The AACS hammer gets dropped on releases starting Apr 23rd and Doom9 is mentioned! [Archive]

Socio

16th April 2007, 21:04

Looks like HD DVD releases get new keys starting the April 23rd;

HD DVD, Blu-ray protection in question after attacks (http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070416/tc_infoworld/87720)

The development, disclosed on the Doom9.org forum for video technology aficionados, ironically involved the use of an HD DVD drive within the Xbox, the gaming system from Microsoft, one of the backers of the AACS system.

The new method uses the Xbox's HD DVD drive to read the volume ID for a disc, one piece of information needed to eventually decrypt and copy a disc.

New HD DVDs issued after April 23 will not work on players running the old software.

The technique is known as "device key revocation," a feature of AACS that allows it to block players running software whose device key has been compromised. The upgrade is mandatory, as new movies have been programmed to not play on the old software.

dito

16th April 2007, 21:57

Looks like HD DVD releases get new keys starting the April 23rd;

HD DVD, Blu-ray protection in question after attacks (http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070416/tc_infoworld/87720)

Wow... Very funny... I'll guess the next firmware will have somewhat better security... To bad for all Xbox360's owners...

Best regards!

BLACKBIRDxx

16th April 2007, 23:20

i guess ms will be swapping out all the 360 drives sold then.

noclip

17th April 2007, 19:42

So this update will kill USB sniffing, memory sniffing, aacskeys, and current versions of PowerDVD and WinDVD's certificates?

I give it a shelf life of 2 weeks before it's re-circumvented. One thing they can never protect is title keys, because there's no practical way to play a movie without keeping them in either memory or the CPU registers. Just drop in a disc for which the title keys are known, hit play and search for it in memory. Figure the size of cryptobabble in which it's hidden and use Muslix's original attack.

FoxDisc

17th April 2007, 20:21

One thing they can never protect is title keys, because there's no practical way to play a movie without keeping them in either memory or the CPU registers. Just drop in a disc for which the title keys are known, hit play and search for it in memory. Figure the size of cryptobabble in which it's hidden and use Muslix's original attack.

Muslix's known - plaintext crypto attack is powerful, but if they implement Sequence Keys and the SKBs, more will be required than one title key per title. You need mini-title keys at each of 32 segments to decrypt one of the eight variations of the movie at each of those points. Those wil be harder to catch than the main title key as they'll pop into memory, get used, then deleted.

Doom9

17th April 2007, 20:50

At least they came up with a fitting description for the forum, not like BBC and Co :)
And has anybody actually gotten the WinDVD patch and checked for keys while playing movies?

Galileo2000

18th April 2007, 00:28

i guess ms will be swapping out all the 360 drives sold then.

I just bought a second one for my evil goals :D

@Doom9 : do you think they can go after forum?

Adub

18th April 2007, 02:19

I certainly hope not.

Galileo2000

18th April 2007, 04:14

I certainly hope not.

me too...

Fahzuu

18th April 2007, 11:34

...because there's no practical way to play a movie without keeping them in either memory or the CPU registers. Just drop in a disc for which the title keys are known, hit play and search for it in memory.

Plain message m = "Hi"

Crypto-algorithm: "add key k to each letter"
k = 1 (secret key)

encrypted message c = "Ij"

-----------------------

other, "equivalent" crypto-algorithm: "add 3, subtract key k' from each letter"
k' = 2 (modified secret key with k'=3-k)

encrypted message c = "Ij"
(crypto algo works the same as above, uses different keys, though)

-----------------------

still sure, that a key will have to be in memory or in registers - ever? ;)

noclip

18th April 2007, 18:37

Fahzuu:

If all else fails (highly unlikely), we can always just rip the decrypted VC1 and DDP bitstreams from memory.

mousky

18th April 2007, 18:52

So exactly what are the benefits of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? The hackers and pirates cheerfully make their copies, while paying customers are treated like criminals. What a wonderful business model.

Bigmango

18th April 2007, 20:38

So exactly what are the benefits of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? The hackers and pirates cheerfully make their copies, while paying customers are treated like criminals. What a wonderful business model.

