Domination of MKV and MP4 in this forum

[multicone]

The forums seems to get quieter and quieter, and 95% of all threads are about MKV and MP4.

I wonder how you see it (first poll for a while i guess ;) ):

Can both coexist ?

[Kurtnoise]

The forums seems to get quieter and quieter, and 95% of all threads are about MKV and MP4.
I don't think so...

Can both coexist ?
Of course.

[bond]

no doubt they can coexist

mkv is the allround container for combining everything, aka the "new avi"

mp4 is for gaining interoperability with new audio and video formats of mpeg, aka the "new mpg"

[mahsah]

no doubt they can coexist

mkv is the allround container for combining everything, aka the "new avi"

mp4 is for gaining interoperability with new audio and video formats of mpeg, aka the "new mpg"

I heartily agree. You can stick pretty much any thing in an MKV, but because of this it is better for just plain movie playing. MP4 is better because it is a standard, and thus has more hardware support, as well as streaming capabilities.

[Manao]

mp4 is for gaining interoperability with new audio and video formats of mpegActually, I'm more and more dubious about the use of MP4. MKV is more versatile, blueray & hddvd won't use it. MP4 exists at the moment only through Nero. I don't think it's enough.

[bond]

Actually, I'm more and more dubious about the use of MP4. MKV is more versatile, blueray & hddvd won't use it. MP4 exists at the moment only through Nero. I don't think it's enough.Itunes, ipod, PSP, all big avc encoders support mp4...

edit: hey, even m$ zune supports mp4 ;)

[Manao]

Itunes/Ipod support MOV, which is close enough to MP4 for them to incidentally support MP4. PSP supports a "proprietary" MP4 format, since it asks for its atom. And AVC encoders aren't generally made to encode audio, so the muxing stage doesn't matter for them ( except Nero ).

[Drachir]

I am more interested if there will be more support for the SceneDescription by the players in the next 5-10 years. Will Apple come up with a Player or Sony? They should know enough about mp4, at least some of there people( http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/technologies/mp04-mp4-ff/ ).
To me, it looks that Nero ignores the SceneDescription of MP4 files, even if the files are created by Nero Recode. So I would say the MP4 support from Nero isn't different from the one from Apple/Sony.

[DarkZell666]

I'd like to see them coexist, but without them ignoring each other, or even competing with each other. Standalone player manufacturers and software makers ought to start considering MKV a bit more seriously, but as long as MP4 is completely supported (and not partially like it's the case ATM), MP4 should be kind of "enough" for every day use: avc/asp video, multiple aac audio, subs and chapters... the minimum for complete home DVD backups =)

[bond]

Itunes/Ipod support MOV, which is close enough to MP4 for them to incidentally support MP4.joking? ipod and itunes support .mp4 with aac, avc and sp. there might be limits regarding the video coding tools supported, resolution aso, but thats not the problem of the container

of course apple might have chosen to support mp4, because its similar to their own format mov, but who cares about the "why", what matters is that they support mp4

PSP supports a "proprietary" MP4 format, since it asks for its atom.not true anymore. psp supports totally normal mp4 now without needing those extra atoms

[Manao]

not true anymore. psp supports totally normal mp4 now without needing those extra atomsMy bad, I wasn't aware of that.

Still, you'd agree to say that those using MP4 for playing back on PSP or Ipod would do so only because it's force upon them. It'd also mean that you'd voluntarily cripple the quality of your video ( not because of the way the container is supported, though ), making such a video not quite suitable for archiving purposes.

In the end, I can't find any reason to use MP4, if I don't own either an Ipod or a PSP.

[CruNcher]

@Manao

You absolutely right they are forced to support it just look @ the tagging the PSP supports nothing of the Apple .m4a tagging only Mp3 and it's Atrac stuff works 100% properly but that is so gruesome with all the Directorys that have to exist and file extensions you never ever heared of it's like hell.

