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Dot50Cal
16th January 2007, 08:19
I had my eyes set on the Decklink HD Extreme for a while, but the lack of 480p is killing me. I then turned my sights onto their Intensity (HDMI capture) but that too fell short when I realized my sources are HDCP.

So I require a capture card that:
-Captures 480i 480p 720p 1080i 1080p
-Accepts component input (adapters are fine)

Bonuses:
-Has a form of A/V Sync
-Captures Audio

I appreciate any help you guys can give, I have been holding off for over a year now til more information came out on the source's Id be capturing from and I'm really anxious to buy this asap. I realize this will cost in the region of $1000, that is fine with me.

Thanks!

chipzoller
17th January 2007, 18:34
ATI 650 Theater Pro, but I'm not positive that it captures 1080.

Dot50Cal
17th January 2007, 23:04
Isnt that just for capturing through coaxial inputs? Im looking to capture video game consoles. So preferably it would need Component Input.

chipzoller
17th January 2007, 23:25
It can do that via a break-out box or a multi-input dongle. Component and S-Video.

Dot50Cal
18th January 2007, 05:47
Its s-video or composite though, so it wont capture HD off a console:

http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/screen_shot_images/234/202871234_002.jpg

Blue_MiSfit
23rd January 2007, 08:12
Right. I don't know of any component video capture cards that can do HD for under ~$800

SturmMD
25th January 2007, 00:37
I had tried to work out a solution when I was deciding whether I wanted component capture capabilities.

Here's what I figured might work,
1) BlackMagic Intensity HDMI PCIexpress capture card
2) Gefen Component with Audio to HDMI converter
3) 3+ hard-drives in a raid-0 setup capable of 119+MB/s as required for capturing

sidenotes: assuming gefen converter doesn't add hdcp, blackmagic cant capture 1080p, for simultaneously watching on a tv the component signal will need to be split (more complicated than y-cables) or using the hdmi pass-through on the capture card.

Dot50Cal
25th January 2007, 01:40
Also remember with the Intensity, the PS3 has HDCP required when using HDMI. So since the Intensity cant do HDCP, it wont work.

I've found a not very well known Japanese company that has a card which captures most of what I need. So I think Im going that route. I hear the Decklink HD Extreme has some bleeding issues ;\

easy2Bcheesy
30th January 2007, 08:04
More than that I discovered today that hte Intensity only supports YPrPb 4:2:2 output from an HDMI device. Even if you defeated HDCP on the PS3, you would still be attempting to capture 24-bit RGB. The Intensity won't work.

The only 480p capture card I am aware of is the Holograph 3D and that hasn't been made for a few years now.

Revgen
4th February 2007, 22:11
@ DotCal50

The only one I know that does this is the Xena capture card. It costs about $1700 the last I checked.

http://www.aja.com/html/products_windows_xena.html

Seraphic-
21st February 2007, 07:28
Also remember with the Intensity, the PS3 has HDCP required when using HDMI. So since the Intensity cant do HDCP, it wont work.

I've found a not very well known Japanese company that has a card which captures most of what I need. So I think Im going that route. I hear the Decklink HD Extreme has some bleeding issues ;\

Hi,

Could I please have a link to the website for that card or its name? I'm interested in it as well for HD capture at 480p.

Thanks

edwinbradford
23rd March 2007, 00:31
The company is called Earthsoft and it's the PV3 http://earthsoft.jp/release/PV3.html. There's a video on YouTube if you do a search for PV3 which shows how it sells out, I think about 400 copies, in 1 minute.

However if you do a google and limit your results to Japanese pages you come across this, the Sony RDZ-D800 http://kilinbox.net/index.php?news=1637&diary=20061228. You can translate any of these pages using Google's language tools. If I'm not mistaken, although getting hold of a PV3 is problematic and it's use would require figuring out support in Japanese, the RDZ-D800 is on sale now in Japan and seems to use the PV3 as it's capture device? So I wonder if it supports 480p?

Fudoh
18th April 2007, 13:25
BlackMagic Design just introduced the Intensity Pro with Component HD input/output in addition to the HDMI ports - very nice ! And at $349 still priced very reasonable, especially if you consider how hard it is to get ahold of a PV3 card.

Fudoh

Seraphic-
18th April 2007, 22:23
Here is a link to the above card.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

However, I wonder if the PS2 would find it acceptable for 480p/16:9 progressive scan. PS2 does some checking before it is enabled from the console.

Fudoh
18th April 2007, 22:28
The card probably won't do 480p, just 480i, 720p and 1080i.

However the PS2 won't check anything. You can enable 480p in a game if it's supported no matter if your display/capture card can display it.

And you should think of your output signal. You would probably end up with a 30fps progressive AVI or a 60field interlaced MPEG2 stream (for a DVD), so you would capture 480p60 and downscale it anyway (to 480p30 or 480i60), so for me 480i/720p/1080p is already a pretty good deal for $349.

BlackSharkfr
24th April 2007, 12:52
If the card can digitalise 1080i and 720p signals, there's no reason it wouldn't be able to digitalise 480i or 480p. But the question is how would the driver react when recieving an unknown signal.
It would probably just do the same as my pinnacle studio 500pci : it wouldn't understand the signal, you'd maybe get sime image b&w or distorted or whatever it can be and the card would probably get unstable.

I seriously hesitate buying one of those but since i play imported games on pal consoles (which gives weired hybrid ntsc resolution & frequencies with pal color signals or something like that) i really need to be sure the driver is flexible enough. Or is BlackMagic-Design accepting to do patches when just a small group of users (from the other side of the ocean) are asking for some stuff nobody else has even heard about ?

edwinbradford
24th April 2007, 19:13
I'm afraid Fudoh is probably correct, it's unlikely to do 480p, I emailed Blackmagic a month back and they confirmed it does not support 480p, I doubt whether that has changed as it's still not itemised in their tech. specs.

easy2Bcheesy
5th May 2007, 21:02
I have an Intensity and it definitely does not support 480p. A curious omission.

The obvious solution to the OP's question is a Xena AJA LHe.

Pope Flick
1st June 2007, 18:23
I have an Intensity and it definitely does not support 480p. A curious omission.

The obvious solution to the OP's question is a Xena AJA LHe.

Hi - neither of these cards support 480p.

I am wondering if anyone thinks this card might, as I suspect it does, but not as video rather as 30 jpegs/second.

http://www.ncast.net/DigiCaptureCard.html

Any ideas?

ajp_anton
12th August 2007, 21:28
I'm also looking for a way to capture 480p at 60fps (59.94?) via component.
I don't care how it's done, via converters or directly into a PCI(e) card, as long as i get 720x480 at 60fps into my computer.

Any ideas?

Dot50Cal
13th August 2007, 09:01
I'm also looking for a way to capture 480p at 60fps (59.94?) via component.
I don't care how it's done, via converters or directly into a PCI(e) card, as long as i get 720x480 at 60fps into my computer.

Any ideas?

Earthsoft PV3. The company that sold it is Japanese but they are no longer making the card. You'll also need a "D" connector to component adapter and a knowledge of the Japanese language to use the software.

Seraphic-
13th August 2007, 09:19
Well yeah, there was the Earthsoft PV3 and the Holo3dGraph II that did 480p (from what I understand) but both are no longer for sale v.i retail.

Seraphic-
14th August 2007, 01:33
While not a capture card, there is also the Japanese XRGB-3 (http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-3.htm) that from what I understand, accepts 480p v.i "D" connector.

However, I'm not sure if it is possible to record the video as it seems to be more for viewing/upscaling. Don't know that much about the unit itself (need to do some more research).

Translated Text from above linked page:

XRGB-3, NTSC image signal such as image equipment and game machine for home (video image and S terminal image) and, is the rise [sukiyankonbata] unit which indicates image of the D terminal in personal computer private display.

 By the fact that you use the knitting machine, only the personal computer picture it is possible to indicate the image of the image equipment and the game machine for home in the display which cannot be indicated. In addition, because the knitting machine has child picture display function, while looking at the personal computer picture, also it is possible to look at video image and the like on the child picture.

* To correspond to also hi-vision image, even in liquid crystal display indicatory possibility.

Because it is the D4 input terminal attachment, the image of 525i, 525p, 1125i and 750p input possibility.

* Digital RGB (DVI-D), analog RGB (15 pins) with in display connected possibility.

It corresponds to the liquid crystal and picture tube display of the *1024768/12801024/16001200 dot.

* On personal computer picture video image and the like child picture indicatory possibility.

* Full RGB processing (24bit), full digital processing.

With 3 dimensional digital Y/C separation circuit loading, decreasing [nijimi] of video image.

* NTSC image signal 4 time over sampling

* Loading numerous picture quality adjustment function. For example with gamma revision, also the part where the picture is dim is bright indicatory possibility.

* Because it is remote control attachment, power source on, input change and picture adjustment from the place where it is far are possible.

* Through it is possible in display to output personal computer image.

It corresponds to the firmware update by the USB terminal.

signal
14th August 2007, 08:44
The XRGB-3 is a scan converter only device.

The XRGB-3 is a VGA upscan box. It takes an input in the form of S-Video, Component, Composite, Japanese D4 or Japanese RGB, and converts it to VGA for use on a standard computer monitor. Apparently the results are usually higher quality than the game looked in the first place on the TV.

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-86-49-en-15-upscan+converter-70-1ic5.html

Seraphic-
14th August 2007, 09:25
I also just found THIS (http://www.conexant.com/servlets/DownloadServlet/PBR-200865-002.pdf?docid=866&revid=2) while searching google for 480p capture cards. It's called the Conexant CX23885 video/audio chip and it seems that the Leadtek Winfast PxTV1200 (http://www.leadtek.com/eng/tv_tuner/specification.asp?pronameid=355&lineid=6&act=2) uses the chip with their tv-tuner/capture card. Not sure if anyone has heard of this or know other cards that use this chip-set, but it's something to look into. I can't locate specific capture specs for the Winfast at the moment, but if anyone finds more info be sure to post it. :D

CX23885 specifications: 480i YPrPb, 480p YPrPb, 720p YPrPb, 1080i YPrPb (view below image for the rest)

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/8915/untitled2os6.th.jpg (http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled2os6.jpg)

ajp_anton
14th August 2007, 21:31
Just sent an email to Leadtek asking about 480p and 720p on that card.

Seraphic-
14th August 2007, 21:45
Just sent an email to Leadtek asking about 480p and 720p on that card.

I sent one last night but have gotten no reply yet. Let me know if you get one though.

ajp_anton
15th August 2007, 16:25
Dear Sir,

Good day!

PxTV1200 just support below of 480i resolution only.

Provide you to consult.

Best Regards

Leadtek Service

Could it still be possible with some sort of hack? I mean, the CX23885 should still support it...?

Blue_MiSfit
15th August 2007, 19:25
<3 the engrish on that :)

Hopefully the necessary other components besides the chipset are in place to allow 720p / 1080i capture. Doubtful though.. :)

~MiSfit

Seraphic-
15th August 2007, 20:33
Relpy #1
Dear Sir,

Good day!

You mean when it capture from Video-in ?

Yes, it is.

Best Regards

Leadtek Service

Reply #2
Dear Sir,

Good day!

We are promise 480i now.

You can consult PXPVR2200 ( http://www.leadtek.com.tw/eng/tv_tuner/overview.asp?lineid=6&pronameid=351).

Best Regadrs

Leadtek Service

That is what I received to my 480p question... which is odd because the chip does support 480p.

Damn it, why is 480p capture so hard to find? It's a worldwide government conspiracy I tell you!

Could it still be possible with some sort of hack? I mean, the CX23885 should still support it...?

It might be in the card's install drivers...?

Seraphic-
15th August 2007, 23:35
Have some good information to report! :)

After calling several locations I was able to talk a few people at Conexant about the CX23885.

The chip itself is band new (released this year) and basically, they don't build cards themselves. They build the chip-set and allow companies to purchase it and use in their end product (whatever that may be ). Also, (from what the person I talked to understands) these companies can pick and choose what features to allow the chip to do. (i.e - even though the chip supports "480i YPrPb, 480p YPrPb, 720p YPrPb, 1080i YPrPb" a company can only allow it to support 480i)

The woman I spoke to also said that the following companies have purchased the CX23885 chip (but she was not sure for what use): hauppauge digital | ait | dtr electronics | unitronic

Here are the tech line phone numbers if anyone wants to call and try and get more information: 856-608-1389 : 951-817-9000
You can also try their contact page HERE (http://www.conexant.com/contact.html) and call other locations (but when I called, they gave me the two above numbers)

Let's hope, that with some investigating, we can locate a card that supports at least 480p. Try contacting the companies I listed about the CX23885 and see if it's for a capture card.

ajp_anton
16th August 2007, 01:25
I may send an email to those tomorrow, if you aren't already doing that.

Btw, what about CX23886/7/8?
The conexant website only has info about 5 and very little about 7.

Seraphic-
16th August 2007, 02:48
I may send an email to those tomorrow, if you aren't already doing that.

Btw, what about CX23886/7/8?
The conexant website only has info about 5 and very little about 7.

I sent one to Hauppauge Digital and another back to Leadtek (to get some clarification). As for the CX23886/7/8, no, I really don't know too much about those chips. Is there a specification .pdf?

Seraphic-
21st August 2007, 22:03
I received no reply from Hauppauge Digital about the CX23885.

Anyway, does anyone know what the difference between the Earthsoft PV3 Revision A and B is along with the difference between the Red vs Green version of the card?

Dot50Cal
21st August 2007, 22:09
I received no reply from Hauppauge Digital about the CX23885.

Anyway, does anyone know what the difference between the Earthsoft PV3 Revision A and B is along with the difference between the Red vs Green version of the card?

rev a0: original
rev a1: red board. regulators changed from variable to fixed-type. saved 4 resistors.

revb: removed cut in the pci slot, making it fixed at 32bit pci (previous revision were "supposedly" fittable in 64bit slot without actually using 64bits). removed one resistor network. removed 6 resistors. removed 2 capacitors.

These are just layout/design changes. There are no hardware changes.

You can look here for specific changes:
http://earthsoft.jp/PV3/tech-pcb-revision.html

Info thanks to Timecop at AVS Forum.

Seraphic-
21st August 2007, 22:37
Found a capture card that allows for 480p. It's called the "Digital Rapids DRC-1000" and costs about $2,000... :p

rev a0: original
rev a1: red board. regulators changed from variable to fixed-type. saved 4 resistors.

revb: removed cut in the pci slot, making it fixed at 32bit pci (previous revision were "supposedly" fittable in 64bit slot without actually using 64bits). removed one resistor network. removed 6 resistors. removed 2 capacitors.

