Problem with buttons after reencoding menu

[abysas]

After reencoding "Bourne Supremacy" PAL DVD with menu reencoding ON, I got weird menu behaviour on my standalone Philips DVP630. I see button highlights, but no buttons. Title menu is played correctly, but if I press Bonus or Language or Subtitle button, there is a transition video which should end with still menu with buttons. Instead it ends with the last frame (I guess) of transition menu video (which doesn’t have button images) and button highlights. I did no preprocessing, original DVD was ripped with DVD Decrypter, but not to ISO, but files. If I replace reencoded menus with original (using pgcedit) ones, then everything plays fine. Software player (PowerDVD) ALWAYS plays without any glitch. Only my standalone player. I tested resulted DVD on other player (Xoro) – the same weird effect.

Interesting thing, that PgcEdit SOMETIMES displayed the same behavior using trace mode, if I played it from burned CD, but not from the files on my hard disk. Then it showed black screen with highlight boundaries. But this behaviour is not persistent and next time it used to show correctly. Pgc preview and show menu window always display those cells correctly.

Used:
DVD-RB v1.20.5
CCE SP 2.70.02.04
ImgBurn v2.1.0.0

Here is my rebuider.ini:

[Options]
Mode=1
OneClick=0
ReduceOpt=0
NoWarn=1
AdditionalOutput=1
LogFile=1
QuEncHQ=1
EncoderMinimized=1
RemoveDTS=1
HC_Quality=1
HC_Matrix=1
SkinVersion=12
AudioDub=1
QuEncodeType=0
iDCT=0
GOP=0
DCPrec=0
MainMatrix=Encoder Default
LowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
VLowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ExtraMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ProCoder_Quality=4
DVD_Label=THE_BOURNE_SUPREMACY
DVD_Name=THE_BOURNE_SUPREMACY.ISO
MovieOnly=2
HalfD1=0000000000000000000
Convert_16_9=0000000000000000000
DisableInterlace=0000000000000000000
ConvertToYUY2=1
CCE=3
Skin=Rebuilder Default
NewEditor=1
Completed=7
Encode_Menus=1
Backcolor=14215660
SkipPrepare=1
EncoderPriority=1
[Paths]
QuEnc=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\QuEnc\QuEnc.exe
HC=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\HC Encoder\HCbatch.EXE
ProCoder=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\EclPro\EclPro.exe
DECOMB=C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll
MPEG2DEC=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\DGDecode.dll
Working=D:\Temp\
Output=D:\DVD OUT\THE_BOURNE_SUPREMACY\MENUS_ONLY\
CCENew=C:\Program Files\Custom Technology\CCE SP Trial Version\cctspt.exe
Source=D:\DVD OUT\THE_BOURNE_SUPREMACY\
[Audio]
Selected=1111111111111111111
Remapping=
[Subpictures]
Selected=1111111111111111111111111111111
[CCEOptions]
VBR_bias=25
Quality_prec=16
eclPasses=3

[kbello]

I reported the same sometime ago, same situation occurs with my standalone JVC. In my last backup, snakes on a plane, r1, with menu encoding ON i have the same results as before. No preprocessing.

[Geekman]

I see the same issue on my Apex standalone (~3 years old), but not on new Sony standalone player with these titles;

1) The Devil Wears Prada
- Used DVDFabDecrypter (latest) and DVD-RB w/ CCE Basic. No preprocessing to try to narrow this issue down.
- Does not display still for Special Features & Language Selection sub-menus on Apex; only see button highlights. Was going to try DVDShrink (deep analysis and 2-pass processing) version on Apex; haven't had time yet.

2) Pirates Of The Caribbean 2
- Does not display Scene Selection stills, only see button highlights on Apex. Used DVDShrink on same source files for Pirates, no issue on Apex or Sony players.

3) Monster House
- Does not display still after selecting an item in the Special Features sub-menu on Apex. (The Special Features sub-menu is animated.)

- Have not tried turning off menu encoding w/ DVD-RB on these titles.

-Seems to be related to ARccOS protected discs?

- And/or related to stills?

Used DVD-RB Pro 1.20.4
Latest CCE Basic
Latest RipIt4Me (unless otherwise noted)
Latest ImgBurn

EDIT: Tried "The Devil Wears Prada" 2pass DVDShrink ISO on the Apex standalone. Menus work fine.
Understand that jdobbs must be very busy. What can I do to help?

