, you have one or several colors that are already used by the other subpic stream, you can't change them, or you will destroy the colors of the original subpics. In this case, you will have to modify the color index in DVDSubEdit.

[bubuajs]

r0lZ, we have a problem. Is it possible that .sup files come with protection or something¿? Cause every time I open the original .sup file that came with the dvd inside DVDSubEdit1.38 and change the vertical alignment and then save it; the saved file is corrupted. It doesn't work at all. But I still don't get why the original file, without being touch by me, is like this. I should look like it came. Is there another program like DVDSubEdit that lets you edit .sup files so we can try it with that one? Just to change the position on the screen.

[r0lZ]

Do not edit the sup file. Edit the final DVD directly. It's easier, and as far as I know, that works fine.

No, the sup files cannot be protected, and DVDSubEdit is the only tool able to edit sup files and the subpics of a DVD (without having to rebuild them completely.)

I don't understand why you have so much problems. IMO, replacing a subpic stream is easy and straightforward. I did it many times, without problem.
Also, DVDSubEdit has (almost) never crashed, although I did some beta tests for jeanl, and I have used it in very borderline situations! Furthermore, I have used it to modify the subpic stream generated by Subtitle Creator and available above in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=998760#post998760). No problem at all.

[Mtz]

Here is the .srt file, so you can try it out:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/y5pixy
When translating, just "translating" is not everything. There are also some technical specifications, but if you are using the english subtitle you should not break this specifications.
Before I'm converting a subtitle I always check it with Subtitle Workshop using "Ctrl+i". Downloaded your subtitle and using "Ctrl+i" (with my setting) and the new window gave me 430 errors in the srt. Not all errors are dangerous for your creation of your DVD, but some of them can. For example:
- subtitle 575 start at: 00:35:02,860 and finish it at: 00:31:05,467. The start time is greater than finish time. (I deleted this subpicure because also is not translated.
Another things:
- subtitle 566 have just some dots. Deleted.
- some subtitles with too short duration and you can read all words when watching the final DVD. Subtitles nr: 496, 569, 842, 874, 875, 887, 898, 921, 954, 1101, 1208, 1513, 1537, 1570, 1668

Here you have some subtitles based on your translation: http://www.sendspace.com/file/n6bqtd
- srt with all technicals errors corrected including: good durations, max. 2 lines and some other things
- 2 subpictures created from that srt file in NTSC and PAL position because I don't know if your DVD is PAL or NTSC and I'm using different settings for PAL or NTSC. But you can later adjust your position in DVDSubEdit if them are outside of the safe area.
- you forgot to add "!" and "?" at the start of some lines because in spanish them are needed not only at the final. Example: Ahora, cojamos esta metáfora! > !Ahora, cojamos esta metáfora!

I don't know any guide to repair technical errors with Subtitle Workshop. I learned that from my experience.
When adding subtitles to a DVD is not everything just to translate or to use programs with default settings. Using your imagination can make them looking better like the original subs.

enjoy,
Mtz

PS: the font used in sup is something close to Arial Narrow Bold 24, but is not that font because the used font is mine. ;)

[bubuajs]

Thank you so much mtz, you are right about that. Translating isn't everything. I need to take care of stuff like that. Thank you so much for pointing them out.

r0lZ, I tried to edit the original subs in DVDSubEdit from directly the vob file, to lower them. As you know they are appearing in the middle of the video. I did. But when I tested the DVD and display the subs, everything crashed. That always happened when the subs are corrupted. This is my luck. Is there another way to get the subs down?

Cause what I find funny is that, even though mtz pointed out something very true, the added subs aren't giving any trouble, and the ones that are supposed to work no matter what, are giving me hell. I edit the .sup file alone, nothing. I edit the .vob file, and nothing...

Maybe I am not meant to do this... :scared:

[r0lZ]

Well, do it the hard way. Convert them to text with SubRip or DVDSubEdit, and back to SUP with Subtitle creator. You know how to do that now! ;)

(Are you sure you use really the original stream? Have you tried to demux it again?)

[bubuajs]

ok, time for the real deal guys!

r0|Z, I did what you said with the subs. I made it softsub and then converted it to sup again. thats done!

Now where I really need you. I went to make my first test merging all what I did with the real DVD. I did the Replace VTST Titles. It did it ok. But it only took with the 1st subtitle stream, the English one. The Spanish one, was not there. So, what should I do in this case¿?

[r0lZ]

What do you mean by "not there"? Can you select it with the remote, but not with the menus? Or is it absent in the subpic definitions in the IFOs?

In the latter case, it's easy to fix.
Double-click on your title PGC, and then on the second subpic button. Enter the right numbers. Normally, you can use 1 for the display modes that are not grayed out in the GUI, and leave the other ones to 0. Accept your changes.
Now, right click on your title PGC, and select Domain Stream Attributes. PgcEdit should warn you that the number of subpic streams does not match the content of the PGC, and offer to create a new entry. Accept.
In the domain stream attributes dialog, enter "es" as the language code for the second stream.
Save and test.

You will probably also have to fix the subpic colours in the PGC, but you know how to do that now.

[bubuajs]

The case was the latter. Which your way works like a charm!

And is impossible that it will be in the menu, because there is no button for that!!! hehehe

But is a bit sad. I lost all the styles I had before since they came from textsubs. hehehe But is ok...

Is there a way I can check is the entire DVD is working properly? Like is there any broken link or something weird? Since I made a "replace", how can I know all the old stuff was correctly replace with the new stuff? Is there like am option for that in pcgedit?

[r0lZ]

Not yet. You can use Info -> Find jumps to nowhere, but this function doesn't check everything.

When replacing a PGC, an usual problem is the number of chapters and cells, but PgcEdit should warn you when you replace the PGC. Anyway, verify that the buttons of your chapter menu lead to the correct location in the movie.

Another problem when replacing subpics is the width and position of the subpics. Burn a RW, and verify if they are correctly placed when played on a 4:3 and on a 16:9 TV. (Most software players emulate a 16:9 TV only.)

If you haven't modified anything else, the rest of the DVD should be OK.