These are just layout/design changes. There are no hardware changes.

You can look here for specific changes:
http://earthsoft.jp/PV3/tech-pcb-revision.html

Info thanks to Timecop at AVS Forum.

Thanks for the reply, Dot50Cal.

Did you ever own one and do you know if it accepts RGB or YCbCr/YPbPr?

Also, was the EarthSoft PV3 only sold on their official website?

Seraphic-
22nd August 2007, 23:24
Did anyone see that EarthSoft (http://earthsoft.jp/PV4/tech-specification.html) is releasing a PV4 sometime in September (for about 18,800 Yen or $164 USD)? From what I understand, it offers the same features of the PV3, but has design changes that allow for a lower price. About 100-200 will be released each month and will not doubt sell out within minutes. I'm still going to try and get one though.

Also, I talked to someone that owns a PV3. It seems the card doesn't offer "lossless" capture, but instead uses a proprietary DV codec that is "lossy" (which is kind of a let down). Can anyone confirm this? (this might be changed on the PV4 if true) Also, the PV4 still uses an 8-Bit DAC. Here is a link to the chip-set: HERE (http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0%2C2877%2CAD9980%2C00.html).

Dot50Cal
23rd August 2007, 04:46
I own one right now :) Im not entirely sure what it accepts to be honest. All I know is that you will need a Japanese "D" cable to component (preferably female, but that might be hard to come by). EDIT: It accepts YCbCr/YPbPr.

Yep, PV3 was only sold on the website and ALWAYS sold out of their 500# stock within 1 minute of sale.

Yes, PV3 uses its own codec by default. Some guys have found a way to get the signal being sent to the PV3 monitor app though into an Avisynth script, but the image appears washed out for me, but that could be because I am putting the AVS script into VirtualDub. I can get some captures of lossless vs their codec, give me a little bit. Its quite efficient and I dont think you'd notice much difference to be honest.

If you take pictures using the PV3 app, the pictures are lossless but there are no options to change the codec in the PV3 app. But like I said some guys got the PV3 source to display using a .avs script, Im just not sure how I can use that to capture besides an app like Virtualdub, and that just gives a washed out image.

Some other things to take into consideration:

It can capture 1080p content, it just captures at 960x1080.

If you have a 7.1 setup (or possibly just more than 2 speakers) any audio played through your speakers will mess up a bit (crackle, etc) unless you set your windows speaker settings to 2 speakers. This isnt recorded, but if you want to play the game live and listen its best to do this.

It captures Optical Audio only. There are no options to record from any source other than the PV3 itself. It only captures 2 channel stereo audio.

The application is in Japanese Kanji. You will need to fiddle around to get a good handle on things, unless you are lucky enough to have a friend who can speak Japanese. I do, and had him translate it for me, then I used Resource Hacker to fill in the spots.


Edit
As promised, heres a comparison:

This is a direct capture using the PV3 app's screenshot function. As far as I can tell, this produces a "lossless" image direct from the source.
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/ps3-screencapture.png

This is a screen capture off a short video I recorded of the same scene with the PV3's codec.
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/ps3-videocapture.png

Im not sure if this is accurate but you can see the difference in size, with the increase in compression comes lower filesize. Though Im not sure if you can equate PNG compression to actual video compression?

And as I was speaking about, there is a way to get the PV3's source image into other apps and record to lossless. Though, you need to have the PV3 app open itself. This might be the cause of the lack of contrast and such. Maybe someone more educated on that can compare and give me some tips? I'm willing to follow if you guys can suggest tips to fix this. Also do note that you lose 10 pixels in width using this for some reason.
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/ps3-avssource.png

Heres another comparison. This is a super fast 60 fps game, and when I took the screen capture while recording the video stuttered a bit, so its not an exact 1:1 matchup but it serves its purpose :)

Direct screenshot from PV3 source:
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/ssd-lossless.png

Screenshot of the video recording (compressed with PV3's codec):
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/ssd-lossy.png

If anyones interested, a 720p version of this game is available from me on Stage6. Though be warned, Divx wreaked hell on the games compression. Its a shadow of its former self:
http://stage6.divx.com/user/Dot50Cal/video/1553128/Super-Stardust-HD-(PS3)-First-3-levels-720p-HD

Seraphic-
23rd August 2007, 12:20
Looks good, damn good... :)

So how are you hooking up your PS3 to the PV3? Component to D-Terminal or a full PS3 D-Terminal Cable?

My sound card has a Analog/SPDIF in and I've been using that for awhile now with my component PS2 gaming captures, but at 480i (lol).

One bad thing about the PV3/PV4 is it only takes SPDIF audio and PS1 games don't output SPDIF, just analog (for now, I would be using this for upscaling PS1/PS2 games). Another is that it only allows for 720x480i/p. The PS2's 4:3 mode is 640x480 and it's 16:9 mode is 640x480 Anamorphic. (I can always resize the 4:3 though and upscale the 16:9)

I was thinking of building a new quad core system and buying a PV3 Rev B or a PV4 (if I can get), along with a DeckLink HD Extreme or DeckLink HD Pro 4:4:4. I doubt my current AMD 64 4000+ (single core) would be able to take those crazy HD captures. What are you system specs as of now? Any capture issues with 720p/1080i/p captures? (frame-rate, audio/video sync etc)

Also, ever find a use for that Intensity Pro?

Dot50Cal
24th August 2007, 01:33
Im using a component cable, but the thought never even occured to me to use a D-Terminal Cable :) Ill have to track one of those down to see if it makes a difference. The PS3's Component Out (analog out as they call it) is pretty poor though compared to other consoles.

You can always get an RCA/PHONO to SPDIF converter box, I did so I can capture from older consoles. Though some have issues, like the Sega Saturn when using SCART (I also purchased an SCART > Component box).

I have a 4800+ X2 (Dual Core), 2GB Ram (You'll need a lot for editing in avisynth). Their codec compresses on the fly, so you'll need a beefy CPU :)

No issues with audio sync, this thing is great :) Though I assume you might run into trouble if your system isnt able to keep up.

My friend has the Intensity Pro, Its good he says, but their capture software looks like crap. Its just one giant record button lol. Ill see if I can get some more info about it though for you. I do recall him saying there was noticable lag when playing games, a delay between his input and the actions on screen though. PV3 doesnt have that on my system.

Give me a little bit and Ill capture some Gears of War footage for you :) It really shows well :)

My capture setup:

For Component out native consoles, I use that. Heres the chain:
Component cable from the console is fed into my Radio Shack 4 way signal amplifier. From there the signal is fed out a JVC Component to D-Terminal cable and into the card.

I bought the Radio Shack amp before I got the card, expecting the software to be lacking fullscreen while recording, etc etc, however its pretty good software which can go fullscreen while recording a-ok.

For older consoles, I use RGB Scart, but I convert the SCART to component with a box. Since most old consoles dont do SPDIF, I bought a converter for that as well. It was pretty hard to find though.

JVC Cable - http://www.jvcservice.com/store/ProductDetail.asp?part=QAM0465-001
Analog to SPDIF - http://www.sys-concept.com/Analog_to_Digital_Converter.htm

Seraphic-
26th August 2007, 06:28
Yeah, they sell Playstation 3 D-Terminal Cables in Japan, but Play-Asia them too. They offer two versions, but not sure what one would offer a better signal.

Sony D-Terminal Cable (http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-2bed-71-n-49-en-84-j-70-1pn5.html) and Hori D Terminal Cable (http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-2bed-71-n-49-en-84-j-70-1o25.html)

Agreed, I would have to get something like an "Analog-to-Digital Converter" for the Playstation 1 game audio. Do you remember the price of that?

My current system has 2GB ram and a 250GB SataII HDD, but again, my cpu is only single core @ 2.4 Ghz (AMD 64 4000+)

What type/size hard drive do you have? Also, how large are the captured video files per minute? Like for 480p/720p/1080i/p.

As for your capture setup it looks good. However, you should try to use a direct connection. The reason being that using lots of splitters and converters will degrade the signal. Also, so you got the signal amplifier before the PV and don't need it? Or The signal amplifier allows the PV to capture full screen?

Ordered a PS3 the other day and I'm going to get one of those PS3 D-Terminal cables if I can get a hold of a PV card.

You have a chance to record those Gears of War videos?

Dot50Cal
27th August 2007, 01:05
Yep, Im tracking down a cable now ;) Most likely Ill go with the official one since 3rd party ones have tended to be worse in my experience.

I think it was around 50 dollars, its for sale on that site I linked to somewhere.

I have a 600GB HDD I record to. Its two 300GB Maxtor's raided together with SATA. 7L300S0 are their model numbers.

A really fast paced shooter game in 720p (Super Stardust HD) is around 31GB for 25 minutes of footage. This will of course vary greatly.

I tried capturing some Gears footage but to compress it to a decent size it looks like crap. Plus its been ages since I played the game and Im terribly rusty. Ill see if I can capture another game tonight. I've been a bit busy :P

Ill PM you the link when its uploaded. (You'll need an x264 decoder installed).

>>Also, so you got the signal amplifier before the PV and don't need it? Or The signal amplifier allows the PV to capture full screen?

I dont need it, Passing the cables through a female to female RCA jack is enough, though I still use it just incase I need to send the signal to another television or something.

Dot50Cal
27th August 2007, 01:47
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/GTHD%20Final.mp4

Someones replay of GTHD. I captured at 1080p (960x1080) and resized to 720p size. For GTHD it actually looks better than native 720p, since you get odd scaling issues with far away backgrounds.

Seraphic-
27th August 2007, 02:48
Using a direct D-Terminal connection should improve the picture a fair amount. Let me know if you find a better price for official Sony version though. Also, be sure to find out if they are the PS2 or PS3 edition before you buy. It seems both work with both systems, however, it would be better to get one designed for PS3, rather then one designed for the PS2, and works with the PS3.

How much cache do your hard drives have and what raid setup are you using? And 31GB isn't too bad for 25 minutes, I thought it larger in fact.

Don't worry about the GoW. Just wanted to get some more samples to view the picture quality.

That video is awesome, looks great. :D

What x264 encoder are you using? I've always had a hard time when trying to use them. lol.

Also, about your friend's Intensity Pro, does that work with the PS3 when using HDMI? Or is HDMI gaming on the PS3 encrypted (i.e, won't display video/audio)?

Dot50Cal
27th August 2007, 06:47
16MB cache on the HDD's

I use Megui ;) It takes a really long time to encode even with a top of the line system but the results cant be argued with.

No, the Intensity Pro doesnt do HDCP and the PS3 requires it.

Seraphic-
27th August 2007, 06:53
Yeah, thought it wouldn't work. Don't we all love DRM? :D

Anyway, I had a hard time with Megui. I could never get audio to be encoded with my video and the final video output always came out as a REALLY low bit-rate. (even when using HQ/Insane settings)

Dot50Cal
27th August 2007, 07:02
Well, you do the audio seperate and then mux them together with the Tools menu ;) I use my own custom settings, based off the recommended ones when you get the tooltips.

Also Im not sure how big of a difference Ill see using a direct D-Terminal cable. Its been my experience that a few links in the chain like I have now dont really do significant damage to the singal. That should especially be negated since Im using an AMP powered signal splitter, but Ill give it a go and report the results ;)

jmac698
5th September 2007, 02:16
Just want to mention that any capture card can do 480p from component, as long as you can play the exact video in 3 passes. I've done it here.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=107923&highlight=component4all

Dot50Cal
10th September 2007, 20:51
Got the PS3 D-Terminal cable in. The difference is slight, but its there. 1.90MB pics:

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/D-term.png

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/comp.png

Seraphic-
13th September 2007, 14:59
Got the PS3 D-Terminal cable in. The difference is slight, but its there. 1.90MB pics:

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/D-term.png

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/comp.png

The big difference I see is that the comp image looks brighter, but in terms of quality, the D-term looks more detailed.

What firmware your PS3 running? Just got mine today and it came with 1.51.

On another note, the PV4 was released few days ago. People buying them and reselling for about 2x...:mad:

Dot50Cal
14th September 2007, 02:19
The latest, always. You need to upgrade when a new one is released or you cant use any online features. 1.93 was just released which fixes some connection issues in 1.92.

Dot50Cal
29th September 2007, 13:08
Just thought I mentioned this. Looking further into it, it seems the amp puts a "wave" pattern into the signal which is pretty distracting. Ill most likely be removing it since Im not splitting the signal anyway. Ill just go with some female phono plugs.

Also, Ill be getting XBOX 360 and Wii D-Terminal Cables so I'll post some shots up of the differences with them.

Side note: PSP slim's video out (480p only for games) is quite nice :)

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/psp1.png

I also have some 480p Wii shots that a user was asking me for, so if anyone is interested they are here:
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/480p.rar

Seraphic-
30th September 2007, 03:44
What "amp" are you talking about? Not sure what you mean.

Yeah, I picked up PSP, PS3 and Xbox 360 D-Terminal cables and PS3/360 Fiber Optic audio cables as well. But I won't be buying a 360 until the game I'm looking for is released into the market. There are just too many hardware problems with the system right now as they overheat and die.

What slim model did you order? My one from Japan is still on order as its out of stock. So I take it the video out feature works well? As you know it outputs a 720x480 picture with the game in a letter-box 480x272. Sound over-all good? I also heard that the aspect ratio is somewhat off when using video out.

Also Dot50Cal, do you live in the U.S? There is a slight power difference between U.S and Japan, so I was somewhat concerned about using a Japanese hardware card in a U.S system. But if you are, it would seem like there won't be a problem. And do you use a RAID 0 or 5 for your setup?

The Earthsoft PV4 is still out of stock throughout Japan, but I found another card that allows for the same capture of 480i/p, 720p, 1080i and also has lossless capture codec support. Don't have it yet, but I'll post my results when it arrives.

djpubba
2nd November 2007, 01:24
I also just found THIS (http://www.conexant.com/servlets/DownloadServlet/PBR-200865-002.pdf?docid=866&revid=2) while searching google for 480p capture cards. It's called the Conexant CX23885 video/audio chip and it seems that the Leadtek Winfast PxTV1200 (http://www.leadtek.com/eng/tv_tuner/specification.asp?pronameid=355&lineid=6&act=2) uses the chip with their tv-tuner/capture card. Not sure if anyone has heard of this or know other cards that use this chip-set, but it's something to look into. I can't locate specific capture specs for the Winfast at the moment, but if anyone finds more info be sure to post it. :D

CX23885 specifications: 480i YPrPb, 480p YPrPb, 720p YPrPb, 1080i YPrPb (view below image for the rest)

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/8915/untitled2os6.th.jpg (http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled2os6.jpg)

I've been trying to find a 480p capture solution and bought a Winfast PxTV1200 for $55 hoping it would work. It does not. It does 480i only. I tried with VitrualDub, dscaler and the oem software. No joy.

