Encode HD-DVD to WMV for 360 playback?

[dokworm]

Has anyone come up with a working solution for taking their HD-DVD or BluRay rip and encoding it to WMV that plays back smoothly on the XBOX 360?

[tchaikovsky]

I did a small test about this, posted on http://galaxies3000.blogspot.com. It Might Help...

[ACrowley]

I made a few WMV9 AP (WVC1) HDDVD reencodes.

1 Demux HDDVD with EVodemux and note the calculated Framecount

2. Create a Graph with Filesource-ElecardMepgDemultiplexer-SonicVideoDeocder 4.2

3. Create a AVS with
DirectShowSource("G:\yourvideo.grf",fps=23.976,framecount=xxxxxx,seekzero=false,seek=true,audio=false)

4. encode it to WMV MP or AP with the Settings you want.
For Advanced WVC1 Settings like Bframes etc use Zambellis WMV) AP Settings Editor.
I use ProCoder 2 for encoding

works perfect on 360 GameDrive / Streaming

[NHRaider]

I made a few WMV9 AP (WVC1) HDDVD reencodes.

1 Demux HDDVD with EVodemux and note the calculated Framecount

2. Create a Graph with Filesource-ElecardMepgDemultiplexer-SonicVideoDeocder 4.2

3. Create a AVS with
DirectShowSource("G:\yourvideo.grf",fps=23.976,framecount=xxxxxx,seekzero=false,seek=true,audio=false)

4. encode it to WMV MP or AP with the Settings you want.
For Advanced WVC1 Settings like Bframes etc use Zambellis WMV) AP Settings Editor.
I use ProCoder 2 for encoding

works perfect on 360 GameDrive / Streaming

I've been doing some testing and it seems these WMV HD files are huge... Can you tell me the size of the .EVO you converted and the size of the resultant .wmv file?

[ACrowley]

I've been doing some testing and it seems these WMV HD files are huge... Can you tell me the size of the .EVO you converted and the size of the resultant .wmv file?


Simply use Bitrate controlled encoding. Use a Bitrate Calculator and you can calcualte the Output Filesize.
Nothing Special ,its the same as with as other Codecs
Zambellis online Bitrate Calculator :
http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/WMVBitCalc.html

I use 1pass CBR WVC1 (WMV9 AP) with a 60000Buffer and Preset "better"
720p needs min 7-8Mbps ,1080p around 14Mbps
I encode to DVD9 Size (8138MB). With high Bitrate, 60000Buffer it looks better as 1pass VBR CQ ,imho

My Commandline for the latest wmcmd.vbs

cmd /k cscript.exe c:\windows\wmcmd.vbs -input inputvideo.avs -output g:\encodedvideo.wmv -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 8000000 -v_keydist 30 -v_buffer 600000 -v_quality 75

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123812

AVS Script Input something like that (it was Batman.Begins.HDDVD):

DirectShowSource("G:\batman.grf",fps=23.976,framecount=201467,seekzero=false,seek=true,audio=false)
Crop(0, 128, -0, -152)
spline36resize(1280,536)
converttoyv12()
Removegrain(mode=2)
Asharp(1,3)

Here is a sample from one of my WVC1 720p encodes, looks very nice and plays perfect on Xbox360 via stream or Gamedrive
Its from Superman.Returns HDDVD VC1 :
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WL2GNL38

[NHRaider]

Use Bitrate Controlled encoding. Use a Bitrate Calculator and you can calcualte the Output Filesize.
Nothing Special ,its the same as with as other Codecs
Zambellis online Bitrate Calculator :
http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/WMVBitCalc.html

I use 1pass CBR WVC1 (WMV9 AP) with a 60000Buffer and Preset "better"
720p needs min 7-8Mbps ,1080p around 14Mbps
I encode to DVD9 Size (8138MB)
It looks ,imho ,better as VBR CQ 1pass when you use the 60000Buffer for CBR and a high Bitrate.

My Commandline for the latest wmcmd.vbs

cmd /k cscript.exe c:\windows\wmcmd.vbs -input inputvideo.avs -output g:\encodedvideo.wmv -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 8000000 -v_keydist 30 -v_buffer 600000 -v_quality 100

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123812

I need to use the WM9 for my codec since I'm streaming to a helios player... quality = 100? I've been using 96 since I was told that is a huge difference in file size.

[ACrowley]

It makes a differerene in Filesize for VBR CQ ,cause the CQ definies the Filesize in this mode

For CBR ,the Bitrate controlls the Output Size ,the Quality Settings plays no Role for the Filesize

The CBR encode is good for your streaming, perhaps you test it with my sample.
When you want VBR CQ ,use around 90 and your Filesize will be smaller. For a 720p encode it could match DVD9

[zambelli]

It makes a differerene in Filesize for VBR CQ ,cause the CQ definies the Filesize in this mode

For CBR ,the Bitrate controlls the Output Size ,the Quality Settings plays no Role for the Filesize
Right. It's important to note that -v_quality in CBR mode controls the threshold for dropping frames. The WME9 documentation refers to this as "smoothness/crispness" factor, implying that your video is "smooth" if no frames are dropped or "crisp" is some frames are dropped to leave more bits for the encoded frames.

Basically, when in CBR mode the codec needs to balance its bit budget very carefully. In an I-P-B GOP structure not all frames end up being the same size so its the job of the ratecontrol algorithm to plan ahead so that the video buffer would not overflow unexpectedly. When dealing with low bitrates or short buffers, the encoder might find itself in a situation where the buffer is nearly full and the new frame being encoded is too big in size to fit into the buffer without overflowing it. In that situation, the encoder has only two choices: use higher compression ratio to further shrink the frame size, or drop the frame entirely and just move on to the next frame. The -v_quality parameter controls the balance between those too. If you set it too high and you try to encode something challenging - you may end up with dropped frames. If you set it too low - you might end up with some frames being encoded with a conservatively high QP (perhaps unnecessarily so). The trick is to find the sweet spot - the highest value at which there are no dropped frames. 75 works well in most cases, but I typically recommend 50 as a safe general value.

[ACrowley]

THX..thats what i wanted to know for sure...very good explained !

Now i understand how it works in CBR, i will use v_quality 75 for CBR Mode, but i had no dropped Frames in the past with 100 ,so far i can see

THX Zambelli

EDIT
When somebody will use Q 80 on CBR 1pass...you can read in the wmcmd.vbs Thread ,that i ve Problem with Quality 80 on 1pass CBR.
Filesize is s by far to low. Q100 gives exactly the calculated Filesize

[twan69666]

As I try to do these encodes, I learned I really need a new cpu. My oc'd p4 2.4c just aint cutting it anymore. :(

[jokin]

In other news the Spring Dashboard update will enable support for H.264 and MPEG-4 simple profile playback.

[alan_erickson@hotmail.com]

In other news the Spring Dashboard update will enable support for H.264 and MPEG-4 simple profile playback.

Does this mean that the xbox360 will be able to play back divx/xvid? Also, I do some encoding with wmv9 and ac3. Would that be supported?

[jokin]

Probably not. Unless the Xvid does not use and of the Advanced Simple Profile features such as QPEL. But at least this will open the road for many different types of encoders instead of the limited few there are now.

[twan69666]

Hey guys, I gotta question.

After reencoding my HDDVD rip using crowley's settings. It looks great and plays wonderful. When I did the reencode, I used a video only version. But when I try to mux the audio back in, it plays fine on my cpu, but my 360 keeps on giving my an error saying it may not be supported.

I have the audio in ac3 as well as wma, and I have only been able to mux them together using the wma (using wm stream editor). Anyone have any ideas how I can make my audio + video work? Ive tried using a handful of muxer's in grapedit, but none of them seem to like to video, and only a handful take the audio. Thanks!

[zambelli]

Hey guys, I gotta question.

After reencoding my HDDVD rip using crowley's settings. It looks great and plays wonderful. When I did the reencode, I used a video only version. But when I try to mux the audio back in, it plays fine on my cpu, but my 360 keeps on giving my an error saying it may not be supported.

I have the audio in ac3 as well as wma, and I have only been able to mux them together using the wma (using wm stream editor). Anyone have any ideas how I can make my audio + video work? Ive tried using a handful of muxer's in grapedit, but none of them seem to like to video, and only a handful take the audio. Thanks!
For muxing WMA and WMV together, just use WM Stream Editor that comes installed with WME9. For any other form of audio, I'd recommend Solveig Multimedia's ASF Multiplexer.

[twan69666]

Thanks Zambelli,

The problem is Ive tried both of those. The video plays fine without audio. Then I use stream editor to mux. The final file plays fine on my cpu, and my 360 see's it, but my 360 gives me an error saying "this may not be supported" once I try to play it. The solveig filter wont accept my video, since its been reencoded to a lower bitrate. Any other ideas?

[ACrowley]

Thanks Zambelli,

The problem is Ive tried both of those. The video plays fine without audio. Then I use stream editor to mux. The final file plays fine on my cpu, and my 360 see's it, but my 360 gives me an error saying "this may not be supported" once I try to play it. The solveig filter wont accept my video, since its been reencoded to a lower bitrate. Any other ideas?

360 has no Problem with any WMA10Pro Audo i reencoded from HDDVD Audio.

I made a lot of WMA10Pro 768kbps 24bit 48khz Audio Tracks and all they are playing wonderfull on 360 from Dashboard or XP/Vista MediaCenter streaming
.

There must be a mistake in your WMA encoding.

Use WindowsMedia10 Profesionell 16 or 14Bit 48khz

Dont use Solveig Muxer, use WMStreameditor
Note :
Xbox360 CANT play WMV Video with any other than WMA Audio! No AC3/ in WMV (from SolveigMuxer)
Also the Dashboardplayer only recognized .wmv extension, not .asf

[twan69666]

Thanks, I'll start from square one with the audio. I think that I used 9.2 lossless to the encode. Think that may be why.

[twan69666]

Yep, sure enough. I was using windows audio 9.2 lossless to encode, but as soon as I switched to windows audio 10, everything works great. :thanks:

[bill55]

I can finally post after my 5-day waiting period. :-)

I am not having much luck. First, I would like to encode to 1080p and not 720p. I have a couple encodes in 1080 that look awesome so I should be able to keep these in full 1080 instread of scaling them down to 720, right?

Also, I am having no luck with the audio. I have read numerous posts about people only being able to get 2 channel audio to work. I am having those same issues. I tried using graphedit and used the DD+/DTS source plugin > Intervideo Audio decoder, but it only works with 2 channel audio. I have seen 5.1 wmv's made from hd-dvd's so I know there is a way. Do we have a solution for this yet?

Thanks to all who have posted such good info. I can't wait to be able to stream or play these wmv's on my 360.

Thanks again!!
Bill

[ACrowley]

Thanks, I'll start from square one with the audio. I think that I used 9.2 lossless to the encode. Think that may be why.

i encode Dolby Digital Plus 1536kbps to WMA10Pro 5.1 768kbps 24bit 48khz
Sounds excellent, works perfect on Xbox360

@bill55
Its only Problem with InterVideoAudioDecoder. It only outputs 2.0
You must use Orbitlees DTS/AC3/DD+ Source Filter -SonicCinemasterAudioDecoder 4.2

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123812&page=2

[bill55]

I think I found some good helpful info for the audio encoding!!!

I found ths on AVS Forums:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=227837&page=3&pp=30
This is your problem. The easiest way to fix this is to use Zoom Player. Open Zoom Player and go to the player options and then the external properties section. Set WinDVD for 6 speaker (5.1 channel) mode and then click apply. Exit Zoom Player and then re-run your graphedit test. The audio decoder should now be in 6 speaker mode.

Now one thing I noticed was after I did the settings like mention in this post was that I had to go to my control panel sound properties and set my speaker config to 5.1 (even though the pc doesn't have 5.1 speakers set up). Once I did that when I went to the IntervideoAudioDecoder filter properties in Graphedit, the filter was set to output 5.1!

I ran my AVS script and did not get the invalid file format error this time!!! It is now encoding. I have not tested the output, but I wanted to post this before I left the house for the day. Give it a shot.

Here is my AVS script I used for just testing the audio encode (I did this for Batman Begins HD-DVD).
Directshowsource("D:\Batman\Audio.GRF",audio=true,video=false)

I attached pics of my Graphedit window and the Intervideo filter properties window.

I hope this helps and I'm not posting something we already knew.

Bill

ps- I want to encode to 1080p and not downscale to 720p. Can someone post the best command line I should use? I want it to looks as good as possible, but I don't necessarily want the output file to be 20 gigs either. Thanks so much to all!

[twan69666]

Hey guys,

Any of you been using AutoMKV? It seems to use the exact same features/opions that a few have been using. Anyway to make a "xbox 360 setting" right now that will do all of the video/audio reencoding? Maybe(doubtful) even get lucky enough that it will accept an .evo or mkv?

After the spring update, then of course there will be changes and maybe even no need for reencodes. But May 7th still seems like quite awhile away. Thanks!

[bill55]

I have not tried AutoMKV yet. I will try it out. Will it do a good job of converting .TS HD files to WMV-HD or convert HD-DVD to WMV-HD? Are you saying that you made a xbox360 setting for this app?

[ACrowley]

@bill55

Intervideo Decoder cant decode 5.1 from DolbyDigital Plus Audio !
Its only a surround Upmix

You "must" use SonicAudioDecoer 4.2, its the only Way

[twan69666]

Well, I havent made a setting yet, but I was asking if someone wanted to. Someone who might understand the program and what they're doing a little more than me. Otherwise, its been great for just just regular encodes/reencodes. I havent tried with .ts files yet though.

[bill55]

@bill55

Intervideo Decoder cant decode 5.1 from DolbyDigital Plus Audio !
Its only a surround Upmix

You "must" use SonicAudioDecoer 4.2, its the only Way

I got the modified DD+/DTS/AC3 source filter by Orbitlee. I can now create my graph from the Orbitlee DD+ source filter -> Sonic Cinemaster Audio Decoder 4.2.

The audio is encoding now! After this I will convert the video, then mux them afterwards.

Does this script look good for video?
cscript.exe "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder\wmcmd.vbs" -input "d:\Batman\Video.avs" -output "e:\BatmanBeginsVid.wmv" -v_bframedist 1 -v_bdeltaqp 1 -v_mslevel 1 -v_codec wvc1 -v_keydist 3 -v_mode 2 -v_quality 90 -v_mmatch 0 -v_msrange 0 -v_performance 20 -v_loopfilter 1

I attached a screenshot of my video.grf file. Tell me if this looks correct to you if you don't mind.

I am using the newest Zambelli WMCmd.vbs. I'm no expert on settings so I thought I'd see what you thought of what I have there.

Thanks again for the help!. I feel like I am slowly making progress and getting closer to an actual working conversion! :-)

Bill

ps- When I tried to run that setup the video only encoded like 10 frames. I removed the Null Renderer from the graph file and it's now encoding. It shows like it's going to take like 60 hours to encode! Does that seem too long? P4-3ghz machine.

pss- One more quick question. Using the constant quality encode that I am doing is there any way to predict an output file size? This is a 2:20 movie (Batman Begins) and I was just wondering if there is a tool to calculate how big the output file size will be. Thanks!!!!

[ACrowley]

most of your Settings are included in the presets.

i suggest to use 1pass CBR with a -v_buffer 60000 Buffer and -v_quality100, preset better

1pass CBR with a high Buffer looks, imho, better compared to 1pass VBR CQ, and you can calculate the Filesize.
Zambellis Bitrate Calculator :
http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/WMVBitCalc.html

I would not use 2pass VBR at the Moment, cause 360 cant handle high Peak Bitrates above ~12Mbps

1pass CBR with minimum 7Mbps on 720p delivers excellent Results

On my A64 X2 @4800 i encode a 120min in around 17h

-v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_bitrate 8000000 -v_preset better -v_buffer 60000 -v_quality 100

[bill55]

Thanks for the advice. My encode time decreased significantly as it got past the first hour or so of the encode. Total time should be about 25 hours.

I am encoding at 1080 and not 720 so I'm not sure if you'd adjust any of your settings based on that or not.

Here is the command I will use after this encode finishes (with your settings this time):

cscript.exe "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder\wmcmd.vbs" -input "d:\Batman\Video.avs" -output "e:\BatmanBeginsVid.wmv" -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_bitrate 8000000 -v_preset better -v_buffer 60000 -v_quality 100

That look good to you? The -v_bitrate 8000000 should keep the bitrate at 8mpbs correct? That way I don't get near the 12mbps problem on the 360 like you mentioned. I hope I am understanding the 8000000 setting as 8mbps. Since I am doing 1080 and not 720 would I want to raise that number to say 10000000 instead (which would still keep me below 12mbps)?

Thanks so much for the help and all the tips! It's been hard to get straight answers from people and you've been a tremendous help. Once I am done I'd like to put a little guide together to help out others who had the same issues as myself.

Bill

[Clown shoes]

I think the playable bitrate limit before stutter is actually closer to 13Mbps, but seeing as you are using -v_quality 100, I would definately keep it closer to 12Mbps just to be safe (-v_quality is a trade off between quality and motion. 100 being highest quality) If you are just streaming this across your network and don't need it small enough to put on a DVD9, then I would definately keep it at a constant 12Mbps, especialy seeing as you are encoding at 1080p. Lower than that and you notice the quality suffers. :)

I can't believe I never saw this thread before!

