QT alt and CoreAVC installed at the same time?

[Tordenflesk]

Is it possible to have both QT alt. and CoreAVC installed at the same time without causing trouble?
It seems i have there 2 choices:
1. both installed: Rubbish playback(dropping frames like a mad scientist) of local files, but i can watch embeddded files without a problem, or...
2. I Get rid of QT ALT, and have only CoreAVC installed. That way i can enjoy 1080P Without dropping frames, but no embedded videos work. Is there a way for me to use CoreAVC instead of QT for local files?

[mgh]

AFAIK, during qt alternative install, you get option to leave the h264 and aac decoders untouched.

[foxyshadis]

You could also consider dropping quicktime alltogether and going with VLC's embedded player instead. It isn't any less stable than quicktime - not saying much, I know - but at least it's a lot faster.

[Tordenflesk]

mgh: I tried that but it still "took over" the job of decoding h264.
foxyshadis: Stupid me, i knew that. Any idea if it'll play the trailers on apple.com? and is it possible to save the file, just like with QT?
EDIT: No, it won't

[smok3]

my suggestion would be;
- use mpui for *.mov or *.mp4 playback locally
- you can dl any trailers by looking at the html source a bit and then dropping the link to wacket or some similar downloader.

links;
http://mpui.sourceforge.net/ official
http://mulder.dummwiedeutsch.de/home/?page=projects#mplayer Lord mulder's
http://www.snapfiles.com/get/wackget.html

[foxyshadis]

mgh: I tried that but it still "took over" the job of decoding h264.
foxyshadis: Stupid me, i knew that. Any idea if it'll play the trailers on apple.com? and is it possible to save the file, just like with QT?
EDIT: No, it won't

Drat! It must have something to do with the way the trailers are sent, since if loaded locally or remotely outside the browser (the 1k link file), it'll play the full file just fine. Well, with lousy buffering. I'll look and see if it can be forced with a mime type or something.

[kurt]

mgh: I tried that but it still "took over" the job of decoding h264.
foxyshadis: Stupid me, i knew that. Any idea if it'll play the trailers on apple.com? and is it possible to save the file, just like with QT?
EDIT: No, it won't
there is a trailer page with all directlinks to qt trailers: http://www.davestrailerpage.co.uk/

vlc and mplayer can play these mov files. Furthermore you could install coreavc/ffdshow and decode them with haali splitter in mpc. no need for quicktime/qt alternative at all.

btw: mostly i remux them in mkv

[clsid]

If you use Media Player Classic to play local .mov files, then it will use QT to decode them, which is terribly slow. Rename the files (e.g. to hdmov or mp4) and MPC will switch to use DirectShow filters, allowing CoreAVC to do the decoding.

[Avish]

Drat! It must have something to do with the way the trailers are sent, since if loaded locally or remotely outside the browser (the 1k link file), it'll play the full file just fine. Well, with lousy buffering. I'll look and see if it can be forced with a mime type or something. Hi Foxyshadis, If u use Firefox, then there is add-on called Cache Viewer, with it u can easily copy anything u've viewed in ur browser. It is very simple, when the video finishes loading 100%, just open the cache viewer, & u'll find that file there. [u'll have to search a little] :D

I've successfully copied many trailers from apple.com. to my HDD with this add-on. Hope this helps. ;)

[Tordenflesk]

there is a trailer page with all directlinks to qt trailers: http://www.davestrailerpage.co.uk/

vlc and mplayer can play these mov files. Furthermore you could install coreavc/ffdshow and decode them with haali splitter in mpc. no need for quicktime/qt alternative at all.

btw: mostly i remux them in mkvLooks like that'll be my solution then. Thanks for all help.

[jmnk]

This is a problem that has been puzzling me for a while. Why is it that I can't get a directshow-based player to play apple trailers by streaming from the web site? I mean - if i download the files to my drive I can play virtually every single one with no problem. Which means I have all needed filters: the trailers play mostly with Haali + ffdshow audio + ffdshow video + renderer. But when I try to play the same file without downloading the MPC player complains with the error like this (or similar):

VLC player can play every single apple trailer I have tried - either from a local copy or off the web site. I use it to verify if the url is correct.

So is it that Haali splitter can't "read" http-streamed media? Can it be fixed somehow? Any ideas?

I know there are many ways to just download the trailer first - but why is it needed? How is it that VLC has no problems?
regards.

[clsid]

The trailers on the apple site link to small redirect files. VLC is able to parse them. DS players don't understand them. So that is why you need to download the actual file first.