SeanTek
2nd November 2007, 05:01
Hi All,

I have been following this thread for a long time now, and think that I have finally found the right card. While I was in Japan this summer I picked up two SKnet Monster X cards:
http://www.sknet-web.co.jp/product/mhvx.html

http://www.sknet-web.co.jp/images/mhvx_s.jpg

The Monster X PCI Express internal card that captures up to 1920x1080 (480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i--1080p is not supported), along with stereo analog or S/PDIF, using a D-Terminal connector. In other words, it supports up to D4 (in D-Terminal speak). You can download the drivers and application software directly from SKnet.

According to sources that I found (and by inspection of the PCB), the card uses the Analog Devices AD9983A A/D converter. This converter appears to max out at 1080i, so 1080p is totally impossible. http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0%2C2877%2CAD9983A%2C00.html

It's too bad SKnet didn't shell out $1/unit more for the AD9984, as the AD9984 apparently goes to 1080p. Alas, we make do with what we can.

When I was in Japan I looked everywhere for a card, after trying the Blackmagic Intensity Pro in June (which did not work out as it only supports 480i, not 480p). As has been noted on this forum, the Earthsoft PV3 or PV4 are impossible to find. I checked out the Canopus HDRECS, but like the Intensity Pro, the HDRECS does not appear to support 480p. The HDRECS also costs around US$1000.

I am successfully using the Monster X to play Nintendo Wii, in 480p widescreen, on my 30" HP LP3065 monitor in Windows XP SP2 32-bit. The Monster X is specifically marketed to support playing of high-resolution game consoles such as Xbox, Xbox 360, GameCube, Wii, PlayStation 2 (PS2), and PlayStation 3 (PS3) on your computer monitor. They specifically tout PS3. Of course, you could also use this to capture video out of another computer if that computer is outputting component video, and you have a D Terminal connector.

If people want proof I can upload pictures. I found that the included Monster X software sort of dithered the onscreen image so that it looked like bad 16-bit or even 8-bit color about 95% of the time. However, I managed to get DScaler up and running with the card. I was using an nVidia 7600GT and am now using an 8600GTS, so I do not know if the bad dithering should be blamed on the Monster X drivers, DirectX, the Monster X software, or the video card driver. The bottom line, though, is that with DScaler (and maybe 5% of the time with the SKnet-provided application), the quality was pristine and amazing. Any questions? Has anyone else tried this card?

Ranguvar
2nd November 2007, 11:02
The HAVA Platinum HD will accept anywhere from 480i to 1080p component, pass it through to your TV, and downscale it to 480i and send it digitally through Ethernet.

So, no HD recording, but HD viewing and very good quality recording.

djpubba
17th November 2007, 01:08
Yes, PV3 uses its own codec by default. Some guys have found a way to get the signal being sent to the PV3 monitor app though into an Avisynth script, but the image appears washed out for me, but that could be because I am putting the AVS script into VirtualDub. I can get some captures of lossless vs their codec, give me a little bit. Its quite efficient and I dont think you'd notice much difference to be honest.


I picked up a PV4 recently. Can you explain further how/where to grab the stuff I need to take lossless screen? I seem to only be able to grab stills from a recorded dv movie, which is compressed with their proprietary codec.

Will the MonsterX card capture in a lossless format?

SeanTek
19th November 2007, 19:36
I wanted to provide an update on my Monster X experience. Yes, the Monster X will capture in a lossless format. With appropriate fiddling, the quality is really quite pristine.

My hard disk crashed so I had to reinstall Windows XP (32-bit). Incidentally, on the partition formerly known as "working OS installation," I was able to use DScaler with the Monster X card without a problem. However, I installed DScaler (both 4.15 and the experimental 4.16) after installing the Monster X drivers, and unfortunately, DScaler causes a STOP error of IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL when it switches to "composite video" (the component video input pin) on the Monster X.

Hope, however, is not lost. I found the following at karinto (かりんと!) http://karinto2.mine.nu/index.php?MonsterX

Apparently this poster has a Monster X and has done a lot of amazing work with this card! I tried using the MxCapture application posted there:
http://karinto2.mine.nu/index.php?MonsterXTOOL

And the Monster X is working beautifully with the tool. (I used the tool in conjunction with the Monster X Setting Utility to change the color balance.) I have not yet tried to capture, but MxCapture apparently supports capturing in a variety of formats and quality settings.

The MonsterXTOOL page also has a link to "64bit_test" drivers. Hooray--64-bit drivers! It says that the test version is unsupported, but the fact that they exist at all is encouraging. Does someone have Windows Vista 64-bit, and if so, can they test those drivers? I seriously doubt that they would work on Windows XP x64 as they are built with "Longhorn DDK Provider" in the resource description, but it's worth a try as well if anyone out there is willing to give it a shot.

Mysteriouskk
19th November 2007, 23:37
I wanted to provide an update on my Monster X experience. Yes, the Monster X will capture in a lossless format. With appropriate fiddling, the quality is really quite pristine.



How did you get your monster x running? I installed the drivers, program, etc, and all I'm seeing is static or a green screen when my xbox 360 is connected to my computer using the D-terminal cable. I've tried dscaler, mplayer classic, and they all do the same thing.

Thanks

ajp_anton
25th November 2007, 01:14
So does this Monster X really work (you had some problems after a re-install)?
I'd prefed capturing with VirtualDub, but as long as I can get lossless 480p and 720p I'm happy.

Does it do 60fps btw? <-important

And then there's also the D-terminal cable... why all these different cables

Dot50Cal
25th November 2007, 15:26
D-Terminal is the Japanese standard. Its Component video with a different connector.

Mysteriouskk
25th November 2007, 23:29
So does this Monster X really work (you had some problems after a re-install)?
I'd prefed capturing with VirtualDub, but as long as I can get lossless 480p and 720p I'm happy.

Does it do 60fps btw? <-important

And then there's also the D-terminal cable... why all these different cables

Yea, I got it to work. I'm now capturing at excellent quality. Check out my first post on http://www.cgaming.com

I compressed it quite a bit and I'm trying to get it smaller.

ajp_anton
26th November 2007, 06:12
That video is 30fps, encoded at 60fps, making every frame appear twice.

Mysteriouskk
26th November 2007, 07:53
That video is 30fps, encoded at 60fps, making every frame appear twice.

Really? how does that work?

Dot50Cal
26th November 2007, 12:49
Really? how does that work?

Not all games run at 60FPS. The great majority of console games are restricted to 30. You should really change the framerate if that is the case, you are making videos double the size they need to be.

If your card is anything like the pv3, it will record at 60 frames regardless of what the game runs at. Also, why are you limiting the horizontal width of the video on that page? Its 1000, which is throwing off the aspect ratio. And WMV inside an AVI? :(

Mysteriouskk
26th November 2007, 19:25
Not all games run at 60FPS. The great majority of console games are restricted to 30. You should really change the framerate if that is the case, you are making videos double the size they need to be.

If your card is anything like the pv3, it will record at 60 frames regardless of what the game runs at. Also, why are you limiting the horizontal width of the video on that page? Its 1000, which is throwing off the aspect ratio. And WMV inside an AVI? :(

Yea... still trying to figure out what to do to get it as small file size as possible. Do you have any recommendations or settings as to how I should do it?

ajp_anton
26th November 2007, 20:39
So can someone comfirm that this card really does 60fps (that video doesn't really proof anything) so I can start looking for someone who sells it =)

Mysteriouskk
26th November 2007, 21:25
So can someone comfirm that this card really does 60fps (that video doesn't really proof anything) so I can start looking for someone who sells it =)

Do you know a game that does 60 fps? Maybe I can try it later.

Mysteriouskk
26th November 2007, 21:48
What is the best way to go from MJPEG source to a small file size to post online? (1280x720)

Pope Flick
26th November 2007, 22:16
What is the best way to go from MJPEG source to a small file size to post online? (1280x720)

Unless REALLY necessary, skip the 100% size and output a 640x360. That'll help the file size straight away.

Mysteriouskk
27th November 2007, 01:38
Unless REALLY necessary, skip the 100% size and output a 640x360. That'll help the file size straight away.

I've gotten it around 0.3-0.4 KB/sec and it looks alright for 1280x720. I'm just wondering what is the way to encode the files and stuff. Apparently the video is 30 fps or something and the wmv and avi thing is messed up. How would I fix it?

Pope Flick
27th November 2007, 20:30
I've gotten it around 0.3-0.4 KB/sec and it looks alright for 1280x720. I'm just wondering what is the way to encode the files and stuff. Apparently the video is 30 fps or something and the wmv and avi thing is messed up. How would I fix it?

Time out. I'm not sure what that other guy was referring to, but if you captured that off a XBox 360 in its 720p format then you should be capturing at 59.94 fps, assuming your card captures at a default that matches the signal the 360 put out. If you can tweak the cframe rate you can capture at, then perhaps its different.

If I were you, and continue to intend to use youtube to host, I'd do your export at 30 fps, then send that file to youtube, where it would convert to 30 fps anyways, if I'm not mistaken. Better for you to do that work and create a file that's as close to 100MB as possible (youtube's non-Director limit) to send to them.

Blue_MiSfit
27th November 2007, 21:16
Better for you to do that work and create a file that's as close to 100MB as possible (youtube's non-Director limit) to send to them.


Absolutely. I saw a guide somewhere on how to encode an FLV perfectly so that YouTube doesn't re-encode it. This alone will make a huge difference.

For such a large downsize, something like bicubic or spline resize would probably be ideal. IMO lanczos might introduce some haloing...

Also, your video will probably be VERY clean. I would expect little to no analog interference due to the usage of the D terminal. This may (surprisingly) be an issue for MPEG codecs, as they typically expect some noise / grain. You might need to add a bit of grain to it. Just an idea that I remember someone mentioning awhile back. There could be some noise in the chroma planes that a quick fft3dfilter(plane=3) might fix. Use fft3dgpu if you can, and tweak as you prefer obviously.

By doing such a drastic reduction in resolution, you will probably lose a lot of detail, but that's to be expected...

If not YouTube - I.E. DivX Stage 6 - then go balls to the walls. Preserve full resolution - 60fps (if it's not all dupes), and keep as much detail as possible. Good luck!

I've need to get one of these cards (and my Xbox 360 back). I've got Forza 2 videos to make!

~Misfit

Pope Flick
11th December 2007, 21:26
http://www.leadtek.com/eng/company/press_2.asp?newsid=652


This just announced by LeadTek, and claims 480p support.

Anyone use one of their cards and now if lossless might be an option? This release is very short on specifics, espcially price....

Mysteriouskk
15th December 2007, 23:55
How does this video look? (Burnout Paradise at 60fps)

http://www.cgaming.com/test/test03.html (14MB, 30 sec)

Dot50Cal
16th December 2007, 22:43
It looks nice, but why do you have the resolution set to 960x547 when the video is 1280x720?

Mysteriouskk
17th December 2007, 01:40
It fits on the screen for most users. If you want to see it 1280x720, you need to use the full screen.

ajp_anton
17th December 2007, 06:34
How does this video look? (Burnout Paradise at 60fps)

http://www.cgaming.com/test/test03.html (14MB, 30 sec)Still not 60fps...

Seraphic-
17th December 2007, 06:39
How does this video look? (Burnout Paradise at 60fps)

http://www.cgaming.com/test/test03.html (14MB, 30 sec)

Mysteriouskk, was that done with the MonsterX?

Also Dot50Cal, in your other post you talked about trying HDMI with PS3 and the BlackMagic Intensity card. As you said, there was no video and did not work due to HDCP. However, do you recall if the audio stream passed to the card and was able to be heard/recorded? I've been trying to find out if the PS3 used HDCP for audio stream as well for the video stream.

Thanks

squid_80
17th December 2007, 06:44
The Intensity only passes audio to the pc if there's video to pass as well. It kinda sucks because audio always drops out when there's a display mode change.

Seraphic-
17th December 2007, 06:50
The Intensity only passes audio to the pc if there's video to pass as well. It kinda sucks because audio always drops out when there's a display mode change.

Are you sure you can't pass the audio if there is no video? Even so, I think the Intensity only does two channel anyway. However, the main reason I was asking is to see if there was HDCP or anything over the HDMI audio stream for a HDMI surround sound audio receiver.

squid_80
17th December 2007, 07:28
It will pass it unmodified through to the HDMI-Out port on the card but there's no way to get the audio on the pc if there's no video signal (with the current drivers).

Mysteriouskk
17th December 2007, 07:54
Still not 60fps...

It is 60fps...?

Mysteriouskk, was that done with the MonsterX?

Also Dot50Cal, in your other post you talked about trying HDMI with PS3 and the BlackMagic Intensity card. As you said, there was no video and did not work due to HDCP. However, do you recall if the audio stream passed to the card and was able to be heard/recorded? I've been trying to find out if the PS3 used HDCP for audio stream as well for the video stream.

Thanks

Yea, it was done with the Monster X.

Does anyone know a good host or some site that can stream videos? I can't seem to find one fast enough to handle this kind of material. Something not too expensive or free would be great.

ajp_anton
17th December 2007, 17:11
It is 60fps...?The video is 60fps, yes, but there are only 30 "unique" frames per second. Which means you're wasting space making doublets of every frame.

Mysteriouskk
17th December 2007, 20:17
The video is 60fps, yes, but there are only 30 "unique" frames per second. Which means you're wasting space making doublets of every frame.

How can I check it?

and how come it looks not as smooth when I try to make it 30fps? Is there some other way to convert it to 30fps?

Pope Flick
17th December 2007, 22:40
How can I check it?

and how come it looks not as smooth when I try to make it 30fps? Is there some other way to convert it to 30fps?

I'm not sure what you and Anton are driving at.
If this capture took place at native frame rate for this game, it's a 59.94 frames per second video. PROGRESSIVE. So, he's not 'duplicating' any frames, that's the actual output of the game.

I do game capture work, and this is exactly how my native, uncompressed 720p footage looks. Without knowing your process after capture, I cannot say exactly how to convert to 30, but that's what you want to do: capture the video, then put it into an encoder and set the size settings, but make the output at 30fps. In part, because that's what many lcd computer displays run at, and it'll aid in their viewing.