[bill55]

So I should change the -v_bitrate 8000000 to -v_bitrate 12000000? Just want to make sure I am changing that correctly.

Maybe I should change it to -v_bitrate 11000000 just to be safe? I think the audio bitrate would count towards that 12-13mbps max also wouldn't it?

ps- This thread has really helped me as well! I want to make a guide that will hopefully help others too. I found a few guides out there, but none were complete. All skipped steps and apps that you needed.

[twan69666]

No, you want to leave the bitrate at 8mbps. The encode is being done at a constant bitrate, so there will be a little fluxuation. If you bump it up to 12mbps, you will likely have the video studdering when you try to play it on your 360. Yes, the audio will factor in as well

[Clown shoes]

I have done many encodes at 12Mbps without any problem. 8Mbps is unnecesarily low in my opinion. Why don't you try it out Bill55. There will be some fluctuation in the bitrate, but that's why I said keep it under the 13Mbps limit.

[ACrowley]

I have done many encodes at 12Mbps without any problem. 8Mbps is unnecesarily low in my opinion. Why don't you try it out Bill55. There will be some fluctuation in the bitrate, but that's why I said keep it under the 13Mbps limit.

8Mbps CBR definitely is not to low for 720p. Its perfect!

Over 8-9Mbps is oversized for a 2,35:1 720p encode imho.
7-8 Mbps CBR on 720p / min 13Mbps CBR for 1018p (on 2pass VBR Peak you can do 1080p with lower Bitrate ~ 10-11Mbps)

13Mbps is to much for the current 360 Decoder

@bill55
Stay with -v_quality 100
You can read in the wmcmd.vbs Thread that there are Probles with lower Quality Setting in CBR Mode
The Output File is to low ,the averge Bitrate is to low. Hells know why...
I neved had any Problmes with Quality 100

[bill55]

Since I am encoding at 1080 and not 720, that do you think?

Is 8mbps still sufficient or should I up it a little?

[ACrowley]

Since I am encoding at 1080 and not 720, that do you think?

Is 8mbps still sufficient or should I up it a little?

No, 8 mbps is by far not enough for 1080p

Use 12Mbps CBR ..should be ok for the Quality ,(cause most HD is 2.35:1) and for playback on 360

-v_mode 0 -v_bitrate 12000000

[bill55]

No, 8 mbps is by far not enough for 1080p

Use 12Mbps CBR ..should be ok for the Quality ,(cause most HD is 2.35:1) and for playback on 360

-v_mode 0 -v_bitrate 12000000

I'll give it a shot tonight. Will 12mbps be ok though? If you add in the audio bitrate I will be over 12mbps. I want to make sure the 360 can handle it.

How does this look:
cscript.exe "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder\wmcmd.vbs" -input "d:\Batman\Video.avs" -output "e:\BatmanBeginsVid.wmv" -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_bitrate 12000000 -v_preset better -v_buffer 60000 -v_quality 100

Will the 360 be able to handle that with 5.1 768kbps audio?

[twan69666]

good question. It looks good but let us know because I was going to use the same settings for another encode I was getting ready for. As slow as my cpu is, I may start a higher encode now and it will be ready may may 7th :)

[Clown shoes]

Like I said, test it out first but I truly believe that less than 12Mbps would not be worth it, if your encoding to 1080p.

@Crowley, I'm working on a way of encoding directly to VC1 with Cinevision 1.2 and then transfering to WMV. The potential quality will be amazing but the process is currently long winded.

[bluesk1d]

That 5 days was excruciating!

@ACrowley and Zambelli

I had been digging around the internet for days looking for exactly what you described. I am in the process of researching how to convert the various media I have to be able to stream to my 360 (HD DVD being one of them).

I seem to have your video encoding part down with no problem. I also don’t have any drop frame issues with having the v_quality set to 100. Maybe it’s the buffer size allowing it time to determine if it needs to increase compression for a complex scene coming up. Who knows?

The audio on the other hand is driving me crazy…
I searched around and got Orbitlee’s source filter and used it to add an AC3 to my graph and then connected that to the sonic audio decoder 4.2 as recommended. If I have the default direct sound renderer attached I can hear the audio just fine but when I remove the renderer and save the graph, I get this error when running my wmcmd.vbs (I have the one released a few days ago):

“Prepare to encode failed with error -1072882832 Cannot find a valid output stream from the source.”

My AVS is this (I totally guessed here and this may be my problem):

DirectShowSource("g:\staging\audio.grf")

My GRF looks like this:

Orbitlee’s source filter (Opening the AC3 file) > Sonic Audio Decoder 4.2 >

My command is this:

cmd /k cscript.exe c:\Windows\wmcmd.vbs -input "g:\staging\audio-test.avs" -output "g:\staging\audio-test.wma" -a_codec WMAPRO -a_mode 0 -a_setting 440_48_6_24 –audioonly

I have also tried AC3Filter since it also seems to clearly be outputting 6 channels.

Anyone have any thoughts? I couldn’t find anything relevant regarding this error message and Windows Media Encoder 9.

I have WME 9, WMP11, and the latest VC-1 SDK from Microsoft.com.

Regarding converting existing media, what do you recommend for quickly displaying the frame rate and frame count of AVI and other files? Also, I have an older AVI file that contains a WMV3 video and an AC3 stream. Is there anyway to demux that without re-encoding the video and then just encoding the AC3 into WMA Pro and remuxing (trying to avoid the 30 hour encoding time and the quality loss in the conversion process since it’s already WMV)?

Thanks in advance for all your wisdom :thanks:

[ACrowley]

That 5 days was excruciating!

@ACrowley and Zambelli

The audio on the other hand is driving me crazy…
I searched around and got Orbitlee’s source filter and used it to add an AC3 to my graph and then connected that to the sonic audio decoder 4.2 as recommended. If I have the default direct sound renderer attached I can hear the audio just fine but when I remove the renderer and save the graph, I get this error when running my wmcmd.vbs (I have the one released a few days ago):

“Prepare to encode failed with error -1072882832 Cannot find a valid output stream from the source.”

My AVS is this (I totally guessed here and this may be my problem):

DirectShowSource("g:\staging\audio.grf")

My GRF looks like this:

Orbitlee’s source filter (Opening the AC3 file) > Sonic Audio Decoder 4.2 >

My command is this:

cmd /k cscript.exe c:\Windows\wmcmd.vbs -input "g:\staging\audio-test.avs" -output "g:\staging\audio-test.wma" -a_codec WMAPRO -a_mode 0 -a_setting 440_48_6_24 –audioonly

I have also tried AC3Filter since it also seems to clearly be outputting 6 channels.

Anyone have any thoughts? I couldn’t find anything relevant regarding this error message and Windows Media Encoder 9.

I have WME 9, WMP11, and the latest VC-1 SDK from Microsoft.com.

Regarding converting existing media, what do you recommend for quickly displaying the frame rate and frame count of AVI and other files? Also, I have an older AVI file that contains a WMV3 video and an AC3 stream. Is there anyway to demux that without re-encoding the video and then just encoding the AC3 into WMA Pro and remuxing (trying to avoid the 30 hour encoding time and the quality loss in the conversion process since it’s already WMV)?

Thanks in advance for all your wisdom :thanks:


About the Audio

Dont encode the graph directly via AVs..
Decode the EAC3 to wave (use eac3to.exe).
Then use Tranzcode to decode the big 5.1 24bit wave to 6 mono waves, and encode the 6 monos with wmencoder.

About wmv/ AC3 in avi.
Demux the wmv Video with AviMux.
Then you can remux wmv wit wma withg wmstreameditor

[bluesk1d]

Thanks for the reply! What was it you guys were using the Orbitlee>Sonic 4.2 graph for? I found eac3to and tranzcode so I will have to give those a shot. I don't think the file in question is E-AC3. I am pretty sure its just regular AC3. I also have the same problem with DTS. Is there no other way to retain the 6 channels in AC3/DTS while converting to WMA Pro without first going to 6 mono wavs?

I did try decoding the AC3 file with BeSweet and that was able to create 6 WAVs. Do you combine them with the WME9 GUI or do you use the command line vbs? I looked around in the GUI but didnt see the option to encode to WMA Pro or create a 5.1 file out of 6 wavs.

Also, what happens if my "framecount" value is more than the video actually is? If you do not know the frame count is it ok to overshoot the value or will that mess up the VC-1 encode when it unexpectedly reaches the end?

[twan69666]

You need to use wmencoder. Choose a custom session. Under the audio option you need to select "both device and file" and in the drop down menu there should be an option to select 6 wavs. Im doing this from memory because Im not on my cpu.

As far as the frame count issue, my audio is like .059 seconds off and it was fine

[bluesk1d]

Oh yeah I forgot to ask anyone that plays these with a Xbox 360... How does it handle outputting the 5.1 channel WMA content in some fashion that lets you hear all the channels? Does it have to transcode it back to AC3 on the fly to be able to be decoded by a stereo/receiver? If so, its kind of silly that they dont allow AC3 in media files.

[twan69666]

Mine sounds great with 5.1 wma's. The whole WMA->AC3 thing Im not sure about though.

[bluesk1d]

You need to use wmencoder. Choose a custom session. Under the audio option you need to select "both device and file" and in the drop down menu there should be an option to select 6 wavs. Im doing this from memory because Im not on my cpu.

As far as the frame count issue, my audio is like .059 seconds off and it was fine

I was able to combine 6 mono wavs created from an AC3 source in BeSweet to a 5.1 channel WMA in WMEncoder with no problem. When I create 6 wavs from a DTS file in Tranzcode, WMEncoder throws up an error saying:

"The source must be a mono channel .wav file"

even though they are 6 mono wavs...

Any ideas?

[twan69666]

Im not sure. Ive never used tranzcode. When I have a dts file, I use "eac3to" then used the besweet gui to go back to 6 mono wavs, then to wmencoder. Never any problems for me.

[bluesk1d]

Im not sure. Ive never used tranzcode. When I have a dts file, I use "eac3to" then used the besweet gui to go back to 6 mono wavs, then to wmencoder. Never any problems for me.

Oh nice. I didn't realize eac3to would also accept regular AC3 and DTS as input. I will have to give it a whirl when I get home from work.

Mine sounds great with 5.1 wma's. The whole WMA->AC3 thing Im not sure about though.

Cool thanks for the info. Do you play back your 5.1 WMAs from your 360 through a 5.1 receiver/speaker system? If so, are they still 5.1 when you hear it? If they are, you might take a look at the front of your receiver and see what kind of signal it says it's receiving from the 360 (DD, DTS, etc.). Just curious.

[twan69666]

Oh yeah, I love my audio. They are 5.1 all they way! My yamaha shows a 5.1 signal being sent no matter what (I have it hooked up optically) . But when its stereo, it only comes out 2 channel. I dont have any extra processing turned on until I start watching a movie/playing a game

[zambelli]

I have also tried AC3Filter since it also seems to clearly be outputting 6 channels.

Anyone have any thoughts? I couldn’t find anything relevant regarding this error message and Windows Media Encoder 9.
There's more to it then just the number of channels. The actual output and formatting of the PCM samples is also important. 16-bit? 24-bit? Floating point? Etc.

I have WME 9, WMP11, and the latest VC-1 SDK from Microsoft.com.
Latest VC-1 SDK? What exactly are you referring to?

Regarding converting existing media, what do you recommend for quickly displaying the frame rate and frame count of AVI and other files? Also, I have an older AVI file that contains a WMV3 video and an AC3 stream. Is there anyway to demux that without re-encoding the video and then just encoding the AC3 into WMA Pro and remuxing (trying to avoid the 30 hour encoding time and the quality loss in the conversion process since it’s already WMV)?
You can use GSpot or VirtualDub to check out your source AVIs for information.
You can use Solveig Multimedia's ASF Multiplexer to simply copy streams from AVI to ASF without recompression.

[zambelli]

You guys covered a lot of topics over the last few days so let me try to address some of them...

@ Multichannel input:

By far the most reliable way to get multichannel sources converted to WMA Pro is to decode your source to 6 or 8 mono 16-bit PCM WAV files. If your source is AC3, BeSweet will do this with the -6ch core parameter. Once in that format, you can either load all the mono files with the WME9 GUI, or if you prefer to do it from the command-line, you can use the Mono to Multichannel Wave Combiner (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/utilities.aspx) to generate a multichannel audio AVI - and that encode that with WMCmd.vbs and the -input or -a_input parameters.

Encoding on the fly from .avs or .ac3 with WME9/WMCmd can be tricky because WME9 is very picky about the format of the multichannel source. If it's not the right precision, right channel mapping, etc - it won't work. I'll try to dig up more information for you about what actually does work, but in the meantime - I recommend just going the mono WAV route. You can easily write a batch file that'll do the AC3 --> 6 WAV --> AVI conversion for you automatically.


@ CBR vs 2-pass VBR:

I think there's some misconception here about how CBR encoding works, so let me try to nip that misconception in the bud. :) When you encode video in CBR mode, the flow of bits over time is not constant. Each frame is not the same size because a GOP contains I, P and B frames - and they all compress differently. So a true constant bitrate in video encoding is almost impossible. Read these articles:

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb288662.aspx

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb331867.aspx

So when you say that 2-pass VBR is no good because the Xbox decoder can't handle above 12 Mbps, but then suggest encoding in 1-pass CBR with a 60 second buffer - that doesn't make sense at all. Check this out:

1 pass CBR, 8 Mbps, 60 second buffer:
Decoding memory required: 480 Mbits, or 57.2 Mbytes.

2-pass peak VBR, 8 Mbps avg, 12 Mbps peak, 5 sec (default) peak buffer:
Decoding memory required: 60 Mbits, or 7.15 Mbytes

So as you can see, 1-pass CBR in this case would actually require MORE memory to decode because of the large buffer. Furthermore, within that large buffer the bitrate per second is more likely to oscillate than within a short 5 second buffer.

Bottom line: it's not about the bitrate. It's about the buffer size.

2-pass peak constrained VBR is the way to go. After the Xbox update is released next month with a new VC-1 decoder in it, the decoder performance will be much better anyway.

[bluesk1d]

Im not sure. Ive never used tranzcode. When I have a dts file, I use "eac3to" then used the besweet gui to go back to 6 mono wavs, then to wmencoder. Never any problems for me.

Is there some other flavor of eac3to that handles dts? As far as I know, I have the most current. When I run it, it says, "The file extension of the source file must be eac3, dd+, ddp, ec3 or wav." Its only expecting Dolby audio. You're sure thats what you used for DTS?

[twan69666]

Yes, just change the extention on your .dts file to .ddp. Anytime I did that it worked fine

[twan69666]

@ zambelli

Thanks! So I understand everything your saying, but one question. For a 2 pass vbr, should we be using the 5 sec buffer or should we increase it?

[bluesk1d]

Yes, just change the extention on your .dts file to .ddp. Anytime I did that it worked fine

Unfortunately when I do that, it says "The source file format is unknown" :(

[ACrowley]

Is there some other flavor of eac3to that handles dts? As far as I know, I have the most current. When I run it, it says, "The file extension of the source file must be eac3, dd+, ddp, ec3 or wav." Its only expecting Dolby audio. You're sure thats what you used for DTS?

Just use Tranzcode directly on the DTS HD Audio. Dont extract the dtscore .

So you will get 6mono waves and you can encode them into WMencoder

The only Problem is WMencoder cant take 32Bit waves.
So you have to convert the waves with Tranzcode

Tranzcode yourDTSHDaudio.dts /24

That will give you 6 mono waves in 24bit

Otherwise you can encode 32bit waves to wma with Steinberg Nuendo

greets

[bluesk1d]

Tranzcode yourDTSHDaudio.dts /24


You're da man!

[bluesk1d]

Just a tip for all of you that do a fair amount of encoding (for the 360 or otherwise), here is a simple way to increase computer (Windows)performance while you are encoding movies and such.

1. Start your encode
2. Open task manager and click on the processes tab
3. Click the CPU culumn header twice to sort by most CPU usage
4. Right click on that process (cscript.exe as an example) and point to Set Priority > Below Normal
5. Click Yes

This will allow the process full access to the power of your CPU while granting all other processes higher priority. Unless you are using your computer for other intensive and time consuming applications, you will not notice any increase in the time it takes to encode. What you will notice is your computer will behave as if it is not encoding anything and will not be dog slow. You can just minimize the encoding window and forget about it.

[zambelli]

@ zambelli

Thanks! So I understand everything your saying, but one question. For a 2 pass vbr, should we be using the 5 sec buffer or should we increase it?
If you're doing unconstrained 2-pass VBR, then you have no control over the buffer. The encoder determines the buffer size automatically. If you're using 2-pass peak constrained VBR, then you can set a peak buffer size. I guess the answer is "set it as large as you can while maintaining smooth playback on the Xbox". :)

[bill55]

What is the best way to encode. I know ACrowley suggested a CBR encode.