[Schrade]

Is it possible to have both QT alt. and CoreAVC installed at the same time without causing trouble?
It seems i have there 2 choices:
1. both installed: Rubbish playback(dropping frames like a mad scientist) of local files, but i can watch embeddded files without a problem, or...
2. I Get rid of QT ALT, and have only CoreAVC installed. That way i can enjoy 1080P Without dropping frames, but no embedded videos work. Is there a way for me to use CoreAVC instead of QT for local files?
Yes.

Just set Quicktime file to DirectShow instead of Quicktime in View -> Options -> Formats in Media Player Classic.

By default it's set to Quicktime so you must change it manually. (You have to click on the Quicktime word in the right column and it then turns into a dropdown menu) Might want to make sure you have the latest ffdshow tryouts too and set it to decode SVQ1/3 files as those are what most Quicktime files use if they don't use H.264.

Also, Quicktime Alternative's player can usually detect when a file is a Quicktime HD trailer and will pop up its downloader that allows you to either just save the file or save the file then play it using MPC. It won't stream it though, of course.

[jmnk]

The trailers on the apple site link to small redirect files. VLC is able to parse them. DS players don't understand them. So that is why you need to download the actual file first.
I'm afraid that is not the problem. I mean MPC will definitely not play the file when given the link from apple web site. But it will not play the file even if I do provide a link to an actual file. maybe an example would be better:
the link on apple web site:
http://images.apple.com/movies/sony_pictures/thepursuitofhappyness/thepursuitofhappyness_h.320.mov
that is just a small ~145 bytes file you can download and open in notepad. I can understand that MPC can't properly parse it, get out the "real" link, and try to open "real" file. I would wish it could - but I kind of understand it is outside the scope of what MPC does.

But I can open apple web page (or even easier get the proper path to a real file from the above small redirection file) and construct a full path to a real file myself. In this case the "real" file is at
http://images.apple.com/movies/sony_pictures/thepursuitofhappyness/thepursuitofhappyness_h320.mov (note the missing '.' between 'h' and '320'). This url actually points to a .mov file - you can download it, it will be about 5.7MB. Now, feeding this now-correct path to MPC still results in an error. So there must be something else that prevents MPC from playing online mov files. Any other ideas?

@shrade
[QUOTE=Schrade;965983]"Also, Quicktime Alternative's player can usually detect when a file is a Quicktime HD trailer and will pop up its downloader that allows you to either just save the file or save the file then play it using MPC. It won't stream it though, of course." [/QOUTE]- why so? what is preventing MPC player from streaming?

[foxyshadis]

Hi Foxyshadis, If u use Firefox, then there is add-on called Cache Viewer, with it u can easily copy anything u've viewed in ur browser. It is very simple, when the video finishes loading 100%, just open the cache viewer, & u'll find that file there. [u'll have to search a little] :D

I've successfully copied many trailers from apple.com. to my HDD with this add-on. Hope this helps. ;)

I know, but the question was about streaming. It's a snap to play downloaded files, but getting them to play embedded in a web page is proving to be a difficult problem.

[clsid]

MPC can stream QT files just fine. The second link you posted works for me. Streaming only works if MPC is set to use the QT api, it doesn't work when set to DirectShow.

[jmnk]

MPC can stream QT files just fine. The second link you posted works for me. Streaming only works if MPC is set to use the QT api, it doesn't work when set to DirectShow.
I need to learn how to correctly ask questions. I wonder why it is not possible to use directshow only player to play streaming content from apple site. By that I mean no QT api. The practical reason is that
a) since I have all filters needed to play local .mov file why should I have to install QT components?
b) there are directshow players that cannot use QT API the way MPC can
c) I can't use QT API filters in graphedit (right?)

And it is more theoretical discussion than anything else, I like MPC a lot so it should not be taken as complainig abot MPC functionality. It just that I do not understand which component in the directshow filter chain is not able to deal with streaming .mov. Maybe there's a need for yet another source/splitter filter? Maybe Haali one could be improved? Or is it (as someone suggested before) the way apple web server indicates the type of content - meaning there's something they do on purpose to make it not work with pure directshow players?
thoughts?

[clsid]

Playing a file form disk is totally different than streaming form an url. It is the source filter that needs to support the streaming.