As it is, your video is VERY dense and does seem to push my robust system - but it's a mac. :p

Mysteriouskk
18th December 2007, 02:23
I'm not sure what you and Anton are driving at.
If this capture took place at native frame rate for this game, it's a 59.94 frames per second video. PROGRESSIVE. So, he's not 'duplicating' any frames, that's the actual output of the game.

I do game capture work, and this is exactly how my native, uncompressed 720p footage looks. Without knowing your process after capture, I cannot say exactly how to convert to 30, but that's what you want to do: capture the video, then put it into an encoder and set the size settings, but make the output at 30fps. In part, because that's what many lcd computer displays run at, and it'll aid in their viewing.

As it is, your video is VERY dense and does seem to push my robust system - but it's a mac. :p
I wanted to either end at wmv or h264 files, so right now I'm just using wmvmuxer to create my wmv files. If it is 59.94fps original, should I make the final video at 29.97fps? I tried setting it to 29.97fps, but for some reason, the video always ends up at 59.94? Is there something wrong with wmvmuxer?

Pope Flick
19th December 2007, 03:06
I wanted to either end at wmv or h264 files, so right now I'm just using wmvmuxer to create my wmv files. If it is 59.94fps original, should I make the final video at 29.97fps? I tried setting it to 29.97fps, but for some reason, the video always ends up at 59.94? Is there something wrong with wmvmuxer?

Well, again, I'm on a Mac, but if your end use is wanting to post the vids while retaining the highest qality, I'd capture as close to lossless as possible, then export a 30fps Quicktime because that's -from what I understand- an excellent default setting for your average computer monitor.

Also, if you're not going to stream it full size, then export at 640x360 too, and keep it as close to that as possible. That will help quality as well, provided it isn't blown up on your webpage.

Mysteriouskk
19th December 2007, 05:10
Well, again, I'm on a Mac, but if your end use is wanting to post the vids while retaining the highest qality, I'd capture as close to lossless as possible, then export a 30fps Quicktime because that's -from what I understand- an excellent default setting for your average computer monitor.

Also, if you're not going to stream it full size, then export at 640x360 too, and keep it as close to that as possible. That will help quality as well, provided it isn't blown up on your webpage.

Yea, I'll keep that in mind.

ajp_anton
20th December 2007, 23:59
Now that you mentioned it, I also remember I noticed the video looked a bit too smooth for 30fps.
So I downloaded it again and opened it with virtualdub using avisynth's ffmpegsource. It made me feel really stupid. Yes, it really is 60fps.

MPC's frame-forward clearly showed 30fps doubled into 60fps. There was even some small differences in compression artifacts for the doublets, further proving the 30fps. It's always worked fine with other video formats.

I'm really sorry I didn't test it properly. Well, now you know you didn't do anything wrong, and I know what card to get =)

You're recording to uncompressed right?

And to whoever said LCDs run at 30fps: I've never seen LCDs at lower than 60Hz, like mine, and 60fps looks much better than 30fps.

Mysteriouskk
21st December 2007, 01:31
Now that you mentioned it, I also remember I noticed the video looked a bit too smooth for 30fps.
So I downloaded it again and opened it with virtualdub using avisynth's ffmpegsource. It made me feel really stupid. Yes, it really is 60fps.

MPC's frame-forward clearly showed 30fps doubled into 60fps. There was even some small differences in compression artifacts for the doublets, further proving the 30fps. It's always worked fine with other video formats.

I'm really sorry I didn't test it properly. Well, now you know you didn't do anything wrong, and I know what card to get =)

You're recording to uncompressed right?

And to whoever said LCDs run at 30fps: I've never seen LCDs at lower than 60Hz, like mine, and 60fps looks much better than 30fps.


I'm recording using the Pic Video MJPEG codec it comes with at the 18 level (out of 20). For some reason, I'm not sure how to capture completely uncompressed. I still need to figure some stuff out.

Blue_MiSfit
26th December 2007, 18:20
Try a lossless codec, like HuffYVU or Lagarith.

~MiSfit

News Bot
4th January 2008, 06:27
After reading through this topic, I see that the Monster X and the Earthsoft PV4 are basically the best in terms of HD capture cards.

Problem is, where does a mere non-Japanese mortal aquire them? ;_;

Mysteriouskk
5th January 2008, 01:49
After reading through this topic, I see that the Monster X and the Earthsoft PV4 are basically the best in terms of HD capture cards.

Problem is, where does a mere non-Japanese mortal aquire them? ;_;

Use Japan to US services such as Rinkya, to buy stuff straight from Japan. You basically choose what you want to buy using Yahoo Japan's Auction site and they will win the auction and ship the product to you. There is a small fee though.

News Bot
5th January 2008, 06:03
Yeah. Last time I heard it was $15. Not so bad, considering the end price of the overall product.

Thing is, i'm in the UK. ;_;

Mysteriouskk
5th January 2008, 08:26
Yeah. Last time I heard it was $15. Not so bad, considering the end price of the overall product.

Thing is, i'm in the UK. ;_;

Rinkya and other service shipping places do offer shipping around the world, so take a look at those options and see what fits you best.

News Bot
5th January 2008, 19:41
Ahh, I see. Thanks for the help. =D

Mysteriouskk, would you be able to capture a 480p game by any chance?

ajp_anton
7th January 2008, 16:53
I only have room for one card in my Media Center, and it needs DVBt. Been planning to move the power supply outside the case and somehow put a capture card where it was, but i just found the perfect card:

http://www.leadtek.com/eng/tv_tuner/overview.asp?lineid=6&pronameid=399

easy2Bcheesy
10th January 2008, 07:28
I'm recording using the Pic Video MJPEG codec it comes with at the 18 level (out of 20). For some reason, I'm not sure how to capture completely uncompressed. I still need to figure some stuff out.

Your Burnout video is a 60fps capture, but you're dropping a lot of frames. When I play it back I can see the "jumps" in the passing scenery which are not present in the game. It's blatant right from the beginning with the passing bus.

What tool are you using to capture? Can't you use VirtualDub?

News Bot
10th January 2008, 12:47
http://img167.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/8/2/7/9/keyboard0807-img600x450-1198645781p1010809.jpg

The four cards on the mag are basically the only four HD capture cards out right now. The PV4 and MonsterX are Component (or DVI, to be more accurate) while the Intensity and HDRECS are HDMI.

Does anyone know if the HDRECS suffers from the same problem as the Intensity?

Mysteriouskk
10th January 2008, 16:56
Your Burnout video is a 60fps capture, but you're dropping a lot of frames. When I play it back I can see the "jumps" in the passing scenery which are not present in the game. It's blatant right from the beginning with the passing bus.

What tool are you using to capture? Can't you use VirtualDub?

Does it happen after a couple of seconds in the video? It could be just that the harddrive is spinning up, so it only loses frames at the beginning of the capture.

ajp_anton
10th January 2008, 20:49
If the hard drive is spinning up, you
1) have set it to spin down in Windows (can't be done on OS-disc)
2) can't record anything to it before it's rotating at full speed
3) haven't been using the drive for a long time (in most cases setting the capture filename counts as using the drive)

I don't think the drive spinning up can be a problem. Also, there are random dropped/duplicate frames over the whole clip.

Mysteriouskk
11th January 2008, 03:21
If the hard drive is spinning up, you
1) have set it to spin down in Windows (can't be done on OS-disc)
2) can't record anything to it before it's rotating at full speed
3) haven't been using the drive for a long time (in most cases setting the capture filename counts as using the drive)

I don't think the drive spinning up can be a problem. Also, there are random dropped/duplicate frames over the whole clip.

Should I capture at a lower setting?

News Bot
11th January 2008, 17:45
Should I capture at a lower setting?

Do you have any USB devices, or any other external devices connected at all?

I drop frames like a complete sap when I have a USB device in. >_>

easy2Bcheesy
12th January 2008, 13:05
Should I capture at a lower setting?

That would most likely help. In truth 720p60 is very difficult to capture without recourse to a DirectShow encoder. Once again, are you using VirtualDub to capture? Does the MonsterX show up as a device within VirtualDub's capture core?

Jaxel
16th January 2008, 22:25
Hmm... well looking through this thread... I basically see 4 devices...

PV4, MonsterX, Intensity and HDRECS...

Would anyone please give me a straight answer on which one would work best for capturing video game content: such as Tekken Dark Ressurection, Virtua Fighter 5 or Soul Calibur 4? These are all 60fps core games.

From what I have read... PV4 and MonsterX can do D-Terminal, which is slightly better than Component. The Intensity is designed for HDMI, but it can do Component through a break-out box... So basically, all 3 of these devices can capture the PS3 (and possibly 360) video output in high definition...

So what is each devices' positives and negatives? Price? Where to buy? Hardware constraints? I assume all of them are PCIe.

easy2Bcheesy
17th January 2008, 18:36
I believe D-Terminal is essentially component with a different socket, so I'm struggling to imagine that the quality will be any better. For what it's worth, Intensity Pro's component support is OK, but its colour balance is incorrect and the picture is softer than HDMI.

That said, if your final deliverable video is going to be compressed to x264 or WMV (the only real choices for a 720p final deliverable asset), that might actually be a good thing.

Jaxel
18th January 2008, 06:16
Alright... then its confirmed that the Intensity can do Component video and that would be my best choice, right?

squid_80
18th January 2008, 06:32
Alright... then its confirmed that the Intensity can do Component video and that would be my best choice, right?
Intensity PRO can do component. Extra $100 over the regular Intensity.

easy2Bcheesy
18th January 2008, 08:53
So long as you don't want to capture 480p, Intensity Pro is fine.

Dot50Cal
18th January 2008, 14:09
The PV4 and MonsterX are Component (or DVI, to be more accurate) while the Intensity and HDRECS are HDMI.

They are D-Terminal, that is not DVI.

I believe D-Terminal is essentially component with a different socket, so I'm struggling to imagine that the quality will be any better.

Correct, I don't think there is any quality difference.

If anyone has the ability to capture HDMI out from a PS3 (be it debug, or using a device to get around HDCP) would you take some snapshots of PS1 and PS2 games? Im not sure what the problem is, but it appears the the PS3 has terrible video out while in these modes (compared to the PS2 or PS1). Im curious if its just the analog out or a system wide problem. Though I will say, it scales games much better, it just crushes blacks and distorts color (even when upscaling is off).

Jaxel
18th January 2008, 19:29
So long as you don't want to capture 480p, Intensity Pro is fine.

Wait... the Intensity Pro can do 720p... but it can't do 480p? WTF is that?

Dot50Cal
18th January 2008, 19:48
Wait... the Intensity Pro can do 720p... but it can't do 480p? WTF is that?

An all too common trend. If you want 480i 480p 720p 1080i and 1080p (limited to 960x1080 max) then you want to go with the PV3 / PV4. They are D-Terminal (Japanese equivalent of component). It captures all footage at 60FPS, so its up to you to convert the framerate appropriately should your game run less than that. You are however limited to using the application thats bundled with the card. Virtualdub and the like will not recognize it.

easy2Bcheesy
19th January 2008, 09:16
480p is not supported most likely because there are no 480p cameras - or at least none worth designing a capture card for. Blackmagic and the like will only dedicate engineering effort to products and functionality that will give them a significant marketshare, and I can't blame them.

Dot50Cal - I'm sure I've seen HDMI shots of PS2 via PS3 somewhere online on a forum posting or something. I'll look.

Seraphic-
19th January 2008, 18:20
An all too common trend. If you want 480i 480p 720p 1080i and 1080p (limited to 960x1080 max) then you want to go with the PV3 / PV4. They are D-Terminal (Japanese equivalent of component). It captures all footage at 60FPS, so its up to you to convert the framerate appropriately should your game run less than that. You are however limited to using the application thats bundled with the card. Virtualdub and the like will not recognize it.

Does the PV4 also do limited 1080p or is that just the PV3?

Now the real question is, what can you do with 960x1080p? After all, it's missing half of its resolution (960 missing). What can you do with a video missing so much? Must look quite distorted, no? And in that case, why not just 1080i? You would at least get the full 1920x1080 resolution and could deinterlace (although, it really isn't true "full" resolution... as 1080i would only be 540p).

Dot50Cal
19th January 2008, 19:22
I cant speak for the PV4, but the PV3 does "limited" 1080p.

De-interlacing is blah to me, I only capture progressive frames. Plus working with 1080p video with the bitrates/quality level I use just isn't an option really. Another thing to note is that most PS3 1080p games do not render at 1920x1080, rather 960x1080, so you'd basically be doing the scaling job yourself anyway. The only benefit to capturing full 1920x1080 frames would be that the PS3 has the ability to overlay HUD items after the image has been scaled properly, to mask the scaling.

Seraphic-
19th January 2008, 21:13
Good point, interlacing isn't really the ideal form for video as lots of issues with motion blur and what not. Most PS3 games are not even 1080p, just 720p.

Also, what revision of the PV3 do you have again? Anyone know if the PV4 does limited 1080p like the PV3?

Dot50Cal
19th January 2008, 22:08
I have the Red PCB, Revision B (final).

Seraphic-
19th January 2008, 22:21
Dot50Cal, have you ever heard anything about "hardware-assisted compression" for the PV3 or is it all done with the software codec? And is th process to take 960x1080 to 1920x1080 the same idea as taking 640x480 to anamorphic wides-creen of 853x480? I'm wondering because for games that are native 1080p, would be creating half the resolution from nothing (as half of it is not there). Interested in how that works.

You would think if the PV3 had 1080p support the PV4 would too. Wonder if it is worth the risk to buy a PV4 without knowing and just hope it has support as well. Anyway, was doing some searching using Google for 960x1080 support with the PV4 and came across an interesting article about this resolution.

Except, it will be pretty weak 1080 support with an odd and substandard result. The horizontal resolution will be worse than with 720p (960 across instead of 1280), and the images will be twice as blurry horizontally as vertically. 960x1080 is going to look worse than 1280x720 (although it’s certainly an improvement over having to drop back to 480i).

The point here is that horizontal scaling is easy because data is almost always output row by row. Vertical scaling is hard because you'd have to buffer entire rows of data and THEN double them or average between then.

The math is easy, too:

1280x720 = 921,600 pixels

1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels (125% more than 720p)

960x1080 = 1,036,800 pixels (12.5% more than 720p)

http://ozymandias.com/archive/2007/01/29/Bruce_2700_s-Thoughts-on-PS3-Horizontal-Scaling-in-SDK.aspx

http://img167.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/8/2/7/9/keyboard0807-img600x450-1198645781p1010809.jpg

The four cards on the mag are basically the only four HD capture cards out right now. The PV4 and MonsterX are Component (or DVI, to be more accurate) while the Intensity and HDRECS are HDMI.