Yes as always. Paying customers have the headaches with things not working properly due to copy protections.

For 1 example, I read in another news 1-2 days ago about someone who purchased a "new" Sony dvd player that can't play the newer Sony discs anymore due to the new protection (the protection introduces errors in the authoring). This is Sony titles on a Sony player.

Sony told the customer that there is no firmware update yet, but there may be one in the future (they don't know yet !!). In this case he will need to return the player for the update...

We are the customers and we pay for this BS.

SamuriHL

18th April 2007, 21:53

@Bigmango

Sony decided the publicity of this issue wasn't good and decided to fix their copy protection after all. They're replacing any one's discs who have this issue. You have to call them and explain what morons they are, but they will supposedly replace the discs. How...nice of them. :)

Bigmango

18th April 2007, 22:00

setarip_old

18th April 2007, 22:09

@SamuriHL

Hi!Sony decided the publicity of this issue wasn't good and decided to fix their copy protection after all.Would you please provide a link to the source of this statement?

SamuriHL

18th April 2007, 22:18

@SamuriHL

Hi!Would you please provide a link to the source of this statement?

Sure thing.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6434584.html

Enjoy!

setarip_old

18th April 2007, 22:57

Thanks for the link - enlightening ;>}

However, search as I may, I couldn't locate any actual press releases by SONY that are apparently "quoted" in the article...

SamuriHL

18th April 2007, 22:59

Thanks for the link - enlightening ;>}

However, search as I may, I couldn't locate any actual press releases by SONY that are apparently "quoted" in the article...

Hmmmm, I just took it for granted. It was on /. and digg(yea, I know, I know...) so I just assumed... I wonder if you call the number in the article if they'd confirm it.

Fahzuu

19th April 2007, 13:30

So exactly what are the benefits of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? The hackers and pirates cheerfully make their copies, while paying customers are treated like criminals. What a wonderful business model.

We should better not mix things up: benefits of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are:

- better video quality
- better sound quality
- and for those who care for that stuff: some more clicky-clicky-gimmicks and extras

I guess, you were actually referring to AACS. The formats are ok, it's the nasty AACS that sucks. (ok, in case of Blu-Ray, it's the same thing, as makers of Blu-Ray made AACS mandatory and HD-DVD at least granted the choice of whether or not to encrypt).

SamuriHL

19th April 2007, 13:34

We should better not mix things up: benefits of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are:

- better video quality
- better sound quality
- and for those who care for that stuff: some more clicky-clicky-gimmicks and extras

I guess, you were actually referring to AACS. The formats are ok, it's the nasty AACS that sucks. (ok, in case of Blu-Ray, it's the same thing, as makers of Blu-Ray made AACS mandatory and HD-DVD at least granted the choice of whether or not to encrypt).

Don't forget that HD DVD is not region coded, either, which I consider to be a benefit. I'm personally staying away from BluRay as I believe they are the most anti-consumer of the two. (Neither are truly consumer friendly, but, at least HD DVD has some benefits over BluRay in that regard).

vio_man

20th April 2007, 00:03

It seems BD+ is comming out soon

The Blu-ray Disc Association has announced that following breaches of the security of the high-definition format's AACS security technology, it has brought forward the planned release date of the BD-Plus (BD+), a more advanced anti-copying system.
BD+ is an entirely different encryption system to AACS. Instead of each movie having the same encryption key, BD+ allows each disc to install a small piece of encryption software on a player, so that each disc has its own key.

A method for extracting Blu-ray keys was published in January (the rival HD DVD format, which also uses AACS, had already been cracked). As a result, the AACS licensing body last week released a security update that supplied new encryption keys for the affected discs. However this means that existing discs can no longer be played until the update is applied.

BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles.

The Blu-ray Disc Association reports that player compatibility testing has ended and that studios have had test discs for the last few months.

Once BD+ is available it will add between seven to 28 days per title to production time. 20th Century Fox is expected to be one of the firsts to implement this new technology, having slowed disc production since the attacks on AACS, and Sony Pictures is planning to be using it by the end of the year.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/110130/bluray-accelerates-introduction-of-new-drm-technology.html

SamuriHL

20th April 2007, 00:19

Once BD+ is available it will add between seven to 28 days per title to production time. 20th Century Fox is expected to be one of the firsts to implement this new technology, having slowed disc production since the attacks on AACS, and Sony Pictures is planning to be using it by the end of the year.