If I am encoding at 1080p for the 360 what is the best method? CBR encode as he suggested or am I better of with a Constant Quality encode. I have seen people suggest CQ so that way darker seens don't get that artifacting (or whaetver it's called) in the black.

In either case, any settings you guys can suggest is appreciated! I did a CBR encode at 9mbps for Batman Begins HD-DVD at 1080p this week. It looks pretty nice to me, but I know others have suggested higher bitrates for 1080p. This took about 79 hours for me to encode. Whatever the best method if you can provide the appropriate settings to use I'd really appreciate it

Thanks so much!
Bill

Edit- My CBR 9mpbs encode does not play for me on the 360. I tried streaming it from Media Center Extender and it won't load. The other encode I did (-CQ 90) plays, but seems to stutter every now and again. Mainly during high action scenes). Any suggestions.

[Icemaan]

Hello
After long Testing I have sucessfull finished my first Rip from Hddvd to Wmv.
First thanks to all which write here so much and help others.
My first Titel which I ripped was Password Swordfish
But now i want do my Number 2 but cannot demux the Audio Stream to Ac3 with Eac3to
Password Swordfish goes but by Batman Begin come a Header Error
Can anyone help me

Thanks a lot

Icemaan

[Icemaan]

Ok here the Error eacto returned

Parsing of Dolby Digital Header Failed
What is not correct because in Swordfish eacto works

Please help me

Icemaan

[jokin]

Ok here the Error eacto returned

Parsing of Dolby Digital Header Failed
What is not correct because in Swordfish eacto works

Please help me

Icemaan

Are you sure you did not pick the TrueHD soundtrack?

[Icemaan]

Are you sure you did not pick the TrueHD soundtrack?

I Test it with all Audio Sources only the 2channel works and I get one Ac3 Stereo File.
By the others comes the parser Error and bei one File comes unknown Format
Source is Batmans Begin Hddvd
I not know what i can do more
Icemaan

[bill55]

Icemaan: I got the DD+ soundtrack on Batman Begins to work. My graph was "Orbitlee DTS/AC3/DD+ source filter -> Sonic Cinemaster Audio Decoder 4.2". You must configure the Decoder to use 5.1 as well or you will only get 2.0.

By the way, what do you video encode settings look like? Are you doing 720p or 1080p?

[Icemaan]

Icemaan: I got the DD+ soundtrack on Batman Begins to work. My graph was "Orbitlee DTS/AC3/DD+ source filter -> Sonic Cinemaster Audio Decoder 4.2". You must configure the Decoder to use 5.1 as well or you will only get 2.0.

By the way, what do you video encode settings look like? Are you doing 720p or 1080p?

Video encoding i do 720 p
I want Test your graph where i can config the Decoder
icemaan

[bill55]

You can config the decoder in Control Panel.

[Clown shoes]

I have something very strange going on and it maybe the same problem Iceman is reporting. All my ac3 files are suddenly being reported as 2 channel ac3 by ac3filter. The file does contain the correct channels though, because I can transcode to .wma and ac3filter recognises all the channels without any problems. I am using Orbitlee's latest complete filter and I'm wondering whether it could be causing the problem.

[bill55]

I am having a completely different (but equally strange) issue myself.

I decided to set up another PC strictly as an encoder PC. I installed Xp Pro, WinDVD8, Sonic CinePlayer Decoder Pack 4.2

I open graphedit, hit CTRL-F and select my .vc1 video file (Happy Feet). I then select the Sonic Cineplayer Video Decoder 4.2 filter. When I try to link the 2 the graphedit hangs. On my other PC it automatically implements HD Demuxer and autolinks all 3 filters together. If I manually add the demuxer I can connect that to the .vc1 file. When I output the HD Demuxer to the Sonic Video Decoder it gives me an error that there are no combination of filters that will allow me to join those 2 (I don't remember the exact verbage).

Is there some other program I am forgetting to install to make this work? It works fine on my other PC, but I can't for the life of me think of what could be wrong? Thanks!

Bill

[Icemaan]

@all

ok DD+ works now. I have split with HdBd Split for Test and it not work (parser error)
When i Demux the full Movie with EvoDemux all works fine
Thanks for this great Tool
Icemaan

[zambelli]

What is the best way to encode. I know ACrowley suggested a CBR encode.
CBR is fine, but you need to be careful with the video buffer (v_buffer) size. Setting it to 60 seconds like many people here seem to be doing is not good, in my opinion. It imposes a huge decoder memory requirement.

If I am encoding at 1080p for the 360 what is the best method? CBR encode as he suggested or am I better of with a Constant Quality encode. I have seen people suggest CQ so that way darker seens don't get that artifacting (or whaetver it's called) in the black.
No, definitely don't use CQ (1p VBR) mode. You have no control over bitrate or buffer size in that mode - so it's totally not suitable for the Xbox.
Dark area artifacting can be better treated with advanced options like dquant and adaptive dead zone than with CQ mode.

Edit- My CBR 9mpbs encode does not play for me on the 360. I tried streaming it from Media Center Extender and it won't load. The other encode I did (-CQ 90) plays, but seems to stutter every now and again. Mainly during high action scenes). Any suggestions.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, big buffer sizes will kill the decoder. Try either CBR or 2-pass peak constrained VBR with buffer and peakbuffer no larger than 10 seconds. If they play back without stuttering, try increasing the buffer until you hit the stuttering point.

[bill55]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, big buffer sizes will kill the decoder. Try either CBR or 2-pass peak constrained VBR with buffer and peakbuffer no larger than 10 seconds. If they play back without stuttering, try increasing the buffer until you hit the stuttering point.

If you were to encode Batman Begins at 1080p for the 360, what would your command line be? I don't understand all the command line options and exactly what each does. If you could post a good command line I'll encode with that. The last CBR (9mpbs) encode I did took 80 hours and didn't play when it was done. I really don't want to do that again.

(Am I foolish for using 1080p instead of 720p)? I do have a 1080p TV that I use (even though I only get 1080i from the 360). It just seems like if my TV can handle the 1080 resolution I should be using that instead of the lower 720p resolution. What do you guys think?

ps- Any idea as to why my other PC won't create the graphs correctly with Sonic?

Thanks!
Bill

[sportcenter]

(Am I foolish for using 1080p instead of 720p)? I do have a 1080p TV that I use (even though I only get 1080i from the 360). It just seems like if my TV can handle the 1080 resolution I should be using that instead of the lower 720p resolution. What do you guys think?


does your tv have a VGA input? if so, you can get the vga cable for the X360 and it will output 1080p....or grab the new Elite :)

[zambelli]

(Am I foolish for using 1080p instead of 720p)? I do have a 1080p TV that I use (even though I only get 1080i from the 360). It just seems like if my TV can handle the 1080 resolution I should be using that instead of the lower 720p resolution. What do you guys think?
Batman Begins movie is already 1080p VC-1 encoded - why would you want to recompress it again? It kind of defeats the point of HD. Just re-encoded the audio to WMA Pro, mux it with the original video into ASF and then play it without stuttering when the new flash update is released next month (it will contain an updated and better VC-1 decoder).

[bill55]

does your tv have a VGA input? if so, you can get the vga cable for the X360 and it will output 1080p....or grab the new Elite :)

I do have a VGA input, but very few tv's on the market let you use 1080p via VGA.

I think I'll pass on the "Elite". I'd be spending another $500 basically for an HDMI port. Little over priced in my opinion. Should have had the HD drive built in for that much.

[bill55]

Batman Begins movie is already 1080p VC-1 encoded - why would you want to recompress it again? It kind of defeats the point of HD. Just re-encoded the audio to WMA Pro, mux it with the original video into ASF and then play it without stuttering when the new flash update is released next month (it will contain an updated and better VC-1 decoder).

So with next months update I will be able to just mux in new audio and play it as it is? It will be able to stream the full VC-1 encoded video as it is on the HD-DVD?

Of course having a bunch of 20gig movies on the HD to stream will get a little hard to do. HD space will get filled up fast at that rate. I'd still like to get this converted since I have about 10 hours of work into learning how to do it and about 120 hours of encode time (all non-working in the end). If anyone could post a command line I should use to encode I'd be super appreciative!

Bill

[ACrowley]

What is the best way to encode. I know ACrowley suggested a CBR encode.
QUOTE]

I ,and other people, suggest 1pass CBR ,because its the best Alternative to encode WVC1 for Xbox360.
2pass VBR Peak and unconstrained is a Problmen for the current 360 Decoder.
So 1pass CBR with high Bitrates its the best Alternative at the Moment.
But ofcourse 2pass VBR is generally the best, on all Mpeg4 Codecs


About the 60000Buffer:

The Xbox360 has absolutely no Problem with a 60000 Buffer.Definitely not!
I think its a not a Memory Problmem ,its CPU Problem.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=897308&highlight=buffer#post897308

High VBR Peak Bitrate causes higher CPU Load .Thats the Problem for the currect 360 Decoder,so not the Memory is the Bottleneck.
high VBR Peak requires more System Load as a 60000Buffer, so i dont believe you can compare it.
Maybe a 120sec + Buffer can be a Problem, but not 60 sec

Also its not my own Suggestion to use 60000Buffer.
In older Threads a few guys said its more efficient to use a larger Buffer on CBR Mode ..i will search for this Threads.

EDIT:
Here are some postings about larger Buffer :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111385&highlight=60000+Buffer

[QUOTE=zambelli;830220]
Some postings:
You should add an option for Video Buffer size. Setting the buffer size to large values (i.e. 60 secs) on long offline encodes should improve the quality. It should be set to lower values on either short sources or when streaming.


http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=832622&highlight=buffer#post832622
If you increase the size of the video buffer (default = 5 sec), you can make the 1pCBR mode act more like a 1pVBR mode with average bitrate. Try setting the video buffer to 60 seconds or maybe even 120 secs if your content is long (i.e. feature movie length). You'll probably get better quality out of 1pCBR.

There are other Threads/Postings on other Forums.
Because Xbox360 Playback with a 60000Buffer is fine, i used the 60000Buffer for my encodes

Batman Begins movie is already 1080p VC-1 encoded - why would you want to recompress it again? It kind of defeats the point of HD. Just re-encoded the audio to WMA Pro, mux it with the original video into ASF and then play it without stuttering when the new flash update is released next month (it will contain an updated and better VC-1 decoder).

At the Moment you cant mux HDDVD VC1 into asf/wmv properly.
Also its another Question if the Xbox360 Dashboard Decoder can handle those high Bitrates above 25Mbps.

And the generell Question about the Sense of reencoding :well min 50% of this Forum is about reencoding/ recompression.
There are always enough Reasons..Filesize etc, maybe its a hobby to encode Video etc etc
Why not recompress it to 720p and burn it on a DVD9 ? Ofcourse you will lost Quality but when you know your business you can encode perfect Results. Also a lot of People cant play 1080p. They have no 1080p Display, not the Hardware to play 1080p


Cool thanks for the info. Do you play back your 5.1 WMAs from your 360 through a 5.1 receiver/speaker system? If so, are they still 5.1 when you hear it? If they are, you might take a look at the front of your receiver and see what kind of signal it says it's receiving from the 360 (DD, DTS, etc.). Just curious.

Xbox360 outputs WMA as Dolby Digital 5.1. via SPDIF .Take a look into 360 System Settings.
For PC Playback you can use AC3Filter in the decoding chain and it will outputs AC3 5.1 to via SPDIF

[Icemaan]

@ACrowley

When i use my reencoding to play on a Httpc (CoreDuo4300@2,4 Ghz) can I use 2pass VBR. If yes may be you have tested the 2pass VBR and perhaps you have some Settings (Dvd9 Size)
Thanks for answer
Icemaan

[bluesk1d]

Xbox360 outputs WMA as Dolby Digital 5.1. via SPDIF .Take a look into 360 System Settings.
For PC Playback you can use AC3Filter in the decoding chain and it will outputs AC3 5.1 to via SPDIF

Come on Microsoft... You refuse to support DD in media files and force everyone to use WMA 5.1 yet you convert it to DD on-the-fly anyway so it'll play on receivers? We have to convert AC3 to an MS format only so they can convert it back haha lame-o.

[bluesk1d]

DirectShowSource("G:\batman.grf",fps=23.976,framecount=201467,seekzero=false,seek=true,audio=false)
Crop(0, 128, -0, -152)
spline36resize(1280,536)
converttoyv12()
Removegrain(mode=2)
Asharp(1,3)

I was looking at some of the filtering and processing you were using here and when I use Asharp, the left half of the video is tinted purple. Am I missing something?

[zambelli]

Also its not my own Suggestion to use 60000Buffer.
In older Threads a few guys said its more efficient to use a larger Buffer on CBR Mode ..i will search for this Threads.
Well, I wasn't arguing against the 60 sec buffer as a general encoding method. Yes, larger buffer is better for encoding quality. But in the context of the Xbox - it didn't seem like an appropriate choice.

However, since you've probably encoded more content for the Xbox than I have, your experience is probably more authorative than mine. If 60 second buffers work - then I guess it's OK to use them. Once the new decoder gets released though - I think people should start switching to 2-pass VBR encoding (once everyone figures out what the bitrate/buffer limits are).

Also its another Question if the Xbox360 Dashboard Decoder can handle those high Bitrates above 25Mbps.
The new dashboard VC-1 decoder ought to be the same as the current HD-DVD unit VC-1 decoder.

[zambelli]

I know some of you have had trouble encoding multichannel audio directly from Avisynth scripts. I looked into the issue further today and it would seem that WME9 SDK and WMCmd are only able to accept PCM audio in WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE format. Avisynth, on the other hand, outputs PCM audio without the WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE header - so WME9/WMCmd always throw that error complaining about an unknown audio codec.

I'm trying to find out if there's any workaround for this, but in the meantime, I would recommend just decoding the audio to mono WAVs (i.e. with BeSweet) and then either encoding them to WMA Pro with WME9, or linking them into a multichannel AVI with the combiner (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/utilities.aspx) tool and encoding with WMCmd.vbs. It's an extra step (or two), but easily automatable with batch files.

[ACrowley]

Well, I wasn't arguing against the 60 sec buffer as a general encoding method. Yes, larger buffer is better for encoding quality. But in the context of the Xbox - it didn't seem like an appropriate choice.
However, since you've probably encoded more content for the Xbox than I have, your experience is probably more authorative than mine. If 60 second buffers work - then I guess it's OK to use them. .

Yep..360 has no Problems with a 60000Buffer..and as you say it will give you Qualiy improvement in 1pass CBR.


Once the new decoder gets released though - I think people should start switching to 2-pass VBR encoding (once everyone figures out what the bitrate/buffer limits are).


My current encodes are already are 2pass VBR Peak.
In 1pass CBR a 720p 8mbps 120min Movie takes me
around 17h to encode with wmcmd and preset better.

The same encode but with 2pass VBR Peak 8 mbps and 12.5Mbps Peak takes me 20h to encode.
So the encoding Time is fine compared to 1pass CBR.


The new dashboard VC-1 decoder ought to be the same as the current HD-DVD unit VC-1 decoder.

Yes...theoretical
For example the new H264 Decoder is the HDDVD Decoder too ,but even though it can only handle max 10Mbps .
Thats what i mean. So perhaps the WMV9 AP decoder is restricted too. Surely not only to 10Mbps. But maybe around 20Mbps.
But ofcourse 20Mbps Peak is OK in many instances.

So its questionable if the new Decoder can play HDDVD VC1 with very High Bitrates
However, currently its not possible to mux HDDVD VC1 into wmv properly.

We will know it 7 May 07

[bluesk1d]

I have been encoding away for about a week with no problems thanks to this thread but one thing is annoying me... I use the web based bit calculator that ACrowley linked to earlier and I cant seem to get wmcmd.vbs to output a predictiable file size. It is always smaller than anticipated (trying to fill up a DVD9).

-v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 11100901 -v_keydist 30 -v_buffer 600000 -v_quality 100

Including a 768k WMA 10 5.1 stream, the above bitrate should have given me a 8652.8 Meg (8.45GB) file. However the file ended up being only 5313 Megs. Is that not a CBR command line I am using? What gives?

Also, has anyone seen what I had mentioned about the left half of the video being tinted purple when I use Asharp? Weird.

Another "also," I use the handy auto gain feature in BeSweet to boost the usually low gain AC3 sources. Is there anything like that for DTS (I use Tranzcode). Even if there was a way to batch process the 6 mono wavs that might be OK as well.

Thanks!

[ACrowley]

@bluesk1d
Youre using CBR. But your Buffer ist wrong

-v_buffer 600000 ?!