Does anyone know if the HDRECS suffers from the same problem as the Intensity?

What problems are you talking about for the Intensity and HDRECS? Also, what are the capture specs for the HDRECS (720p max)? What is the price as well?

easy2Bcheesy
20th January 2008, 09:41
I would imagine the problem they are describing is no 480p support whatsoever.

The rest of the info is described elsewhere on this thread: 1080i max, $1000. So you're better off with Intensity Pro.

Seraphic-
20th January 2008, 10:18
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/GTHD%20Final.mp4

Someones replay of GTHD. I captured at 1080p (960x1080) and resized to 720p size. For GTHD it actually looks better than native 720p, since you get odd scaling issues with far away backgrounds.

Would you be able to scale this from 960x1080 to 1920x1080 or is going to 1280x720 the only way to do it?

easy2Bcheesy
20th January 2008, 11:12
You'd be able to scale it to whatever you want in VirtualDub, or better yet edit in 960x1080 and then encode your final WMV or MP4 to scale for you (this is a very good idea as it'll save bandwidth).

If you want to see a "best case scenario" of 960x1080, turn off 720p on your PS3 XMB, enable 1080p and load up Uncharted: Drake's Fortune. Most PS3 games will look a lot worse upscaled in this manner due to lack of anti-aliasing.

To be honest, 720p looks just as good and is a far more workable proposition for editing etc.

Dot50Cal
20th January 2008, 17:30
Would you be able to scale this from 960x1080 to 1920x1080 or is going to 1280x720 the only way to do it?

I will get some shots today, I no longer have the raw footage.

easy2Bcheesy
20th January 2008, 18:57
So PV3 is streaming 960x1080 at 60fps over a 32-bit PCI bus? Impressive.

Dot50Cal
21st January 2008, 01:23
Quite :)

I should have mentioned, for 1080i / 1080p capture you can modify the horizontal resolution if you desire. The max for 1080p capture is 960x1080, but the 1080i width can be modified to quite a few as you will see below.

*PLEASE DONT HOTLINK THESE*
480p:
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/480p.png

720p:
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/720p.png

1080i (960 width)
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/1080i(960).png

1080i(1280 width)
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/1080i(1280).png

1080i(1440 width)
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/1080i(1440).png

1080i(1600 width)
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/1080i(1600).png

1080i(1920 width)
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/1080i(1920).png

1080p(960 width)
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/1080p.png

I'll get some shots of a 1080p game (RR7) and a 1080p (1280x1080 - GT5 Prolouge) in a moment. Also I should note that GTHD runs 1440x1080, so seeing a benefit from capturing 960x1080 would see a boost in rendered pixels as opposed to capturing 720p.

Edit:
Ridge Racer (full 1920x1080 game)
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/RR

GT5 Prologue (1280x1080)
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/pv3/widths/GT5P

Do note that in order for me to get exact shots I had to record the footage, so there may be compression artifacts in these. Sorry about that, these games dont exactly pause for still shots well :devil:

Mysteriouskk
21st January 2008, 02:39
What is your system"s spec? For some reason, my PV4 card doesn't work at all. I've tried multiple mobos, AMD and Intel and, it just doesn't recognize the card at all. It recognized it the first time I install the card, but now I can get it to work at all. Anyone know what I should do? Anybody want the card?

Seraphic-
21st January 2008, 02:40
Dot50Cal, have you ever heard anything about "hardware-assisted compression" for the PV3 or is it all done with the software codec? And is the process to take 960x1080 to 1920x1080 the same idea as taking 640x480 to anamorphic wides-screen of 853x480?

Oh, and here is an interesting video of HDMI vs Component gaming capture at 720p. I'm sure people will differ on what looks better.

http://trailers.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/2654/t_uncharted_comparison_componenthdmi_gt_h264.mov

What is your system"s spec? For some reason, my PV4 card doesn't work at all. I've tried multiple mobos, AMD and Intel and, it just doesn't recognize the card at all. It recognized it the first time I install the card, but now I can get it to work at all. Anyone know what I should do? Anybody want the card?

I think I saw your post on the video help forum. Made reply to your issue. The first gen of the PV4 cards had issues with Core2Duo CPUs, the PV4 will not work with them without a flash update. That might be the issue, but it should work with other CPUs. Did you try the newest drivers? Did you buy it new? And yes, I might be interested in the card. Was interested to know if it is able to do 960x1080p like the PV3.

Dot50Cal
21st January 2008, 02:51
What is your system"s spec? For some reason, my PV4 card doesn't work at all. I've tried multiple mobos, AMD and Intel and, it just doesn't recognize the card at all. It recognized it the first time I install the card, but now I can get it to work at all. Anyone know what I should do? Anybody want the card?

You may have one of the incompatible motherboards. I heard there are a lot of issues. I have a DFI Lanparty UT DR Expert and a 4800+ X2 CPU (Dual core).

Dot50Cal, have you ever heard anything about "hardware-assisted compression" for the PV3 or is it all done with the software codec? And is the process to take 960x1080 to 1920x1080 the same idea as taking 640x480 to anamorphic wides-screen of 853x480?

I haven't heard anything about hardware assist. Its all done in software AFAIK. Blim from Gamersyde did tell me that the PV3 has 3 different levels of compression though. On simple scenes it doesnt compress as much, but on hard scenes your preview may skip frames and CPU usage goes to 100%. I noticed this myself when capturing Uncharted. The video records fine, but your preview loses a whole lot of frames so its hard to play that way. It happened for me when Drake was using vines on a white/grey wall which was panning back and forth.

You'd just need to resize the 960x1080 capture to 1920x1080 when encoding if you want to simulate 1080p.

Mysteriouskk
21st January 2008, 02:55
Dot50Cal, have you ever heard anything about "hardware-assisted compression" for the PV3 or is it all done with the software codec? And is the process to take 960x1080 to 1920x1080 the same idea as taking 640x480 to anamorphic wides-screen of 853x480?

Oh, and here is an interesting video of HDMI vs Component gaming capture at 720p. I'm sure people will differ on what looks better.

http://trailers.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/2654/t_uncharted_comparison_componenthdmi_gt_h264.mov



I think I saw your post on the video help forum. Made reply to your issue. The first gen of the PV4 cards had issues with Core2Duo CPUs, the PV4 will not work with them without a flash update. That might be the issue, but it should work with other CPUs. Did you try the newest drivers? Did you buy it new? And yes, I might be interested in the card. Was interested to know if it is able to do 960x1080p like the PV3.

Yea, I bought it new, and it did work the first time I ever installed it, so I think I might just be using the wrong motherboard or something like that. Is there a way I can flash it myself? I can't try the new drivers, because it doesn't even show up on my computer.

I have yet to try an AMD mobo and X2 processor, so I'll probably try that first.

Do you know a motherboard that completely works with the PV4?

Seraphic-
21st January 2008, 03:05
Yea, I bought it new, and it did work the first time I ever installed it, so I think I might just be using the wrong motherboard or something like that. Is there a way I can flash it myself? I can't try the new drivers, because it doesn't even show up on my computer.

I have yet to try an AMD mobo and X2 processor, so I'll probably try that first.

Do you know a motherboard that completely works with the PV4?

No, I cant' say for sure what motherboard works with it. But what motherboard were you using when it first worked? I would suggest get an idea on what motherboard Dot50Cal is using, since he has a PV3 and the PV4 should be similar to that.

But when it was working, do you recall seeing if the PV4 had support for 960x1080p?

Mysteriouskk
21st January 2008, 03:22
No, I cant' say for sure what motherboard works with it. But what motherboard were you using when it first worked? I would suggest get an idea on what motherboard Dot50Cal is using, since he has a PV3 and the PV4 should be similar to that.

But when it was working, do you recall seeing if the PV4 had support for 960x1080p?

It did recognize the card that first time, but I never got to use it past then. I believe I was using a C2D E6600 processor with a gigabyte mobo.

Seraphic-
21st January 2008, 09:11
It did recognize the card that first time, but I never got to use it past then. I believe I was using a C2D E6600 processor with a gigabyte mobo.

Oh, and I forgot to say in my last reply. Yes, you can flash the update to the PV4 using a computer that doesn't use a C2D. The update used to be on their main page of their website. They might have moved it within somewhere.

But it is odd that your computer would see it and then not. Maybe it got burned out or was just a bad card? It seems like you tried in a few systems and it didn't work.

easy2Bcheesy
22nd January 2008, 10:41
You'd just need to resize the 960x1080 capture to 1920x1080 when encoding if you want to simulate 1080p.

That's a waste of bandwidth. Encode at 960x1080, but adjust the aspect ratio to widescreen (1.777 to 1 if memory serves) and it'll resize on the fly during playback. Both WMV and MP4 can do this, and so can MKV.

But as I said previously, this really is a waste of effort for the following reasons, assuming we're talking PS3:

1. Barely any games actually support 1080p
2. Those that do are often compromised in terms of performance - lower frame rate or what-not
3. Many games with 1080p support aren't rendering 1080p any way - most are 720p upscaled
4. Due to the limitations with card, your best case scenario is a barely perceptible increase of quality over 720p any way - the gains of which will most likely be lost in the encoding process.

Dot50Cal
22nd January 2008, 12:37
I agree, if I had to do such a thing I would scale it down to 960xXXX and keep the proper aspect ratio. I was just showing him that option is there (and is what games often do).

easy2Bcheesy
23rd January 2008, 13:56
Oh, and here is an interesting video of HDMI vs Component gaming capture at 720p. I'm sure people will differ on what looks better.

http://trailers.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/2654/t_uncharted_comparison_componenthdmi_gt_h264.mov


Such a comparison is meaningless as the quality of the component capture will be entirely beholden to the quality of the digital to analogue converter on whatever capture card it is they're using. From what I've seen though based on my own observations, there's a fair bit less detail resolved in component. I would put this down to my screen except that I struggle to see the difference at all with my 360 Elite.

Gametrailers' comparison is also meaningless when the base quality is compromised by lame-ass Quicktime h.264 encoding. Uncompressed stills like Dot50Cal's earlier would be a better indication.

easy2Bcheesy
24th January 2008, 08:15
Heard back from my contact in Japan - MonsterX is now officially out of production, and stock is scarce. If you're interested in one, I'd start to search now.

Iolly
27th January 2008, 00:16
What's the difference in acquiring a progressive source at 480i thru component with intensity pro (or any other) rather than 480p (assuming source is 480 over)?
I mean: won't all fields match anyway (careless if bottom or upper field 1st)?
???

easy2Bcheesy
27th January 2008, 07:40
You don't get a picture. Most likely because the frequency of the signal is entirely different to 480i. For starters, twice as much video information is being transmitted.

Schrade
28th January 2008, 18:14
Gametrailers' comparison is also meaningless when the base quality is compromised by lame-ass Quicktime h.264 encoding. Uncompressed stills like Dot50Cal's earlier would be a better indication.

They actually use SVQ3 and not h.264. They just name their files with h264 in them for some reason. Even the WMV ones.

GameTrailers really sucks with their encoding quality.

Video #0
Codec : Sorenson 3
Codec/Info : Sorenson Media Video 3 (Apple QuickTime 5)
PlayTime : 2mn 55s
Bit rate : 3330 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 3382 Kbps
Width : 960 pixels
Height : 540 pixels
Display Aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.954 fps
Minimum frame rate : 8.022 fps
Maximum frame rate : 29.970 fps
StreamSize : 69.7 MiB
Encoded date : UTC 2008-01-19 00:09:40
Tagged date : UTC 2008-01-19 00:09:49

Audio #0
Codec : AAC LC
Codec/Info : AAC Low Complexity
PlayTime : 2mn 55s
Bit rate : 189 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 192 Kbps
Bit rate mode : CBR
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
StreamSize : 3.96 MiB
Encoded date : UTC 2008-01-19 00:09:40
Tagged date : UTC 2008-01-19 00:09:49

gigantibyte
28th January 2008, 19:48
I only have room for one card in my Media Center, and it needs DVBt. Been planning to move the power supply outside the case and somehow put a capture card where it was, but i just found the perfect card:

http://www.leadtek.com/eng/tv_tuner/overview.asp?lineid=6&pronameid=399

I thought this would be cool but no...

From jr_huang@leadtek.com.tw:

Dear Customer,

Thanks for your contacting first of all.
The card is software MPEG-II encoder and it don't sell to Canadian due to digital TV format is different

I was then directed to choose one of their S-Video cards. :P

ajp_anton
28th January 2008, 21:30
It's the "software mpeg2" thing that makes it interesting. It should mean you can record uncompressed without any trouble getting past the hardware encoder, right?

About "digital TV format is different", are there different versions of "DVB-t" or just "different digital formats"?

Mysteriouskk
29th January 2008, 01:57
They actually use SVQ3 and not h.264. They just name their files with h264 in them for some reason. Even the WMV ones.

GameTrailers really sucks with their encoding quality.

Video #0
Codec : Sorenson 3
Codec/Info : Sorenson Media Video 3 (Apple QuickTime 5)
PlayTime : 2mn 55s
Bit rate : 3330 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 3382 Kbps
Width : 960 pixels
Height : 540 pixels
Display Aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.954 fps
Minimum frame rate : 8.022 fps
Maximum frame rate : 29.970 fps
StreamSize : 69.7 MiB
Encoded date : UTC 2008-01-19 00:09:40
Tagged date : UTC 2008-01-19 00:09:49

Audio #0
Codec : AAC LC
Codec/Info : AAC Low Complexity
PlayTime : 2mn 55s
Bit rate : 189 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 192 Kbps
Bit rate mode : CBR
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
StreamSize : 3.96 MiB
Encoded date : UTC 2008-01-19 00:09:40
Tagged date : UTC 2008-01-19 00:09:49


What is the best way to compress my videos if I use Sorenson Squeeze?

I'm using Sony Vegas Pro to edit my videos, so I'm wondering how I should go about compressing it.

Do I make an uncompressed video out of vegas and then put it through squeeze?

easy2Bcheesy
29th January 2008, 18:41
Why use Sorenson Squeeze at all? Surely Vegas has WMV and h.264 output options?

Mysteriouskk
30th January 2008, 03:23
Why use Sorenson Squeeze at all? Surely Vegas has WMV and h.264 output options?

I cant seem to get the same quality per bitrate when I use wmv or h264 or something.

It just looks better on gametrailers for some reason.