Yea, um, no. They really think it's acceptable to people to add up to a month to production because of copy protection? Have these MORONS not learned from the music industry's problems? Look at EMI and iTunes...I suspect EMI will see their sales increase because they're not pissing off their customer base with useless DRM that serves absolutely no purpose to a legitimate customer. DRM inconveniences customers and treats them as criminals. It does NOT inconvenience the people it's supposedly meant to stop in the least. Adding this crap to the discs will most likely cause backwards compatibility issues with the early adopter's players. Good group of people to piss off...the people wealthy enough to be buy the first generation of your products at really overbloated prices. Yup, good business sense.

HyperHacker

20th April 2007, 01:17

So how long until the OS is emulated, making the system useless, and perhaps a virus or two emerges?

arnezami

20th April 2007, 06:31

Regarding new versions of Software Players:

http://www.aacsla.com/home

PowerDVD has now released a patch of its software too.

Welcome to the CyberLink Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD Update Center. This site will provide necessary files to update your CyberLink Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD software player.

Please note this update is critical in order to ensure that your player supports upcoming movie titles. The update is free of charge and we highly recommend you to update now.

Did you notice the alert in the information bar? This update requires ActiveX control to help search for the right patch for you. If you have not installed it previously, please select “Install ActiveX Control” to continue.
http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/patch/enu/index.jsp

Just days before the official release of new movies...

And why do I have this strange feeling this isn't going to work with all browsers?

arnezami

[edit] Guess what: something isn't working ;). At least not without doing something. Personally I don't think though we should be the ones to debug their website-based AACS keys distribution system. Let people be annoyed by DRM.

Galileo2000

20th April 2007, 06:56

Regarding new versions of Software Players:

http://www.aacsla.com/home

PowerDVD has now released a patch of its software too.

http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/patch/enu/index.jsp

Just days before the official release of new movies...

And why do I have this strange feeling this isn't going to work with all browsers?

arnezami

[edit] Guess what: something isn't working ;). At least not without doing something. Personally I don't think though we should be the ones to debug their website-based AACS keys distribution system. Let people be annoyed by DRM.

They are biting their own tail.

Early adopters will not be happy.

And they will tell the late adopters.

Essentially the whole thing can be finished pretty soon by the economical reasons alone.

They are way ahead of the reality train.

There are tens of millions here in this country who have nothing but VCR..

arnezami

20th April 2007, 13:26

Little bit more info:

Essential Update for PowerDVD and Software Players for Blu-ray disc and HD DVD.

Dear CyberLink user,

CyberLink is releasing an important update for your PowerDVD Ultra or other software players for Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. We highly recommend you to install the update to ensure that you will be able to continue enjoying HD DVD and Blu-ray disc movie titles.

To help you access the right update version, CyberLink has created a web service that will detect the version you own and search for the appropriate update file for your software.

Check my software player now

This update file includes robustness enhancements and replacing a new set of protection keys. The new protection keys will replace your expired key and will be required when you playback Blu-ray disc and HD DVD movies. If you choose not to update the software, you will not be able to playback protected Blu-ray disc and HD DVD movie titles properly.

Please note that renewing protection keys will be a process that will happen periodically. Keeping your keys updated will ensure you the capability to continue the use of PowerDVD Ultra and other Blu-ray and HD DVD software players from CyberLink. It is our support policy to provide free lifetime protection keys update services to our customers. Hence whenever there are new keys, we will notify you to update your copy of PowerDVD Ultra and other software player for Blu-ray disc and HD DVD.

Your continued enjoyment of CyberLink software is our utmost concern. We highly encourage you to install the update file at your earliest convenience. Should you have questions regarding the protection keys, please contact CyberLink Customer Support.

We sincerely thank you for your continued support and loyalty to PowerDVD and software players from CyberLink.