Take a look... your Buffer has one 0 to much!
Must be 60000 = 60000ms =6 sec Buffer

To calculate the Outputfilesize use Zambellis Calculator
http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/WMVBitCalc.html

Type in your Movie Runtime, Audio Bitrate and Targetsize

DVD5 = 4479
DVD9 =8138MB

With this i always get the correct Filesize in CBR MOde ( with v-_quality 100)

I never had any Problems with Asharp. Perhaps you ask in Avisynth Section

[bluesk1d]

Simply use Bitrate controlled encoding. Use a Bitrate Calculator and you can calcualte the Output Filesize.
Nothing Special ,its the same as with as other Codecs
Zambellis online Bitrate Calculator :
http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/WMVBitCalc.html

I use 1pass CBR WVC1 (WMV9 AP) with a 60000Buffer and Preset "better"
720p needs min 7-8Mbps ,1080p around 14Mbps
I encode to DVD9 Size (8138MB). With high Bitrate, 60000Buffer it looks better as 1pass VBR CQ ,imho

My Commandline for the latest wmcmd.vbs

cmd /k cscript.exe c:\windows\wmcmd.vbs -input inputvideo.avs -output g:\encodedvideo.wmv -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 8000000 -v_keydist 30 -v_buffer 600000 -v_quality 75

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123812

AVS Script Input something like that (it was Batman.Begins.HDDVD):

DirectShowSource("G:\batman.grf",fps=23.976,framecount=201467,seekzero=false,seek=true,audio=false)
Crop(0, 128, -0, -152)
spline36resize(1280,536)
converttoyv12()
Removegrain(mode=2)
Asharp(1,3)

Here is a sample from one of my WVC1 720p encodes, looks very nice and plays perfect on Xbox360 via stream or Gamedrive
Its from Superman.Returns HDDVD VC1 :
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WL2GNL38

I just copied and pasted the command line with the -v_buffer 600000 from your post here! Haha I had no idea it was a typo. The funny part is the 360 has been playing them via the 802.11G wireless adapter without any problem at all!

[foxyshadis]

There's probably a maximum limit in the codec itself, then. I wonder what it would be.

[ACrowley]

I just copied and pasted the command line with the -v_buffer 600000 from your post here! Haha I had no idea it was a typo. The funny part is the 360 has been playing them via the 802.11G wireless adapter without any problem at all!

Oh..i remeber..SRY

Yes...as i say Xbox360 has absoutly no Problem with large Buffer Sizes...

But use 60000 = 60sec

[proteus7]

WMEncode under Vista x64 seems to be completely broken...at least for 2 pass.

Using the gui, with 2 pass vbr or CBR, I get the following:
CAVIStreamSynth:System exception Access Violation at 0x0, reading from 0,0.

1 pass CBR works fine

For text mode, i'll run the wmcmd script (making sure to run cscript from syswow64 directory) and get nothing.
Could this be, like everything else broken with Vista, that this could be a permissions issue for the 1st pass encoder file? Where does this 1st pass reside?

If not..I'm not sure what else to say. XP of course works fine. And yes, I do have the hotfix installed...

Thanks!

[zambelli]

WMEncode under Vista x64 seems to be completely broken...at least for 2 pass.
32-bit WME9, I assume?
For text mode, i'll run the wmcmd script (making sure to run cscript from syswow64 directory) and get nothing.
Could this be, like everything else broken with Vista, that this could be a permissions issue for the 1st pass encoder file? Where does this 1st pass reside?
First pass data is stored in memory.
Make sure you are running the 32-bit cmd.exe too. Running it under admin privilege probably helps too.

[proteus7]

Yep,
32-bit CMD, with runas Administrator. I can't get 2-pass to work.

64-bit WMEncoder would be ideal, but I guess non of the codecs seem to work with it, as I keep getting a "module not registered" with 64-bit. Would be nice if the codec and video tools companys started releaseing native x64 code...any serious workstation these days will be x64 capable.

32bit WME on 1-pass CBR works..but when I mux the audio and video together (I demuxed the DTSHD stream with Tranzcode, and rencoded with WME as WMAPro), my timesync is WAY off. Not sure how to fix this. I am using WM Stream Edit to mux..is there a better way?

Thanks!

[zambelli]

I'll look into this issue. I think I have Vista x64 installed on one of my test machines at work.

[bluesk1d]

AVS Script Input something like that (it was Batman.Begins.HDDVD):

DirectShowSource("G:\batman.grf",fps=23.976,framecount=201467,seekzero=false,seek=true,audio=false)
Crop(0, 128, -0, -152)
spline36resize(1280,536)
converttoyv12()
Removegrain(mode=2)
Asharp(1,3)

I know you had mentioned Batman Begins speficically but I am running into issues with this movie and EVODemux. I get about the first 40 minutes or so looping for the normal movie duration. Did you get that when you demuxed? I could be choosing the wrong stream or something. What method do you use in determining which of the many audio/video streams are the ones you actually want?

[ACrowley]

I know you had mentioned Batman Begins speficically but I am running into issues with this movie and EVODemux. I get about the first 40 minutes or so looping for the normal movie duration. Did you get that when you demuxed? I could be choosing the wrong stream or something. What method do you use in determining which of the many audio/video streams are the ones you actually want?


EVodemux tells you everything you need ?!

Sometimes you have VC1 stream 0 and Stream 1.
Ofcourse you have to take the 1920x1080 Stream. mostly VC1 Stream 0

[NHRaider]

I've been converting HD-DVD to WMV for playback on my Helios X5000 media player. I've encountered a problem in playback and am trying to get my Xbox360 to test if there are problems with the files.

History:
1) Was successfully able to encode with 2 channel WMV via wmcmd.vbs.
2) Using eac3to and Tranzcode (6 mono wavs), created WMA in WME and have used stream edit to mux the Video created from AVS->WME.

* All WMV files play beautifully on the PC.
*2 channel WMV files play beautifully on the Helios Media Player. (8Mb sample)
*5.1 WMV files have slow/choppy audio on the media player (10.8Mb Sample)

Accessing Media Center from XBOX360:
When I tried to play these WMV files on the Xbox360, after selecting the movie the screen displays "Finished" - with the options of restart, delete, or done. I can't even play the WMV-HD samples from Microsoft site.

I went back and kept the same Video with sampling at 10.8MB bit rate, and created another wma file by changing the audio from 768Kbps 6 channel 48KHz to 440Kbps 6 channel 48KHz and then muxed the movie back together... And the movie was able to play on the media player but still not on the XBOX360.

I further went back and kept the same Video with sampling at 10.8MB bit rate, and created another wma file by changing the audio from 440Kbps 6 channel 48KHz to 440Kbps 2 channel 48KHz and then muxed the movie back together... And the movie was able to play on the media player and on the XBOX360.

Any clue why these multi-channel audio files will not play and seem to finish immediately with the xbox360?

Also, any comment on why I can stream 440Kbps vs 768Kbps for the 5.1 audio?

Edit: I was having problems playing via Media Center...but accessing Media>Video>Computer>Zune, I had no issues with playing the 6 channel...so the problem was playing 6 channel is Media Center...

So..I still want to stream via my Helios Media player...My question is... Is the sampling of 768Kbps much different in quality than 448Kbps for 48KHz, 5.1channel??

[twan69666]

You may just want to give it a break and try again after the 7th when the new codec/dashboard player comes out. I dont think they are doing much to MCE however. I think thats what most people are doing

[NHRaider]

You may just want to give it a break and try again after the 7th when the new codec/dashboard player comes out. I dont think they are doing much to MCE however. I think thats what most people are doing

I figured out the problem with the Helios X-5000 streaming problem...The audio is garbled when the audio is encoded at 768kbps or higher...so I have been encoding at 640.

I was trying to test the files with the XBOX360 and finally got it working but I prefer the Helios streaming since it's HDMI and outputing 1080p...

I can only set the XBOX360 to 1080i since I'm using component cables...And I don't want to migrate to the Elite which has the HDMI...no need since I have time invested in the current console.

[zambelli]

I can only set the XBOX360 to 1080i since I'm using component cables...And I don't want to migrate to the Elite which has the HDMI...no need since I have time invested in the current console.
If you're mostly playing 24p content, then 1080p or 1080i become irrelevant because the true 24p progressive video can be reconstructed from both signals.

[NHRaider]

If you're mostly playing 24p content, then 1080p or 1080i become irrelevant because the true 24p progressive video can be reconstructed from both signals.

I just checked my TV and I do have an input for the 1080P from the Xbox via VGA...

My Mitsubishi:
PC DVI-I Input
VGA-XGA, 1280 x 720 Analog Yes
VGA-SXGA, 1920 x 1080 Analog Yes
VGA-SXGA, 1280 x 720, 1920 x 1080 Digital Yes

I was looking online at the XBOX 360 VGA Cables and this is the description:
"The Xbox 360 VGA HDAV Cable delivers superior picture quality and lifelike, dynamic sound. The DV-15S standard VGA connector captures all of the console's incredible graphics technology. On the audio end, rumbling lows and piercing highs register via the Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound output. Get connected the modern way. Prepare for the next step in gaming and entertainment."

Ok...can someone explain how they are representing DD5.1 when this cable has the VGA + 2 RCA audio jacks for the output??? Wouldn't there need to be some optical output to get the 5.1 audio to the stereo?? I guess I'm missing something with everone encoding for XBOX streaming with wmapro 6 channel outputs when the only output on the xbox are these stereo outputs...

[twan69666]

I have the vga cable and it has an optical out just like the regular adapter. Well worth it in my opinion

[ACrowley]

NHLRaider

On All MS Xbox360 Cables is a Optical Output

And the Xbox360 outputs WMA Audio to DolbyDigital via SPDIF.
Ofcourse you can set it to WMA SPDIF when you have a Receiver with WMA Support

-------------------------------

EDIT:

Spring Update is there.
My first Look :

Pro :

-For now i tested a H264 1080p 8Mbps with AAC LC 2.0 and it works. Its a mp4 remuxed Nero AVC trailer.
-I cant play My own Test encodes with MainConcept 720p /23.976fps/ High Profile 4.1 Level / 6Mbps Vbr 9Mbps Peak

-To bad its restricted to 4.1 Level and only Stereo AAC LC
-Divx/Xvid remuxed in mp4 with AAC isnt working!

-Nice : Now you can set more AR Options. So i can zoom to FullScreen on 2.35:1 Content.
-Also theres a new Option to change the Language, so you can use more AudioTracks.

Currently i made Test encodes with WVC1 1080p
I cant find anything about a Decoder Update in the Feature Lists ??!

-WVC1 1080p 12Mbps VBR /19Mbps Peak isnt possible! Its choppy like Hell.
-WVC1 1080p 10Mbps VBR /15Mbps Peak inst possible too !! Its choppy
-WVC1 1080p 17Mbps CBR : smooth !

For the First Look theres no updated WMV AMP AP Decoder! Still not possible to use high Peak Bitrates

[Clown shoes]

Crowley, are you streaming or playing off discs?

[bluesk1d]

NHLRaider

On All MS Xbox360 Cables is a Optical Output

And the Xbox360 outputs WMA Audio to DolbyDigital via SPDIF.
Ofcourse you can set it to WMA SPDIF when you have a Receiver with WMA Support

-------------------------------

EDIT:

Spring Update is there.
My first Look :

Pro :

-For now i tested a H264 1080p 8Mbps with AAC LC 2.0 and it works. Its a mp4 remuxed Nero AVC trailer.
-I cant play My own Test encodes with MainConcept 720p /23.976fps/ High Profile 4.1 Level / 6Mbps Vbr 9Mbps Peak

-To bad its restricted to 4.1 Level and only Stereo AAC LC
-Divx/Xvid remuxed in mp4 with AAC isnt working!

-Nice : Now you can set more AR Options. So i can zoom to FullScreen on 2.35:1 Content.
-Also theres a new Option to change the Language, so you can use more AudioTracks.

Currently i made Test encodes with WVC1 1080p
I cant find anything about a Decoder Update in the Feature Lists ??!

-WVC1 1080p 12Mbps VBR /19Mbps Peak isnt possible! Its choppy like Hell.
-WVC1 1080p 10Mbps VBR /15Mbps Peak inst possible too !! Its choppy
-WVC1 1080p 17Mbps CBR : smooth !

For the First Look theres no updated WMV AMP AP Decoder! Still not possible to use high Peak Bitrates

How are you getting the files to the 360? I have found that VBR does not work all that well when you stream via the wireless adapter (haven't tried straight ethernet but it should be better). Have you tried burning them to disc or, better yet, putting one of your high peak VBR test files on a USB 2 thumb drive and plugging that into the 360?

[bluesk1d]

Crowley, are you streaming or playing off discs?

Haha nice. Same question posted at the same time.

[Clown shoes]

lol. Great minds think alike :)

[twan69666]

Hey ACrowley, yes there is a new vc1 encoder. I have a rip of Mission Impossible 3, and it plays fine. A little studdering in the beginning, but it seems to play ok. I only watched 10 minutes of it, but it was great.

Before, it would only play 30 sec or so, and then freeze. I did the typical rip->wmv coversion without reencoding. I havent tried any h264 vidoes yet but glad to hear they're working.

I also have a few xvid encodes that are showing up, but wont play. Kinda surprising they're showing up!

[ACrowley]

Haha nice. Same question posted at the same time.

I play them from DVD on Dashboard

But via WMP11 Stream the Decoder cant handle high VBR Peak too.
The MediaCenter Decoder is another Thing and has nothing to do with the Dashboard Player Updates

I made more Test @1080p with 2pass VBR Peak and High Peaks over 14-15 Mbps are still not working !

But CBR Mode works with 18Mbs and more

So, sadly i cant see any improvements ?! VBR Peak is clearly the Target for me.

Also ,i cant find any Facts about a updated Decoder ? Nothing....in no changelog/Feature List
Maybe it was only a Rumor ?

But ofcourse the new AR options and the possibility to change teh Audo Track is very nice
The H264 Decoder ...imho useless with max 10Mbps and 2.0 AAC LC, when you ask me

[twan69666]

Hey Crowley,

Mine is a 18mbps VBR and it plays (at least what I watched of it). Its a vc1 straight from the HDDVD. I streamed mine via lan from my cpu

[ACrowley]

Hey Crowley,

Mine is a 18mbps VBR and it plays (at least what I watched of it). Its a vc1 straight from the HDDVD. I streamed mine via lan from my cpu


You cant mux HDDVD VC1 into wmv ?! So you cant play VC1 in the DashboardPlayer . Not in Evo ,not in mkv

[zambelli]

I play them from DVD on Dashboard

But via WMP11 Stream the Decoder cant handle high VBR Peak too.
The MediaCenter Decoder is another Thing and has nothing to do with the Dashboard Player Updates
Yeah, it's been my understanding that the VC-1 decoder update would be for Dashboard only.

[Clown shoes]

You cant mux HDDVD VC1 into wmv ?! So you cant play VC1 in the DashboardPlayer . Not in Evo ,not in mkv

Actually, you can mux VC1 from an EVO into WMV, it's just a bit of a pain to do. I beleive a combination of Haali's splitter and the asf multiplexer in Graph edit, should do the trick.

[twan69666]

Actually, you can mux VC1 from an EVO into WMV, it's just a bit of a pain to do. I beleive a combination of Haali's splitter and the asf multiplexer in Graph edit, should do the trick.


Yep thats exactly what I did. Used haali's to mkv, extracted video, then used solevig's to asf. From there I used wmstream editor. Plays great. I cant remember my exact process because I did it a month ago and have been waiting for the update.

[zambelli]

Yep,
32-bit CMD, with runas Administrator. I can't get 2-pass to work.
I finally had some time to look into this. I couldn't repro this issue on my Vista x64 machine. Here's what I had installed:

WME9 x86 version
QFE KB929182 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/929182) for WME9 on Vista
My latest WMCmd.vbs (http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/#WMCmd)

I ran wmcmd.vbs under a 32-bit cmd.exe window (\Windows\SysWOW64\cmd.exe) in v_mode 3 and the encode completed without a problem. I verified using both .avi and .avs sources.

Make sure you don't have Ffdshow or some other codec set to intercept raw video and audio - in case that's inserting itself into the source decoding process.

[bluesk1d]

I have been trying without success to get Batman Begins converted to wmv for the 360... I was able to get the video encoded just fine using EVOdemux to extract the VC-1, construct a graph (Filesource Async > Sonic HD Demuxer > Sonic Decoder 4.2), and use wmcmd.vbs

The audio seems to convert just fine but like so many others, the audio gradually falls out of sync ahead of the video as if the duration of the audio is actually less than the video.

The method I used on the audio was:

1. Extract ddp from the EVO using EVODemux
2. Convert the ddp to a 6 channel wav using eac3to (converts to raw first)
3. Convert that wav to 6 mono wavs using tranzcode (also tried using eac3to to create an ac3 and then use BeSweet to split it up)
4. Encode the mono wavs in WME

The vid and audio files report the same length of 2:20:02 but I dont think it is off by a whole second so thats not surprising. Since using tranzcode and BeSweet produced the same result, it would seem this is happening during the EVODemux process or the eac3to process either when converting to or from RAW.

Any other methods I should try? This is driving me crazy! :eek:

[ACrowley]

Actually, you can mux VC1 from an EVO into WMV, it's just a bit of a pain to do. I beleive a combination of Haali's splitter and the asf multiplexer in Graph edit, should do the trick.


ah ok..youre right

However....i cant see any real Decoder improvements after the update

WVC1 2pass VBR Peak will not play smooth with high Bitrates.