[jdobbs]

Hmmm... odd behaviour, that's for sure. I saw something like this a long time ago when the software was still in beta -- it was related to insertion of end-codes, but was corrected. There has to be something there... and it seems to be limited to only certain players... unfortunately I haven't been able to repeat it -- and I've really tried.

[abysas]

Thank you, jdobbs, for your reply and your excellent program.
I'll try to test this disc on other players my friends have. I could send it to you, if that could help you track the problem.

[therat]

This happened to me recently but I had Menu Encoding turned off. I found a workaround by using MenuShrink on the menu in the VIDEO_TS folder created by DVD-RB. I then burned it again with nero and it worked perfectly.

Strange but true. No idea why tho.

It only happened on one dvd, never before and so far never again.

[Geekman]

I agree that DVD-RB is a wonderful tool. The video quality w/ CCE is much better when compared to DVDShrink 2pass. I don't want to have to use Shrink (maybe DVD-RB menu encode off is better work around) for these problematic discs. I have seen the issue on 3 discs.

I can send the menu vobs for "Devil Wears Prada" directly copied from the DVDs if that helps. I have both the problematic & working DVDs. I can also include whatever else would help (IFOs, ini's, etc.)

[jdobbs]

I'd have to have two things to compare for sure so I can at least look for differences -- because I've never been able to repeat it, and that's after trying it on 6 different players (of which there are 5 different brands). I just did the NTSC, R1 version of "Devil Wears Prada" last week.

[kbello]

Thanks jdobbs for your work :)

[Geekman]

I tried emailing a rather large zip, but my mail server kept timing out. I'll have to pursue this issue with my ISP. :(

I sent an email to dvd-rb@dvd-rb.com asking for a temporary FTP account.

[Sharc]

I reported a similar case some time ago:
Menu selection (highlights) disappeared after few seconds on SW player, but worked fine on standalone .....
Maybe it's all related to the same issue?

[Zeul]

If the button highlights are turning OFF too early, then the end_ptm of the highlight is incorrect OR (more likely) that the image is a still and the end_ptm is NOT set to -1 (-1 tells the player to play the highlight layer until the cell times out).

@abysas
If the image is a black screen with highlight areas, then this sounds like either the CLUT in the ifo is incorrect or the subtitle command info has somehow got corrupted resulting in the sublayer showing at full contrast of 100% (but as the original subpkt is remuxed this seems unlikely)
If the cell type info is incorrect and somehow vobu still flag has been set then the player would pause at the end of the first vobu - now this *could* mean that no picture has actually been displayed yet (hence a black background).
Other possibility would be seq_end_code (00 00 01 B7) is being set incorrectly

[jdobbs]

In Rebuilder I keep the end_ptm from the original and use it for the reconstruction. I've looked at some of these that were sent to me before -- and at least on the ones I saw the new and original were both identical.

But -- something has to be wrong... I've just not been able to find it, and its been (so far) imposible for me to repeat. I'm dumbfounded.

[Geekman]

@jdobbs
Do you still want the two VTS 6 vob & ifos that I have for Devil Wears Prada?

If yes, the zip is 94MB and my ISP is choking on the email.

Please let me know what you want to do.
Thanks.

EDIT: I did a little digging w/ VobEdit on the VTS_06_0.vob files from DVD-RB & DVDShrink.
Attached are the NAVPACKs info that I dumped. I noticed this;
DVDShrink had:
[0041] End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code 48048 [0000bbb0]

DVD-RB had:
[0041] End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code 0 [00000000]

I don't know what PTM (Presentation Time?) means, but is this significant? The original had 48048.

[jdobbs]

Sorry -- I've been busy this weekend. I'll set up an account for transfer, probably tomorrow.

[Geekman]

Please see my edit above. Definitely understand "busy". I've got one of those days tomorrow. May not be able to see my team in the playoffs. :(

[Zeul]

@Geekman
That is very significant. I presume we are looking at a still here. The end_ptm in a still should be 1 frame greater than the start_ptm (for PAL that is 3600, for NTSC it is 3003), so with a start_ptm of 45045 the end_ptm will be 48048. (NB the final 4 bytes of the last video packet should be 00 00 01 B7 - these 4 bytes are the sequence_end_code).

btw use pgcdemux to demux. Set 'Create a PGC VOB' and then customize file and write nav pks ON, Write video packs ON, write only first I frame ON, write sub packs ON . (Patch LBA OFF, write audio packs OFF). It is worth leaving in the subs because then we can confirm that there are no errors in the sub packs.