Sincerely,

CyberLink Corp.

http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/patch/enu/update_center.jsp?Source=Home

btw: how is somebody who bought PowerDVD as a CD-ROM (and who doesn't have access to a broadband connection) supposed to download a 75MB "patch"?

arnezami

SamuriHL

20th April 2007, 13:30

Their stupid activex control managed to lock up my machine for about 3 minutes while it did whatever the hell it does to check but it eventually did come back and say I needed an update. This was about 3 days ago. I've been running the new version for a couple days and haven't had any problems. Of course, according to Slysoft, if you're using AnyDVD HD then this new version isn't even necessary. :D

psxzombie

20th April 2007, 23:14

Thanks for the link - enlightening ;>}

However, search as I may, I couldn't locate any actual press releases by SONY that are apparently "quoted" in the article...

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/004150.html

setarip_old

23rd April 2007, 00:55

Ifinally found what I was looking for - an OFFICIAL SONY site with the news release (not other sites "quoting" SONY):

http://www.sonydadc.com/americas/news.news1.go

The_Keymaker

23rd April 2007, 15:42

Can someone provide a bit of clarification?

If one does not apply the "patch" will the player refuse to play NEW releases OR will it refuse to play ALL releases, including previous and existing releases?

The_Keymaker

SamuriHL

23rd April 2007, 15:56

As far as I understand it you can still play existing discs but if you try to play a new disc all bets are off...and by ALL bets I mean all...I don't know at that point whether the player would continue playing even existing discs or not. so, it's better to apply the patch than not.

Galileo2000

23rd April 2007, 16:04

As, it's better to apply the patch than not.

I thought it was other way around.

I might be missing something here.

SamuriHL

23rd April 2007, 16:20

I thought it was other way around.

I might be missing something here.

Why would it be better to NOT apply the patch? If your goal is to ONLY watch movies that exist before the key change and NEVER watch another new movie, great, you can safely not update if you wish. However, as soon as you try to play a new title it will revoke your player key and you won't be able to play any titles, past or future until you update as far as I understand it.

SamuriHL

23rd April 2007, 16:22

http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/patch/enu/update_center.jsp?Source=Home

This update file includes robustness enhancements and replacing a new set of protection keys. The new protection keys will replace your expired key and will be required when you playback Blu-ray disc and HD DVD movies. If you choose not to update the software, you will not be able to playback protected Blu-ray disc and HD DVD movie titles properly.

Galileo2000

23rd April 2007, 16:31

Why would it be better to NOT apply the patch? If your goal is to ONLY watch movies that exist before the key change and NEVER watch another new movie, great, you can safely not update if you wish. However, as soon as you try to play a new title it will revoke your player key and you won't be able to play any titles, past or future until you update as far as I understand it.

My goal is to watch new and old decrypted movies from the HD DVDs I OWN using my computers HDD.

As simple as that.

Just for fun of it, put several of my DVDs into my xbox 360 HD DVD drive add-on and tried to play it with PowerDVD.

"Incompatible graphics driver". Yeah, right.

I paid for the drive. I paid for PDVD. I paid for the HD DVDs. I paid for each part of my HTPC, software and hardware. I paid a bunch of $$$ for my new HDTV.

Now I cannot watch my HD DVDs using straighforward process. Just because either my graphics card or TV are not up to the holy criteria of HDCP some a$$heads implemented in their wonderful scheme.

I have absolutely no idea what this patch will do to my nearly perfect working setups on both of my HTPCs.

hajj_3

23rd April 2007, 17:29

direct link to powerdvd 7.3 new aacs patch (75mb): http://download.cyberlink.com/ftpdload/patch/powerdvd/upgradetov2/DVD070301-04/PowerDVD_Ultra.exe

SamuriHL

23rd April 2007, 18:08

My goal is to watch new and old decrypted movies from the HD DVDs I OWN using my computers HDD.

As simple as that.

Just for fun of it, put several of my DVDs into my xbox 360 HD DVD drive add-on and tried to play it with PowerDVD.

"Incompatible graphics driver". Yeah, right.

I paid for the drive. I paid for PDVD. I paid for the HD DVDs. I paid for each part of my HTPC, software and hardware. I paid a bunch of $$$ for my new HDTV.