CBR and high Bitrates works

I dont care..i always encode in x264 for my private purposes

[NHRaider]

I have been trying without success to get Batman Begins converted to wmv for the 360... I was able to get the video encoded just fine using EVOdemux to extract the VC-1, construct a graph (Filesource Async > Sonic HD Demuxer > Sonic Decoder 4.2), and use wmcmd.vbs

The audio seems to convert just fine but like so many others, the audio gradually falls out of sync ahead of the video as if the duration of the audio is actually less than the video.

The method I used on the audio was:

1. Extract ddp from the EVO using EVODemux
2. Convert the ddp to a 6 channel wav using eac3to (converts to raw first)
3. Convert that wav to 6 mono wavs using tranzcode (also tried using eac3to to create an ac3 and then use BeSweet to split it up)
4. Encode the mono wavs in WME

The vid and audio files report the same length of 2:20:02 but I dont think it is off by a whole second so thats not surprising. Since using tranzcode and BeSweet produced the same result, it would seem this is happening during the EVODemux process or the eac3to process either when converting to or from RAW.

Any other methods I should try? This is driving me crazy! :eek:

Have you created a graph file for the audio and then from WMP run an AVS file with both audio and video and see if there is the synch issue. If the audio isn't out of synch then I would conclude that it isn't the Demuxed file.

[ACrowley]

Yes, sometimes the encoded wma is async around 1000ms

I have it to sometimes on WVC1/WMA HDDVD encodes

But its no Problem. Just use Delacut tool on the Source wave and set the delay.

[homerpez]

I have been trying without success to get Batman Begins converted to wmv for the 360... I was able to get the video encoded just fine using EVOdemux to extract the VC-1, construct a graph (Filesource Async > Sonic HD Demuxer > Sonic Decoder 4.2), and use wmcmd.vbs

The audio seems to convert just fine but like so many others, the audio gradually falls out of sync ahead of the video as if the duration of the audio is actually less than the video.

The method I used on the audio was:

1. Extract ddp from the EVO using EVODemux
2. Convert the ddp to a 6 channel wav using eac3to (converts to raw first)
3. Convert that wav to 6 mono wavs using tranzcode (also tried using eac3to to create an ac3 and then use BeSweet to split it up)
4. Encode the mono wavs in WME

The vid and audio files report the same length of 2:20:02 but I dont think it is off by a whole second so thats not surprising. Since using tranzcode and BeSweet produced the same result, it would seem this is happening during the EVODemux process or the eac3to process either when converting to or from RAW.

Any other methods I should try? This is driving me crazy! :eek:

Same here.. happened to me with Superman (the 1970's one) :p

Just so gurus understand, it's a PROGRESSIVE sync problem, not a delay... as in, it gets more and more out of sync as the movie is played... in my case it's up to several seconds!

One solution offered was to note the "counted" vs. the "calculated" frames in EVO Demux (allowing the entire file to be read, not just the first 300MB). The story is, if you find the two frame values different, you have to "timestretch" in something like BeHappy to get "counted" closer to "calculated".

In my case:

"Calculated" frames = 217843

"Counted" frames= 217937

This means although the timecodes for the audio and video are the same, somehow an extra few seconds are added to the audio... somehow. ???

So the ratio used in "Timestretch -> Frame based" would be something like 21.7843 -> 21.7931 (remember, it's a ratio, not actual framerate). The theory is once the audio is squeezed back to the size of your video, the movie should be in sync (or you only should have to worry about a simple delay at that point).

I've done this but I don't yet know the results. I'm also just encoding for the PC using H264 and ac3, I'd love to make fully XBOX and Media Center compliant WMV HD files, with 5.1 audio, but I can't find a single guide for it which 10 people afterwards say "it doesn't work". :p But when there is one, I'd love to do it.

Just one "Sticky" step-by-step guide for all-purpose "HD-DVD to WMV HD with 5.1 Guide, here's how"... that would be nice. :cool:

[bluesk1d]

Yes, sometimes the encoded wma is async around 1000ms

I have it to sometimes on WVC1/WMA HDDVD encodes

But its no Problem. Just use Delacut tool on the Source wave and set the delay.

Thanks I will try that for the delay. Do you use it on the 5.1 channel wav from eac3to or on all 6 mono wavs?

Also, can anyone make sense of this? Why are my encodes always smaller than expected using CBR? It shows the expected bitrate but the actual average bitrate is much lower, resulting in a smaller file. Argh!

cscript.exe "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder\WMCmd.vbs" -input "C:\dvd-temp\Encode staging\Staging\THE_DEPARTED_HDDVD\departed.avs" -output "C:\dvd-temp\Encode staging\Staging\THE_DEPARTED_HDDVD\departed-evo.wmv" -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 6614153 -v_keydist 30 -v_buffer 60000 -v_quality 100
Microsoft (R) Windows Script Host Version 5.6
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 1996-2001. All rights reserved.

Microsoft (R) Windows Media Encoder Command Line Script Utility
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Warning: Encoder failed to retrieve duration attribute from source plug-in.
Trying alternate method now............................
Source duration retrieved: 9079.043 seconds.

Encoded: 9079s (100%) Elapsed: 10:06:12 Left: 00:00:00 [0.25x]

======== Encoding Completed ========

Video :
Codec: Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile
Expected bit rate: 6614153 bps
Average bit rate: 5259617 bps
Expected fps: 23.976
Dropped frame count: 0
Total coded frames: 217679
Average sample rate: 23.952
Dropped bytes: 0 bytes
Total bytes: 5969012828 bytes

Overall:
Encoding time: 36402 seconds
Average bit rate: 5259617 bps
File size: 5997395900 bytes
File duration: 9079.034 seconds

[zambelli]

Just so gurus understand, it's a PROGRESSIVE sync problem, not a delay... as in, it gets more and more out of sync as the movie is played... in my case it's up to several seconds!
I think this could be an issue in the DD+ decoding phase or the EVO parsing phase. If you feed the WM encoder uncompressed video and uncompressed audio as sources - this will never happen, so I'm quite sure this is not an encoding issue. I have done many WMV9 encodes over the years - and I've never run into AV sync issues unless they were already present in the source.

Also, can anyone make sense of this? Why are my encodes always smaller than expected using CBR? It shows the expected bitrate but the actual average bitrate is much lower, resulting in a smaller file. Argh!
How is the quality of the resulting encode? The WMV9 codec doesn't pad bits so sometimes the bitrate will turn out smaller than the target if the video was not complex enough to require such a high bitrate. Are you using the WMP11 version of the codec (not the beta)? Some people have reported this before but I haven't been able to repro the issue yet.

[bluesk1d]

I think this could be an issue in the DD+ decoding phase or the EVO parsing phase. If you feed the WM encoder uncompressed video and uncompressed audio as sources - this will never happen, so I'm quite sure this is not an encoding issue. I have done many WMV9 encodes over the years - and I've never run into AV sync issues unless they were already present in the source.

I found mention in another thread about the culprit here not actually being the audio. It seems it is Sonic Video Decoder 4.2 that causes this and they are not sure why. It would appear it is an improper handling of the 23.976 frame rate but does not affect all movies. In the few tests I've done, that seems correct. If I use Haali Media Splitter to create a graph with the ripped EVO and use WMV DMO decoder, it seems to work just fine.


How is the quality of the resulting encode? The WMV9 codec doesn't pad bits so sometimes the bitrate will turn out smaller than the target if the video was not complex enough to require such a high bitrate. Are you using the WMP11 version of the codec (not the beta)? Some people have reported this before but I haven't been able to repro the issue yet.


The quality seems to be OK but Im sure it could have use some more file size. Heck look at the one on the HD DVD disc. That is an excellent question about which codec I am using... I am not sure. I had the beta before I installed WMP 11 (I think that was the order). How can I tell? Have people reported this problem with the WMP 11 version or the beta version available on MS.com? I can always uninstall the beta since it does appear in add/remove programs.

P.S.
I will be up in your neck of the woods, B-Town, Washington this Thurs to visit my sister and go to a wedding on Monday. Great city! Im from Seattle originally.

[zambelli]

That is an excellent question about which codec I am using... I am not sure. I had the beta before I installed WMP 11 (I think that was the order). How can I tell? Have people reported this problem with the WMP 11 version or the beta version available on MS.com? I can always uninstall the beta since it does appear in add/remove programs.
Launch WMV PowerToy and look at the About tab. It will list the registered WMV9 encoders. wmvencod.dll would indicate v11 final. wvc1dmoe.dll would indicate beta.

[homerpez]

I found mention in another thread about the culprit here not actually being the audio. It seems it is Sonic Video Decoder 4.2 that causes this and they are not sure why. It would appear it is an improper handling of the 23.976 frame rate but does not affect all movies. In the few tests I've done, that seems correct. If I use Haali Media Splitter to create a graph with the ripped EVO and use WMV DMO decoder, it seems to work just fine.

Hmm... this is interesting...

So Instead of:

file(async) "movie.vc1" -> Sonic HD Demux -> Sonic Video 4.2

I would instead use:

file(async) "movie1.evo" -> Haali Media Splitter -> ffdshow?

I had one sucess, and I think this may have been what I used... if so, thanks for the reminder. :thanks: I know since then, I tried using two demuxed streams, since I saw others doing so and thought it was the way to go...

I think Haali chokes on the .vc1 stream by itself... but the .evo might be something else... hmm... it'd be something if this solved everything.

I will have to try this again...

[bluesk1d]

Hmm... this is interesting...

So Instead of:

file(async) "movie.vc1" -> Sonic HD Demux -> Sonic Video 4.2

I would instead use:

file(async) "movie1.evo" -> Haali Media Splitter -> ffdshow?

I had one sucess, and I think this may have been what I used... if so, thanks for the reminder. :thanks: I know since then, I tried using two demuxed streams, since I saw others doing so and thought it was the way to go...

I think Haali chokes on the .vc1 stream by itself... but the .evo might be something else... hmm... it'd be something if this solved everything.

I will have to try this again...

Actually you dont use filesource. The haali splitter asks you what media file you want it to load when you insert the filter so its really just those two. Haali and the WMV DMO Decoder (the green one near the bottom). Since a lot of movies have the EVOs split into 2 parts you will need to creat a graph for each and combine them in your avs script.

DirectShowSource(blah1.grf, options)+DirectShowSource(blah2.grf, options)

Each source within its parenthesis will have to have its individual framecount. You can get that from EVOdemux by unchecking the proceed to next evo box and then loading them individually to see the calculated frames. I had a hell of a time with Batman Begins pulling my hair out over this thinking it was something with the audio but this method worked perfectly. Now I use this exclusively to avoid the random sync issues whenever possible.

[dbling]

Actually you dont use filesource. The haali splitter asks you what media file you want it to load when you insert the filter so its really just those two. Haali and the WMV DMO Decoder (the green one near the bottom). Since a lot of movies have the EVOs split into 2 parts you will need to creat a graph for each and combine them in your avs script.

DirectShowSource(blah1.grf, options)+DirectShowSource(blah2.grf, options)

Each source within its parenthesis will have to have its individual framecount. You can get that from EVOdemux by unchecking the proceed to next evo box and then loading them individually to see the calculated frames. I had a hell of a time with Batman Begins pulling my hair out over this thinking it was something with the audio but this method worked perfectly. Now I use this exclusively to avoid the random sync issues whenever possible.

WooHoo! My first post. That was a long 5 days. My question is after encoding waterworld hd-dvd to wmvhd, the audio is almost spot on in 98% of the movie and when its off, its very minimal, so I thought I would try this method. When doing it this way, using an evo through Haali and then through WMV DMO, there is no progress report, just tons of dots slowly filling the window.

Is there a way to, or are you getting, an accurate encoding report (frames done, percent done, encoding rate, etc) and if so, how? THanks

-D

[bluesk1d]

WooHoo! My first post. That was a long 5 days. My question is after encoding waterworld hd-dvd to wmvhd, the audio is almost spot on in 98% of the movie and when its off, its very minimal, so I thought I would try this method. When doing it this way, using an evo through Haali and then through WMV DMO, there is no progress report, just tons of dots slowly filling the window.

Is there a way to, or are you getting, an accurate encoding report (frames done, percent done, encoding rate, etc) and if so, how? THanks

-D

Some of the gurus may have a better answer but the only way I have gotten it to show the progress (even if it doesn't show, its still working if the file size is increasing) is to ensure the encoder is receiving an RGB input by adding "converttorgb()" at the end of your avs file. While the best practice is to do the least amount of processing that gets your objective done, I have not noticed any perceptible change in quality as this does not resample the image. It just changes the colorspace.

[dbling]

Some of the gurus may have a better answer but the only way I have gotten it to show the progress (even if it doesn't show, its still working if the file size is increasing) is to ensure the encoder is receiving an RGB input by adding "converttorgb()" at the end of your avs file. While the best practice is to do the least amount of processing that gets your objective done, I have not noticed any perceptible change in quality as this does not resample the image. It just changes the colorspace.

Thanks for the info. That worked splendidly. Source duration/time left/etc is now showing up fine. One other quick question. After encoding and playing back, it seems that the chapter skip function goes ahead by 30 seconds. I noticed that this was the same as the key frame distribution in the script setup command line that i was using. But, when I change it to say, 180, it still only skips 30 seconds at a time. I have also edited the markers after the file is completely done to no avail. Is there a way to make chapter markers at every 5 minutes or so rather than 30 seconds. Ive seen it done with other encodes floating around, but inspecting those files yielded no good results. Thanks for your help.

-D

[homerpez]

Actually you dont use filesource. The haali splitter asks you what media file you want it to load when you insert the filter so its really just those two. Haali and the WMV DMO Decoder (the green one near the bottom). Since a lot of movies have the EVOs split into 2 parts you will need to creat a graph for each and combine them in your avs script.

DirectShowSource(blah1.grf, options)+DirectShowSource(blah2.grf, options)

Each source within its parenthesis will have to have its individual framecount. You can get that from EVOdemux by unchecking the proceed to next evo box and then loading them individually to see the calculated frames. I had a hell of a time with Batman Begins pulling my hair out over this thinking it was something with the audio but this method worked perfectly. Now I use this exclusively to avoid the random sync issues whenever possible.

Hmm... well... I did use filesource -> Haali Splitter -> ffdshow, and what do you know, it worked PERFECTLY. PERFECTLY! :)

This was on "Bourne Supremacy"... it was a combined .evo ("rebuild" in EVO Demux), and I was even able to use the "1001ms" delay reading found in the info window to resync it on muxing.

This is the "Holy Grail" for me and backing up my discs, seriously. Thanks for the pointer!

[zambelli]

Some of the gurus may have a better answer but the only way I have gotten it to show the progress (even if it doesn't show, its still working if the file size is increasing) is to ensure the encoder is receiving an RGB input by adding "converttorgb()" at the end of your avs file. While the best practice is to do the least amount of processing that gets your objective done, I have not noticed any perceptible change in quality as this does not resample the image. It just changes the colorspace.
It "just" changes the colorspace? :confused: Converting back and forth between RGB and YUV is not lossless. If you output RGB to the encoder, the encoder needs to convert the RGB back to YUV *again* because internally all MPEG/VC-1 codecs work in YUV 4:2:0 colorspace. So you've successfully introduced an unnecessary lossy conversion into the process.

If you're not getting the encoding duration/progress when the Avisynth script is returning YV12, it's likely because you don't have a codec installed to handle raw YV12 interpreting. Try playing a YV12 Avisynth script in WMP or GraphEdit. Does it play? I'm betting not.

To solve the issue just set Ffdshow VfW decoder to handle "Raw video" = YV12 in the codecs list.

[zambelli]

Thanks for the info. That worked splendidly. Source duration/time left/etc is now showing up fine. One other quick question. After encoding and playing back, it seems that the chapter skip function goes ahead by 30 seconds. I noticed that this was the same as the key frame distribution in the script setup command line that i was using. But, when I change it to say, 180, it still only skips 30 seconds at a time. I have also edited the markers after the file is completely done to no avail. Is there a way to make chapter markers at every 5 minutes or so rather than 30 seconds. Ive seen it done with other encodes floating around, but inspecting those files yielded no good results. Thanks for your help.
Chapter marks and key frames aren't the same thing. Key frames, also known as "I frames", are frames that are encoded independently of all the surrounding frames. This is known as "intraframe" encoding.

I frames are typically inserted at scene changes, so sometimes even if you set the maximum key frame distance to i.e. 180 seconds, it's unlikely the video will go that long without a scene change - and consequently an I frame.

If you really want to insert chapter marks into the WMV file, you can use the WM File Editor to do that. The chapter marks (known as "file markers") will then show up in WMP under the View menu.

[bluesk1d]

It "just" changes the colorspace? :confused: Converting back and forth between RGB and YUV is not lossless. If you output RGB to the encoder, the encoder needs to convert the RGB back to YUV *again* because internally all MPEG/VC-1 codecs work in YUV 4:2:0 colorspace. So you've successfully introduced an unnecessary lossy conversion into the process.

If you're not getting the encoding duration/progress when the Avisynth script is returning YV12, it's likely because you don't have a codec installed to handle raw YV12 interpreting. Try playing a YV12 Avisynth script in WMP or GraphEdit. Does it play? I'm betting not.

To solve the issue just set Ffdshow VfW decoder to handle "Raw video" = YV12 in the codecs list.

