Building a new rig, opinions?

[clsid]

Since rev 1059, I am not able to compile ffdshow anymore on my main PC, because Windows XP and Visual Studio 2005 or newer are required.

So this is a good excuse to build a new system. I was thinking about getting these components:

Case: Chieftec BH-01B-B-B
PSU: Seasonic S12-500
Mobo: Asus P5B-E
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (2,13 GHz) (will be oc'ed)
Mem: Kingston KHX6400D2LLK2/2GN 2048 MB DDR2 PC6400 CAS4
HDD: 2x Western Digital Caviar SE16 320 GB
CPU fan: Scythe SCNJ-1100P Ninja Rev. B
DVD Burner: Asus DRW1814BLT
GC: Asus EAX1650PRO SILENT/TD

Edit: updated component list with better stuff :)

[haruhiko_yamagata]

haha, I'm planing to build my new system at the same time.
Which should I buy vista64 or Xp64?
Does mingw-GCC run on vista64?

[clsid]

I am probably going to create a dual-boot system XP32 + XP64.

Is there a 64-bit mingw yet?

[fastplayer]

PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower 600 Watt
Get anything from Enermax, Antec, OCZ (GameXStream) or Seasonic (S12).
Mobo: Asus P5N-E SLI
Have you looked at the nvidia's chipset driver support? Abysmal...
Pair the Conroe up with Intel's P965 chipset: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 or ASUS P5B-E.
HDD: 2x Samsung Spinpoint T166 500 GB 7200RPM SATAII
Awesome price, good performance and vibrate like hell... Get something from Seagate or WD like the "Caviar SE16". If you want it really quiet, then get one of WD's "WDxxxxAAJS" drives.
DVD Burner: Samsung SH-S183A SATA
I have the predecessor SH-W163A and it just burns :D
Any suggestions for which mid-range graphics card I should get?
Can you wait till ATI and NVIDIA release their mid-range DX10 offerings? The 8600GT(S) looks promising.

[Px]

PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower 600 Watt
Too high price, not low noise, better to buy Seasonic S-12 SS-500HT or FSP Epsilon FSP500-80GLN. There is no really need in high wattages....if you not planning to build quad crossfire system on R600 :)

Mobo: Asus P5N-E SLI
Only if you want to create SLI system, set up linux in near future (not in year/two) or use IDE HDD/ODD. In other case Asus P5B-E Plus is better.

HDD: 2x Samsung Spinpoint T166 500 GB 7200RPM SATAII
From point of noise, it's not a good decision, better to buy hdds with 300-320 GB capacity

DVD Burner: Samsung SH-S183A SATA
Good reader, not good writer, better Asus 1612BLT/1814BLT, they also SATA....

Any suggestions for which mid-range graphics card I should get?

Now it's not a very good time for buying videocard, because in middle of april NVIDIA presents new GeForce 8600/8400/8300 cards with DX10 support, also AMD (ATI) near to that show new R600 middlerange products.
From current point - better AMD (ATI) Radeon X1950 PRO, but I don't know what prices you rate as mid-range, maybe in your country NVIDIA 8800GTS 320 MB gets in that range....

[clsid]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I'll change to the Seasonic PSU and the Asus burner.

I assumed the Samsung drives to be quiet. Maybe I'll get some 250GB ones of the older Spinpoint model instead. Those are famous for their low noise. I'll have a look at the WD ones too.

The reason I chose for the Asus P5N-E SLI mobo is its low price and compatibility with the upcoming Intel CPUs (with 1333 FSB). I know the nVidia drivers for Vista are crap. I'll have a better look at some alternatives. Perhaps an Asus P5B-E or an Asus P5B-V (with onboard graphics, so that I can wait for a DX10 card).

I know it is a bad time for getting a graphics card. So maybe I'll just get a cheap one and replace it later.

[Episode]

@clsid, I'd suggest ATI's 1950 series since Nvidia doesn't seem to care about XP-users anymore. Last official beta driver for other than 8800 series cards was released last november :-/ ATI on the other hand releases new drivers every month.