And then this (§/$)§$ Video resolution restriction now that UMD is almost dead i thought Sony would decide to open at least 480x272 full display res for average joe but i was wrong they even go as far starting to sell Memory Sticks with 3 Movies that are encoded even lower then 320x240, only their Download stuff wich is heavily encrypted is able to use the full 480x272 and above what is this &$/$( we have todo something against such misuse of technology restrictions fast (make the customers aware of it) it's absolutely imoral todo such stuff.
Sooner or later they have to adapt to the IPOD if 640x480 can be used by normal customers their.
But this is horror only because of market situation stuff is opened and closed here, this has to stop.
I mean DRM Media is one (bad) thing but starting to use DRM techniques with stuff like resolutions for different content is another (worse) thing they start puting on us. WE START GETING PAYED FOR SELF USE OF RESOLUTION, THAT CANT BE TRUE
I just wait for the day Sony announces if you wan't 480x272 you have to pay us xxx amount (wich is in one way allready the case because of their Store stuff that uses Higher Resolution and you getting charged for).
The PSP was my first gadget from Sony and true technology wise it is up to the top but i learned the Hard way what it means to give his rights away of the Machine (PSP) to the company you (bought ???) borrowed it from. (You constantly have to beg (pray) for support)
The PS3 is less restricted in the way you can produce yourself even HD content for it, but i can't say for sure as i have none to test it's restrictions i just heared that it works. Stuff that in the last century was a natural thing like resolution for example now becomes a payed thing, because its possible to restrict it now in the Devices (with very less effort just a line of code) and get payed for it (not only on the content side).

[SeeMoreDigital]

You absolutely right they are forced to support it just look @ the tagging the PSP supports nothing of the Apple .m4a tagging only Mp3 and it's Atrac stuff works 100% properly but that is so gruesome with all the Directorys that have to exist and file extensions you never ever heared of it's like hell.Sony and Apple should have done things properly and followed the ISO MPEG-4 specification in the first place ;)

[zambelli]

MKV can't possibly beat out MP4 until it gets native platform support in either MacOS or Windows. Everything else is wishful thinking.

[CruNcher]

@SeeMoreDigital
hmm yeah but do you really think they wan't that i doubt they do, they want to make each of their lifes as hard as possible and in the end we have the problems (interoperability), if i read everything about the different DRM platforms existing i get sick that is never gonna work up for us consumers not if they don't agree for 1 standard (the coming years will be damn painfull), bu everything the industry is deciding @ the moment is such a big hit it and even will change our Society and how we see values and stuff we even don't realize yet, as i said in my other post i'ts like the time when the A-bomb has been invented more bad then good will come from this for sure.

@zambelli
it allready works on everything for the consumer (except standalones) and the more content comes with it the sooner you can belive will be Standalone support coming for it history showed that and that is what count's not where it is natively embedded, but yeah typical Microsoft thinking, lets force WM usage and we have the power over everything. But maybe you didn't realized it yet but WM is loseing and Apple and Mp4 is winning more ground every day, it's cool to see the Zune supporting it must be hard for M$ to see it isn't the other way arround.

[zambelli]

it allready works on everything for the consumer (except standalones) and the more content comes with it the sooner you can belive will be Standalone support coming for it history showed that and that is what count's not where it is natively embedded, but yeah typical Microsoft thinking, lets force WM usage and we have the power over everything. But maybe you didn't realized it yet but WM is loseing and Apple and Mp4 is winning more ground every day, it's cool to see the Zune supporting it must be hard for M$ to see it isn't the other way arround.
I knew you were going to turn this into some political anti-MS rant. I didn't even mention WMV but you found a way to drag it into the discussion.

Read again and try to pay attention: MKV will not beat MP4 as long as MP4 has better native OS support. It's already losing that battle on MacOS, and with the way Zune is going, I think you can figure out which one stands a better chance of gaining support on Windows. Don't want to talk about desktop OS? OK, how about mobile OS? Where's MKV support on cell phones and PDAs? You've heard of 3GP, right? Let me know when ITU-T or ISO standardize Matroska.

I think Matroska is a good format, but I'm just being realistic here, with no bias toward either format.

[Manao]

It's already losing that battle on MacOSNot that much : as soon as people produce video without quicktime, quicktime isn't able to playback them. It's not a container issue, but it sure doesn't help. VLC is becoming the media player for mac guys.with the way Zune is goingWill you support completely ASP and AVC ?

