camcorder -> capture -> save with lossless codec instead of DV codec

[dhrv]

hey,
when capturing video from my camcorder with ScenalyzorLive the video is saved with DV video and PCM audio --> too much file size for my HDD
that's why i'm looking for a software that can capture video from a camcorder and save the file with lossless video and audio codecs or with codecs of my choice :)

hope you guys can help me...thanks!

[bb]

Welcome to the forum, dhrv.

DV is compressed 5:1 (lossy); the compression ratio you can get from a lossless codec, e.g. Huffyuv, is siginifcantly lower, like 2.5:1. There is no point in compressing the audio, because the size of the audio stream can be neglected compared to the size of the video stream.

Your only chance to get lower filesizes is to compress to a lossy format, e.g. MPEG-2, which can be done in realtime, e.g. with Ulead VideoStudio or MainConcept MPEG Encoder. You'll lose quality that way, though, and the edit-friendly format.

bb

[Blue_MiSfit]

Indeed. Well put BB.

I think the ideal workflow is to capture to a lossless video codec / uncompressed audio, process, and then re-encode as necessary.

I have always used HuffYUV until recently, when I discovered Lagarith. It's a bit slower, but compresses a lot better. Pretty much a drop-in replacement, and even works with Adobe Premiere :)

~MiSfit

[Kendoh]

Thanks, MiSfit. Do you happen to know if Huffyuv or Lagarith can be used by Vegas ? Do I need a high-end capture device (Direct Link, Canopus ?). Working on a decision list for NLE hardware purchase. Hi 8 source video for this project. Thanks in advance to any experienced advice.

[smok3]

huff does work with vegas, dunno about lagarith.

[Kendoh]

Thanks, Smok3

[signal]

I think dhrv's problem isn't what codec to use, it's what software will allow you to select another codec to capture with when a DV Camera/device is involved.

You'd think that would be a straight forward "well, just pick another codec in your capture app", but isn't when it comes to DV Firewire capture.

I'm in the same boat (for different reasons), so have the same question.

Premiere Pro, Virtual Dub, and AMCap do not allow you to select an alternate codec for capture when you have a firewire camera plugged in.

AMCap: Selecting an alternate codec to save with still generates an AVI with a DV fourcc.

Virtual Dub capture: "Select video compression" only shows dvsd as an option. All other options greyed out.

Premiere Pro: enough said, no options to save with an alternate codec.

I think what's going on is the data is coming in already in lossy DV fromat and capture software isn't setup to go DV codec->uncompressed->selected codec->file.

It's expecting uncompressed->selected codec->file.

(that's overly simplified, but you get my meaning).

It's that or it's everyones assumption that if you capture DV, then you want to save as DV.

As it stands, I guess there's no way to capture straight to a non-DV codec when using a DV Firewire device. You have to capture to DV and transcode it afterwards?

[bb]

signal,

I'm afraid you completely misunderstood the way firewire captures work. Your DV camcorder has a built-in hardware DV encoder; the data written on the tape is already DV encoded. A capture program merely copies the DV stream via firewire to the PC's harddisk, which could be done completely without involving a DV codec; a DV codec is necessary only to decode the preview.

If your capture program (or an encoder with a capture module like MainConcept MPEG Encoder) offers a codec or an encoder selection, then real video processing takes place, which also stresses the cpu. Due to the realtime encoding you may experience frame drops or aborts depending on codec / encoder settings - similar to analogue capturing. The classic camcorder-to-DV process does not suffer from such issues.

bb

[smok3]

virtualdub can capture via firewire?

[signal]

smok3 - yes Virtual Dub can capture DV from Firewire.
Not sure about camera control (i.e. play, stop, etc) as I'm using a Canopus ADVC110. If it helps, I'm using version 1.6.17.

bb - No, I understood.

As I said, it was overly simplified.
I realize it doesn't have to go through the uncompress portion in that linear fashion.

I was looking for a way to select another output codec though to avoid a two step process of saving and transcoding.

It isn't a "problem" with the capture apps considering your second point which is a fact of capturing in general.

However, I know my system can deal with my scenario and went ahead and created a filter graph with graphedit to take care of it.

Thanks

[signal]

BTW - Found out how to do this in AMCap as well.

Set Capture -> Capture DV As -> none
Set Capture -> Compression -> AVI compression
Set Capture -> Setup -> Compression -> Select your Video Compressor

As has been pointed out, the source is already encoded as DV before it hits your system, but this will let you save it in yet another format if you wish.

As bb points out as well, if your going to use another codec you'd better not be using something that can't encode in realtime.

[FredThompson]

IIRC, DV is something like 13G per hour of source. If that's too large for your hard drive, the problem isn't the codec...

You didn't mention which video format you're using and it does make a difference with DV. A LOT of damage can be done to the source if you transcode to a different codec during transfer from your camcorder. (I hate the word capture when discussing digital video. There is no "capture" in the traditional sense, all you're doing is moving data packets, not converting analog to digital.)

If you have NTSC source and convert to anything other than 4:1:1 or 4:2:2 or you have PAL source and convert to anything other than 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 you run the risk of screwing up the video, sometimes quite horribly. That's assuming you want a quality product. If you want QnD...

IIWY, I'd transfer the source as DV and THEN you can process however you want. There are a number of good methods for compensating for the chroma (color) weaknesses of both NTSC and PAL DV. Trying to do them on the fly while transferring is asking for trouble unless you really know what you're doing.