[jmnk]

Playing a file form disk is totally different than streaming form an url. It is the source filter that needs to support the streaming.
ok, so does it mean that
1) haali filter (which acts as both source and splitter) does not support streaming from http? (haali is a source filter here - right?), or
2) is it that MS built in URL source filter are used - and for whatever reasons these MS URL source filters do not perfom as one would hope?, or
3) Else?

[clsid]

In this case I think it should be handled by Haali's filter.

[jmnk]

In this case I think it should be handled by Haali's filter.

so there's no hope of playing streamed mov in MPC (via directshow filters only), is there?

[smok3]

i just retested that with mpc, mpui and with vlc, none works as expected.

[sillKotscha]

If you use Media Player Classic to play local .mov files, then it will use QT to decode them, which is terribly slow. Rename the files (e.g. to hdmov or mp4) and MPC will switch to use DirectShow filters, allowing CoreAVC to do the decoding.

no need to rename them if you set up MPC to use directshow from the beginning ;)

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/91d1f6447b.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

so there's no hope of playing streamed mov in MPC (via directshow filters only), is there?


??? streaming works at 100%... even with DS ... that's why I have installed Quicktime Alternative even though you wouldn't need it if you follow the setup below...

EDIT: my MPC/ ffdshow setup (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=962090&postcount=3)

[kikker]

Wait...So is it possible to associate local *.mov files with other DS-based players so that ffdshow (if configured) or CoreAVC can decode them along w/ Haali's splitter?

Or, is this already established- it's just that ffdshow does a poor job with these QT files?

[clsid]

ffdshow should work perfectly fine for local H.264 QuickTime files.

[kurt]

http://i17.tinypic.com/2cdy00m.jpg

--> it is possible to play mov with haali splitter and ffdshow/coreavc.

At least it works here after I uninstalled everything quicktime related...

[kikker]

OK, that's what I thought, but then what is the point of QT Alt if you already have the capability in ffdshow with the right source filter? Only for streaming?

[clsid]

QT/QTA allows you to play videos that are embedded in a webpage. There are also some audio/video formats used by QT that are not playable with ffdshow. Those are not very common. Some digital cameras use ancient QT formats for recording vids.

QTA usually automatically renames downloaded trailers to .hdmov when it detects that ffdshow/coreavc is installed.

[Haali]

It should work with my splitter if you set HKCR\HTTP\Extensions\.mov to {55DA30FC-F16B-49fc-BAA5-AE59FC65F82D}. I've checked the link above, and it works fine here.

[jmnk]

It should work with my splitter if you set HKCR\HTTP\Extensions\.mov to {55DA30FC-F16B-49fc-BAA5-AE59FC65F82D}. I've checked the link above, and it works fine here.
Thanks a lot for the tip. I'll try that (I've been playing around with these registry settings before but I couldn't get it to work. But I do not remember if I ever set it to this CSLID before). BTW - is that going to use Haali "plain splitter" or (AR) splitter? I'm assuming I should also uncheck internal mov/mp4 filter in MPC - right? Is that the only registry setting I should change? There's a bunch of seem-to-be-related stuff in HKCR\MEDIA_TYPE\....... and HKCR\MEDIA_TYPE\Extensions - do I need to modify anything there?

[HeadBangeR77]

I'm assuming I should also uncheck internal mov/mp4 filter in MPC - right?
I've been following this discussion from the beginning. I've got the internal MOV/mp4 source filter unchecked all the time. Newer mov files (all those HD-trailers with AVC inside, so mp4-like ;)) use Haali's splitter (I'm using it for all supported formats except AVIs), while many older ones use some devilish stuff from QuickTimeAlternative. Therefore I need QTA for those old files, mostly video-clips (e.g. video - SVQ1, audio - ima4), as well as for some strange old QT audio formats.

I'm afraid Haali's splitter simply doesn't support all kind of MOVs (whatever container hides behind this name), only those who can be easily renamed to hdmov or mp4 and play fine then. If you don't have such an old stuff like I do, then you can disable MPC's splitter imo. ;)

[jmnk]

I've been following this discussion from the beginning. I've got the internal MOV/mp4 source filter unchecked all the time. Newer mov files (all those HD-trailers with AVC inside, so mp4-like ;)) use Haali's splitter (I'm using it for all supported formats except AVIs), while many older ones use some devilish stuff from QuickTimeAlternative. Therefore I need QTA for those old files, mostly video-clips (e.g. video - SVQ1, audio - ima4), as well as for some strange old QT audio formats.

