how can I do seamless link for an alternate ending to a movie, no pausing

[BilboFett]

I've posted on other forums and gotten such a wide variety of suggestions I'm afraid I've gotten nowhere.
I'm remastering an old movie from laserdisc, and now have an alternate ending. I would like to add this via seamless link, like when you select the "play movie with extended ending" button in the DVD menu, it plays the normal movie for about 95%, and then just before the normal movie ends, it jumps to the different ending, with no pause.
I don't want to encode 2 different, entire-whole movies on my DVD.
Some advice I've gotten is: do a title playlist in DVD Lab Pro, or do a chapter playlist. Or, in DVD Architect, do a "mixed angle" version and have it switch to the alternate angle just for the alternate ending.
Some say what I want to do is impossible without the player doing some sort of pause. Others say its 100% possible. I can't seem to get a straight answer.
Any logic or advice? :( Thanks.

[mpucoder]

This is called multi-story interleaving, and available only on expensive authoring programs. The least expensive is AfterEdit, but it runs only on Macs. MuxMan can do a pseudo multi-story interleave if the two parts are short (around 20 to 45 seconds)

[BilboFett]

The regular ending runs about 5 minutes. The extended ending runs about 7.5 minutes. So I want to cut in about 2.5 minutes. This isn't possible with anything like DVD Lab, DVD Architect, TMPGENC?


This is called multi-story interleaving, and available only on expensive authoring programs. The least expensive is AfterEdit, but it runs only on Macs. MuxMan can do a pseudo multi-story interleave if the two parts are short (around 20 to 45 seconds)

[DaRat]

You can still make it to mixed angle, but if you do you have to add 2.5 mins blackness (or whatever) at the end of the regular one, that's up to you to decide. This one you can make seamless, with GPRMs or by fooling around with playlists.

[BilboFett]

If its another angel, I need the "other" sound source as well...

[BilboFett]

You can still make it to mixed angle, but if you do you have to add 2.5 mins blackness (or whatever) at the end of the regular one, that's up to you to decide. This one you can make seamless, with GPRMs or by fooling around with playlists.

If I do a mixed angel, don't I need to have the new sound from the alternate ending there as well? I thought an angel was just a camera angel (it doesn't change the audio)??

[DaRat]

if you do seamless multi-angle then you need 2 full soundtracks for the movie otoh if you do it non-seamless than each video track can have it's own soundtrack so you only need duplicated sound for the end part. I don't know how to create non-semaless multi-angle in any other app than Scenarist, but taking 448k ac3 for 2hrs it's still only like 300 megs additional space used if you use a extra full length audio.

[Zeul]

if you do seamless multi-angle then you need 2 full soundtracks for the movie otoh if you do it non-seamless than each video track can have it's own soundtrack so you only need duplicated sound for the end part. I don't know how to create non-semaless multi-angle in any other app than Scenarist, but taking 448k ac3 for 2hrs it's still only like 300 megs additional space used if you use a extra full length audio.

partly incorrect.
Seamless angles use the SAME audio streams, so you only need one. At the angle block, the player selects the video angle to play (as can you with the Angle button). NB the video must be encoded Closed GOP, each angle must have the same GOP pattern, the same # of frames and have very similar bitrates, so the video size are very similar. Also the angle block must start on a new scene and finish on a scene:

CELL1 | CELL2 ANGLE1 | CELL3
CELL1 | CELL2 ANGLE2 | CELL3
|Audio................................|
etc

The difference with non-seamless is that each angle uses its' own audio streams, however, it only requires new audio for the Angle Block not the entire movie. The video restrictions are also more relaxed EXCEPT the framecount.

You can create angle blocks in Scenarist, DVDMaestro and DVDlab-Pro but to name a few. Upcoming versions of DVDPlanner and Muxman will also support angles, and probably multi-storey (multi-angle version of DVDPlanner is currently in Beta stage, as i believe Muxman is?)

Hope that helps

[BilboFett]

partly incorrect.
Seamless angles use the SAME audio streams, so you only need one. At the angle block, the player selects the video angle to play (as can you with the Angle button). NB the video must be encoded Closed GOP, each angle must have the same GOP pattern, the same # of frames and have very similar bitrates, so the video size are very similar. Also the angle block must start on a new scene and finish on a scene:

CELL1 | CELL2 ANGLE1 | CELL3
CELL1 | CELL2 ANGLE2 | CELL3
|Audio................................|
etc

The difference with non-seamless is that each angle uses its' own audio streams, however, it only requires new audio for the Angle Block not the entire movie. The video restrictions are also more relaxed EXCEPT the framecount.

You can create angle blocks in Scenarist, DVDMaestro and DVDlab-Pro but to name a few. Upcoming versions of DVDPlanner and Muxman will also support angles, and probably multi-storey (multi-angle version of DVDPlanner is currently in Beta stage, as i believe Muxman is?)

Hope that helps

Zeul, so can I do a seamless angel where it jumps to the video angel of the alternate ending, and just have the normal ending (for that part) be the exact same duration/GOP/I-frames but have it just be a black picture, and use the extended ending audio?
Wait a minute.. I've just destroyed my normal ending and would have to figure out how to get it back... and it seems the only way I could, if I've already created this other ending, would be non seamless :(
why is this so hard?

[BilboFett]

Does anyone know if the Abyss SE is a DVD-9 or DVD-18? And are DVD-18's just 2 DVD 9's glued together?

[Zeul]

I am a little confused. As i understood your original post you wanted both endings available and be able to select whichever ending you wanted to play. So why would you have destroyed the original ending??

If you have changed your mind and now want 95% original and the new alternate ending ONLY then:

Mux the original video & audio and set a chapter point at the point you want the alternate to start. Now demux cell1 only to give the 'main' video & audio, and then demux cell2 (pgcdemux can do this), to give the correct audio for the ending.

In a authoring app, create 2 tracks, 1 for the main and one for the ending. Add both tracks to a single PGC. Track 2 will then play automatically after track1. If your authoring app supports it, set the flag of program2 (ie the ending) to be SEAMLESS.

This will avoid any need for angles.

[BilboFett]

[QUOTE=Zeul;926027]I am a little confused. As i understood your original post you wanted both endings available and be able to select whichever ending you wanted to play. So why would you have destroyed the original ending??

I would have destroyed my original ending using the mixed angel approach because in order to have the alternate ending as another angel, I have to make the original angel nothing but black screen and use the audio from the alternate ending. The times don't match. So I have to make the original ending just black space that matches in time, GOP, bitrate, etc. the video for the alternate ending. Therefore, if I wanted to play the movie with the normal ending, there's no way to do that, because I've just replaced it with black and different audio.

[BilboFett]

It seems I've learned one thing from all this; that going to my alternate ending seamlessly is impossible. There will be some sort of pause no matter what. So now I'm taking votes; between a title playlist and a chapter playlist, which seems to have less of a pause? The mixed angel is not a choice because I have to destroy (replace with black and different audio) my original ending to get it to work.

[BilboFett]

Let me be more direct. Will a chapter playlist made in DVD Lab Pro cause a slight pause at EACH and every chapter point (not just the ending) while I'm casually watching my movie?

[Zeul]

No, chapters are actually just markers in the IFO. The vob will still be seamlessly muxed.