Schrade
30th January 2008, 07:07
I'd render the video out uncompressed then use something that uses x264 to compress it.

ffmpeg, Avidemux, mencoder, or x264 itself if you want to process audio separately.

Or, just try some of the handy GUIs out there like AutoMKV, RipBot or meGUI.

easy2Bcheesy
8th February 2008, 13:15
Weirdly I've never managed to get AutoMKV working with my HD .avi files.

Jaxel
13th February 2008, 16:29
I got a question for those of you out there who have the Black Magic Intensity Pro... I plan on building a building a machine for it since: its cheaper than the rest, its easy to buy, and its in English... Here are requirements listed on the Intensity Pro webpage:

Traditionally uncompressed HD video has required the use of very fast, external disk arrays. However the high quality Online JPEG codec included with the Intensity drivers means that you can capture high definition video to a single, internal SATA disk. If you want to work with uncompressed video, you'll need at least two SATA disks in a RAID 0 configuration for standard definition. For uncompressed high defintion we'd recommend at least four SATA II disks (with 16 MB cache and running at 7200rpm) in a RAID 0 configuation.

I prefer to do all my capturing at the highest quality possible, but getting four identical SATA2 disks together is a bit of a chore (especially when most motherboards dont have enough controllers for it). Are four disks an absolute necessity? Could I do it with two? What kind of quality loss should I be expected if I go the single disk compressed route?

As well, what kind of file sizes am I looking at here? Right now with my standard definition recordings with my ATI Radeon x800XT-PE I am getting about 12.5 minutes for each 1GB of recorded video.

Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit

Really? Vista Ultimate? Why is Ultimate a requirement? Is Vista Home Premium enough? Also, are VirtualDubMod, AviSynth, DGIndex, and MKVToolnix compatible with 64-bit operating systems?

easy2Bcheesy
13th February 2008, 16:38
Blackmagic MJPEG sucks balls. If you can afford another $250, couple it with CineForm NEO HDV (free 15 day trial) for excellent results. That way you get uncompressed quality and can still use your single SATA drive.

For completely uncompressed capture you WILL need a three or four disk RAID array.

You don't need Vista Ultimate. Any Vista or XP will do.

Jaxel
13th February 2008, 16:52
Looking at the CineForm Neo HDV website, I'm a little confused on what it does... I'm guessing its just a codec that replaces MJPEG? Looking at the BlackMagic manual, it says uncompressed, I should be expecting about 370gb for each hour of video... what should I be expecting with Neo HDV?

Are there any open source, free solutions like the Neo HDV?

easy2Bcheesy
13th February 2008, 18:34
If there was a freeware alternative to Neo HDV I doubt they could get away with charging $250 for it. Try it for 15 days and if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Jaxel
13th February 2008, 19:13
If there was a freeware alternative to Neo HDV I doubt they could get away with charging $250 for it. Try it for 15 days and if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Yeah... thats true...

Actually I'm afraid that I WILL like it... thus forcing me to buy it.

easy2Bcheesy
13th February 2008, 19:15
I suspect that your four disk RAID array will cost considerably more.

Jaxel
13th February 2008, 19:26
See thats exactly it... I dont know whats worth it...

Can get 320gb drives for $90... for the cost of the software, plus $20, I could buy 3 extra hard drives (thus making a four disk RAID Array), which will also quadruple my disk capacity and handle the uncompressed video without issues... right?

But at this point, the FILE SIZES are the biggest issue... with uncompressed, its 370gb per 1 hour of video... with MJPEG its 18gb per 1 hour of video... with Neo HDV, how much will 1 hour of video consume?

Jaxel
13th February 2008, 20:22
On a further note... if I could get at least 5 hours of video using NEO HDV on a single 640gb drive... that would be my FIRST choice...

But like I said... I would like to know the file sizes for Neo HDV.

easy2Bcheesy
13th February 2008, 20:28
On 'high' setting CineForm probably yields around 40GB to 70GB for one hour of video depending on the complexity of your material.

Jaxel
13th February 2008, 20:49
So explain to me how CineForm works...

I capture the video compressed in MJPEG and Neo HDV decompresses it into the CineForm format? Or do I capture directly into CineForm? I noticed that the website specifically lists the Intensity for compatibility.

easy2Bcheesy
13th February 2008, 21:02
You never gain quality by re-compressing an already compressed stream. CineForm is its own codec with its own capture tool. As I said, just try it.

Mysteriouskk
13th February 2008, 23:32
Is Cineform a lot better than PicVideo's MJPEG codec?

Jaxel
14th February 2008, 00:34
CineForm is compatible with AviSynth and VirtualDubMod?

Jaxel
14th February 2008, 04:19
Okay... before I buy the Intensity Pro...

Are there any other High Definition solutions available in ENGLISH? (I dont care about HDMI, only Component)

Mysteriouskk
14th February 2008, 04:37
Okay... before I buy the Intensity Pro...

Are there any other High Definition solutions available in ENGLISH? (I dont care about HDMI, only Component)

Only the Intensity Pro is in English as far as I know.

Jaxel
24th February 2008, 00:54
I just bought the Intensity Pro card and it came with 1.8.0 driver software (which worked). So I went onto the blackmagic website and downloaded the newest 1.8.2 driver software isntead. After installing the software and restarting my machine, it told me that I needed to upgrade the firmware on the Intensity Pro, so I clicked okay and the program ugpraded the firmware. When it was done, it told me to restart my machine, which I did. Then, it told me yet again, that I needed to upgrade the firmware, so I ran it again, finished again, restarted again... then it all happened again, it put me into an infinite loop of firmware upgrading. Unfortunately, because the firmware upgrade isnt working, I cant capture any video, and unfortunately because I ran the firmware upgrade, the old 1.8.0 software can no longer detect the card...

Has anyone else had this problem? Anyone have any solutions?

easy2Bcheesy
24th February 2008, 06:48
Sounds like an issue for Blackmagic technical support to be honest.

Link00y
5th March 2008, 11:25
Well, I now bought that Leadtek PXDTV2300H - the one featuring 480p via component (no, it doesn't support HD input I tested).

And here comes my little review... the software you're given is crappy in my eyes it's targetted at the base user - unfortunately I haven't found another software besides which was properly able to handle the 480p input (most softwares only recorded 30 FPS, others crashed and others - did something else).

The viewing quality is actually awkward - the software (targetted as base users) always has a visible deinterlacer running even when it isn't needed at all - and if you encode to its proposed output formats (MPEG1 or MPEG2) you can select Interlaced encoding and progressive encoding - as I figured progressive encoding will be handled as "deinterlace source" although that's not needed, I switched to interlaced and making it even worse - I succesfully got interlaced video from a progressive source.

But now.. that's about the bad points.. if you select another codec (I went on with HuffYuv and PCM audio) the result is MUCH better - while the preview quality is still kinda awkward the capture quality (and that's what a capture card is there for in my eyes - I normally watch TV/play video games on my TV) is: full and nice resolution (I recommend 720x480 or 768x480 for 480p input) and: 60 FPS.. and I made some quick checks it really seems that it's actual 60 FPS and not something like 30 FPS with every frame doubled (well, I recorded with my Wii and some games internally only run at 30 FPS but that's gamewise and not capture card-wise).

I am checking whether I can upload some test videos (for some videos A/V sync was lost but I was only trying and I seriously did not care for that - because I made other tests and found that it can be helped).

So result: when I got it I thought about returning - capture quality in 480p was simply bad but the only rule is: not to use the MPEG(2) encoders. But in the end.. as long as you do not use those encoders but something better it seems kinda decent - and definetely good considering the card is in a "low price" segment (50 for me). Same goes actually for screenshots: those are never deinterlaced (even in 480i mode) - so in 480p they shine with glory (well, I tested on my Wii and Xbox 360 you gotta take care about overscan but that's all).

easy2Bcheesy
6th March 2008, 17:00
I've got a Monster-X card now and while it's great for 480p capture, I am having untold issues with it in 720p and 1080i. Nothing wrong with my sources, nothing wrong with my cables, it's simply not very good.

Basically, even the supplied viewer software produces video like this (http://216.75.63.164/problem.wmv).

The MxCapture tool produces a better, but still not decent level of stabilisation. The fact that it is improved suggests that the app has been coded to accommodate its deficiencies.

But this all goes to explain the frame drops in MysteriousKK's earlier videos and also his sync issues.

Dot50Cal
6th March 2008, 18:23
Damn guys, thats really sad to hear. Easy, that seems like it might be a hardware conflict? Maybe try swapping the card around to get on a new IRQ? It could even be your motheboard, I know the PV3 is also very fussy on what hardware you run it on. If you have another machine try using that if the IRQ swap fails.

easy2Bcheesy
6th March 2008, 18:27
The card performs identically on two entirely different systems, one of which was freshly formatted.

If it wasn't for what I've seen in MysteriousKK's 720p captures, along with the fact that the MxCapture tool deliberately appears to be adjusting for the problem, I'd be inclined to agree.

Mysteriouskk
6th March 2008, 18:52
The card performs identically on two entirely different systems, one of which was freshly formatted.

If it wasn't for what I've seen in MysteriousKK's 720p captures, along with the fact that the MxCapture tool deliberately appears to be adjusting for the problem, I'd be inclined to agree.

I try capturing some Xbox 360 and Wii footage tonight.

Did you try reformatting?

easy2Bcheesy
6th March 2008, 18:57
As I said, I have a freshly formatted PC that's doing exactly the same.

ajp_anton
6th March 2008, 19:04
Link00y:
Does VirtualDub work with the PXDTV2300H (480p at 60fps)? I had never planned to record into any mpeg2 anyway, I always use lossless or uncompressed. So as long as that works...
Also, what about this "overscan" thing... you can't get a full 720x480 picture after cropping?

Mysteriouskk
6th March 2008, 19:05
As I said, I have a freshly formatted PC that's doing exactly the same.

When you capture 480p, does it squish the video? I have to load it into Sony Vegas and change the pixel aspect ration to widescreen for it to look ok.

easy2Bcheesy
6th March 2008, 19:20
480p is a uniform 720x480. So yes, you will have to adjust the pixel ratio. You can't capture in 848x480.

Mysteriouskk
6th March 2008, 19:25
480p is a uniform 720x480. So yes, you will have to adjust the pixel ratio. You can't capture in 848x480.

What is the best way to crop out the video so that there are no black bars horizontally or vertically?

And when I export to wmv, should I use 848x480, and square pixels for the movie?

easy2Bcheesy
6th March 2008, 19:48
Haven't we been through this all this already? A crop/resize filter in something like VirtualDub would eliminate the borders and you encode to wmv with a 1.777:1 pixel aspect ratio.

Mysteriouskk
6th March 2008, 21:09
Haven't we been through this all this already? A crop/resize filter in something like VirtualDub would eliminate the borders and you encode to wmv with a 1.777:1 pixel aspect ratio.

In Vegas, when I render as a wmv file, I only have the options of 1.000 square pixels or 1.333. How can I export a vegas file using virtual dub?

easy2Bcheesy
7th March 2008, 07:22
Just export an AVI and encode using Windows Media Encoder.

Mysteriouskk
8th March 2008, 07:09
I tried the Neo HDV codec and it lags at 720p when I'm recording it; however when I'm done capturing and I play it back, it is perfectly fine. 480p with the codec works fine. I can capture and play it back normally, so I guess my cpu or something isn't powerful enough.

I'm doing a Super Smash Brawl Review in 480p, so that should be coming tomorrow.

Jaxel
8th March 2008, 08:47
Okay... just got my Intensity working (THIRD card, had to RMA twice, 4videoequipment.com rocks!)...

The following video was captured using the Black Magic Intensity Pro (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/) and the CineForm Neo HDV (https://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm) at 720p 59.94fps through Component (YPbPr) cables. It was captured at "Low" quality because I haven't put together my Raid-0 array together yet and any higher would have put in massive frame loss. Encoded with x264-aac in a Matroska Video wrapper.

http://www.crookedjester.com/T5DRo.mkv

Any advice you guys have for improving the quality of video? Just like Mysteriouskk, I too have the "lag" on playback, but no lag on actual capture problem. Unfortunatley, the Intensity Pro cant do 480p, only 480i, 720p and 1080i.

easy2Bcheesy
8th March 2008, 09:34
First of all, the data rate of CineForm at the High quality level is still only using around 65% of your single SATA drive's bandwidth - at most. There's no need to limit yourself to Low quality.

Secondly, lag on playback is down to one of two factors:

1 - your CPU
2 - your media player

First to check the CPU - in the start menu, under CineForm there should be a tool to reduce the playback quality. Select fast, lower quality playback. Do you still get the lag?

Second, switch to Media Player Classic to play the clips.

If the lower quality playback setting has no lag, then basically that means your capture is sound.

What CPU are you using exactly?

Dot50Cal
8th March 2008, 12:35
For reference, even with a 4800+ X2 (dual core) AMD cpu, on my PV3, the preview window for me lags when capturing 720p footage from certain games. It usually happens when there are large white area's with lots of motion (hard to compress). I've noticed this on Uncharted Drake's Fortune, but have yet to encounter it anywhere else. The captured video is fine though, its just the preview that cant keep up.

easy2Bcheesy
8th March 2008, 13:06
Fair enough, but PV3 is a completely different kettle of fish to Monster-X what its propietary capture tool etc.

A 4800+ X2 would struggle with 720p and CineForm.

Seraphic-
8th March 2008, 16:19
Okay... just got my Intensity working (THIRD card, had to RMA twice, 4videoequipment.com rocks!)...

The following video was captured using the Black Magic Intensity Pro (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/) and the CineForm Neo HDV (https://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm) at 720p 59.94fps through Component (YPbPr) cables. It was captured at "Low" quality because I haven't put together my Raid-0 array together yet and any higher would have put in massive frame loss. Encoded with x264-aac in a Matroska Video wrapper.

http://www.crookedjester.com/T5DRo.mkv

Any advice you guys have for improving the quality of video? Just like Mysteriouskk, I too have the "lag" on playback, but no lag on actual capture problem. Unfortunatley, the Intensity Pro cant do 480p, only 480i, 720p and 1080i.

I thought that when using component with the Intensity Pro, with no way to adjust image settings (saturation/contrast/sharpness, etc), that the image would have luminosity issues and other picture issues?

Also, what makes cineform worth $300+? Unless you acquired it another way. =D

Last, what is up with that website you talked about? 4videoequipment.com changes their stock for the item using a random number generator on every page reload. :p

Availability:
Item in stock!: 10

http://www.4videoequipment.com/video/store2/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=9339&E=Blackmagic+Design-Blackmagic+Intensity+Pro+-+High+Definition+HDMI+I/O+Capture

easy2Bcheesy
8th March 2008, 18:45
CineForm's $250 and it's worth the money simply because it gives you small, manageable filesizes of the highest quality. It also saves you money in that you won't need a 3-4 disk RAID array to get uncompressed quality.