[zambelli]

@clsid, I'd suggest ATI's 1950 series since Nvidia doesn't seem to care about XP-users anymore. Last official beta driver for other than 8800 series cards was released last november :-/ ATI on the other hand releases new drivers every month.
Don't hold your breath... ATI/AMD isn't any more likely to keep up with XP support, especially with new features such as DXVA 2.0 and DirectX 10 which require Vista.

[Px]

@clsid, I'd suggest ATI's 1950 series since Nvidia doesn't seem to care about XP-users anymore. Last official beta driver for other than 8800 series cards was released last november :-/ ATI on the other hand releases new drivers every month.
The problems with NV drivers came from no competition with ATI, they see no competitor (long R600 launch) and think that there is no need to fix bugs, users anyway buy their product....
Also, now them focused on vista drivers......

[Gord]

@clsid, I'd suggest ATI's 1950 series since Nvidia doesn't seem to care about XP-users anymore. Last official beta driver for other than 8800 series cards was released last november :-/ ATI on the other hand releases new drivers every month.

The 100.95 betas released a few weeks ago would refute your claims I would think.

[tekNerd]

100.95 betas?

[Px]

100.95 betas?
Also 100.87, 100.65, 101.41......

[dragongodz]

The 100.95 betas released a few weeks ago would refute your claims I would think.
no 100.95 were 8 series only aswell. however you can get a modded inf to install to 6 and 7 series cards aswell. relevant information here
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=26

Nvidia doesn't seem to care about XP-users anymore.
ATI on the other hand releases new drivers every month.
hmm pity they dont seem to be able to release hardware then isnt it ?
i mean come on. i know people are constantly wanting new drivers but unless you have some major problem older drivers are generally fine for series 6 and7 cards on XP.
also you have no idea what ati's drivers are going to be like. any claim that they will be perfect is refuted by their current drivers. you mention they keep releasing drivers, why is that do you think ? because they are perfect ? think again.
lets just stop the nvidia bashing or take it to some other forum like rage3d. :devil:

personally if you are thinking of going for one of the midrange dx10 capable cards in a few months there is little to no point going for a top end card now, thats from either nvidia or ati.

for HDD i would be tempted to go seagate insted of WD because traditionally the seagates are cooler. so long as you have plenty of air flow/cooling in your case though it probably wont make too much difference.

[foxyshadis]

People are mostly worried about card makers continuing support for older platforms and cards with new games, and I doubt that's going to change much in the future. Within a few months, the vista dust will settle down, and even if the drivers are never reunified they'll still release new xp drivers. Plus X1300s or 7300s for temp cards are dirt cheap and just as sellable in six months as now.

AMD's already written off the R600 as their version of the Geforce FX/NV30, and is putting most of their engineering toward the R700, for better or worse. They expect to compete in the holiday season or next year with a redesigned chip on a much smaller process instead. Don't expect miracles once X2900 comes out, even if it's more powerful than an 8800gtx when it's cranked up, it'll dim the lights and won't be long for this world.

[shtef]

Hi everyone. I just noticed that new processors from Intel are coming out. Specifically there's E6420 with same price as E6400 but with 4MB of L2 cache (E6400 has only 2MB).
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e6420.html

Regards.

[check]

I never liked kingston RAM, why not get some corsair TwinX 6400 CAS4 or 5 stuff?

[nfm]

It doesn't matter what brand, but what chips are on sticks if you're going to overclock.

[diizzy]

@ clsid
Perhaps a bit late but I woudn't go with the Asus P5B-E, first of all it uses an Attansic LAN-chip and they've been acquired which likely wont continue support on their products (I imagine) and I dont think performance isnt that great either. It also uses an ADI-chip for sound while being a rather good AD seems to be very slow or non existant when it comes to driver updates which may be interesting.
I would recommend you to go with Gigabyte Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 which uses Realtek HD Audio-chip and Marvell (Yukon) for LAN.
//Danne

[Px]

@ clsid
Perhaps a bit late but I woudn't go with the Asus P5B-E, first of all it uses an Attansic LAN-chip and they've been acquired which likely wont continue support on their products (I imagine) and I dont think performance isnt that great either.
Attansic were bought by Asus, you really think that they stop supporting Asus products? :rolleyes:

It also uses an ADI-chip for sound while being a rather good AD seems to be very slow or non existant when it comes to driver updates which may be interesting.
I would recommend you to go with Gigabyte Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 which uses Realtek HD Audio-chip and Marvell (Yukon) for LAN.
//Danne
GG-byte (:D) got problems with overclock, stability and BIOS, some of my friends try both mainboards in their PC, and choose Asus....