I didnt claim it was lossless which is why I said it is best practice to do the least amount of processing but I have not been able to detect any degradation (and I looked pretty closely). If I could make it work without doing that I'd love to though. YV12 inputs do play on my system so I'm not sure what the deal is. In your suggestion, how does changing that ffdshow setting help when ffdshow is not involved? Also, where exactly is that change made? I am not in front of my home computer right now so I cant poke around to see what you mean.

[dbling]

I didnt claim it was lossless which is why I said it is best practice to do the least amount of processing but I have not been able to detect any degradation (and I looked pretty closely). If I could make it work without doing that I'd love to though. YV12 inputs do play on my system so I'm not sure what the deal is. In your suggestion, how does changing that ffdshow setting help when ffdshow is not involved? Also, where exactly is that change made? I am not in front of my home computer right now so I cant poke around to see what you mean.

Somehow it does. I had ffdshow installed upon the recommendation but thought I would uninstall and re-install to see if it made a difference. Upon reinstalling i selected for it to decode the raw video and then took the convert line out of my avs file and started an encode. Took a few seconds and then the progress showed up. I guess my old version of ffd wasnt getting the job done, but the newer one I installed does.

It will give you a list of video formats to decode when you are installing it. I believe there is a menu to change settings once it is installed as well. The newer version i installed was named ffdshow_rev457_20061027_clsid

[bluesk1d]

Is it in the start menu config options for ffdshow to avoid having to re-install? Itll be cool to be able to simplify the process. The multi-conversions always bugged me. You can always count on Zam for tips.

[dbling]

Is it in the start menu config options for ffdshow to avoid having to re-install? Itll be cool to be able to simplify the process. The multi-conversions always bugged me. You can always count on Zam for tips.

I think it depends on the version. I initially had a fairly old version that I couldnt find a way to change the settings for it, even upon re-install. Then I installed the version name of the one i posted earlier and immediately it was offering more choices for decoding.

[bluesk1d]

Does yours open like 5 instances of Haali in the sys tray when you start your encode like mine does? Doesnt seem to hinder anything but I was like "What the...?"

[zambelli]

1. You can change ffdshow options after you install it. Look into your ffdshow start menu folder.

2. You only need to set the VfW decoder raw video codec option to YV12. This will ensure Ffdshow gets used for YV12 decoding only if it absolutely has to.

3. There are more recent ffdshow versions than 2006. Visit http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net.

[dbling]

Does yours open like 5 instances of Haali in the sys tray when you start your encode like mine does? Doesnt seem to hinder anything but I was like "What the...?"

Mine typically opens 3 or 4, but i think its because they are trying/or are, initializing because if i move my mouse over some of them, all but one disappear. Ive Been trying a 2 pass CBR encode. I wonder what the difference between it and 1 pass will be. Checking a small clip of it, it looks about the same. I hope this (your) method fixes the very tiny delay in audio that was produced from the sonic decoder method.

[zambelli]

2-pass CBR simply has better rate control. 1-pass CBR can only look ahead as far as the buffer - and even then it can run into trouble and lower quality or drop frames.

Unless CBR is absolutely necessary, I would recommend 2-pass peak constrained VBR mode for Xbox encodes. The new dash update should allow smooth playback of HD-DVD range bitrates (up to 30 Mbps), so with a reasonably sized buffer - 2-pass VBR should be OK.

[sonicbox]

zambelli, I'm getting poor Xbox 360 playback on some of my WMV9 encodes. (Stutters, audio dropout, etc.) I never exceed 10 second buffers -- I generally stick to the default of 5. This is with, for example.... 5000 average, 7000 Kbps peak 2-pass VBR... 24 or 30 fps 720p content.

If I stick to CBR (and even higher bitates!), all seems to be fine. I'm a bit confused.

Is there a specific "Advanced Setting" that may crush the performance of the updated Xbox 360 WMV decoder with VBR content? Should I attempt to increase or decrease the buffers?

Anyway, I need to do some more testing in different scenarios when I have time.

[veffremov]

Yes, there is an "Advanced Setting" that crushes performance. Don't select "Complex Profile"

[zambelli]

Enabling Loopfilter might impose a slight decoding peformance overhead, but it's typically not more than 5%.

Can you share your encoding settings with us?

[dbling]

Is it possible at this stage in the game to add a track for subtitles that can be turned on or off and not just permanently on or permanently off? I see that EvoDemux can rip the subtitle track but ive not seen any mention of re-including it back into the final wmv stream. :thanks:

[DMagic1]

When encoding WMV HD for use on 360 whats the best frame rate. I've been using 23.98 but is it better to use 25?

Whats the benefit to either?

[zambelli]

When encoding WMV HD for use on 360 whats the best frame rate. I've been using 23.98 but is it better to use 25? Whats the benefit to either?
Whatever the source was shot on. You can't just arbitrarily encode at any framerate. Unless you're doing standards conversion for whatever reason, you should always match the framerate of your source when encoding.

[DMagic1]

Thanks

[Prophecy650]

how the F*CK do you use graph edit. I am very new to this and looked online but can't figure it out. I have a .evo file to test out. Can someone help me out.

[bluesk1d]

Launch WMV PowerToy and look at the About tab. It will list the registered WMV9 encoders. wmvencod.dll would indicate v11 final. wvc1dmoe.dll would indicate beta.

wmvencod.dll is the only one present on my system. This is getting pretty annoying as I am trying to max out DVD9 discs with my encodes to get the most out of the available space. The latest was The Italian Job... Expected and average bit rates are WAY different. File size is off by like 2GB. Gah!

cscript.exe "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder\WMCmd.vbs" -input "C:\input.avs" -output "C:\output.wmv" -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 0 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 9378984 -v_keydist 30 -v_buffer 60000 -v_quality 100

Source duration retrieved: 6632.094 seconds.

Encoded: 6632s (100%) Elapsed: 08:42:50 Left: 00:00:00 [0.21x]

======== Encoding Completed ========

Video :
Codec: Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile
Expected bit rate: 9378984 bps
Average bit rate: 7644828 bps
Expected fps: 23.976
Dropped frame count: 0
Total coded frames: 159011
Average sample rate: 23.952
Dropped bytes: 0 bytes
Total bytes: 6337616750 bytes

Overall:
Encoding time: 31383 seconds
Average bit rate: 7644828 bps
File size: 6366309218 bytes
File duration: 6632.086 seconds

Anyone have any ideas?

[dbling]

wmvencod.dll is the only one present on my system. This is getting pretty annoying as I am trying to max out DVD9 discs with my encodes to get the most out of the available space. The latest was The Italian Job... Expected and average bit rates are WAY different. File size is off by like 2GB. Gah!



Anyone have any ideas?

I have one. It MIGHT be the same issue i was having with happy feet. The entire movie was only like 10 gigs at 1080p. When i reconverted to 720p, it was only using about 5.2 gigs but the encoder was spitting out the same kind of info that yours is and I was expecting a CBR bitrate of ~9500 but it was ending with around 7.3. I encoded it several times before realizing this. The movie wasnt long enough/big enough to output the size i wanted with my settings. So you might want to check that the video stream is big enough to maintain the bitrate that you want it to. Just an idea.

-D

[NHRaider]

how the F*CK do you use graph edit. I am very new to this and looked online but can't figure it out. I have a .evo file to test out. Can someone help me out.

Search is your friend...http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123010

Oliver created a great guide to help you out. This was the first thread I read and now I'm addicted to this crap....that bastid...

[bluesk1d]

I have one. It MIGHT be the same issue i was having with happy feet. The entire movie was only like 10 gigs at 1080p. When i reconverted to 720p, it was only using about 5.2 gigs but the encoder was spitting out the same kind of info that yours is and I was expecting a CBR bitrate of ~9500 but it was ending with around 7.3. I encoded it several times before realizing this. The movie wasnt long enough/big enough to output the size i wanted with my settings. So you might want to check that the video stream is big enough to maintain the bitrate that you want it to. Just an idea.

-D

Thanks for the suggestion here. I am pretty sure the encoder has no idea what the source file size is/was. It just receives raw video frames from AviSynth and should encode it at the bit rate you tell it to. Something is acting funky here. I might just start a new thread on it.

[bluesk1d]

Is it possible at this stage in the game to add a track for subtitles that can be turned on or off and not just permanently on or permanently off? I see that EvoDemux can rip the subtitle track but ive not seen any mention of re-including it back into the final wmv stream. :thanks:

Did you ever find any info on this? Im in the same boat. I started a thread here.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=126200

[dbling]

Ive gotten the hang of converting HD-DVDs to wmvhd down, but does anyone know of a similar method for doing bluray movies or could point to another forum thread that does? I know this is a thread for hddvd, but havent seen anything similar for the bluguys. THanks

-D

[bluesk1d]

@ACrowley

You use Sonic Video Decoder 4.2 a lot so maybe you have seen this... I got a new machine and after installing XP and all the goodies, Sonic 4.2 will not attach to anything in a graph. Before I would connect the demuxed VC-1 stream to the Sonic HD Demuxer and then Sonic Vid Decoder 4.2. Now it will not connect to the HD demuxer. It also wont connect to Elecard demuxer. In fact, I cant get Sonic to connect to anything in Graph edit. There must be some component that was on my old machine that isnt on my new one... Any ideas?

[diogen]

...It just receives raw video frames from AviSynth and should encode it at the bit rate you tell it to.That is not how it works.
It will use the specs of the encode you requested using bitrate up to the max specified.
If it can get away with less, it will.

Same applies to framerate. From WME9 help:
"Depending on factors such as the video size and codec quality setting, the actual fps you achieve might be lower."

Diogen.

EDIT: Looking at your script, you used 100% quality and encoded a ~2h movie in 10 hours? What are your PC's specs?

[bluesk1d]

That is not how it works.
It will use the specs of the encode you requested using bitrate up to the max specified.
If it can get away with less, it will.

Thanks for the info. It just seems hard to believe it would think it could get away with an average bit rate of roughly half of what I define in a CBR 100% quality encode (not the one noted in the example). That would mean if I changed the BR to something crazy like 50Mb/sec and did another encode the average BR would still be more or less the same since it doesn't think it needs any more (aside from spikes)? Weird.

EDIT: Looking at your script, you used 100% quality and encoded a ~2h movie in 10 hours? What are your PC's specs?

Its a Core 2 Duo E6600 running at 3.0GHz w/2GB Geil DDR-800 running at 833MHz under XP.

[diogen]

...That would mean if I changed the BR to something crazy like 50Mb/sec and did another encode the average BR would still be more or less the same since it doesn't think it needs any more (aside from spikes)? Weird.I think so.

In general, re-encoding VC-1 into VC-1 (with different specs) from my experience is not the same as encoding MPEG-2 HD into VC-1. And even that can be unpredictable: a recent CBR encoding of Alien-2 DVD (~9Mbps original into 2.5Mbps VC-1) produced a result of under 2Mbps.

Try doing a 2-pass encode. I think the results will be different.
The original VC-1 stream is certainly not 1-pass CBR.

Diogen.

[diogen]

...Its a Core 2 Duo E6600 running at 3.0GHz w/2GB Geil DDR-800 running at 833MHz under XP.When encoding satellite MPEG-2 HD streams (~12Mbps) with 40% quality at ~6Mbps on a 6420 @ 2.5GHz and stock RAM, it takes 12-15X the movie length (2-pass VBR) and 7-8X 1-pass CBR.

Diogen.

[NHRaider]

When encoding satellite MPEG-2 HD streams (~12Mbps) with 40% quality at ~6Mbps on a 6420 @ 2.5GHz and stock RAM, it takes 12-15X the movie length (2-pass VBR) and 7-8X 1-pass CBR.

Diogen.


I was hoping to find someone with similar specs to see what the performance was like. I have a Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 (2@2.93GHz) with 4 GB.... I encode video only at 14Mbps and 75% quality and it takes me 8.33x movie length for 1-pass CBR.

[diogen]

It is not the same factor for different movies: Casino Royale for example used about 15% more time (per movie minute) than Mission Impossible 3 and/or The Queen.
And adding filtering and increasing -v_quality can easily double this time.

Diogen.

[bluesk1d]

I was hoping to find someone with similar specs to see what the performance was like. I have a Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 (2@2.93GHz) with 4 GB.... I encode video only at 14Mbps and 75% quality and it takes me 8.33x movie length for 1-pass CBR.

To put it in your context. Most of my 100% quality encodes between 7 and 9Mbps run at around .2x to .25x so roughly 4-5x the movie length. On occasion I will start 2 at a time before bed and they will both be done a couple hours before I get home from work the following day. Have to put that machine to work while I work :p

[borley1863]

The reason i ask is that i have some WMVHD files which i can play in the game drive as video but i don`t like the player especialy trying to rewind!
So is it possible to make the discs into HDDVD discs without converting the file? As i know you can buy feature films in WMVHD but i`m not sure how they work do they just play on pc`s like a data file or do they boot like a HDDVD?
I`m not to clued up with the structure of HDDVD`s i have burnt many DVD`s in my time, i take it it has some folder structure but i just don`t understand the 2 formats seem completely different(Avi and Mpeg)
Thanks in advance
Borley

[bluesk1d]

The reason i ask is that i have some WMVHD files which i can play in the game drive as video but i don`t like the player especialy trying to rewind!
So is it possible to make the discs into HDDVD discs without converting the file? As i know you can buy feature films in WMVHD but i`m not sure how they work do they just play on pc`s like a data file or do they boot like a HDDVD?
I`m not to clued up with the structure of HDDVD`s i have burnt many DVD`s in my time, i take it it has some folder structure but i just don`t understand the 2 formats seem completely different(Avi and Mpeg)
Thanks in advance
Borley

If I understand your question... You should not have to purchase the add on drive as the only reason for that is to have the actual hardware capable of reading an HD DVD disc since it is physically different than a DVD. It does not have some kind of associated special player with more functionality. WMVHD discs are on regular DVD media so they should read in the 360's regular drive. Whether or not the 360 dashboard supports the WMVHD menu system and such is unknown to me (I would be pretty surprised if it did not). Make sure you have the latest dashboard (Week of May 7th, 2007) as it provides some improvements to the dashboard media player with regard to seeking through files.

[zambelli]

As i know you can buy feature films in WMVHD but i`m not sure how they work do they just play on pc`s like a data file or do they boot like a HDDVD?
WMV-HD branded discs are intended for Windows PC playback only. They were not designed for Xbox playback.

[zambelli]

That is not how it works.
It will use the specs of the encode you requested using bitrate up to the max specified.
If it can get away with less, it will.
That's correct. WMV9 codec does not pad bits in CBR mode.

In my experience the usual causes of encoded bitrate being lower than target bitrate in CBR mode are:
1) The target bitrate was too high for the width*height*fps and complexity of the source, so the encoder didn't use all the bits you asked it to use.
2) There were many repeated identical frames in the source, such as in 3:2 pulldown patterns which haven't been properly decimated.

@bluesk1d: You should check whether your .avs script is returning true 23.976 fps or maybe it's actually serving 29.97 fps with repeat frames.

increasing -v_quality can easily double this time.
Unlikely.

Here's the scoop on v_quality and CBR:

In CBR mode v_quality controls the tradeoff between crispness and smoothness. A crisp video might have sharp looking frames but lack motion smoothness due to dropped frames. A smooth video has all the frames but some might look very bad.

Under the covers, what v_quality truly does is control the minimum and maximum QP used by the CBR ratecontrol. Q=90 and higher sets the MINimum QP to 1, while lower values set the minimum QP to 2. The MAXimum QP is set somewhere between 15 and 30 depending the v_quality value. For example, Q0 would translate to a QP 2..30 range, while Q100 would translate to a QP 1..14 range.

How does that relate to crispness/smoothness then? The primary goal of CBR ratecontrol is to ensure the video buffer doesn't overflow. When the buffer is nearly full the ratecontrol responds by raising the QP for the current frame. If the v_quality is set too high and the maximum QP has already been reached, the ratecontrol has no choice but to drop the frame altogether because it simply can't encode it without overflowing the buffer. Lower v_quality values simply tell the encoder to keep raising the QP further until the compressed frame is small enough to fit into the buffer.

So what's the ideal v_quality value? The highest you can get away with without having dropped frames. If you want to make sure QP=1 gets used, then you gotta make sure you use above Q90. Otherwise, just pick a value and try it. As long as you don't get dropped frames, you've made the right choice. I often encode at Q50 just because I know it's unlikely to give me dropped frames, while at the same time it won't go past QP=22 or so in its ratecontrol.

Explanation for those unfamiliar with "QP": QP is Picture Quantizer, a unit of measuring the compression ratio of a frame. In VC-1 the QP range is 1..31, with 1 having the best quality and smallest compression ration, and 31 having the worst quality and highest compression ratio. If you're familiar with JPEG compression ratios, QP ought to make sense.

Remember: in video encoding CBR is really only just VBR with less bitrate oscillation and less knowledge of things to come.

[bluesk1d]

@bluesk1d: You should check whether your .avs script is returning true 23.976 fps or maybe it's actually serving 29.97 fps with repeat frames.

