Need help with audio sync with subs

[aerogurl]

I used dvd decrypter to copy cd2 of my dvd. Once I ran it through autogk to produce an avi file the audio and subtitles started way late into the video, also once the audio does start it doesnt seem to match up with the subs.. This is an opera, so I need the subs, and I cant understand where they should start because I do not speak italian. I know nothing about editing an ifo. The first dvd didnt have any delays in the stream info file but I noticed them in cd2. cd1 also worked perfectly. I also had this problem with another dvd;s cd2 and I ended up scrapping the whole deal.. but I really want to fix this one. Here is a copy of the stream info for cd2:

0x20 - Subtitle - Français - [SubPicture 01: Normal] / LBA: 1329 / PTS: 00:03:48.550 / Delay: 228367ms
0x21 - Subtitle - English - [SubPicture 02: Normal] / LBA: 1330 / PTS: 00:03:48.550 / Delay: 228367ms
0x22 - Subtitle - Deutsch - [SubPicture 03: Normal] / LBA: 1327 / PTS: 00:03:48.550 / Delay: 228367ms
0x23 - Subtitle - Chinese - [SubPicture 04: Normal] / LBA: 1326 / PTS: 00:03:48.550 / Delay: 228367ms
0xA0 - Audio - LPCM / 2ch / 48kHz / 16bit / Français / LBA: 1 / PTS: 00:03:44.966 / Delay: 224783ms
0xE0 - Video - MPEG-2 / 720x480 (NTSC) / 4:3 / LBA: 1655398 / PTS: 00:00:00.183 / Delay: 0ms

Also its right around 4 minutes into the dvd when the subs come on, and I notice it says 3:48 above... will changing this work? It takes about 9 hours to convert this to xvid with autogk, so I want to try to get it right the first time without playing around with it. ANY Help is appreciated.

:thanks:

[manono]

Hello and welcome to the forum-

Interesting forum you picked to post an AutoGK question.

As you figured, there are big delays in the names. AutoGK didn't take them into account?

First things first; is your AutoGK up to date (ver. 2.36 being the latest)? When decrypting to the hard drive, did you use DVD Decrypter in IFO Mode (up at the top, Mode->IFO) as you should have?

The audio delay can be fixed. If you want to burn the subs into the video, it'll be tricky to fix. If the subs are external, it's fairly easy to fix.

Answer the questions and we can take it from there.

And maybe an IFO/Vob Editor Forum Mod can move this to the (Auto)GKnot Forum.

[r0lZ]

BTW, manono, I suppose that you know already that this kind of delay problem happens often with ARccOS/RipGuard protected DVDs.
Removing the first protected blank cells and processing the title domain with FixVTS might help, but I'm not sure.

[manono]

Hi r0lZ-

No, I don't know about those things. The classic DVDs with which I work don't have those protections. The thought never occured to me that might be the cause. Are you suggesting that maybe using Movie Mode in RipIt4Me might help get rid of the delays, and help the audio and subs to synch up?

Thanks for the suggestion, and maybe aerogurl will try it out and let us know.

[r0lZ]

Well, I don't know much more than you. But it's a fact that the delays of the original muxing are screwed up by the cells Sony/MV add at the beginning of the title. This problem has some implications when the title is converted to AVI, for example, as there is often a slight A/V desynchronization. I remember I've checked that with the old (and probably obsolete) PSL2 plugin for PgcEdit. Removing the cells with that tool (with the FixVTS process) has magically fixed the problem. Since I'm not the author of that plugin, I don't know what fixed what.
I think the problem was related to a starting time code that was not approx 0.

[setarip_old]

This is an operaNot likely to have "Arccos" or "RipGuard" copy protection. From what I've seen, SONY doesn't "bother" to apply "ARccOS" copy protection to its smaller releases ("SONY Pictures Classics, etc.)...

[mpucoder]

And for those interested in how RipGuard causes the desync, it's simple. The first dummy cells have no audio, but most ripping tools assume continuous audio and video streams

[aerogurl]

Thanks for the welcome. I posted to the wrong forum, sorry. I was looking at ifo editors and postd to this forum while researching the problem. It should be in the AutoGK forum.

First off I am operating with v2.20. I will upgrade asap. I always use dvd decrypter in IFO mode. I had a similar problem with another opera dvd, but these are the only two in about 30 I have copied and converted that had any problems. Both of these worked great for cd1, it was cd2 that did this.