[diizzy]

No, you're wrong
http://www.dailywireless.com/press-releases/atheros-attansic-aquire-102306/
http://www.atheros.com/news/attansic.html

The Gigabyte is solid as a rock, you have a lot of users that can confirm that. Your friends most likely got HW rev 1 which is being replaced by HW rev 3.3

I would personally go for a ViiV platform (due to stability) but they arent OC friendly.
//Danne

[Px]

No, you're wrong
http://www.dailywireless.com/press-releases/atheros-attansic-aquire-102306/
http://www.atheros.com/news/attansic.html
Oh, I'm sorry, I mistaked :(

The Gigabyte is solid as a rock, you have a lot of users that can confirm that. Your friends most likely got HW rev 1 which is being replaced by HW rev 3.3
I don't think that this is good solution, to find needed revision. Also, I recommend P5B-E Plus with solid capacitors and marvell lan chip. And I see, that author changed his decision, because before he wants P5N-E SLI

[diizzy]

You still get an AD(I) sound chip (my rather bad experience with AD/ADI is due to A8R-MVP) and rev 1.0 is really old by now so there's very little chance (pretty much non existent) that you get a rev 1.0 anyways.
Anyone who wants to go nForce/VIA on an Intel platform should really reconsider Intel :-)
Intel is by far superior than both chipset makers mentioned above...
//Danne

[Px]

You still get an AD(I) sound chip (my rather bad experience with AD/ADI is due to A8R-MVP)
I also had bad experience on ADI chip on my P5B, on default drivers I've got random BSODs, so I turned it off, because had no time to test other drivers.

Anyone who wants to go nForce/VIA on an Intel platform should really reconsider Intel :-)
Intel is by far superior than both chipset makers mentioned above...
Agree for Via, disagree for NV, especially because EPP memory profiles :)
But I don't have information about overclock on NV (and time to search for it)....

[diizzy]

I dont see why you want a chipset with poor drivers and poor support (compared to Intel).
//Danne

[Px]

I dont see why you want a chipset with poor drivers and poor support (compared to Intel).
//Danne
Tell me more about drivers and support :rolleyes:, because I doesn't saw any problems not with NF3, nor NF4, 570U, Geforce 6100/6150 that pass my hands in last three years :D

[diizzy]

You've missed posts about corrupted data during transfers, nVidia Firewall that leaks memory like nothing else, inproper implentation of PCI causing static/quirks in low latency sound applications?
I can post links in you want to, Intel is by far better than nVidia when it comes to chipsets. Poor IDE drivers etc....
//Danne

[morph166955]

Suggestion bout your DVD Drive. I've gone through about 6 different DVD burners over the past 18 months in a quest to find the drive that imho creates the most compatible burns with other and older setups (I sold them off or used them elsewhere, didn't break em or anything).

I ended that quest a few months ago on the NEC AD-7170A (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152076).

That drive is the best thing since sliced bread for DVD's in my book. Burns single layer DVD-R's at 18x flawlessly. It can do dual layer DVD+R's at 8x however I normally keep it down to 6x or 4x to be on the safe side since the media isnt completley 8x capable in my book. The few CD's ive done burn at like 48x I believe, I haven't done enough to really remember but either way they are done in under 90 seconds, normally less.

I've now verified over 100 SL discs and probably about 50 DL discs on 3 other burners from 3 different manufactures (LG, Sony and Pioneer I believe) and I have not had a single failure on any of them. that LG drive always caused problems for me where it would make burns (mostly problems on dual layer discs) that could only be ready by other LG drives of similar/identical model type. I could not be more pleased with this drive. I also have switched to using ONLY verbatim discs. They cost a tad bit more per spindle but the burn quality and compatibility are second to none.