[zambelli]

Not that much : as soon as people produce video without quicktime, quicktime isn't able to playback them. It's not a container issue, but it sure doesn't help. VLC is becoming the media player for mac guys.Will you support completely ASP and AVC ?
I didn't work on the Zune stuff so I don't know personally - but this page would sure make it sound so: http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/software.htm. If the next question is "Are these DShow filters and will they work outside of Zune Player?" - the answer is "I don't know" to that one too. :)

[Manao]

MPEG4 (.mp4, .m4v, .mov): Simple Profile, all bitrates, and resolutionsNo ASPH.264 (.mp4, .m4v, .mov): Baseline and Main Profile, all bitrates and resolutionsNo high profile ( blueray, hddvd )AAC (.mp4, .m4a, .m4b, .mov): All bitrates, Low Complexity (LC)No SBR/PS ( but that doesn't matter that much for DVD ripps ).

[check]

I suspect both formats have a long and fruitful life ahead of them.
MKV is far more technically capable than MP4 in most repects - it supports more formats and has a slightly lower overhead (at least with simpleblock, which means no subtitles. Possibly in normal mode too). Muxing the contents to mp4 (transmuxing is not a word :P) is a painless process for anyone on this forum and others of similar technical interest in this whole shemozzle.
On the other hand, MP4 is going to become an industry standard, and in many ways it already is one. It supports everything that will be asked of it by professional groups in the coming years; but more importantly, it has the weight of the MPEG group and various other heavy hitters behind it.

Neither format will dominate the other because both serve different markets. While there is a reasonable overlap, both have exclusive markets which will not be touchable by the other (vorbis, et al support for mkv, industry backing by mkv).

I'll personally continue to use MKV for a long time, it supports some features MP4 does not which I like taking advantage of and has a significantly better muxing frontend in the form of mmg.

[vlada]

I think that the most important thing is how an average Joe sees these formats. They know MP4 as a format for low quality movies and music in portable devices (mostly cell phones). On the other hand many people have seen HD movies in MKV container. They don't know it is thanks to x264 or XviD codec, which can be used for MP4 too.

For uninformed users MP4 = low quality, MKV = very high quality. I know it doesn't make sense but this the way people see it. And I think this is a big advantage for Matroska, which they can use.

[DarkZell666]

On the other hand many people have seen HD movies in MKV container. They don't know it is thanks to x264 or XviD codec, which can be used for MP4 too.They obviously have to know, because they usually have a fight with every single codec they can find until the file plays in WMP XD (unless they were smart enough to install ffdshow and use MPC, that is ;)).

Still, you'd agree to say that those using MP4 for playing back on PSP or Ipod would do so only because it's force upon them. This is just sooooo true ... :/ And I'll add Nero to the list too, with their SAP certifications ...

[check]

I think that the most important thing is how an average Joe sees these formats. They know MP4 as a format for low quality movies and music in portable devices (mostly cell phones). On the other hand many people have seen HD movies in MKV container. They don't know it is thanks to x264 or XviD codec, which can be used for MP4 too.

For uninformed users MP4 = low quality, MKV = very high quality. I know it doesn't make sense but this the way people see it. And I think this is a big advantage for Matroska, which they can use.
Too subjective, and anyway, people at this level would probably not even have extensions enabled in windows explorer :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

I think that the most important thing is how an average Joe sees these formats. They know MP4 as a format for low quality movies and music in portable devices (mostly cell phones). On the other hand many people have seen HD movies in MKV container. They don't know it is thanks to x264 or XviD codec, which can be used for MP4 too.
What a bizarre line of thinking these "some people" have then....

What a shame they don't know how easy it is to mux say, high-def (1920x1080) MPEG-2 streams into MP4 and add their own chapter points then!

Whatever the resolution, MPEG-1, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video streams work perfectly in the MP4 container :D

[vlada]

Too subjective, and anyway, people at this level would probably not even have extensions enabled in windows explorer :D

Windows Explorer shows extensions of unknown file types. They also know they had to install Matroska.... something to play the files :)

[Henrikx]

Whatever the resolution, MPEG-1, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video streams work perfectly in the MP4 container
Yes, works very well (Thanks Yamb)
MKV also can do this,and still ac3 und MP3 VBR...:) (Thanks mkvmerge GUI)
I always ask myself, does anybody know MKV outside the User's Video/DVD forums?