This will create a vob with the critical data that jdobbs needs. Manually confirm the existance of the seq_end_codes (00 00 01 B7) in the final packet of each VOBID. You can find the LBA of the last packet from VTS_C_ADT tables in the IFO (use ifoedit)

Do this for the ORIGINAL and the REBUILDER created one (I am not interested in one from shrink)

The file size will now be very small, and you can email it (I wouldn't mind seeing them myself zeul (at) dvdplanner (dot) com)

[jdobbs]

@Geekman

Great feedback, thanks. I'm checking the code now. I've mounted the original and the DVD-RB version that I have and will do some testing. It would be really nice to put this one to bed!

Can you tell me which menu/still you are using in your example? There are quite a few stills in that VTS and all the ones I've looked at so far (in my backup from DVD-RB) have had the "End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code" set correctly (same as the original).

[jdobbs]

Can you tell me which menu/still you are using in your example? There are quite a few stills in that VTS and all the ones I've looked at so far (in my backup from DVD-RB) have had the "End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code" set correctly (same as the original).Never mind... I think I've found the one you were using in your example.

[Zeul]

Never mind... I think I've found the one you were using in your example.

Thats good news...I hope you find the bug.

[jdobbs]

I've found it and I'm testing the fix now.

[jdobbs]

@ abysas, kbello, Geekman, and Sharc

Please check your PM...

Thanks.

[Geekman]

Fix verified w/ Devil Wears Prada & Pirates Of The Caribbean 2 on Apex standalone.

Excellent work!

[kbello]

Here the menu encoding works fine with The Chronicles of Riddick r1 and The Lords of The Rings: Fellowship Of The Ring Limited Edition r1

Thanks jdobbs

[Zeul]

What was the error out of interest?

[James35]

I like to know as well :)

[kbello]

I did another test, i found a problem in my standalone with Star Wars Episode 1, in the language selection when I select button (example: English language) then highlights and buttons gone and i can't do nothing more

EDIT: I test with Media Player Classic and same behavior, except i can click the buttons but no highlights

[jdobbs]

What was the error out of interest?As mentioned earlier when a still is displayed the NAVPACK has to be updated with a "End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code" value. But when the EOF is reached in the video stream and not the audio playback -- NAVPACKs have to be output regularly for possible continuing audio stream(s).

As it turns out, under certain circumstances the video muxing routine was making calls to another routine which in turn had inserted NAVPACK(s). As a result, the "End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code" was set on the wrong NAVPACK. I just had to move the code for writing "End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code" so it was always hitting the correct NAVPACK. It appears that the majority of players accepted it.

[Geekman]

Am I correct to say that if the menu was a still, which in turn had background audio, e.g., music, then the issue would show up only on handfull of players?

[jdobbs]

Am I correct to say that if the menu was a still, which in turn had background audio, e.g., music, then the issue would show up only on handfull of players? Almost. You'd also have to add that it wouldn't always happen even in that scenario... but only when the circumstances would have called the other routine (and it inserted NAVPACKs). I'd have to do some analysis to see how likely that is to happen.

[Geekman]

Not to be a pain, what needs to happen to officially release the fix?
:helpful:

[jdobbs]

Nothing. I'm working on a couple more things to release along with it. I've been updating some parts of the authoring engine to correct for oddities in the source.

[abysas]

Mine "Bourne Supremacy" works perfectly with the new RB version as well. Thanks a lot, jdobbs, for your work and efforts. Very glad that this issue appears to be tracked at last. :)

[Sharc]

in the language selection when I select button (example: English language) then highlights and buttons gone and i can't do nothing more

EDIT: I test with Media Player Classic and same behavior, except i can click the buttons but no highlights

Similar case here, but happens only on SW player and stills menu. No problem on standalone.

[jdobbs]

I never trust software players as a final test... I've seen too many bugs in them.