The drive is $31 + S/H from newegg, you just cant go wrong with that. I'm still looking over the rest of your parts but I wanted to post this in case you were buying it like right now or in case I forget to post any more comments about the setup for a few days (little crazy right now with midterms).

Hope thats helpful!

[Px]

You've missed posts about corrupted data during transfers
Missed, because i use application-level firewall
nVidia Firewall that leaks memory like nothing else
That is additional software, not driver. And may I see Intel firewall? :rolleyes:
inproper implentation of PCI causing static/quirks in low latency sound applications?
And problems with X-Fi, yes, i hear about that, but the problem is that I don't see any of above on my PCs, maybe I do something wrong? :rolleyes:

I can post links in you want to, Intel is by far better than nVidia when it comes to chipsets. Poor IDE drivers etc....
May I see Intel IDE on 965-chipsets mainboards? :rolleyes:

[Px]

I ended that quest a few months ago on the NEC AD-7170A
NEC is a good writer, but not a good reader. Also, it's better to buy SATA version, AD-7170S, but the main problem with NEC/Optiarc - too much defective drives...Same problem with old Pioner-based Asus (1608P-1608P3S)....

[diizzy]

http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/nforce4_tests.htm
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTI0NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
..some more incompatbilities
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=8171

Intel chipsets are rarely plauged by issues such as ones mentioned above and the JMicron controller seems to work just fine.
//Danne

[morph166955]

NEC is a good writer, but not a good reader. Also, it's better to buy SATA version, AD-7170S, but the main problem with NEC/Optiarc - too much defective drives...Same problem with old Pioner-based Asus (1608P-1608P3S)....

good writer but not a good reader? ive never had a problem with it reading anything that was burned with anything other then the discs that nothing but its own burner would read. sata would be better in theory cause its a newer technology however in my experience your not burning fast enough yet to overrun the ide anyway so i really dont see where it really matters in the long run

[Px]

http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/nforce4_tests.htm
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTI0NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
..some more incompatbilities
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=8171
That is all very interesting, but I ask 1 more time - why I don't have such problems? I've got special MB's? :rolleyes: And I don't see link to Intel Firewall ;)
Also, you confused software problems with hardware...

Intel chipsets are rarely plauged by issues such as ones mentioned above
Yeah, they got more interesting issues with south bridge blows
http://www.devhardware.com/forums/motherboards-32/repeated-usb-failure-on-msi-865-mb-s-33530.html
:D

and the JMicron controller seems to work just fine.
//Danne
Under Windows in IDE mode only ;), if you want to put it in ahci mode, even under Windows you've got same problems as with AD sound ;)

[diizzy]

@ Px
No really, everything except nV Firewall is hardware "bugs/quirks". The one you managed to find is (apparently only by MSI) and the southbridge is really old so you should have heard much more than that if they're defective in general.

It's there because of the IDE, I'm not saying that its an excuse that AHCI doesnt work (they do though release new drivers unlike AD) if it doesnt but why not use the southbridge instead since most rarely have more than 4-6 drives anyway for the time being. I havent found any reports though, just Linux people...
//Danne

[Px]

@ Px
No really, everything except nV Firewall is hardware "bugs/quirks".
Wrong, if it was hardware bugs, then they also appeared even without drivers ;)
The one you managed to find is (apparently only by MSI)
Wrong, read all topic, that problem on all 875/865/845 mobos (until new ICH revision) from all vendors. If you can read russian (or use translator), look at this topic - http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=9:53483

and the southbridge is really old so you should have heard much more than that if they're defective in general.
And you can swear, that there will be no such problem in future? :rolleyes:

Also, all what you said about nvidia is about Nforce3/4 chipsets, they are not too old? :rolleyes:


It's there because of the IDE, I'm not saying that its an excuse that AHCI doesnt work (they do though release new drivers unlike AD) if it doesnt but why not use the southbridge instead since most rarely have more than 4-6 drives anyway for the time being.
If you turn ahci on, it also turns on on IDE drive ;)