[GodofaGap]

Obviously, both formats can "live" side to side. Although, the "interoperability" of MP4 has not lived up to its expectations at all and I think it is quite true to say that most people only use it because it is forced upon them.

MKV can't possibly beat out MP4 until it gets native platform support in either MacOS or Windows. Everything else is wishful thinking.
MP4 is knocking itself out I'm afraid. An MS re-incarnation of Ipod/PSP will not improve its case, it's just more of the same thing and we still have to wait if Zune will be any kind of succes at all.

Again, both formats can live side by side, but at least Matroska seems to be good at what it's doing right now. I wish I could say the same for MP4. It should have add simplicity for the user, but doesn't appear to do so at all. The succesfulness (if it can be called that anyway) of it now is due to a lack of something better. And that's rather sad since even in MP4 itself there is still a lot more potential than can be seen now.

But unfortunately quality doesn't come in numbers, money does. So as long as people will buy beneath mediocre products who is to be blamed anyway?

[Mtz]

I will tell my (the average Joe with standalone) opinion from the standalone support:
- MKV not supported in any standalone and maybe never in the future, so not interesting for me
- MP4 for me is 2 types: the one created by Nero, and the another. The differences between them is that Nero create Mp4 with subtitles which can be used in SAP. "The other" is not interesting for me because no subtitles support. And in the subtitles made with some applications other than Nero I cannot set the desired font. And even I can set, I can't see the subtitle stream in SAP.

For SAP, I saw that only DivX inc, and Nero are working with the manufactures. When one of them will implement support for AVC we will have a new generation of players for divx containers and mp4.

enjoy,
Mtz

[bond]

Mtz, you dont need nero for placing subs in mp4.

[KoD]

Does Nero place TTXT subs in MP4 ? Because if not, it's yet another "hack".

[SeeMoreDigital]

Does Nero place TTXT subs in MP4 ? Because if not, it's yet another "hack".As far as I know Recode2 does not offer the option of generating TTXT subtitles... It generates and places VOBsubs into MP4 as a private stream!

[KoD]

Which means it's not unlikely that only Nero "approved" SAPs will be able to display those subtitles. Yet another "proprietary" flavour of mp4.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Which means it's not unlikely that only Nero "approved" SAPs will be able to display those subtitles. Yet another "proprietary" flavour of mp4.Very true....

However, it's not necessarily Nero's fault that SAP manufacturers can't be bothered to include a TTXT decoder engine within devices - whether they be primarily built to support the .MP4 container and/or .AVI container...

[bond]

Which means it's not unlikely that only Nero "approved" SAPs will be able to display those subtitles. Yet another "proprietary" flavour of mp4.its not "another proprietary flavour of mp4", its placing vobsubs as private stream in mp4

in avi every stream is a private stream

[vlada]

Mtz
Nero has support for AVC already for a long time (I think more then 2 years). Do you know that most of DivX a Nero certified players won't play MPEG-4 created by DivX and Nero?

[joseph5]

They obviously have to know, because they usually have a fight with every single codec they can find until the file plays in WMP XD.
Or they can install 20 codec packs until the file plays, never knowing the codecs used.

[Mtz]

Mtz
Nero has support for AVC already for a long time (I think more then 2 years). Do you know that most of DivX a Nero certified players won't play MPEG-4 created by DivX and Nero?
Some Standalone Players can play a .divx file with all features. H E R E (http://www.sendspace.com/file/9z8eaj) you can find a capture made from a player which is able to play a divx file with all features: menu, chapters, subtitles streams, buttons; all are included in one DivX file and as you can see, is like a DVD.
Also can be played mp4 with 2 subtitles streams, but the subtitles are available only if the mp4 is created with Nero. But no AVC in players I tested. I heard that Fujitsu is working at some chipset for HD and H.264. But I hope Mediatek will make it also. (Yeah, I'm a Mediatek fan). :rolleyes:

enjoy,
Mtz

[Hyper Shinchan]