@kbello

Any other pre or post processing involved when you see that issue? It just seems odd because so many others have backed up that DVD without any issues (that's a very popular disc).

[kbello]

@jdobbs

nope, it's weird, maybe is my standalone, only I have problems with star wars discs... i will do more tests this weekend with beta version

[jdobbs]

I'm shipping out an update today (v1.21). You should get it in your e-mail soon.

[kbello]

nice ;)

[Geekman]

You da man!

[jdobbs]

[Off topic] @Geekman: Da Bearsss. Tomorrow.

[kbello]

I just finish test band of brothers Disc 1 r1 with 1.21, that disc have a bunch still menus, and playing fine in my standalone :). I will try later again with star wars discs.

[jdobbs]

Band of Brothers... I love that series.

[Geekman]

[Off topic] @jdobbs Da NFC Champs!!!

[jdobbs]

I'm lovin' it... :D I'm watching now to see who they'll meet in the Super Bowl.

[mutenroid]

I did another test, i found a problem in my standalone with Star Wars Episode 1, in the language selection when I select button (example: English language) then highlights and buttons gone and i can't do nothing more

EDIT: I test with Media Player Classic and same behavior, except i can click the buttons but no highlights

I'm report same behaviour with Star Wars Episode 3, on a Pioneer 585A-K and DVDRebuilder 1.21 :(

[jdobbs]

Hmmm.... I though that was gone for good... is that the NTSC version?

[mutenroid]

Hmmm.... I though that was gone for good... is that the NTSC version?

No, it's PAL version.

I tested too with powerDVD software, and only the first time the DVD menu is loaded works well, if you entered in scene or audio menu option when back to main menu, buttons elements are displayed but it's impossible to select them using cursor keys.

[jdobbs]

Really weird -- I wonder what is different about those Star Wars Discs that brings this out? What software did you use to rip it?

How big is the VOB file that holds that menu?

[mutenroid]

Really weird -- I wonder what is different about those Star Wars Discs that brings this out? What software did you use to rip it?

How big is the VOB file that holds that menu?

I used anydvd 6.1.2.5, an screenshot of vobblanker shows the menu size.

I tried to recompress only the main menu (-50%) and untouch rest of movie with same results. If the menu is altered the navigation fails.

Perhaps Starwars dvd's are special editions, each episode have like a multiangle menu. Today i will test with other movie like "minority report" that have a standard menu.

Sorry for my english :(

[ruedas]

After reencoding "Bourne Supremacy" PAL DVD with menu reencoding ON, I got weird menu behaviour on my standalone Philips DVP630. I see button highlights, but no buttons. Title menu is played correctly, but if I press Bonus or Language or Subtitle button, there is a transition video which should end with still menu with buttons. Instead it ends with the last frame (I guess) of transition menu video (which doesn’t have button images) and button highlights. I did no preprocessing, original DVD was ripped with DVD Decrypter, but not to ISO, but files. If I replace reencoded menus with original (using pgcedit) ones, then everything plays fine. Software player (PowerDVD) ALWAYS plays without any glitch. Only my standalone player. I tested resulted DVD on other player (Xoro) – the same weird effect.


Dont use powerdvd to test for missing buttons. Powerdvd will ever show buttons no matter what. Use media player classic with codecs installed. Also if you have a console like an xbox360 it tends to dislike buttons. If buttons run fine with xbox360 they will run in every single dvd player.

I often find this kind of behavior after messing with the menus with vobblanker. Not with menushrink.

Also i only found missing buttons with RBD unmodified menu only two times.

When i find this kind of behavior in unmodified dvds i do a vobblanker or fixvts pass and they tend to fix buttons. Vobblanker only messes the buttons when modifying that particular cell in the menu.

One time I quickly fixed it with fixvts and the pgcedited for timetables. Then the other one i had to import buttons from original still.

Those were old very old versions or RBD. Havent seen this behavior since many versions ago. I sometimes see that RBD fails to try to compress some menus. I manually do with other tools then fix timetables and all and only if I somehow ended up with a slightly bigger dvd than expected.

[ruedas]

No, it's PAL version.