You get a 15-day free trial so there's no need to 'acquire' it. More than that considering the fact that it's just a few guys working out of a small office somewhere in CA, ripping them off leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

If you look at the DV Info message board you'll see that they're enthusiasts just like you and me.

Seraphic-
8th March 2008, 20:22
CineForm's $250 and it's worth the money simply because it gives you small, manageable filesizes of the highest quality. It also saves you money in that you won't need a 3-4 disk RAID array to get uncompressed quality.

You get a 15-day free trial so there's no need to 'acquire' it. More than that considering the fact that it's just a few guys working out of a small office somewhere in CA, ripping them off leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

If you look at the DV Info message board you'll see that they're enthusiasts just like you and me.

Didn't know that much about them so that is why I was asking what makes it worth their price. I mean, even with the $250 version you can't do 1080i/p (yes I know, no full 1080p cards out in the price range for most of us. but 1080i is). The $250 seems to max at 1440 resolution and you would need the $600 version for 1080i/p.

Seems like a cool program, but the price is kind of up there. They would make less money per sale, but would have a lot more sales I think if they made one version and sold it for less.

Jaxel
8th March 2008, 21:01
Seraph, I am using the trial right now...

CineForm Neo HDV is capture software that converts directly into CineForm's Intermediate Codec... which is only about 1gb per minute and doesnt require a raid array. The compression is so good that you cant really notice a difference between that and the full BlackMagic Uncompressed format which is 6gb per minute and requires a 4-disk array.

Also, since CineForm's DeckLink software captures the video itself, there is no need to do any capturing through other software like Premiere or Vegas. I would personally buy the software WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT for $50... but I dont know how I feel about $250.

New Question...

With my old capture card, it captured 480i video at 30fps into MPEG2. This was fine because then I could use DGIndex-DGBob to make it into 480p video at 60fps, which is great for high level fighting games like Tekken, Virtua Fighter or Soul Calibur... Unfortunately, Cineform Intermediate captures video into an AVI wrapper. Is there any software out there that works just like DGIndex that I could use to capture 480ix30 video and convert it into 480px60 video?

Seraphic-
8th March 2008, 21:15
Jaxel, when using component with the Intensity Pro, with no way to adjust image settings (saturation/contrast/sharpness, etc), doesn't the image have luminosity issues and other picture issues?

Mysteriouskk
8th March 2008, 21:57
Here is my first compilation and review of Super Smash Brothers Brawl in 480p...

The quality is alright, and I'm trying to see what format works best with their site.

It was captured with the Monster X using a combination of both the Neo HDV codec and MJPEG. I couldn't really tell them apart, so I basically stuck to MJPEG, since it takes up less space wise. It's at 848x480, because the Monster X captures 480p at 720x480, but I needed to change the pixel ration to widescreen, and when I do that I also need to change the resolution for it to work. I also cropped the video a little bit, to get rid of the black bars on either side.

Video: http://www.vimeo.com/765108

If you have any questions, leave a reply here.

Thanks

Jaxel
8th March 2008, 22:15
Seraphic, I have ZERO issues with luminosity... the picture comes out great and the colors are very vibrant...

http://www.crookedjester.com/VF5trailer.mkv

I notice a huge difference between Neo HDV and MJPEG however... MJPEG looks like a crazy video bob.

The only issue I have had with the card itself is occasionaly the sound wonks out and instead of capting the audio, it captures a loud fuzz. The only way i have found to fix this is to restart my computer... Oh, and occasionaly the program locks up my computer.

Seraphic-
8th March 2008, 22:23
Here is my first compilation and review of Super Smash Brothers Brawl in 480p...

The quality is alright, and I'm trying to see what format works best with their site.

It was captured with the Monster X using a combination of both the Neo HDV codec and MJPEG. I couldn't really tell them apart, so I basically stuck to MJPEG, since it takes up less space wise. It's at 848x480, because the Monster X captures 480p at 720x480, but I needed to change the pixel ration to widescreen, and when I do that I also need to change the resolution for it to work. I also cropped the video a little bit, to get rid of the black bars on either side.

Video: http://www.vimeo.com/765108

If you have any questions, leave a reply here.

Thanks

Cool review, nice work. Did you ever find out if the monterx can do 640x480?

Also, I sent you a reply to you PM back from awhile ago. Just saw it today.

Seraphic-
8th March 2008, 22:24
Seraphic, I have ZERO issues with luminosity... the picture comes out great and the colors are very vibrant...

http://www.crookedjester.com/VF5trailer.mkv

I notice a huge difference between Neo HDV and MJPEG however... MJPEG looks like a crazy video bob.

Yeah, I saw that video before. The video is good but kind of looks over smoothed. However, you said you used a low quality setting so it might be from that or from the lower bit-rate used in the final movie.

I called blackmagic a few weeks ago. They said when using component, there is no way to adjust saturation/contrast/sharpness/hue, etc. that kind of sucks.

Jaxel
8th March 2008, 23:40
The oversmoothing comes from the x264 compression... I havent found a good setting for x264 to keep it sharp and have a small file size. When I watch the original capture, its extremely clean, looks uncompressed.

Mysteriouskk
9th March 2008, 00:06
Cool review, nice work. Did you ever find out if the monterx can do 640x480?

Also, I sent you a reply to you PM back from awhile ago. Just saw it today.

It can probably do that. I'm using MXcapture to capture video, so you can't really input your resolution. Whatever goes in, that is what it captures at.

Seraphic-
9th March 2008, 00:18
It can probably do that. I'm using MXcapture to capture video, so you can't really input your resolution. Whatever goes in, that is what it captures at.

You had to buy a Japanese Wii, right? Or did the Japanese version of Smash Bros. Brawl run on a U.S system?

Jaxel
9th March 2008, 02:22
So any solutions to my new problem?

With my old capture card, it captured 480i video at 30fps into MPEG2. This was fine because then I could use DGIndex-DGBob to make it into 480p video at 60fps, which is great for high level fighting games like Tekken, Virtua Fighter or Soul Calibur... Unfortunately, Cineform Intermediate captures video into an AVI wrapper. Is there any software out there that works just like DGIndex that I could use to capture 480ix30 video and convert it into 480px60 video?

Mysteriouskk
9th March 2008, 02:24
You had to buy a Japanese Wii, right? Or did the Japanese version of Smash Bros. Brawl run on a U.S system?

I borrowed my friend's japanese wii... :)

Jaxel
10th March 2008, 21:12
Okay guys... some people helped me on AIM and I found a solution to my problem...

With MPEG, I was using DGIndex/DGBob with Avisynth...

With AVI, I am now using Gunnar Thalin's "Deinterlace - Smooth" with AviSynth...

Works great, doubles the frames just like DGIndex did, and smooths it out and resizes to original source without any quality loss... a bit weird looking in VirtualDubMod with the input video being half the size.

Jaxel
11th March 2008, 06:10
Secondly, lag on playback is down to one of two factors:

1 - your CPU
2 - your media player

First to check the CPU - in the start menu, under CineForm there should be a tool to reduce the playback quality. Select fast, lower quality playback. Do you still get the lag?

Second, switch to Media Player Classic to play the clips.

If the lower quality playback setting has no lag, then basically that means your capture is sound.

What CPU are you using exactly?

The lag is in the preview window, not in the actual recording or the playback. I have a Intel Q6700 2.66ghz QUAD Core, with 4GB of RAM. Whether I use the High Quality or the Fast Playback options, the preview window still lags... either way, the Fast Playback option shrinks the size of the video, which sort of defeats the purpose of high definition, doesnt it?

easy2Bcheesy
11th March 2008, 22:08
Fast playback is merely scaling down the playback so as not to stress the CPU. It has zero effect on capture (which is still HD) just on the playback of your clips. Previously you said that the 'playback' was at fault, but now you appear to be saying it's fine but it's the preview window that is the problem.

If the preview window in the CineForm tool is running with lag, that is something you should address with CineForm tech support. Or alternatively just ignore the preview window and connect a secondary monitor to the Intensity output.

ajp_anton
12th March 2008, 04:57
Is there any kind of summary of what's been discussed here?
Like a list of cards, how much they cost, what they can do, how good they do it, and what programs they are compatible with?
Been kind of leaning towards the Monster X, but i read it doesn't do 720p very well...? And I've only seen it on a few Japanese sites that doesn't sell abroad.

easy2Bcheesy
12th March 2008, 06:38
Intensity Pro: great card overall, but no 480p support, no support for non-Blackmagic codecs within VirtualDub, but does have support from CineForm. Blackmagic MJPEG codec is not very good.

MonsterX: Wonderful 480p support, questionable 720p support, only really works with its own capture tool.

PV3: Great quality, 480p support, but only works with its own capture tool.

Leadtek PXDTV2300H: Cheap at $70, 480i/480p component support only - not enough details to make any further assessment (poster not replying to PMs or questions).

Mysteriouskk
12th March 2008, 06:52
Intensity Pro: great card overall, but no 480p support, no support for non-Blackmagic codecs within VirtualDub, but does have support from CineForm. Blackmagic MJPEG codec is not very good.

MonsterX: Wonderful 480p support, questionable 720p support, only really works with its own capture tool.

PV3: Great quality, 480p support, but only works with its own capture tool.

Leadtek PXDTV2300H: Cheap at $70, 480i/480p component support only - not enough details to make any further assessment (poster not replying to PMs or questions).

Blackmagic Intensity is $250 / Pro $350

Monster X and PV3/4 retails for something like $200 in Japan, but to get it to the states or elsewhere will cost an extra charge*

ajp_anton
12th March 2008, 23:04
I only really need the 480p, but 720p would be a nice bonus for the future. So it has to be MonsterX or PV3/4.
I've always been using VirtualDub for capturing. Looks like it doesn't work with either of them.
Can they both record lossless/uncompressed, and how bloated are the tools needed?

Mysteriouskk
13th March 2008, 02:38
I only really need the 480p, but 720p would be a nice bonus for the future. So it has to be MonsterX or PV3/4.
I've always been using VirtualDub for capturing. Looks like it doesn't work with either of them.
Can they both record lossless/uncompressed, and how bloated are the tools needed?

The tools are all in Japanese so it makes it more difficult to use, since you sorta need to use the settings to get it right.

Seraphic-
14th March 2008, 00:43
Anyone interested in a Blackmagic Intensity HDMI capture card? I have an extra one. The HD card will work with with Windows and MAC OS X and will capture 480i (720x480), 720p (1280x720), and 1080i (1920x1080) using HDMI. It will also capture two channel audio using the same HDMI cable.

The card runs using a PCI express 1x slot and your Xbox360 must have an HDMI port. Works great with Xbox360 game capture (xbox360 needs HDMI port).

Mysteriouskk
14th March 2008, 05:08
Anyone interested in a Blackmagic Intensity HDMI capture card? I have an extra one. The HD card will work with with Windows and MAC OS X and will capture 480i (720x480), 720p (1280x720), and 1080i (1920x1080) using HDMI. It will also capture two channel audio using the same HDMI cable.

The card runs using a PCI express 1x slot and your Xbox360 must have an HDMI port. Works great with Xbox360 game capture (xbox360 needs HDMI port).

Wanna trade for my PV4?

Seraphic-
14th March 2008, 05:23
Wanna trade for my PV4?

Why would you want to get rid of your PV4?

Mysteriouskk
14th March 2008, 05:53
Why would you want to get rid of your PV4?
I can't get it to work with my computer... lol

I've read that you need certain hardware for it to work. Apparently it doesn't work with mine.

E6600 + Gigabyte Mobo...

Seraphic-
14th March 2008, 06:09
I can't get it to work with my computer... lol

I've read that you need certain hardware for it to work. Apparently it doesn't work with mine.

E6600 + Gigabyte Mobo...

Don't you have a MonterX card? Why would you get a PV4 too?

Anyway, your PV4 must be part of the first 70 lot released. There was a known issue with them not working with Core 2 Duo processors. You need to flash a new firmware to the card.

1st lot 70 unit peculiar information

* About the problem where 1st lot 70 PV4 is not recognized mainly with Core 2 Duo environment
<< Guide >>
We have produced after the 2nd lot with new flash memory contents, this problem does not occur.
The yellow round seal of diameter 16mm is pasted in the baseplate after the 2nd lot.
This problem was correctedat FPGA circuit release number 02.
The FPGA circuit it is possible by using PV version 3.1.3, to renew to new ones.
We keeping PV4 at our company, because also it is possible, to renew,please inquire.



http://earthsoft.jp/PV4/info-update-01.html

Mysteriouskk
14th March 2008, 06:22
Don't you have a MonterX card? Why would you get a PV4 too?

Anyway, your PV4 must be part of the first 70 lot released. There was a known issue with them not working with Core 2 Duo processors. You need to flash a new firmware to the card.



http://earthsoft.jp/PV4/info-update-01.html

I actually got the PV4 first, but couldn't get it working, so I bought the MonsterX.

I'm not sure what or how to update it, since my mobo doesn't recognize the card. I think I have to send them the card, but I'm not sure how that is going to happen since I'm in the United States, and I also don't speak Japanese. Do you think you could help me out with it?

btw... my PV4 does have the yellow dot on it.

Seraphic-
14th March 2008, 06:31
I actually got the PV4 first, but couldn't get it working, so I bought the MonsterX.

I'm not sure what or how to update it, since my mobo doesn't recognize the card. I think I have to send them the card, but I'm not sure how that is going to happen since I'm in the United States, and I also don't speak Japanese. Do you think you could help me out with it?

btw... my PV4 does have the yellow dot on it.

Anyway, to update the card, you have use a computer that doesn't have the problem and can see the card. So, you have to use a computer that doesn't have a Core 2 Duo CPU (ask a friend or try at work or something).

Dot50Cal
17th March 2008, 12:20
Can they both record lossless/uncompressed, and how bloated are the tools needed?

PV3 has its own compressed format, but its virtually lossless. I posted some shots in this thread. If you are serious about buying one of these cards, you really should read this entire topic first.

MaggIvy
18th March 2008, 06:48
Anyway, to update the card, you have use a computer that doesn't have the problem and can see the card. So, you have to use a computer that doesn't have a Core 2 Duo CPU (ask a friend or try at work or something).