Some Standalone Players can play a .divx file with all features. Here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/9z8eaj) you can find a capture made from a player which is able to play a divx file with all features: menu, chapters, subtitles streams, buttons; all are included in one DivX file and as you can see, is like a DVD.
Also can be played mp4 with 2 subtitles streams, but the subtitles are available only if the mp4 is created with Nero. But no AVC in players I tested. I heard that Fujitsu is working at some chipset for HD and H.264. But I hope Mediatek will make it also. (Yeah, I'm a Mediatek fan). :rolleyes:

enjoy,
Mtz

".divx file hacking" (it's a shame only to give it the name "file format") is just an hack of avi, and like it was showed in an othe r recent topic, we are reaching absurd level with this avi hacking (N-VOPs introduced by DivX network themselves is another example, anyway bond made a long list of thing that make avi annoying today (workaround and hacking): http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=917271#post917271
Then if we start to consider avi as a possible future standard just coz standalone player support divx menu we are really out of our objective.
I think that mp4 in the end can have a chanche to "defeat" mkv, but only at two condition:
someone (who said Nero? XD) must introduce a private stream that will become an almost-standard like vob-subs one to store AC-3 audio (it's a big problem right now coz too many guys want to reencode the video but not the audio.... I don't fully understand them, but otherwise I'm not an audio manuiac).
There must be a wider diffusion of program that allow to encode directly into mp4 and (more important thing) editing it. I think that both could be reached if someone want to do it, including the mux and cutting-editing ability of a program like MP4Box in a program like VirtualDub (I said like, coz I think that it would be better to use external cli encoder than the painful vfw M$ codecs). But this is just my opinion.
The reality is that MP4 is already the leader in the handeld world (3GPP, PSP; IPOD; the fact that also Zune support it (I didn't know it, it really give me a strong feeling XD) is the proof of the mp4 dominion in this area (well mp3 is still the more used format and generic mp3 players lack mp4 support but the situation is changing), and it has a lot more chanches than mkv to become widespread in the standalone players too (industry like MP4 and I can understand them, it works so well from 15, if we consider that basically in the file format there are minimal differences between MOV and ISOMedia files).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Also can be played mp4 with 2 subtitles streams, but the subtitles are available only if the mp4 is created with Nero.Actually, it's possible to use YAMB/MP4Box to mux IDX/SUB (VOBsub) subtitle streams directly into the MP4 container now too!

If only DivX had put as much effort into supporting the MP4 container - eh. Too late for such wishful thinking now!!!!

And Nero seem far too busy with other stuff, to help push the development of menu's for the MP4 container :(

[foxyshadis]

Does Nero place TTXT subs in MP4 ? Because if not, it's yet another "hack".

Why would it? OCR is fraught with errors and a sometimes very manual, laborous process. Subrip's premade definitions are good, but still mean at a minimum checking every line and probably correcting a few. That process doesn't fit into a turnkey backup at all! (Plus it'd add a few bucks to the price and knowing nero, push the download over the 200M border.)

I accept that it could go with the CDDB-style solution, and store certified good subs to thousands of movies, but they aren't that customer-centric anymore.

[Kurtnoise]

I think that mp4 in the end can have a chance to "defeat" mkv, but only at two condition:

someone (who said Nero? XD) must introduce a private stream that will become an almost-standard like vob-subs one to store AC-3 audio.
Well...useless imo. AC3 format is almost dead and replaced by AAC right now regarding container specs. Check out the developpement from Nero Digital in this area. Sounds great...So I don't think that Nero will focus on this.

There must be a wider diffusion of program that allow to encode directly into mp4 and (more important thing) editing it. I think that both could be reached if someone want to do it, including the mux and cutting-editing ability of a program like MP4Box in a program like VirtualDub.
What about Avidemux ? It's a good start. A new branch is on the way...

[Mtz]

".divx file hacking" (it's a shame only to give it the name "file format")
Did you looked at the example from the link provided by me H E R E (http://www.sendspace.com/file/9z8eaj)? I think that nobody saw that small movie to see how far is .divx from mkv and mp4. Kurtnoise13 knows something about how to create it.
Regarding standalones and support, I tell you from my experience (over 4.000 mails readed and answered and 3.000 forum posts regarding this). All SAP (excepting one) have small subtitles when you buy it. Them are very ugly and hard to read. The users need an alternative: firmware with good subtitles or some file which include the subtitles stream in it. What they have regarding this?
1. some players (Mediatek and only some ESS) have unofficial firmware for better subtitles. This is the best option.
2. mkv cannot be used and is useless for them
3. mp4 with subtitles can be made simple with Nero but they don't make this. Also there are not many players with mp4 support, many of them have a bug which freeze the player when switching between subtitles.
4. using idx/sub; here is a problem: most players cannot show the correct colors and them are not usable. The firmware need hacked again, or the idx/sub to be inserted in the .divx file.
5. using .divx. If the user doesn't want menues, only inserting the subs, take 5 minutes.