How do you check that? If it is just a matter of the frame rate setting in the DirectShowSource line options, it is always set to 23.976 as I use a template AVS for all my encodes. It seems to respond as expected if I increase or decrease the value. I found this out after some frustration I was having encoding a trailer. It took me a while to realize the reason for the audio synch problem was that it was a PAL source and needed to be set to 25fps (Doh!). Once I set the AVS to 25fps, it was fine.

EDIT: Nevermined. I just saw your other post about making an uncompressed AVI to check for duped frames and such. Ill respond there.

[diogen]

And adding filtering and increasing -v_quality can easily double this time.Unlikely.I thought v_quality is the same as the slider in Tools->Options->Performance. This slider has dramatic effect on encoding times.
I keep it in the third position from left. Never set it as a parameter even when using AVS.

Diogen.

[benwaggoner]

I thought v_quality is the same as the slider in Tools->Options->Performance. This slider has dramatic effect on encoding times.
I keep it in the third position from left. Never set it as a parameter even when using AVS.

You're thinking of -v_performance.

Myself, I use second-last from the left, (aka 80 from WMCmd)

[diogen]

You're thinking of -v_performance.

Myself, I use second-last from the left, (aka 80 from WMCmd)And -v_quality doesn't have a corresponding slider?
Shouldn't those two be tightly related?
What happens if you request the highest possibe quality and performance?

Diogen.

EDIT: OK, I re-read zambelli's post above and think I know the answer:
I'll probably be left with 1 frame per second ;-)

[zambelli]

EDIT: OK, I re-read zambelli's post above and think I know the answer.
Sheesh, and I even used the big font and everything! :)

[whitey1977]

* All WMV files play beautifully on the PC.
*2 channel WMV files play beautifully on the Helios Media Player. (8Mb sample)
*5.1 WMV files have slow/choppy audio on the media player (10.8Mb Sample)

Accessing Media Center from XBOX360:
When I tried to play these WMV files on the Xbox360, after selecting the movie the screen displays "Finished" - with the options of restart, delete, or done. I can't even play the WMV-HD samples from Microsoft site.

I went back and kept the same Video with sampling at 10.8MB bit rate, and created another wma file by changing the audio from 768Kbps 6 channel 48KHz to 440Kbps 6 channel 48KHz and then muxed the movie back together... And the movie was able to play on the media player but still not on the XBOX360.

I further went back and kept the same Video with sampling at 10.8MB bit rate, and created another wma file by changing the audio from 440Kbps 6 channel 48KHz to 440Kbps 2 channel 48KHz and then muxed the movie back together... And the movie was able to play on the media player and on the XBOX360.

Any clue why these multi-channel audio files will not play and seem to finish immediately with the xbox360?

Also, any comment on why I can stream 440Kbps vs 768Kbps for the 5.1 audio?

Edit: I was having problems playing via Media Center...but accessing Media>Video>Computer>Zune, I had no issues with playing the 6 channel...so the problem was playing 6 channel is Media Center...

So..I still want to stream via my Helios Media player...My question is... Is the sampling of 768Kbps much different in quality than 448Kbps for 48KHz, 5.1channel??


Did you ever solve this problem? I have been using a similar process to convert H.244 .ts to wmv for xbox playback. The videos play fine without audio muxed in or 2 channel sound but fail with 5.1 sound

Thanks

Whitey

[bluesk1d]

Did you ever solve this problem? I have been using a similar process to convert H.244 .ts to wmv for xbox playback. The videos play fine without audio muxed in or 2 channel sound but fail with 5.1 sound

Thanks

Whitey

The 360 only supports 2 channel audio with MPEG-4 at this time. If you want 6 channel audio, you are forced to use Windows Media.

[whitey1977]

The 360 only supports 2 channel audio with MPEG-4 at this time. If you want 6 channel audio, you are forced to use Windows Media.

I'm using H.264 .ts as a source and converting to wmv

Whitey

[bluesk1d]

I'm using H.264 .ts as a source and converting to wmv

Whitey

Which WMA codec are you using? It can default to WMA 9 lossless in the GUI. The 360 doesn't like that. Choose WMA 10 Pro and pick one of the 5.1 bitrate settings.

[whitey1977]

Which WMA codec are you using? It can default to WMA 9 lossless in the GUI. The 360 doesn't like that. Choose WMA 10 Pro and pick one of the 5.1 bitrate settings.

Yes I'm using WMA Pro 10 codec. I have tried different bit rates, different resolutions all with the same result. Using the same settings but with 2 channels always works! The source is 384kps ac3 that I convert to 6 waves and then enode with wme.

Thanks

Whitey

[bluesk1d]

Yes I'm using WMA Pro 10 codec. I have tried different bit rates, different resolutions all with the same result. Using the same settings but with 2 channels always works! The source is 384kps ac3 that I convert to 6 waves and then enode with wme.

Thanks

Whitey

Hmmm... Thats pretty weird. I do the whole 6 waves bit as well. The bit rate shouldnt matter (the max of 768 works just fine on the 360). When you do 2 channels, is your process any different or do you still choose all 6 waves and then let WME downmix it? What do you use to go from DD to 6 waves? I know WME doesnt like 32 bit floating point waves but it will usually give you an error if you try to use one. If you would, could you briefly list your steps and programs used?

[whitey1977]

Hmmm... Thats pretty weird. I do the whole 6 waves bit as well. The bit rate shouldnt matter (the max of 768 works just fine on the 360). When you do 2 channels, is your process any different or do you still choose all 6 waves and then let WME downmix it? What do you use to go from DD to 6 waves? I know WME doesnt like 32 bit floating point waves but it will usually give you an error if you try to use one. If you would, could you briefly list your steps and programs used?

I allow WME to downmix it to 2 channels. BTW the file plays ok with WMP on a PC.Heres how I convert the audio.

1) Demux the .ts using Project X to get a .ac3
2) Convert to 6 waves using Besweet
3) Using WME, convert the 6 waves to wma 5.1
4) mux with the WMV using WM Stream editor

Thanks for the help

Whitey

[Celeritas]

Why would WVC1 movies play better through the MCE interface than they do through the dashboard? I am streaming video over an 802.11a network. I initially thought that my network connection was creating the stuttering of my videos. I tried all the different recommendations in this thread (CBR/VBR, long buffer/short buffer, 2,4,5mbps) and I could not make a file that would always play fine. I like the new dashboard interface because of the more robust "chapter skip". On a lark, I tried the MCE interface again. All of the test files that I created, regardless of size (highest bit rate was 5mbps), played just fine. Is there a different buffering system with the MCE vs the Dashboard? I am very confused. I even put one of the videos on a DVD (2mbps VBR) and saw some stuttering via the Xbox drive. I'm not using any odd parameters. Just those that have been discussed here. Any ideas?


John

[bluesk1d]

My process for AC3 is identical. The only thing I can think of is if it is not using WMA 10. If you open it in media player, right click on the file in the "Now playing" pane and choose properties, does it actually show "WMA 10 Pro 5.1" as the audio codec?

[bluesk1d]

Why would WVC1 movies play better through the MCE interface than they do through the dashboard? I am streaming video over an 802.11a network. I initially thought that my network connection was creating the stuttering of my videos. I tried all the different recommendations in this thread (CBR/VBR, long buffer/short buffer, 2,4,5mbps) and I could not make a file that would always play fine. I like the new dashboard interface because of the more robust "chapter skip". On a lark, I tried the MCE interface again. All of the test files that I created, regardless of size (highest bit rate was 5mbps), played just fine. Is there a different buffering system with the MCE vs the Dashboard? I am very confused. I even put one of the videos on a DVD (2mbps VBR) and saw some stuttering via the Xbox drive. I'm not using any odd parameters. Just those that have been discussed here. Any ideas?


John

I wish I had more info for you but I did recall seeing this exact issue discussed on the official Xbox forum on xbox.com. The thread seemed to suggest it was a result of the latest Dashboard update in May. I am noticing it only during streaming over the wireless adapter (it worked perfectly before with files upwards of 10Mb).

[whitey1977]

My process for AC3 is identical. The only thing I can think of is if it is not using WMA 10. If you open it in media player, right click on the file in the "Now playing" pane and choose properties, does it actually show "WMA 10 Pro 5.1" as the audio codec?

Yes it does

Whitey

[bluesk1d]

Yes it does

Whitey

Then its likely not a problem with the wmv file. The xbox 360 outputs any 5.1 source as dolby digital. Is your 360 configured to output audio as ac3 as well as attached to an ac3 capable receiver via an optical cable? Other than some kind of issue with the receiver setup you have me stumped!

[whitey1977]

Then its likely not a problem with the wmv file. The xbox 360 outputs any 5.1 source as dolby digital. Is your 360 configured to output audio as ac3 as well as attached to an ac3 capable receiver via an optical cable? Other than some kind of issue with the receiver setup you have me stumped!

Yes my set-up works fine with other wmv with 5.1 that I have not encoded from other sources. The reason I posted here was because one of the members of this thread said he had the same problem but didn't say if or how he managed to solve it.

Thanks for your help anyway!

Whitey

[bluesk1d]

Yes my set-up works fine with other wmv with 5.1 that I have not encoded from other sources. The reason I posted here was because one of the members of this thread said he had the same problem but didn't say if or how he managed to solve it.

Thanks for your help anyway!

Whitey

If you find out make sure you let us know. I'm curious now!

[NHRaider]

Yes my set-up works fine with other wmv with 5.1 that I have not encoded from other sources. The reason I posted here was because one of the members of this thread said he had the same problem but didn't say if or how he managed to solve it.

Thanks for your help anyway!

Whitey

Sorry for not replying earlier...I was following this thread along with HD-DVD to WMV since I stream my movies but primarily NOT on the XBOX360. I use a Helios X-5000 for streaming and was having a problem so I wanted to test the XBOX360 to see if it was file related...

Anyway, I did identify my problems...I couldn't stream the WMV files to the xbox360 using Media Center, but could with Video>computer>...

Second and primary issue was that the Helios player would choke on audio bitrates higher than 640kbps. Not sure why since it can play video up to 20Mbps!

Also I found out that a few parameters for wmcmd choked the helios as well...but again, not XBOX360 related.

[whitey1977]

Sorry for not replying earlier...I was following this thread along with HD-DVD to WMV since I stream my movies but primarily NOT on the XBOX360. I use a Helios X-5000 for streaming and was having a problem so I wanted to test the XBOX360 to see if it was file related...

Anyway, I did identify my problems...I couldn't stream the WMV files to the xbox360 using Media Center, but could with Video>computer>...

Second and primary issue was that the Helios player would choke on audio bitrates higher than 640kbps. Not sure why since it can play video up to 20Mbps!

Also I found out that a few parameters for wmcmd choked the helios as well...but again, not XBOX360 related.

Thanks for the reply.

So are you saying the WMV files would not play through the media center extender but would play through the dashboard? I haven't tried that but I have tried burning a WMV file to DVD and playing that and that didn't work either.

Whitey

[Celeritas]

I wish I had more info for you but I did recall seeing this exact issue discussed on the official Xbox forum on xbox.com. The thread seemed to suggest it was a result of the latest Dashboard update in May. I am noticing it only during streaming over the wireless adapter (it worked perfectly before with files upwards of 10Mb).

Knowing that it's not just me makes me feel better. I will just use the MCE interface for now. Perhaps in the future when I move to 802.11n, the extra bandwidth will solve this problem, or the next dashboard update. I can move forward with standardizing the way I create the wmv files now that I know it's not necessarily something I am doing wrong in my transcode. I think I'll go with 4mbps VBR, insane preset, 4 second keyframes, as I am just doing DVD's. If I move on to HD-DVD, I'll have to up the bitrate.

[NHRaider]

Thanks for the reply.

So are you saying the WMV files would not play through the media center extender but would play through the dashboard? I haven't tried that but I have tried burning a WMV file to DVD and playing that and that didn't work either.

Whitey

Yup...that was the problem...IN MCE I'd see the files...when I selected to play any of the movies, I would get the message that it was done and to select next action.

This was the case for even the WMV-HD samples from Microsoft's site.

I the went to the dash and tried via video > Computer and there was no issue.

[whitey1977]

Yup...that was the problem...IN MCE I'd see the files...when I selected to play any of the movies, I would get the message that it was done and to select next action.

This was the case for even the WMV-HD samples from Microsoft's site.

I the went to the dash and tried via video > Computer and there was no issue.

Thanks alot, that solved it! Stange that the MCE extender software is unable to play WMV that the dashboard can. Looks like with MCE it's a max of 720p video with 5.1 sound or 1080p with 2 channel sound.

Whitey

[mattbrown]

I wish some genius would create one program that would convert HD-DVDs to WMV. I give up on all these 20 step processes that don't work because I leave out a crucial detail that I don't know is crucial. Really, I would pay good money for such a program.

[morphx2]

Bump to the top.


So I am trying to convert 12 Monkeys HD-DVD to WMV. The audio is playing super early, maybe 1-2 seconds. I am not really sure of how early it goes. Is there a way to determine this without encoding over and over again? How would I change it?

It is really annoying :-\

On a side note, I can not open my audio file in virtualdub, keeps saying there is a problem with it in the line. Happens with all the movies I tried so far

Here is what I have for it:

video = import("c:\hd dvd\12monkeyvideo.avs")
audio = import("c:\hd dvd\audio.avi")
AudioDub(Video,Audio)




To make my audio, I do this

eac3to.exe "C:\Path to\Audio_Source.ddp" "C:\Path to\output.wav"
tranzcode.exe "C:\Path to\output.wav"
wavavimux -o audio.avi -iwav 6 output-FL.wav output-FR.wav output-C.wav output-LFE.wav output-SL.wav output-SR.wav -mask 63


My videoscript is this

DirectshowSource("c:\hd dvd\12monkeyvideo1.grf", audio=false, seek=true, fps=23.976, framecount=139800)+directshowsource("c:\hd dvd\12monkeyvideo2.grf", audio=false, seek=true, fps=23.976, framecount=46734)

my video graphs are

halli splitter connected to the windows DMO or something like that

Any ideas? :-\

[bluesk1d]

Bump to the top.


So I am trying to convert 12 Monkeys HD-DVD to WMV. The audio is playing super early, maybe 1-2 seconds. I am not really sure of how early it goes. Is there a way to determine this without encoding over and over again? How would I change it?

It is really annoying :-\

On a side note, I can not open my audio file in virtualdub, keeps saying there is a problem with it in the line. Happens with all the movies I tried so far

Here is what I have for it:

video = import("c:\hd dvd\12monkeyvideo.avs")
audio = import("c:\hd dvd\audio.avi")
AudioDub(Video,Audio)




To make my audio, I do this

eac3to.exe "C:\Path to\Audio_Source.ddp" "C:\Path to\output.wav"
tranzcode.exe "C:\Path to\output.wav"
wavavimux -o audio.avi -iwav 6 output-FL.wav output-FR.wav output-C.wav output-LFE.wav output-SL.wav output-SR.wav -mask 63


My videoscript is this

DirectshowSource("c:\hd dvd\12monkeyvideo1.grf", audio=false, seek=true, fps=23.976, framecount=139800)+directshowsource("c:\hd dvd\12monkeyvideo2.grf", audio=false, seek=true, fps=23.976, framecount=46734)

my video graphs are

halli splitter connected to the windows DMO or something like that

Any ideas? :-\

You need to view the evo properties in EVOdemux to determine what the audio delay is in milliseconds. After that, you can either open the giant wav file in something that can handle raw wavs like Adobe Audition or use tranzcode to generate your 6 wavs and then open each in something like audacity to add silence to the beginning (the duration of silence matches that of your delay value obtained from EVOdemux.

[morphx2]

What is the method for seeing the audio delay in evodemux?

[bluesk1d]

What is the method for seeing the audio delay in evodemux?

You just drag and drop the EVO into the EVOdemux window. All the details show up in the details pane. Youll see the delay (if there is any) displayed as "First PTS" or something like that under the audio stream.

[whiskey]

Here is a sample from one of my WVC1 720p encodes, looks very nice and plays perfect on Xbox360 via stream or Gamedrive
Its from Superman.Returns HDDVD VC1 :
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WL2GNL38

I've downloaded your sample via pc it plays great but when I've recorded it to blank dvd-rw and played on 360 it stopped after like 2-3 seconds giving me "unplayable content" error with status code :confused:

EDIT :
Although sample works fine steamed via Tversity, maybe it's a 360 fault since drive in that unit is very picky when it comes to media

[bluesk1d]

EDIT :
Although sample works fine steamed via Tversity, maybe it's a 360 fault since drive in that unit is very picky when it comes to media

I hear that. ACrowley and I both do all our encodes for playing back on the 360 and I do notice it is very picky with media. It may have just been a bad burn because I've never had it choke once it is able to mount the disc. I differ from him only in the sense that I switched to 2-pass VBR when necessary in order to keep all my content at 1080P while ensuring my backups are indistinguishable from the originals.

[morphx2]

So +4471ms is that it comes out too fast? Each evo is different delay. I read somewhere you have to subtract that delay from something else(the video pts?)..but not quite sure.

Is the method to do each evo seperately, fix the audio for each evo, then combine the 2 audio files together and combine the 2 evo's together, then do 1 big merge of video/audio?