[diizzy]

You can code around hardware bugs even though some may be not so nice solutions. Of course Intel can do fuck ups, although it occurs very rarely (compared to nVidia) and they've also designed the platform itself so I have some confidence that they'll do it right. Hmm... I think you misunderstood me regarding the JMicron controller. It's main reason for being included is because of the lack of IDE-support on Intel's southbridge. If you want to use it its most likely because of the PATA connector.
//Danne

[Px]

You can code around hardware bugs even though some may be not so nice solutions.
Yes, you can, but that means that problems also occurs in standard mode :)/ Not NVidia case ;)

Of course Intel can do fuck ups, although it occurs very rarely (compared to nVidia)
Yeah, 1 big hardware problem is smaller that some software bugs :rolleyes:
and they've also designed the platform itself so I have some confidence that they'll do it right.
May I remember you about compatibility between Intel chipsets and CPU? 925->925X->955->975->975 (Conroe update). They do it right? :rolleyes:
It's main reason for being included is because of the lack of IDE-support on Intel's southbridge.
I knew about that. I knew about reasons for this decision. And I agree with Intel on this point, but if I see better product for now (NVidia with native IDE), I say about that.

If you want to use it its most likely because of the PATA connector.
Two optical drives, and I don't see any reasons to change them

Let me tell you one more thing: look on top systems with Intel CPU, they all on NVidia chipsets, mostly because of SLI. Intel loosed that chipset battle. Now NV begins expansion in middle segment, and they also wins there, they have such experience (look where VIA now) and have products that exceeds competitors'. You can tell bogeyman stories about "hardware" problems of NV, but it's not true :)

[Blue_MiSfit]

Right. The 680i SLI chipset is the overclocking king IIRC.

There's nothing really wrong with nVidia's chipsets... I've been using them since the nForce2, and in most areas they excell. Yes the hardware firewall / TCP/IP offload stuff is totally, hopelessly crappy and buggy, but who cares? It's an optional thing that you don't have to use.

~MiSfit

[G_M_C]

Right. The 680i SLI chipset is the overclocking king IIRC.

There's nothing really wrong with nVidia's chipsets... I've been using them since the nForce2, and in most areas they excell. [...]


This might be; But for Intel C2D/C2Q systems, the Intel chipsets are fastest (on average). At least afaik and according to tests by THG.

See this link to page 6 of a review (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/04/04/does_chipset_to_gpu_matching_matter/page6.html), with figures that matter most to us (video/Audio encoding ;) ). But dont forget to read page 7 and 8, to get the idea.

But the difference between 680i and P965 is very small, and the advise from THG is that you base your choise between these two cipsets on options/specs/features, rather than on the speed of the chipset only.

[check]

Don't rtust toms hardware on anything that involves intel. Here's a recent blog post why: http://scientiasblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/could-toms-hardware-guide-get-its-soul.html

EDIT: although I suppose I should say that some of their opinion pieces are decidedly more balanced now, it remains to see if the next big CPU comparison will show the same shift.

[Px]

This might be; But for Intel C2D/C2Q systems, the Intel chipsets are fastest (on average). At least afaik and according to tests by THG.
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/mainboard/nvidia-nforce-680i-lt-sli-chipset.html
:)

[diizzy]

Although Intel wins by far when it comes to stability, and I can live with 7-zip performing 2 secs slower....
//Danne

[Px]

Although Intel wins by far when it comes to stability
Yeah, I remember that song :D (from yeah 2001-2003 and AMD cpu-s :p )
If Intel is stability, and this can not be said about NV, then what these drivers doing on Intel ftp - ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/12961/eng/Graphics_drivers_XP.zip ? :D
And also, what about Intel D101GGCL and D102GGC2L mobos? :rolleyes:

[MrSeanKon]

Get anything from Enermax, Antec, OCZ (GameXStream) or Seasonic (S12).One more vote especially for Enermax PSUs.
Antec are not good as in the past.