Finally, I think an avi DVDRip at 2GB size with all the things in the .divx file is a good alternative for quality at this moment, because of the weak support from standalones for mp4.

enjoy,
Mtz

[vlada]

I accept that it could go with the CDDB-style solution, and store certified good subs to thousands of movies, but they aren't that customer-centric anymore.

This would be probably illegal.

Mtz
I wasn't talking about menus, subtitles etc. I meant q-pel, b-frames, n-vops, packed bitstream, gmc etc. Try to make a movie in Nero Recode with GMC on and show me a player that can play it. An unknown German player Siemssen is probably the only one.

According to AVC - there are already many portable players which can play AVC. But usually only low resolution and baseline or main profile. Anyway the chips are already here.

[Mtz]

The average Joe doesn't know anything about what you said. He want to make the movie simple, quick, and at the maximum quality. And in many forum and mails I read this question: "Which is the best codec in the world?". So, what answer to give him? Avisynth, q-pel, b-frames, n-vops, packed bitstream, gmc, H.264 and command lines?
Like already you said, he know the quality about extension and for some avi they are looking at the codec and if is XviD for them is the best quality.
For many of them, mkv is freezing the PC or cannot be watchable at all. I think they will not make and store movies (at this moment) in mkv because they are thinking: if mkv freeze my full power PC, what will happen with a player which maybe in the future will play this? The words "freeze" and "maybe" are enough for them at this moment, in my opinion.

I don't know much things about mkv, but where was mkv before appearing HD encodes and H.264? How many used it before?

enjoy,
Mtz

[zambelli]

Well...useless imo. AC3 format is almost dead and replaced by AAC right now regarding container specs.
LOL. Dolby Digital is almost dead? Even though it's used in DVD, ATSC, supported on millions of audio receivers, and both HD-DVD and BD support it for backwards compatibility? Yeah, that sure sounds like dead. :)

[Sagittaire]

LOL. Dolby Digital is almost dead? Even though it's used in DVD, ATSC, supported on millions of audio receivers, and both HD-DVD and BD support it for backwards compatibility? Yeah, that sure sounds like dead. :)

Be carefull ... it's more DD+ and trueHD for HDDVD/BD and not the old DD. IMO AAC is usefull for low/medium bitrate but completely useless for high bitrate. AAC 5.1 at 192 Kbps is able to done "very good quality" but not the Dolby Digital codec series ...

[Kurtnoise]

Yep...Sagittaire has given my thought. By "dead" I meant "replace by new products".

If you're ok to buy HDDVDs or BDs within the same contents of DVDs but beeing much more expensive, it's your business. Not for me. Thank you...

[Zero1]

MKV is good, but I don't think it is in a position to overtake a well establised MPEG/ISO standard, perhaps in encoding circles it may but on the whole, no. It simply has a lot more industry support than MKV, and unfortunately most companies seem reluctant to include MKV support, despite it being totally free. When you look at it like that, it seems really odd.

I always transcode my audio, so AC3 support is a non issue for me. I'm sure there are also many people in this situation too. However for DVB dumps it could be annoying. I may end up using MPG or MKV for those. Currently they broadcast MPEG-2 with MPEG-1 Layer 2 here, so it's Ok for now.

With iPod, PSP, SAPs, mobile phones and commercial software supporting mp4, don't expect it to dissapear anytime soon.

[SeeMoreDigital]

...However for DVB dumps it could be annoying. I may end up using MPG or MKV for those. Currently they broadcast MPEG-2 with MPEG-1 Layer 2 here, so it's Ok for now. MPEG-2 video with MPEG-1 Layer-2 audio muxes quite nicely into MP4 ;)

[Mtz]

Can you provide a sample of this type of mux?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Can you provide a sample of this type of mux?Sure...