Now I cannot watch my HD DVDs using straighforward process. Just because either my graphics card or TV are not up to the holy criteria of HDCP some a$$heads implemented in their wonderful scheme.

I have absolutely no idea what this patch will do to my nearly perfect working setups on both of my HTPCs.

That completely SUCKS!! This is why I have AnyDVD HD...I don't have to worry about this nonsense with HDCP. They also said that you don't have to worry about updating PowerDVD for the keys if you don't want to because if you're running AnyDVD HD, PowerDVD never has to do any decryption. LOL! And I'll be perfectly honest with you, I'm highly regretting the purchase of PowerDVD Ultra at this point in time. It's unstable, buggy as hell, and really just God aweful as far as I'm concerned. I keep hoping it'll get better with each new patch they put out, but, so far...UGH.

FoxDisc

23rd April 2007, 18:43

Why would it be better to NOT apply the patch? If your goal is to ONLY watch movies that exist before the key change and NEVER watch another new movie, great, you can safely not update if you wish. However, as soon as you try to play a new title it will revoke your player key and you won't be able to play any titles, past or future until you update as far as I understand it.

You are talking about the Host Revocation List (to prevent a software player from playing old discs) It is true the AACS LA might use the HRL process to revoke software players, but it would make lots of innocent users unhappy and do little to stop fair use backups, so I have my doubts they'll do it.

Further - Suppose they decide they do not want software players to play decrypted titles? They could have the software player ID previously released titles with a hash stored in a small database and simply refuse to play decrypted titles with the "patched" software. So far no one has disclosed what the patch does and no one is sure what changes will be made to new discs. It probably makes sense to wait and see.

Galileo2000

23rd April 2007, 18:55

That completely SUCKS!! This is why I have AnyDVD HD...I don't have to worry about this nonsense with HDCP. They also said that you don't have to worry about updating PowerDVD for the keys if you don't want to because if you're running AnyDVD HD, PowerDVD never has to do any decryption. LOL! And I'll be perfectly honest with you, I'm highly regretting the purchase of PowerDVD Ultra at this point in time. It's unstable, buggy as hell, and really just God aweful as far as I'm concerned. I keep hoping it'll get better with each new patch they put out, but, so far...UGH.

I don't think we can rely on AnyDVD HD forever.

I think the scheme should be like this:

- obtain a key(s) FROM YOUR LEGALLY PURCHASED HD / BD disc.
- Decrypt with one of the tools developed.
- burn an .ISO using ImgBurn.
- Mount w/ Daemon.
- play with whatever software player works for you.
- sit back and enjoy.

Galileo2000

23rd April 2007, 19:00

SamuriHL

23rd April 2007, 19:03

You are talking about the Host Revocation List (to prevent a software player from playing old discs) It is true the AACS LA might use the HRL process to revoke software players, but it would make lots of innocent users unhappy and do little to stop fair use backups, so I have my doubts they'll do it.

Further - Suppose they decide they do not want software players to play decrypted titles? They could have the software player ID previously released titles with a hash stored in a small database and simply refuse to play decrypted titles with the "patched" software. So far no one has disclosed what the patch does and no one is sure what changes will be made to new discs. It probably makes sense to wait and see.

Well, from how WinDVD and PowerDVD make it sound, it's as though they are indeed revoking the player keys for both in the latest round of HD DVD releases. Hence, as far as I understand it, if you try to play a new release on a non-updated player, it will revoke that player even for old discs. They make it sound like if you don't update, you won't be able to play any discs at all. (They may just be trying to push the update, I really don't know). Also, I agree completely that it does nothing to stop those who've made backups. Once the AACS is gone, it's gone.

SamuriHL

23rd April 2007, 19:06

I don't think we can rely on AnyDVD HD forever.

I think the scheme should be like this:

- obtain a key(s) FROM YOUR LEGALLY PURCHASED HD / BD disc.
- Decrypt with one of the tools developed.
- burn an .ISO using ImgBurn.
- Mount w/ Daemon.
- play with whatever software player works for you.
- sit back and enjoy.

