Difference btw wavegain and levelator ?

[quake74]

Hi all!

I am getting confused by audio normalization/compression and the tools involved. Let me know if I understood wrong:

Wavegain uses the RMS to find a good scale for the audio and applies it to the whole file. It does a smart normalization because it ignores peaks but does not compress the file. So if a part of the file is quieter then the rest, in the output it will be still quieter (maybe more quieter if wavegain has >1 scale, or less quieter if it has <1)

The levelator actually looks inside the files and performs some kind of compression with an attack time of 0 sec. Since it is not real time, it can just run 2 passes and so knows which parts are quieter and which one are louder. The output file will have pretty much the same constant loudness.

Isn't it possible to do something like the levelator with a good old basic compressor like audacity or sox? Is the attack time the problem?

[raquete]

i don't know levelator,where i can read about this?

[Mug Funky]

it occurs to me that DRC like that could be a good way of measuring loudness, too.

sort of like doing the "create envelope only" tool in cool edit's compressor, then integrating that somehow to find a global loudness (perhaps even getting the RMS of the resulting curve?).

btw: wavgain (and anyhting that uses replaygain) will apply an equal-loudness contour before getting RMS, so the results are more relevant to humans. that way you can't make something louder for the same RMS by upping the midrange.

[raquete]

..."create envelope only" tool in cool edit's compressor..i think about it a long time,will be cool if someone can do that!
in HA they put wavegain in "heaven"...of course is free but audition "group waveform normalize" do better job.
;-)

[quake74]

i don't know levelator,where i can read about this?

Not to be condiscending, but it's the first result on google for levelator: http://www.gigavox.com/levelator

it occurs to me that DRC like that could be a good way of measuring loudness, too.

sort of like doing the "create envelope only" tool in cool edit's compressor, then integrating that somehow to find a global loudness (perhaps even getting the RMS of the resulting curve?).

btw: wavgain (and anyhting that uses replaygain) will apply an equal-loudness contour before getting RMS, so the results are more relevant to humans. that way you can't make something louder for the same RMS by upping the midrange.

Good job Mug, you managed to confuse me even more! ;) I'll try to reread it later when I have more coffee in me

[raquete]

Not to be condiscending, but it's the first result on google for levelator:..google is for who is alone and lost and not inside one forum full of informations.
be condiscending when good will don't came first.
next time using the word "levelator" in the search the result will be inside the forum.
i thank you now and in the name of all futures searchers in the forum!
:)

[raquete]

quake74,
levelator is very easy to use and give more "volume"(limiter/normalization/compression or all three) than wavegain,
sounds better in my taste.
wavegain do the same but give low volume(or limiter/normalization/compression all three...one vitamin of this all),this not means that is bad but it's not so good as levelator
.
what do you prefer?

regards

[quake74]

quake74,
what do you prefer?


In my case (music for gym) I much prefer the levelator, but it is not a command line application, and so batch conversion without manual intervention is out of the question (unless you know of a command line tool which emulates drag'n'drop). I really doubt that the levelator "magic" cannot be reproduced by a combination of wavegain/sox/othercommandlineapp.

[raquete]

In my case (music for gym) I much prefer the levelator.in my case(geriatric rock,sometimes hard rock) i'm testing but levelator seems better,the dynamics are sounding very fine.
I really doubt that the levelator "magic" cannot be reproduced by a combination of
wavegain/sox/othercommandlineapp.me too but i don't know command lines you know,it's easy for one and hard for who never used.
levelator need java but is very easy to use,just drag and drop,very cool.
sounds good,big thanks again for the hint and comments,i don't knew this prog.
:-)

[specise_8472]

In my case (music for gym) I much prefer the levelator, but it is not a command line application, and so batch conversion without manual intervention is out of the question (unless you know of a command line tool which emulates drag'n'drop). I really doubt that the levelator "magic" cannot be reproduced by a combination of wavegain/sox/othercommandlineapp.

Sorry, but it is a command line app!!!!!