Here's an MP4 sample (http://82.10.220.174/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/MPEG-2_video+MP2_audio+Chapters.7z), encoded using MPEG-2 video (at just 315Kbps) with MPEG-1 Layer-2 audio at 224Kbps/48.0KHz and chapter points...

By-the-way, the file is stored on my home PC so it might be a bit slow to download...


Cheers

[Mtz]

Thanks for the file. My player which have support for MP4 aka Nero Digital cannot play it.

enjoy,
Mtz

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for the file. My player which have support for MP4 aka Nero Digital cannot play it.I think there's only one standalone player that might be able to play the file.... Which make/model of player do you have now?


Cheers

[vlada]

Mtz
Have you expected anything else?

[Mtz]

SMD, I have 3-4 players which can play MP4 (ND) but all are with MTK chipset and inside them are firmwares from 2 generations. Both them I think are using the same ARM and DSP codes for MP4. The names of the players are not important because I can put in every I have (about 13) one of this 2 types of firmwares. The chipset is important in our discussion and is MediaTek.

vlada, before tesing I was 99.99 % that will not work (maybe the audio), but for that 0.01 % I want to test because was free of charge. If I will hack a little the firmware I think I can play the file from SMD, but I'll lose the normal play for MP4.
The idea is simple: in the ARM of firmware where is MP4 defined, changing the reference from MP4 to MPEG will let me view this files. But no reason for this and can be made for only one test, and the work on firmware don't deserve this.

enjoy,
Mtz

[Hyper Shinchan]

If I will hack a little the firmware I think I can play the file from SMD, but I'll lose the normal play for MP4.
The idea is simple: in the ARM of firmware where is MP4 defined, changing the reference from MP4 to MPEG will let me view this files. But no reason for this and can be made for only one test, and the work on firmware don't deserve this.

enjoy,
Mtz

Are you sure about hacking your player? Just to add MPEG-2 video and MPEG-1 audio support?
Anyway the player isn't expected to support them coz it supports Nero Digital (I assume Standard or Cinema profile), that just like DivX profiles were created to make the player compatible with a more limited range of codec configuration (and codecs). Nero Digital player won't support MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 in MP4. Either 3GPP or ITunes or PSP will do it, probably because it's a nonsense using high bitrate codecs on a handheld device.
I know that it could be useful with a standalone player, but don't blame MP4, blame Nero (and its manufactors). But at least they've started adding MP4 support in the stand alone players world (with the risk that they continue to keep alive the same issues that we suffers with DivX players, I mean almost no support for QPel, and GMC thought they're part of ASP. I hope that it won't happen the same with AVC).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for the file. My player which have support for MP4 aka Nero Digital cannot play it.Can you download the sample file again. I've re-muxed it using a different version of MP4Box ;)

[Mtz]

Are you sure about hacking your player? Just to add MPEG-2 video and MPEG-1 audio support?
All SAP support MPEG-2 video and MPEG-1 audio. I think I was clear in my previoust post: to change the reference for the MP4 extension to MPEG extension. When the player will find the MP4 extension it will consider it MPEG and playing the file. But as I said, no reason for this hack.
Example from the ARM Code:
Extensions:
.MPEG > 00 00 09 04 4D 50 45 47
...MP4 > 00 00 14 03 4D 50 34
Changing for .MP4 the 14 03 into 09 04 will let me play the file from SMD.

Regarding Nero, in all Mediatek players with ND support the Standard profile is available. With a small hack in the firmware (and I made it), also the Cinema Profile (I'm talking about more than 2 AAC audio channels) can be played.
And yes, I already modified a lot of firmwares. Look here. (http://mtz.softpedia.com/)

SMD, if still MPEG-2 video and MPEG-1 audio in the MP4, no reason to test it again. Thanks for the effort and all you do in this forum.

enjoy,
Mtz

[Hyper Shinchan]

I didn't know that you're an expert of this firmware hackings ^^' I was worry about your player XD
Anyway yes, MP4 supports theorically MPEG-2 and MPEG-1 codecs (all of them, audio and video at any levels, there's also a registered object type for the old MPEG-2 5.1 Bacward Compatible used by SVCD in the past).
All the registered object types are listed here (http://www.mp4ra.org/object.html).