I tried to change the Stream Information file (below) and convert it again last night, but it didnt work. The audio starts at 3:45 into the movie, when it should start instantly. The subs are not external. They were ripped when I ripped the dvd with dvd decrypter.

So, from what I see, I need to modify something, probably the ifo? I just played the first .vob file in WMP and it did not start until 3:45 into the .vob. It was like it was frozen until 3:45 then it started playing. There are no subs when I play the vob alone.

Thanks so much for your help!!


-This is what I changed, it still didnt work:
0x20 - Subtitle - Français - [SubPicture 01: Normal] / LBA: 1329 / PTS: 00:00:00.183 / Delay: 0ms
0x21 - Subtitle - English - [SubPicture 02: Normal] / LBA: 1330 / PTS: 00:00:00.183 / Delay: 0ms
0x22 - Subtitle - Deutsch - [SubPicture 03: Normal] / LBA: 1327 / PTS: 00:00:00.183 / Delay: 0ms
0x23 - Subtitle - Chinese - [SubPicture 04: Normal] / LBA: 1326 / PTS: 00:00:00.183 / Delay: 0ms
0xA0 - Audio - LPCM / 2ch / 48kHz / 16bit / Français / LBA: 1 / PTS: 00:00:00.183 / Delay: 0ms
0xE0 - Video - MPEG-2 / 720x480 (NTSC) / 4:3 / LBA: 1655398 / PTS: 00:00:00.183 / Delay: 0ms

[blutach]

When you ripped the DVD in IFO mode, were they any tiny cells at the start of the PGC? If so, perhaps don't rip them and only rip the "real" cells.

Regards

[aerogurl]

no, its the only thing there to choose to rip

[blutach]

If that's the case, then I'd say the mux is bad. I guess it plays OK?

Regards

[aerogurl]

whats the mux? Yea the vob's play great, just its out of sync. cd1 plays awesome. I really need to know how to edit the ifo to make the audio & subs start 3:45 sooner.

[r0lZ]

mux = multiplexing. It's the action to put all streams (video, audio, subpic) together in a container (VOB, MPG, AVI...). The mux is also responsible of the synchronization of the streams. Muxman, for example, is an excellent multiplexer.

[aerogurl]

so when I ripped the vob's from the dvd, the audio is on the vobs? so there is nothing i can do but try reripping it another way?? The cd was pratically unrippable. It took 11 tries to get it to work in dvd decrypter. I doubt I can get it to work again.

So is there nothing I can do to make the audio start sooner with the ifo and vobs I currently have?

[manono]

Hi-

Why do you keep talking about ripping CDs? The DVD is on a DVD. Maybe it's your AVIs that are on CDs?

If you want to resynch the DVD, you demux using PGCDemux and correct the delay using DelayCut. Then you reauthor and replace the newly authored DVD with good synch in the original DVD with bad synch using the "Replace" button in VobBlanker. However, doesn't the original retail DVD have good synch for both the audio and subs? There's more involved than just changing the IFOs and I, for one, am baffled about your real problem

If you have to resynch the audio on the 2nd CD of your AutoGK created AVI, then you do it in VDubMod. If you have to resynch the subs, that's more difficult, but still doable. It's only the 2nd CD of the AVI that's off, or am I completely misunderstanding?

[aerogurl]

I meant DVD not CD. The reason I say cd is because I have a cd-rw, so when I make dvd's I am converting them into xvid's and burning them to cd-r.

Heres the deal... I have a 2 dvd opera of Carmen. Its very old and I dont know if you can even buy a new one. The second dvd fell out of the case into a box with the kids toys. I thought I had lost it, 4 months later I find it in the bottom of the kids toy box. DVD1 works great. DVD2 will not work at all in the DVD player. So... I tried to rip it, copy it, whatever you call it. On about the 10th time trying with DVD Decrypter it finally worked. These are the files it produced:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/dbhughes/capture_08112006_215135.jpg

The first .vob (VTS_01_1.VOB) video and audio does not start until 3:45 into it. When it starts its great, in sync. The rest of the .vob's work great from start to finish.

When I try to convert these files in AutoGK it results in a badly out of sync .avi file. Unlike the first vob not starting until 3:45 in, this starts right away, thus out of syncing the audio and subs.