I tested too with powerDVD software, and only the first time the DVD menu is loaded works well, if you entered in scene or audio menu option when back to main menu, buttons elements are displayed but it's impossible to select them using cursor keys.

never test a dvd for correct menus with powerdvd. In my opinion. Buttons and menus work great in powerdvd and then standalone players fail to highlight those very same buttons. I use media player classic and codecs

[mutenroid]

Dont use powerdvd to test for missing buttons. Powerdvd will ever show buttons no matter what. Use media player classic with codecs installed. Also if you have a console like an xbox360 it tends to dislike buttons. If buttons run fine with xbox360 they will run in every single dvd player.

I often find this kind of behavior after messing with the menus with vobblanker. Not with menushrink.

Also i only found missing buttons with RBD unmodified menu only two times.

When i find this kind of behavior in unmodified dvds i do a vobblanker or fixvts pass and they tend to fix buttons. Vobblanker only messes the buttons when modifying that particular cell in the menu.

One time I quickly fixed it with fixvts and the pgcedited for timetables. Then the other one i had to import buttons from original still.

Those were old very old versions or RBD. Havent seen this behavior since many versions ago. I sometimes see that RBD fails to try to compress some menus. I manually do with other tools then fix timetables and all and only if I somehow ended up with a slightly bigger dvd than expected.

I don't like menushrink because don't encode movie menu, i like movie menu but reencoded with less size. It's a weird problem for dvdrebuilder and i hope jdobbs resolve this issue :)

At this time i'm rebuilding "minority report", it has almost 1 GB of menu. I will comment the results when it finishes :rolleyes:

[mutenroid]

minority report was successfully, menu encoding great (around 40%) and navigation without errors. Only Star Wars dvd's have problems.

[mutenroid]

I tried Star Wars Episode II and same problem, but if you rewind a little inside main menu the selection highlights again. It's possible to fix this problem with pgcedit? if true how can i do?

Thanks

[ruedas]

I use menushrink for two things. When I like to turn to stills or kill some intro/outros.

Second use i have for menushirnk is when dvd-rb or vobblanker somehow mess up the dvd menus buttons. I found this behavior with second cell that loops preceding the first cell intro. If I let the first intro to finish they are kept there for the second cell. If I run a root menu from anywhere and get into the looping cell I get missing button images. Of course menu still works they just dont show. In some other examples of menu misbehaving they just dont show at all. Somehow it tends to happen with looping stills with audio. Run Menushrink and keep everything dont kill or shrink anything that has fixed all my vobblanker and dvd-rb missing button issues.

Hope it helps you too.

[jdobbs]

That's good to know. Maybe I can trace how that set of actions could link to a problem.

[mutenroid]

Well i'm a new Vip member :p

Tested DVD-RB 1.22 (menu encoding activated) with Star Wars Episode I, II & III.....and same problem :( I hope 1.23 version fix it.

Thanks

[mutenroid]

Well i'm a new Vip member :p

Tested DVD-RB 1.22 (menu encoding activated) with Star Wars Episode I, II & III.....and same problem :( I hope 1.23 version fix it.

Thanks

Same movies tested again with 1.23.1 version and problem is not fixed.

[jdobbs]

It's something peculiar about those Star Wars discs... but nothing I can find as yet.

[mutenroid]

A possible temporal solution with pgcedit 8 (after reading a bit of documentation):

-Open dvd source
-File > PGC Commands > Export all PGC Commands
-Close current DVD and open DVD processed (with dvd-rb)
-File > PGC Commands > Import all PGC Commands

I am missing some other option?

I'll try this night ;)

[mutenroid]

A possible temporal solution with pgcedit 8 (after reading a bit of documentation):

-Open dvd source
-File > PGC Commands > Export all PGC Commands
-Close current DVD and open DVD processed (with dvd-rb)
-File > PGC Commands > Import all PGC Commands

I am missing some other option?

I'll try this night ;)

Bad news, don't work.

[mutenroid]

Same movies tested again with 1.23.2 version and problem is not fixed.

Jdobbs, if you want i send the ifo or other files to found the problem, what do you need?

thanks

[mutenroid]

Same movies tested again with 1.23.2 version and problem is not fixed.

Jdobbs, if you want i send the ifo or other files to found the problem, what do you need?

thanks

DVD-RB v1.24 don't fix this problem :rolleyes:

[jdobbs]

It's something that happens on only that particular set of DVDs, so it's not a high priority.