I like that scheme. As for relying on AnyDVD HD, I have faith in Slysoft. They've never let me down before.

FoxDisc

23rd April 2007, 19:38

Well, from how WinDVD and PowerDVD make it sound, it's as though they are indeed revoking the player keys for both in the latest round of HD DVD releases.

It is currently believed that they are revoking the "player keys" (the technical term is "device keys"). What this kind of revocation means, however, is just that the old keys don't work for new discs. This type of MKB, "implicit" revocation, doesn't affect previously released discs.

Hence, as far as I understand it, if you try to play a new release on a non-updated player, it will revoke that player even for old discs.

That only happens if they also use the HRL explicit revocation system.

They make it sound like if you don't update, you won't be able to play any discs at all. (They may just be trying to push the update, I really don't know).

So far no one knows.

Also, I agree completely that it does nothing to stop those who've made backups. Once the AACS is gone, it's gone.

True, the AACS is gone, but it's at least possible that updated software could recognize that you were asking it to play a decrypted commercial disc and do ..... something. Of course, by now I would have expected someone to notice if it was refusing to play decrypted titles, I just don't see much benefit in updating until there are some new titles out there to play.

SamuriHL

23rd April 2007, 19:44

It is currently believed that they are revoking the "player keys" (the technical term is "device keys"). What this kind of revocation means, however, is just that the old keys don't work for new discs. This type of MKB, "implicit" revocation, doesn't affect previously released discs.

Fascinating, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for that info!! So even if they revoke the player keys in a future revocation list, existing discs will still play back unless they use HRL revocation? Very interesting indeed.

That only happens if they also use the HRL explicit revocation system.

I see. I'm beginning to get the full picture now.

True, the AACS is gone, but it's at least possible that updated software could recognize that you were asking it to play a decrypted commercial disc and do ..... something. Of course, by now I would have expected someone to notice if it was refusing to play decrypted titles, I just don't see much benefit in updating until there are some new titles out there to play.

Yea I've got the patch installed and it hasn't done anything noticable. It still works with AnyDVD HD so if it were doing what you suggest is possible(and I agree, it most definitely is), then we'd have noticed by now. Is tomorrow the day the new discs come out with the non-empty revocation list?

FoxDisc

23rd April 2007, 21:25

Fascinating, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for that info!! So even if they revoke the player keys in a future revocation list, existing discs will still play back unless they use HRL revocation? Very interesting indeed.

You might want to review this post : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=986881#post986881
It gives an overview of the explicit and implicit revocation that can be put on a disc.

Is tomorrow the day the new discs come out with the non-empty revocation list?

We don't know if the new discs will have any revocation lists (there are 3 types) or if they will just use implicit revocation (no list). It will be interesting.

arnezami

23rd April 2007, 22:01

Since I've now actually implemented the MKB processing algorithm (and fallen into an easy programming trap) I wonder if there are standalones out there that made the same kind of mistake I made: its quite possible to implement a seemingly working MKB-processing algo while it would not work at all for future MKB versions. This has to do with the "all to the left" starting point of the first Processing Key (which is not good for testing changes in direction).

Just some thoughts... :)

SamuriHL

23rd April 2007, 22:01

You might want to review this post : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=986881#post986881
It gives an overview of the explicit and implicit revocation that can be put on a disc.

That's a great post. Thanks again for the info! I understand the encryption mechanisms but I didn't quite understand the different revocation mechanisms so that was very informative.

We don't know if the new discs will have any revocation lists (there are 3 types) or if they will just use implicit revocation (no list). It will be interesting.

I'm not even sure at the moment what's coming out on HD-DVD tomorrow. I know The Queen is coming on DVD in region 1 and if I have time I plan on going to pick it up. (Oh, crap, I just looked up what's coming out...nothing good, but, my wife will probably tell me to pick up Failure To Launch. BLECK!). So, we'll see. I want to see how the studios handle this and how far they're willing to go with it. If the 360 drive that most of us own keeps getting used to defeat AACS, will they ever dare to revoke it? HAHAHAH, I SERIOUSLY doubt it. I assume it's possible though, at least in theory.