I'm afraid Haali's splitter simply doesn't support all kind of MOVs (whatever container hides behind this name), only those who can be easily renamed to hdmov or mp4 and play fine then. If you don't have such an old stuff like I do, then you can disable MPC's splitter imo. ;)
Dzieki/thanks the only problem with that reasoning is that once you download a .mov file (like the one I provided a link to earlier in this thread) it can be played with Haali + ffdshow, with no need for QTA at all. So the file itself must be in container format and be encoded with codecs that are understood by directshow filters chain. If I couldn't play a given .mov file at all, even from the hard drive after downloading it, I could understand that Haali + ffdshow just can't handle certain files. But that is not the case. So what is it?

[jmnk]

no need to rename them if you set up MPC to use directshow from the beginning ;)

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/91d1f6447b.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)




??? streaming works at 100%... even with DS ... that's why I have installed Quicktime Alternative even though you wouldn't need it if you follow the setup below...

EDIT: my MPC/ ffdshow setup (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=962090&postcount=3)
thanks. I'm a bit puzzled. You are claiming that QTA would not be needed if I follow your setup. But looking at your setup - what do use use to decode h.264/avc? It is not ffdshow as you have it disabled for h.264, and it looks like you do not have coreAVC (nor nero, nor cyberlink). A healthy number of apple .mov trailers are encoded with h.264-like codec. So that would lead me to believe that your apple trailers are being played using QTA - which is exactly what we are trying not to use. Am I mistaken? Could you post a picture (or a graph file itself) of the filter chain your MPC creates when playing .mov trailers streamed from apple site?

[Schrade]

It should work with my splitter if you set HKCR\HTTP\Extensions\.mov to {55DA30FC-F16B-49fc-BAA5-AE59FC65F82D}. I've checked the link above, and it works fine here.
When I add this it passes it off to the Quicktime decoder rather than ffdshow. Is that the expected behavior?

Also, I'm noticing that when I try to open some Quicktime movies from the HD using Haali splitter/Media Player Classic it's trying to play the movie in ffdshow with 29.966fps rather than the 25fps the video file has. It's an SVQ3 video at 25fps. If I use the built-in MOV/MP4 splitter in MPC it plays at 25fps in ffdshow.

Here's a video that shows the problem:
t_littlebigplanet_environcreationdemo_gdc07.mov (http://download.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/t_littlebigplanet_environcreationdemo_gdc07.mov) (39.1 MB)

This happens with a lot of movies and it seems to only happen with SVQ3 movies.

[clsid]

Dzieki/thanks the only problem with that reasoning is that once you download a .mov file (like the one I provided a link to earlier in this thread) it can be played with Haali + ffdshow, with no need for QTA at all. So the file itself must be in container format and be encoded with codecs that are understood by directshow filters chain. If I couldn't play a given .mov file at all, even from the hard drive after downloading it, I could understand that Haali + ffdshow just can't handle certain files. But that is not the case. So what is it?
MOV is indeed just a container. It can contain many different audio and video formats, some of which are not supported by ffdshow. So there are some files that are not playable with the Haali+ffdshow combo. Those files are rare. If you only play trailers, which usually have H.264 or SVQ3 video, then you can just use haali+ffdshow.

[sillKotscha]

thanks. I'm a bit puzzled. You are claiming that QTA would not be needed if I follow your setup. But looking at your setup - what do use use to decode h.264/avc? It is not ffdshow as you have it disabled for h.264, and it looks like you do not have coreAVC (nor nero, nor cyberlink).

where do you see that?... I have CoreAVC installed to decode h.264 streams...

So that would lead me to believe that your apple trailers are being played using QTA - which is exactly what we are trying not to use. Am I mistaken?

mistaken?... yes and no ;)

as stated there is a difference between files on your HD and streaming (apple) mov files...

just a picture of an aplle trailer on my HD:

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/00fe846758.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

I use MPC'S internal MP4/MOV source filter because of the information it displays... it is the only reason, otherwise I would use Haali's splitter for mov/mp4.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/51032d22c7.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

here you see a streamed trailer (your link)...

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/5847ce9ce1.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

at this moment QTA is used - which is save, so you can play all trailers available... that's what I've said... streaming is the only reason for me I have installed QTA - otherwise I wouldn't need it :)

[kikker]

Sorry to beat a dead horse into the ground, but what about Haali's post above regarding the reg hack... Wouldn't this circumvent the problem of not being able to stream AVC-like .mov files with ffdshow/coreAVC?