Does anyone understand? So I have these above files, vob's, I need to somehow take the first 3:45 off the first vob, or something... Help...

[manono]

Open the 2nd CD AVI in VDubMod. Set Video for Direct Stream Copy. Go Streams->Stream List->Right-click the audio->Interleaving->Audio Skew Correction, and fill in the amount of the asynch, in ms. If the Stream List.txt you posted earlier is to be trusted, you fill in 228367 ms. Then OK->File->Save As->give it a different name, wait a minute or 2 and test.

That'll fix the audio. The subs can be delayed similarly. I'm not sure how to do it and still have AutoGK do the job for you. I only know how to do it for encoding manually, or for keeping the subs external and letting AutoGK do the rest.

The whole DVD can be demuxed, the delays fixed, and remuxed again, ready for AutoGK, but I don't know if you're up to that. I or someone else can give you instructions, if you want to try. Again though, there's much more involved than a simple IFO edit.

[aerogurl]

thank you manono. I will try this tomorrow and get back to you and this thread. many thanks. :thanks:

[aerogurl]

so if i fix the avi in vdub what about the subs? they are ON the avi, not external.

Also when I put the first vob in vdub it looks and sounds ok, no wait to start.

would using the other gk help?

[manono]

Hi-

so if i fix the avi in vdub what about the subs?

Well, did you fix the audio asynch in VDubMod? Because you're going to do the encoding again, and this time the subs will be OK, but the audio will still be off. I'll need for you to fix the audio when it's done following my instructions from before. I want to make sure you can do it, and I asked you to do it for a reason.

And here's how to fix the subtitles so they'll encode correctly. Open the IDX that AutoGK made. Open it with Notepad. Scroll down a ways to just before the timestamps start. Add in the delay like so:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6852/idxdelayrf6.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=idxdelayrf6.jpg)
(http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=idxdelayrf6.jpg)

The important thing is the amount of the delay. Write it just like I did in that small pic.

delay: -00:03:48:67

Ignore the timestamps themselves. They're just from some IDX I had lieing around. Yours will be different. Rename the IDX and the SUB to the same name as the CD2 of the AVI. Maybe it'll be MovieCD2.avi, MovieCD2.idx, and MovieCD2.sub. Then play MovieCD2.avi, the one with the fixed audio (which by now you've made, right?). You'll have your burned in subs at all the wrong places. But you should also have that new IDX/SUB file playing with subs in the right places. You'll know it's working if you see the curved green arrow in the System Tray in the very lower right of the computer monitor. If the delay is still off when playing the AVI, then adjust it a little bit until you get it just right. Make sure you use a player that can read IDX/SUB files. I use Media Player Classic, although any decent player should be able to do it.

OK, after you have the delay right, open it in Sub Resynch. It comes in the VobSub package. If you have Gordian Knot installed, you'll find it in the Subtitle Tab. Open the IDX, and save the IDX as another IDX. When done, open the new IDX and you should see that all the timestamps have moved forward 3 minutes and 48+ seconds and that line with the delay written in should be gone. You can test it out by playing it with MovieCD2.avi to make sure the new subs are OK. Get rid of the one where you wrote in the delay and from now on use the one with the adjusted timestamps. That's the one you'll use in AutoGK for your next encode.

Now, encode the whole thing over again in AutoGK. Open the IFO like before. This time, instead of getting the subs the usual way, after the DVD is open, press CTRL-F8 and a new line will show up just below "Input File":

[IMG]http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2497/chooseidxit1.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chooseidxit1.jpg)
[img=http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2497/chooseidxit1.th.jpg] (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chooseidxit1.jpg)

Scroll to the fixed IDX (use the drop-down box to allow you to choose VobSubs instead of Text Subs), and proceed like before. When done, you should have good video, good subs, and audio out of synch. Fix the audio like before and you should be good to go. Good luck.

[aerogurl]

no i was away, going to start the avi fix now, will msg back tomrorow. thanks so much :)

[aerogurl]

Thank you manolo!! Everything worked except the Audio Skew Correction was a negative ms. Turned out perfect. Thanks!!!!!

[manono]

Darn, that's my fault. And you even said the audio came in 3 min 45 seconds late. I should have known not to use the figures in the Streams List.txt, and that a negative delay was needed. I'm glad that you had enough sense to correct it, and that the subtitle workaround worked out OK. Good going!