The exe file is in

C:\Documents and Settings\WHATEVER YOURS IS\Application Data\Sun\Java\Deployment\cache\javaws\http\Dwww.gigavox.com\P80\DMlevelatorDownload\DMlib\RMwin-binary\resources\binary

Level.exe input_file Output_file to use.
Just copy somewhere with a less complicated path name. And don't forget the DLL file that goes with it.

If you cannot find it, just search for level.exe.

Hope this helps.

Tested and works perfectly.

[raquete]

Sorry, but it is a command line app!!!!!good to know specise_8472 because with musics like "Pink Floyd - Mother" the result is horrible.parts with low volumes encrease so much,parts with high volumes "breath" a little and the worse is round 2 minutes 40 seconds when the music have punch?: round 10 seconds before this punch the sound decrease to "normalize" the differences between low and high levels.
as i'm horrible,or better,really can't use command lines,can you give me hints to adjust or change this strange effect?

[specise_8472]

good to know specise_8472 because with musics like "Pink Floyd - Mother" the result is horrible.parts with low volumes encrease so much,parts with high volumes "breath" a little and the worse is round 2 minutes 40 seconds when the music have punch?: round 10 seconds before this punch the sound decrease to "normalize" the differences between low and high levels.
as i'm horrible,or better,really can't use command lines,can you give me hints to adjust or change this strange effect?


I have not a clue.
I only found where the program "hides"
Perhaps on a newer release they'll fix these problems.
Better still contact them and explain problems.

[Mug Funky]

@ raquete:

The Wall was mastered at a level comparable to a really good movie soundtrack - in fact it's just about spot on (no doubt this is intentional). unfortunately that means it doesnt stand up next to new stuff at all - if you're used to listening to the wall, then "RHCP - Parallel Universe" comes on, you'll find yourself knocked flat, desperately grabbing for the volume control.

i wish there was a good solution for portable players, because replaygain (my preferred method) simply makes things too quiet for the puny amplifiers in portable devices (especially with big headphones). i wouldn't trust a simple compressor like levelator appears to be, but perhaps something can be sorted out in SoX or one of those small programs that can make it nice.

[raquete]

The Wall was mastered at a level comparable to a really good movie soundtrack - in fact it's just about spot on (no doubt this is intentional).you found a good definition and i have the japonese version of the wall(Gold) and the sound is amazing,for me is the best PF album in sound and best musics too.
as you know the album (for sure),look this screenshots:

from levelator:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1825/levelatorsp7.th.png (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=levelatorsp7.png)
the selected region in white is where the sound got more stranges variations in levels,is decreasing 15 seconds before the drums and guitars surge in high level.the whole music sounds strange,compare now with the source from cd without changes:
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7374/normalqu7.th.png (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalqu7.png)
nobody need to hear the music to be sure how the general dynamic is "damaged".

because replaygain (my preferred method) simply makes things too quiet ...i know what you mean.
we need something between levelator and replaygain...

but perhaps something can be sorted out in SoX or one of those small programs that can make it nice.
well..we are waiting for good news.
developers,go ahead. lol

thanks for your comments Mug Funky. :)

thank you too specise. :)

[quake74]

Sorry, but it is a command line app!!!!!

The exe file is in

C:\Documents and Settings\WHATEVER YOURS IS\Application Data\Sun\Java\Deployment\cache\javaws\http\Dwww.gigavox.com\P80\DMlevelatorDownload\DMlib\RMwin-binary\resources\binary

Level.exe input_file Output_file to use.
Just copy somewhere with a less complicated path name. And don't forget the DLL file that goes with it.

If you cannot find it, just search for level.exe.

Hope this helps.

Tested and works perfectly.

Thx! I feel happy because now I can start using it and I feel stupid because I didn't think of looking for it :sly:

[Rockaria]

It sounds to me levelator == encoding time (RG + compressor/limiter)
, having no flexibility at all once transcoded : to each different listening environment(h/w + moods + noise + deaf ears,,,)
, mostly suitable for personal/portable use ATM with no dsf/vst versions available yet.

Dolby has DialNorm(pre-measured)+DRC(pre-scanned by mode + decoding option : 0,0.5,1 in my case), while RG(pre-measured) can be used with any compressors/limiters in PC environment decoding time, keeping the original mastered values for future any better DSP supports.