Since we're on the topic of processors, will the Intensity Pro work with a quad core pc?

ajp_anton
18th March 2008, 22:36
Finally found the Leadtek 480p card somewhere that ships to Sweden. It's even cheaper than I thought so I should get it within a week or so (they say friday but you never know...)

edit:
Got the card one day earlier. After lots of testing (even installed Vista for the first time when I couldn't get it to work in XP), I've been able to locate the problem:
The card is stuck at S-video. Whatever input I choose, the card keeps returning the picture from S-video. Even "No Input" and "TV tuner" in VirtualDub does that. Yes, I've also tried the bundled software (PVR2).

edit2:
Problem seems to be that my two capture cards aren't compatible with each other. The other one captures composite and S-video at the same time, so there are 3 capture devices. When using all of them together, one of them seems frozen to one input. This "one" is always the PxDTV2300H (frozen to S-video), except once when it was the S-video one (which was probably frozen at "no input" or something). Can't seem to make it happen again.
If I disable the old card in Device Manager, I can connect to the new card. Then I enable it and everything works. This way I can stay connected to all of them for a few minutes before the computer totally freezes.
All this is tested on two computers, XP and XP/Vista (all 32-bit, 64-bit doesn't work at all).

Mysteriouskk
30th March 2008, 01:24
So are there any updates to the Monster X card and MXcapture program?

MaggIvy
30th March 2008, 09:48
Ok, I read that the Blackmagic Intensity (NOT pro) one can capture via hdmi if you have hdcp compliant video card and monitor. I was wondering if anyone has tried this with any success?

easy2Bcheesy
30th March 2008, 11:51
edit2:
Problem seems to be that my two capture cards aren't compatible with each other. The other one captures composite and S-video at the same time, so there are 3 capture devices. When using all of them together, one of them seems frozen to one input. This "one" is always the PxDTV2300H (frozen to S-video), except once when it was the S-video one (which was probably frozen at "no input" or something). Can't seem to make it happen again.
If I disable the old card in Device Manager, I can connect to the new card. Then I enable it and everything works. This way I can stay connected to all of them for a few minutes before the computer totally freezes.
All this is tested on two computers, XP and XP/Vista (all 32-bit, 64-bit doesn't work at all).

So can you capture 480p at 60fps within VirtualDub? Any chance of a Super Mario Galaxy or other Wii screenshot showing uncompressed quality?

So are there any updates to the Monster X card and MXcapture program?

Not that I can see.

Ok, I read that the Blackmagic Intensity (NOT pro) one can capture via hdmi if you have hdcp compliant video card and monitor. I was wondering if anyone has tried this with any success?

I find this to be incredibly unlikely. Where did you read it? The whole point of HDCP is to prevent digital copies of HD video and I feel sure that the HDCP decoder chip would need to be on the Intensity, not the graphics card.

ajp_anton
30th March 2008, 18:16
So can you capture 480p at 60fps within VirtualDub? Any chance of a Super Mario Galaxy or other Wii screenshot showing uncompressed quality?I got the cards to work (without freezing), but I still need to temporarily disable one of them while connecting to the other one.
VirtualDub doesn't work with 480p - I get two unstable pictures stacked side by side. PVR2 (comes with the card) works, and you can choose whatever codecs you have on your computer. Only possible resolution (at least for uncompressed/lossless) is 768x480, can probably be resized if you compress with ffdshow.

Just came home from a Smash Bros Melee tournament, and I was hoping I could capture a little Brawl too, but nobody wanted to play in 480p widescreen...
Zelda TP is 30fps, but I can try to capture a little Monkey Ball (after I finish compressing 30 hours of Melee videos).

easy2Bcheesy
30th March 2008, 18:24
It sounds for all the world like VirtualDub is stuck on 480i mode. That would explain the wobbly images.

Are there no options under video->capture filter you can tweak?

I don't mind what game you grab, I just want to see the quality. It doesn't matter what frame rate the game runs at, the Wii is still outputting a 60Hz signal at 480p.

MaggIvy
30th March 2008, 21:56
I find this to be incredibly unlikely. Where did you read it? The whole point of HDCP is to prevent digital copies of HD video and I feel sure that the HDCP decoder chip would need to be on the Intensity, not the graphics card.

Ohh ok, I see...in that case I guess I'm better off getting the intensity pro?

I heard it from a friend so i was wondering if there is any potential of it really working.

easy2Bcheesy
30th March 2008, 22:02
I'd say the potential is approximately zero. The Intensity is receiving a scrambled signal it has no means to decode. For grabbing console, Intensity Pro isn't bad so long as you can put up with the awful software it comes with.

MaggIvy
30th March 2008, 22:11
I know I can use Iuvcr for it, I've managed to get it to work with the hdmi one, I just couldn't get a signal.

I agree with the software though, it does suck.

So I'll get an intensity pro then.

Thanks.

Seraphic-
31st March 2008, 17:21
Ok, I read that the Blackmagic Intensity (NOT pro) one can capture via hdmi if you have hdcp compliant video card and monitor. I was wondering if anyone has tried this with any success?

What console are you trying to capture v.i HDMI from? Xbox360 or PS3?

Jaxel
31st March 2008, 20:38
I know I can use Iuvcr for it, I've managed to get it to work with the hdmi one, I just couldn't get a signal.

I agree with the software though, it does suck.

So I'll get an intensity pro then.

Thanks.

What is Iuvcr and Iuvsr? Right now I am using the trial for Cineform Neo, but I dont want to be spending $250 for the software. Are Iuvcr or Iuvsr a viable replacement for them? The Intensity Software is garbage.

easy2Bcheesy
31st March 2008, 22:05
He's talking about this. (http://www.iulabs.com/iuvcr/index.shtml) It's no replacement for the compression/quality of CineForm.

MaggIvy
1st April 2008, 04:05
What console are you trying to capture v.i HDMI from? Xbox360 or PS3?

PlayStation3.

MaggIvy
1st April 2008, 04:09
He's talking about this. (http://www.iulabs.com/iuvcr/index.shtml) It's no replacement for the compression/quality of CineForm.

Make that "she" lol.

What is Iuvcr and Iuvsr? Right now I am using the trial for Cineform Neo, but I dont want to be spending $250 for the software. Are Iuvcr or Iuvsr a viable replacement for them? The Intensity Software is garbage.

It's just something I used because I kept getting errors that other programs couldn't access the capture card. So I used Iuvcr and it worked.

What's Cineform Neo? Can it record in a "lossless" codec like huffyuv or lagarith? I'm not going to bother recording in uncompressed since I don't have 4 disc raid...

easy2Bcheesy
2nd April 2008, 06:37
It's impossible to capture losslessly consistently at anything better than a 2.5:1 compression ratio. CineForm isn't lossless but you honestly can't tell the difference quality-wise and your compression ratio is closer to 10:1, meaning easy to handle files plus no need for RAID arrays.

Jaxel
2nd April 2008, 07:27
Yeah... Cineform Neo is AMAZING.

MaggIvy
3rd April 2008, 02:05
It's impossible to capture losslessly consistently at anything better than a 2.5:1 compression ratio.

What is 2.5:1 compression ratio?

Southstorm
3rd April 2008, 04:17
@MaggIvy
Lets say you have a 1000MB raw video file. A 2.5:1 compression ratio would mean 1000 / 2.5 = 400. So your compressed video file would be 400MB, and so forth...

MaggIvy
3rd April 2008, 07:03
Oh so you mean its impossible to record to get a set file size or something? You kinda lost me there.

I'm really not worried about saving hd space if thats the case.

easy2Bcheesy
3rd April 2008, 07:46
You should be because a single hard disk on its own doesn't have the speed to capture high definition uncompressed and even with 2.5:1 compression, I still need a two disk RAID-0 array.

MaggIvy
3rd April 2008, 08:15
I have two hds but I just don't understand how this array thing works? What is it?

easy2Bcheesy
3rd April 2008, 22:26
A RAID array combines two disks together to form one volume. It can offer up to twice the speed by simultaneously writing data to both drives.

Uncompressed HD capture is far beyond the limits of a single hard disk - you're really looking at four disks in a RAID-0 array. Mathematically lossless compression like Huffyuv is at best 2.5:1, meaning you can get away with a two disk RAID-0 array.

As CineForm offers a 10:1 compression ratio, it can capture the entire flow of data onto a normal SATA drive, no arrays required. Indeed, it's so good that even a single 2.5" laptop drive could cope and that's a lot slower than an equivalent desktop drive.

MaggIvy
4th April 2008, 03:28
NOW I see. :thanks:

MaggIvy
5th April 2008, 23:09
Hey, I was searching around for codecs and I found this other one called sheer video.

Is it any good for capturing?

http://www.bitjazz.com/en/products/sheervideo/

easy2Bcheesy
6th April 2008, 06:47
No, for two reasons:

a) it's a lossless codec so you'll still need that two disk RAID-0 array
b) it's a Quicktime codec and PCs don't usually capture using Quicktime

MaggIvy
6th April 2008, 10:01
Oh so as long as it isn't lossless I can get away with it?

I see.

easy2Bcheesy
7th April 2008, 17:00
For HD capture with an Intensity on a single disk drive, you're looking at CineForm or the Blackmagic MJPEG codec you get free with the card.

The codec and the bundled software suck harder than an industrial strength vacuum cleaner, so basically there's either CineForm or nothing, really.

Jaxel
7th April 2008, 18:14
Heh... anyone know a way to reset the 15-day trial on the cineform software? lol... $250 is too expensive for something I am only going to use as capture software.

Blue_MiSfit
7th April 2008, 23:24
$250 is too expensive for something I am only going to use as capture software.


No, it isn't.

CineForm is an extremely powerful piece of software, and nothing out there comes close. It's well worth the money for this kind of thing. Open source solutions can do the same or better image quality, but not at anywhere close to the speed.

Don't tread into rule 6 territory.

~MiSfit

MaggIvy
8th April 2008, 02:50
For HD capture with an Intensity on a single disk drive, you're looking at CineForm or the Blackmagic MJPEG codec you get free with the card.

The codec and the bundled software suck harder than an industrial strength vacuum cleaner, so basically there's either CineForm or nothing, really.

Thanks, I'll be sure to save up some money and get that lol.

Jaxel
8th April 2008, 03:29
Open source solutions can do the same or better image quality, but not at anywhere close to the speed.

What open source software?

Jaxel
8th April 2008, 18:33
Right now I have a 2 disk RAID-0 array... with the new Western Digital 640AAWKS drives...

According to the Disk Speed Test, I can write at 175 MBps.

And at 8bit YUV 4:2:2, I can handle 720 at 100fps...

However, when I use the Blackmagic Media Express program to record 720p video in Uncompressed (since MJPEG is terrible), it often cuts off after about a minute, probably because it cant keep up. Shouldn't my hard drives be enough to handle the uncompressed video?

*EDIT*... new question... Why does MJPEG look different when I play it back, and when I view it in virtualdubmod? When it play it back in a media player, it looks like it has some really bad interlacing going on... but when I open it up in VDM... it looks amazingly good... Why is that?

MaggIvy
9th April 2008, 02:07
I think its been mentioned you'd need a 4 disk raid array in order to capture in uncompressed...two disc raid is for capturing with a lossless codec.

Blue_MiSfit
9th April 2008, 03:10
I've personally captured 1080p24 8 bit 4:2:2 to a 3x 250GB SATA RAID 0 array (Mac OS X software raid). It works, until the drives are a little over 1/2 to 2/3 full, then the array slows to a point where frame drops become unavoidable.

4 Drives should let you fill the array to a higher percentage without frame drops. 1.5gbps is a lot of data to sustain :D

Imagine that happening on a feature film shoot, where in the middle of the take you have to yell to the director "THE RAID'S DROPPING FRAMES" and either switch to DVCPRO HD capture (reduced resolution and lossy compression), or put things on hold for an hour or two so the RAID could be offloaded. That was a lot of fun.

Still, when it worked, we were getting (almost) CineAlta HDW-F900 quality video out of a <$20,000 camera + computer setup :D (Canon XL-H1 -> Blackmagic Multibridge Pro over HD-SDI -> Mac Pro running Final Cut Pro).

If we'd been running Windows with Premiere and CineForm NEO, we could've avoided RAID, and captured to a bank of fat drives, all day, without thinking twice about it. That's _huge_. Now they have a Mac OS X version of their software, so epic win on both fronts. See what I mean about being a seriously badass piece of software?

@Jaxel:
Any one of the powerful open-source codecs come to mind - namely x264, xvid.. If these could operate real-time, and look as good as CineForm does at the data rates it uses, that would be very impressive.

Regarding your Uncompressed capture issue - I don't know. I've heard the Blackmagic software is absolute shite. I never used it - just Premiere and Final Cut.

Regarding the JPEG issue - I think whatever media player you're using is trying to do something silly, like field match, or weave deinterlace. If the frames look good in VirtualDub that's all that matters. What media player and decoding chain are you using that creates interlacing artifacts when playing the 720p MJPEG stream?

~MiSfit

easy2Bcheesy
9th April 2008, 11:24
I'm fairly sure that XviD and x264 operate in the 4:2:0 colour space so even if it was theoretically possible to capture HD at the same speed as CineForm, you'd still be lacking chroma resolution. As it is, ffdshow's MJPEG chokes at 720p 30fps.

CineForm charge $250 for their codec because it's worth it, basically.

As said above, basically you have a choice between capturing uncompressed and spending a fortune on a RAID array, or capturing compressed with the same quality with the added benefit of small filesizes that are easy to copy about, easy to edit with etc.

I'm running a four disk RAID array here and you just can't edit multiple streams in realtime with uncompressed video.

More than that, there's also a very valid case of how much your time is worth. If you're farting about looking for a CineForm alternative, how many hours are you wasting doing so when there's a ready made solution available? How much are those hours of your personal time worth?

Jaxel
9th April 2008, 17:12
Alright... I see what you guys mean...

In the meantime... I heard that I can use VirtualDub to capture video with Intensity Pro... But whenever I select Capture AVI in VDM, it tells me no Capture Device Found... So can VDM capture the Intensity Pro?

Blue_MiSfit
9th April 2008, 23:08
I wouldn't use VirtualDubMod. It's very out of date. Try the latest VirtualDub 1.8.0 from Sourceforge. It's like... 5 years newer? :)

Also, easy2Bcheesy's post is total QFT. Right on the nail.

~MiSfit

Dot50Cal
12th April 2008, 23:25
I just had a harrowing experience updating my PV3. You needed to flash the firmware multiple times to run the latest PV app. I finally got the card working again. If anyone is attempting to do this, you probably shouldn't. I nearly ruined my card.