The second evo has a +47721808ms for the audio. What do I do with that giant thing?

You just drag and drop the EVO into the EVOdemux window. All the details show up in the details pane. Youll see the delay (if there is any) displayed as "First PTS" or something like that under the audio stream.

[bluesk1d]

So +4471ms is that it comes out too fast? Each evo is different delay. I read somewhere you have to subtract that delay from something else(the video pts?)..but not quite sure.

Is the method to do each evo seperately, fix the audio for each evo, then combine the 2 audio files together and combine the 2 evo's together, then do 1 big merge of video/audio?

The second evo has a +47721808ms for the audio. What do I do with that giant thing?

So the delay in the first evo is 4.471 seconds. Im sure you already know this but you want to use Dolby Digital+ Stream 0. Yes, if the video also has a delay, then you would subtract that from this value (the only ones Ive ever seen that have a vid delay are HD DVDs with H.264 streams). You don't care about the delay value in the 2nd evo. When you use evodemux to extract the audio stream just make sure the "continue with 2nd evo" option is checked. This extracts the audio from both evos and combines them into one complete audio stream file which you then use eac3to to convert to wav.

[morphx2]

So disregard the 2nd evo audio delay? okie dokie. Should I cut each wav seperately (dividing it into 6 wav's for 5.1 sound), or just cut the 1 merged one?

I should rebuild the video together as well, not separetly?

[bluesk1d]

So disregard the 2nd evo audio delay? okie dokie. Should I cut each wav seperately (dividing it into 6 wav's for 5.1 sound), or just cut the 1 merged one?

I should rebuild the video together as well, not separetly?

You can either add 4.471 seconds of silence to the front of the giant wave produced by eac3to (with an editor capable of handling raw audio like Adobe Audition) or to each of the 6 wavs after you use tranzcode. It's up to you.

[jaihenwood]

I wish some genius would create one program that would convert HD-DVDs to WMV. I give up on all these 20 step processes that don't work because I leave out a crucial detail that I don't know is crucial. Really, I would pay good money for such a program.

I agree 100% i've read this forum for 6~ hours over the last few months and i still don't see a simple guide for how to convert HD-DVDs to WMV

is it really this hard to do?

[Inventive Software]

Yes. But you can lay the blame squarely and fairly on over-zealous studios and their paranoia with copy protection.

If it'd be simple to amalgamate all the steps into one program, it would have been done. Unfortunately, life isn't as simple as that. ;)

[jaihenwood]

There are a lot of question in this forum over a long period of time.

Could someone that is doing this well post how they are doing it?

There are a lot of conversion tools out there that work with different formats. What tools are best for Encode HD-DVD to WMV for 360 playback? calculating final size? shrinking from 1080 to 720?

step #1 - HD Dvd to hard drive - I used DVDFab HD Decrypter
step #2 - separate video and audio of evo files - EVOdemux 0.627 B7
steps #3-83 Coverting video and audio to VC1 WMV

This should help all newbies. Thanks for your reply!

[sparknburn]

How come Im only see my source as 10 secs? If I leave it alone it appears to be encoding the whole movie....

[rudster]

How come Im only see my source as 10 secs? If I leave it alone it appears to be encoding the whole movie....

I have a similar problem. I run my batch file, i get an error that says, "encoder failed to retrieve duration attribute from source plug-in." Then it says the movie's only 10 sec long and that's all it encodes.

I tried playing my video_only.avs on wmp and i get an error that says, "DirectShowSource: GRF file does not have a compatible open video pin. Graph must have 1 output pin that will bid RGB24, RGB32, ARGB, YUY2, or YV12." My GRF file goes like this: File (async)>Sonic HD Demuxer>Sonic Cinemaster DS Video Decoder. Is NE1 else having this problem? and how would I go around this and correct it? thanks.

[acribb]

I am in the middle of encoding and it is on the second pass. I went and took a peek and tried to play the video that has been created thus far in WMP and the video looked pixelated, blocky and had funky colors in spots. Is this normal and will this go away once the encode is finished? 27 hours to go....

Thanks for any input.

[acribb]

Ok, what is going on here? 37 hours and 20 minutes of encoding and I am getting pixelated, blocky video.

I have a P4 3.0ghz with 1.25gb RAM. Is this machine too slow?

Thanks for any tips.....

My command line, avs, and results -

rem Miami Vice HD-DVD
rem 190200 calculated frames in video stream 0.
cscript.exe "C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder\wmcmd.vbs" -input "G:\WMV-HD Encoding\encoding tools\video_only.avs" -output "H:\WMV-HD Encoding\miamivice.wmv" -v_codec WVC1 -videoonly -v_mode 4 -v_preset better -v_bitrate 8750000 -v_peakbitrate 12000000 -v_peakbuffer 10000 -v_mslevel 3 -v_mmatch 0 -log "H:\WMV-HD Encoding\log.txt"



Directshowsource("G:\WMV-HD Encoding\encoding tools\video_only.grf", fps=23.976, audio=false, seekzero=false, seek=true, framecount=190200)
spline36resize(1280,720)
ConverttoYV12()
Asharp(1,3)



Microsoft (R) Windows Media Encoder Command Line Script Utility
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Warning: Encoder failed to retrieve duration attribute from source plug-in.
Trying alternate method now...........
Source duration retrieved: 7932.938 seconds.

======== Begin Pass1 ========
Read: 7932.8s (100%) Elapsed: 08:52:38 Left: 00:00:00 [0.25x]

======== Begin Pass2 ========
Encoded: 7932.7s (100%) Elapsed: 28:27:10 Left: 00:00:03 [0.08x]

======== Encoding Completed ========

Video :
Codec: Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile
Expected bit rate: 8750000 bps
Average bit rate: 8612348 bps
Expected fps: 23.976
Dropped frame count: 0
Total coded frames: 190200
Average sample rate: 23.975
Dropped bytes: 0 bytes
Total bytes: 8540111699 bytes

Overall:
Encoding time: 134408 seconds
Average bit rate: 8612348 bps
File size: 8561156688 bytes
File duration: 7932.929 seconds

[ACrowley]

I have a similar problem. I run my batch file, i get an error that says, "encoder failed to retrieve duration attribute from source plug-in." Then it says the movie's only 10 sec long and that's all it encodes.

I tried playing my video_only.avs on wmp and i get an error that says, "DirectShowSource: GRF file does not have a compatible open video pin. Graph must have 1 output pin that will bid RGB24, RGB32, ARGB, YUY2, or YV12." My GRF file goes like this: File (async)>Sonic HD Demuxer>Sonic Cinemaster DS Video Decoder. Is NE1 else having this problem? and how would I go around this and correct it? thanks.


1."encoder failed to retrieve duration attribute from source plug-in."
Is no Problem...you will get it always

2. You need to add ConverttoYV12() into your AVS Script when you use SonicDecoder

wmcmd.vbs told you Video is only 10sec long because it cant read the Input...ofcourse caused by your faulty AVS Script

@acripp
MAybe Decoder related...use WMVideodecoder for Playback
When you open your AVS, ist it clean ?

[Bling20]

Ok so I have some MKV HD 720 file i want to convert to WMV to play straight on to my xbox 360. I have some WMV files that i have put to a DL data DVD and they work perfect in the media section of the 360. Could someone please like give me the steps and what I need to download in order to get my MKV files to WMV and play them like I have been doing in the media section? Thanks alot

[matrix40]

Hey when i use evodemux and i use the counted fram that it give me in my script. the full movie isnt ther i have to add alot more frames to get the full movie. Am i doing something wrong or should i keep adding frames until i get the full movie?

[Beastie Boy]

Use the calculated frame figure, not the counted one.

Cheers, Beastie.

[flipside786]

Have you guys used encode360, I havent had any problems with that tool. And personally i have tried a number of ways to encode, including TMPGEnc, WME, and Zambellis script.

I have found it the easiest with encode 360. Here are the steps I use.

1) Use the latest version of eac3to to encode the video to mkv and the audio to wav. This is done in one step.

2) Mux the Audio and Video into another mkv with mkvmerge.

3) Use the new mkv into encode360 and adjust all the settings there. I use the following bitrates video:15000 audio:768 with 5.1.

I have had flawless movies created using this method with no audio delays. The latest version of eac3to fixes all the audio delays on the fly.

You can also use tmpgenc expresss at the final step. It has a handy calculator to determine the final size of your wmv. Calculator only works when you use CBR.

Hope this helps.

[bluesk1d]

Ok, what is going on here? 37 hours and 20 minutes of encoding and I am getting pixelated, blocky video.

I have a P4 3.0ghz with 1.25gb RAM. Is this machine too slow?

Thanks for any tips.....

My command line, avs, and results -



Have you figured this out? The encode time is fairly normal depending on options and resolution but I too am getting garbage when using 2 pass vbr. 1 pass cbr works fine. I came across your post here after starting this new thread so if you have any news, you should answer here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=133587

[sparknburn]

Ok so I have some MKV HD 720 file i want to convert to WMV to play straight on to my xbox 360. I have some WMV files that i have put to a DL data DVD and they work perfect in the media section of the 360. Could someone please like give me the steps and what I need to download in order to get my MKV files to WMV and play them like I have been doing in the media section? Thanks alot

1. Demux using MKVExtract.
2. Convert AC3/DTS to 2 channel LC AAC using MeGUI or converter of your choice.
3. Use h264info to set complexity of your video stream to 4.1'
4. Remux using Yamb.
5. Change file extension to .avi.

File should play if under 4GB, which can be difficult for movies but works fine for TV shows. You also lose the DD 5.1, which is why most folks may not like this method but it only take about 15 minutes to complete as opposed to a lenghty re-encode. I saw this method here or over on another forum. I'll credit where I got this information as soon as I can locate it.

[Arminator]

1."encoder failed to retrieve duration attribute from source plug-in."
Is no Problem...you will get it always

2. You need to add ConverttoYV12() into your AVS Script when you use SonicDecoder


I have the exact same problem.
I have the following Graph:

MyMovie.EVO-->Sonic HD Demuxer-->Sonic Cinemaster Video Decoder 4.3.0

If I connect the Video Mixing Renderer 9 to the Cinemasters Videodecoder Video Out Pin, I get an Active Movie Window playing my movie.
Without the Video Mixing Renderer connected, I save the graph as "mygraph.grf".
I have a AVS Script with the following content:

DirectShowSource("M:\MyPath\myGraph.grf", fps=23.976, framecount=201466, audio=false)
ConvertToYV12()


However I still get the message "DirectShowSource: GRF file does not have a compatible open video pin. Graph must have one output pin that will bid RGB24, RGB32, ARGB, YUY2 or YV12. (M:\mypath\MyScript.AVS, line 1)"

How do I get this to render in Media Player or being usable in Windows Media Encoder?

EDIT: I just rebooted to Windows XP and curiously it renders there without problems.
Wonder what filters XP uses, that Vista hasn't.

[skrowl]

1) Use the latest version of eac3to to encode the video to mkv and the audio to wav. This is done in one step.


You just went down to 2 channel audio on your first step. WMV streaming to 360 supports 5.1 audio, so I'd like to leave the existing 5.1 in place, or convert 7.1 --> 5.1.

What's the best tool for that job?

[Arminator]

You just went down to 2 channel audio on your first step. WMV streaming to 360 supports 5.1 audio, so I'd like to leave the existing 5.1 in place, or convert 7.1 --> 5.1.

What's the best tool for that job?

I used eac3to to convert the Audio to "standard" AC3, then used Besweet to split it to several mono Wavs. These can then be used in the Windows Media Encoder.

[sbcale]

1) Use the latest version of eac3to to encode the video to mkv and the audio to wav. This is done in one step.


I can't get eac3to to output to mkv. It looks like it is audio formats only?

[Meilo]

eac3to can output mono wavs too, no need to use eac3to and besweet.

[Beastie Boy]

I can't get eac3to to output to mkv. It looks like it is audio formats only?

See the first post in the eac3to thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125966).

Cheers, Beastie.

[sbcale]

See the first post in the eac3to thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125966).

Cheers, Beastie.

My bad, I should have looked harder.

:stupid:

p.s. I was using the eac3toGUI which did not allow me to output to .mkv. Using the commandline worked just fine.

[skrowl]

My bad, I should have looked harder.

:stupid:

p.s. I was using the eac3toGUI which did not allow me to output to .mkv. Using the commandline worked just fine.

I'm almost to where I need to be now!

Goal: Blu-Ray (and possibly some HD DVDs that I have) to WMV that can be streamed to 360 with 5.1 audio.

It looks like eac3to can do everything I need with audio (by using the -down6 flag to get 6 separate mono tracks), but I'm going to have to go through a step by converting the mkv video file it outputs to something like avi that can be read by Windows Media Encoder.

Is there a tag I'm missing in eac3to that can output the video in something usable by WME, or perhaps some other tool that can take video in an MKV container + 6 mono wavs and create a WMV?

Is there a way to use the wmcmd.vbs + an avs script or something to accomplish this?

[bluesk1d]

Yes you can use avisynth and construct a very basic avs file (that points to your mkv as the directshow source) and load that as the video source in the windows media encoder.

[skrowl]

Yes you can use avisynth and construct a very basic avs file (that points to your mkv as the directshow source) and load that as the video source in the windows media encoder.

I created the following AVS script
DirectShowSource("C:\Test.mkv")

I can load this AVS in Windows Media Player 11, Windows Media Player 6.4, and VirtualDub (with no audio since VirtualDub doesn't support 5.1 audio), but when I try to encode it using the latest wmcmd.vbs, I get the following error
Start encoder failed with error -1072886846 The requested audio codec is not installed on this system.

Here is my command line that I was trying to use:
cscript WMCmd.vbs -input "C:\Test.avs" -output "C:\Test.wmv" -a_codec WMAPRO -a_mode 3 -a_setting Q90_48_6_24 -v_codec WVC1 -v_mode 2 -v_performance 80 -v_quality 95 -v_preset best

The video will convert fine in TMPGEnc, but my trial is about to run out so I'd like a freeware solution.

[bluesk1d]

You need to disable audio if youre doing video since it can only be one or the other.

DirectShowSource(C:\Test.mkv, audio=false)

[DMagic1]

Just a question....

Does how good your video card is affect how fast your video encodes?

If you have two systems with the same specs but one has a Geforce7900 and the other is using built in video. Should the 7900 system encode much faster?

[bluesk1d]

Just a question....

Does how good your video card is affect how fast your video encodes?

If you have two systems with the same specs but one has a Geforce7900 and the other is using built in video. Should the 7900 system encode much faster?

It won't encode any faster at all. Your GPU is not a factor when encoding video. It's all CPU and memory.

[DMagic1]

It won't encode any faster at all. Your GPU is not a factor when encoding video. It's all CPU and memory.

Thanks

I guess I need to upgrade the memory on the other machine. I didnt think there would be such a big difference in times between 2gb compared to 1gb.

[nm]

There shouldn't be a difference unless other programs or filters are hogging it all. Video encoders don't need that much memory.

[placebo3681]

Hey guys. Newbie here trying this for the first time. I've tried to read every post to make sure I know what I'm doing. I am little lost with the audio right now, though. After I demux the audio from the EVO, my plan as has been suggested is to take the audio split it into 6 different mono waves and then remux later with the video. My quetion: what program do I need to use to split it? Is it transcode? Do I need to convert it to something else to use transcode or does that program support the DD+ file I just demuxed? I think I'm missing a step here and jsut wanted some guidance to get back on track. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Update: Ok, so I think I figured out that I need eac3to to decode the audio to WAV and then transcode to 6 channels (correct?). I am hving problems with eac3to and can't seem to find a solution (searched here and google). Bascially after I input the command, eac3to starts up but then says it can't read the input stream. I have Nero 7 Essentials installed. Am I missing something else?

[Beastie Boy]

In eac3to, use .wavs as the output file extension. This will split the audio into the 6 mono waves ready for input into Windows Media Encoder.
If you haven't purchased the Nero HD-DVD/Blu-Ray plugin, use the -libav switch in eac3to.

Cheers, Beastie.

[placebo3681]

In eac3to, use .wavs as the output file extension. This will split the audio into the 6 mono waves ready for input into Windows Media Encoder.
If you haven't purchased the Nero HD-DVD/Blu-Ray plugin, use the -libav switch in eac3to.

Cheers, Beastie.

Thank you very much, Beastie. Finally something worked. I used wavavimux to combine them. Now all i need to do is figure how to encode the video and the mux them together.

[d9rook]

So did any of you newbs in this thread end up figuring out how to get this to work finally? I read some of the original posts but it was like reading how to perform surgery when my medical experience and knowledge consists of playing operation.

[setarip_old]

@d9rook

Are you aware that in your zeal to solve your dilemma (for which you've already made duplicate postings), you've now posted to a thread that's been inactive for almost three years?

[d9rook]

Yes i see that, but it's the closest thing I can find to what I am asking. The reason I've made multiple postings is because people generally look at the top of a thread list and respond to those they don't browse 8 pages deep looking to help someone out. Do you know of anyone that can help me solve this? I merged with the MkVmergeGUI prog but the audio is off cue.

[DMagic1]

Easy solution...

Microsoft's Expression Encoder 4