[jmnk]

MOV is indeed just a container. It can contain many different audio and video formats, some of which are not supported by ffdshow. So there are some files that are not playable with the Haali+ffdshow combo. Those files are rare. If you only play trailers, which usually have H.264 or SVQ3 video, then you can just use haali+ffdshow.
I apologise if I'm not making myself clear. I'm not worried about those .mov files that cannot be played with Haali+ffdshow (no QT) even after downloading them to the hard drive. So let's not talk about these for a moment. But there are .mov files that can be played with Haali+ffdshow (no QT) after downloading yet they cannot be played when trying to stream from the web. That is the scenario that we are trying to solve.

[jmnk]

Sorry to beat a dead horse into the ground, but what about Haali's post above regarding the reg hack... Wouldn't this circumvent the problem of not being able to stream AVC-like .mov files with ffdshow/coreAVC?
I tried that - and it kind of helps. For example, the "pursuit of happiness" link worked after this registry change. But I had a number of others links that either:
1) some streams resulted in error - Haali complained it can't open/play (sorry, do not remember the exact error), or
2) some streams would open on the initial frame, the MPC porgress slider does move, but the picture stays on first frame all the time, no audio, OSD (enabled in ffdshow) does not show any progress either (like CPU usage does not fluctuate). I believe MPC crashed after a while too.

But I think this is the right tract, maybe Haali could add more tips....

[jmnk]

where do you see that?... I have CoreAVC installed to decode h.264 streams...



mistaken?... yes and no ;)

as stated there is a difference between files on your HD and streaming (apple) mov files...

just a picture of an aplle trailer on my HD:

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/00fe846758.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

I use MPC'S internal MP4/MOV source filter because of the information it displays... it is the only reason, otherwise I would use Haali's splitter for mov/mp4.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/51032d22c7.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

here you see a streamed trailer (your link)...

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/5847ce9ce1.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

at this moment QTA is used - which is save, so you can play all trailers available... that's what I've said... streaming is the only reason for me I have installed QTA - otherwise I wouldn't need it :)
Perhaps I mis-read your post. On the top of your setup page you mention:
"assumed you have installed:

current versions of:

- Real Alternative 1.51

- QuickTime Alternative 1.77

- Haali Media Splitter (27/02/2007 - v1.7.89.0)

- ffdshow (I use: ffdshow_rev967_20070226_xxl.exe)

I have configured it as follows..."
- so I assumed you do not have anything else.
Also, you stated:
"??? streaming works at 100%... even with DS ... that's why I have installed Quicktime Alternative even though you wouldn't need it if you follow the setup below..." - the way I read this sentence it means that I do not need QT even for streaming if I follow your setup. Playing streaming .mov via QT components (while perfectly fine for most of the people) is not what we are trying to solve (I stated some reasons it may not be a good option for some setuos earlier).
And finally "as stated there is a difference between files on your HD and streaming (apple) mov files..." - well, thanks for pointing out the obvious.... The question is why there's a difference, why filters playing local files are not enough for playing streamed content.

[sillKotscha]

The question is why there's a difference, why filters playing local files are not enough for playing streamed content.

because on locally stored files the filters can build a "filter graph", they are able to connect to the corresponding splitter/filter...

while for streaming... your locally stored filters don't know where to connect - there is a need for some streaming components - as installed by QT/ QTA...

and what I meant with "streaming works, even with DS" was: I have set up everything for DS but because of installed QTA I'm able to play streamable files as well, even though everything is set up for DS :)

[jmnk]

because on locally stored files the filters can build a "filter graph", they are able to connect to the corresponding splitter/filter...

while for streaming... your locally stored filters don't know where to connect - there is a need for some streaming components - as installed by QT/ QTA...

and what I meant with "streaming works, even with DS" was: I have set up everything for DS but because of installed QTA I'm able to play streamable files as well, even though everything is set up for DS :)
Well, I can't completely agree with that either. There are some streams that can be opened via DS (no QT). So it's not like DS filters are completely clueless about reading from http streams. But maybe you are on to something when saying "don't know where to connect". How to make them know? After all, I think, the stream being delivered via http is probably buffered as a temp file somewhere - could the filters just read from that temp file?

[kikker]

Take one that streams just fine and one that doesn't. Next, download both of those streams in their entirety. Then, cut both files at about 1/10th from the beginning in your favorite editor.

Check to see if the resultant files then play locally. If the same holds true that the one which streams well also plays locally with its hind cut off, then you can rule out any transport streaming problems. And, with a graph, you can see potentially see where along the DS chain the one that failed to stream fails locally (without its tail of course).

:helpful: