Menu bug with 1.10.2

[kbello]

I backup matrix reoladed and revolutions from matrix ultimated collection r1, both discs in my dvd player(JVC) the buttons in lenguage selection menu don't show properly, i can navigated but the colors ins't correct. Lenguage selection menu is a still.

No preprocessing

Edit: the same with Lost season 1 stills menus.

[jdobbs]

Any special settings? Is it a full disc backup? I assume you have Menu Encoding on? Also, are you positive you are using v1.10.2? An error exactly matching your description existed in v1.09.3 and was fixed for v1.10.

[kbello]

Full disk backup, menu enconding on and 1.10.2

CCE enconde, and the only specials settings in my rebuilder.ini:

vts_min_size=1000
vtsm_min_size=1000

Thanks in advance :)

[jdobbs]

Could you please zip the REBUILDER.INI, REBUILDER.INF, REBUILDER.LOG, and the IFO files together and send them to dvd-rb@dvd-rb.com?

Thanks.

[kbello]

yes no problem... i deleted the working directory... i do a quick rip asap and send you the files

[kbello]

just send the mail with files

[JFerguson]

I did Matrix Reloaded, 2-DISC, R1 a couple weeks ago with 1.10.2.

This must be different from the Ultimate Collection -- my language menus are not stills.

[jdobbs]

@kbello

Any preprocessing using other tools?

[kbello]

@jdobbs

nothing

[blutach]

I also had problems with Lost - I think the forced start comes a bit late or the duration is not infinte/comes early. It appears as if the highlight flashes by.

Can't pinpoint it any better than that. Next time, I'll compare in DVDSubEdit.

It's puzzling because I'd be awful surprised if DVD Rebuilder (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/) does anything to the subpic packs or the highlight times in the nav packs.

Regards

[jdobbs]

The subpic packs remain untouched. DVD-RB has to author output, all the NAVPACKS are created. The highlight information is pulled from original, adjusted for the new VOBU structures, and used in the output.

[kbello]

@jdobbs

Any news with this??

i will test with HC encoder now to change

[jdobbs]

I also had problems with Lost - I think the forced start comes a bit late or the duration is not infinte/comes early. It appears as if the highlight flashes by.

Can't pinpoint it any better than that. Next time, I'll compare in DVDSubEdit.

It's puzzling because I'd be awful surprised if DVD Rebuilder (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/) does anything to the subpic packs or the highlight times in the nav packs.

RegardsCan you give me a specific "Lost" disc and describe which menu is causing a problem?

[jdobbs]

I just reencoded/rebuilt all the menus for Lost - Season 1 - Disc 1, R1. They seem to be working correctly with PowerDVD. What exactly are the symptoms you are seeing?

[kbello]

in my standlone (JVC) the stills menus don't show the buttons correctly... the buttons are there with no colors

[jdobbs]

I have two JVC standalones, I'll burn it and give it a test.

[berndy2001]

I just wanted to start a thread with it... :)

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/782/12082006009pi8.th.jpg (http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12082006009pi8.jpg) http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1287/12082006006cj2.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12082006006cj2.jpg)
Original vs. Rebuilded

prepared, encoded and rebuilded with 1.10.2, rebuilded again with 1.10.3

[jdobbs]

Something has been modified there -- so I'm guessing you've done some other processing. I don't think DVD-RB could do that if it wanted to. In fact it doesn't modify the original subpicture streams at all... and that looks like it is now off.

Did you do any resizing?


[Added] In fact I can see that the pictures aren't even the same. The second one is a 16:9 picture that has been displayed in 4:3 -- notice the additional picture between the end of the Zebra and the edge of the screen?

[Rippraff]

That's what I call a real screenshot! :D The second one is a 16:9 picture that has been displayed in 4:3 -- notice the additional picture between the end of the Zebra and the edge of the screen?
Right and the selected button (white) seems to be 4:3.
But this is what bernd2001 called the RB output.

Cu Rippraff

[JFerguson]

kbello is on to something here...

I just checked my Matrix Reloaded encode and a couple of other movies I did with DVD Rebuilder on my 4:3 TV and the menus don't come up right -- not like the original discs. The aspect ratio seems off and the navigation highlights are off as well. I never really noticed this before because I always watch movies off my projector in 16:9 mode where they look and behave just like the original.

Anyone else can concur?

[JFerguson]

Ok, two discs that exhibit this:

The Others, R1
The Matrix Reloaded, R1

Both of which I post-processed with VobBlanker v2.1.1.0 to take the chapters to stills. Maybe VobBlanker is changing something that it's not supposed to? I'll do some more checking...


p.s. - I'm redoing "The Others" right now. Will report back...

[kbello]

@JFerguson

For me aspect ratio is fine, only i have problems with navigation highlights and buttons... both in still menus

no preprocessing or postprocessing

[Rippraff]

@jdobbs

I can't confirm berndy2001's behaviour, I've just finished a RB test run with Madagascar and menu encoding and all button look okay in 16:9, 4:3 letterboxed and 4:3 pan&scan mode. :)

Cu Rippraff

[jdobbs]

I'm pretty confident something other than DVD-RB is at fault in this 16:9/4:3 thing. Nothing has changed in this version related to menus.

But I'll check it out to be sure.

[JFerguson]

Ok, I went and re-ran my original project against "The Others". I still had to reduce the menus in post-processing, but this time I did it with Shrink.

With this disc, the menu highlights are right, but the aspect ratio is still off.

I have another run I'm burning -- this one straight from DVD-RB, no post-processing. Will report back here soon...

[jdobbs]

Ok. So it's clear that something other than DVD-RB is causing the aspect problem (VobBlanker?)... that's what I suspected.

As for the menu highlights... I'll wait and see what you find.

[jdobbs]

This is a good time to offer a reminder to everyone.

Please, please do not post any bug reports if you have done any pre or post processing on the source. This aspect thing is just one of about a hundred reports I've gotten reporting bugs that have nothing to do with DVD-RB... they are bugs in another package.

No big deal -- but it really makes it hard to respond to bug reports when I can't be sure whether they are legitimate.

Thanks...

[JFerguson]

jdobbs,

I'm still running tests here, and I'm afraid something's still not right. The only disc that I've got that plays the menus just like the original is one that I ran 100% through DVD Shrink. Aspect ratios are right on, and menu highlights are where they're supposed to be.

Every other test began with DVD Rebuilder, and doesn't play the menus correctly - either aspect ratio is off, or both aspect ratio and menu highlights are off.

I'm still running a couple more tests, and will post here the results and pictures of playback shortly...

[jdobbs]

I'd have to submit you probably processed all the discs that are having problems with another package for every single disc that has aspect ratio off. Being familiar with the DVD formats involved and with the inner workings of DVD-RB, I'd say that it is highly improbable that it could have done that.

Nothing is impossible -- but I have to work in the realm of probabilities.

Over a thousand discs processed and I've never seen it once.

As for the second issue -- I'll have to see if it is repeatable.

[jdobbs]

I'll pick up "The Others", R1 tomorrow and run it through without any external processing. I already ran "The Matrix Reloaded", R1 and it worked correctly.

@JFerguson

Were there any special settings used when you encoded it? Movie Only? Filters? In fact if you have your REBUILDER.INI file, I could use the exact same settings to test it.

[JFerguson]

Ok,

I am going to unequivocally state that there is a problem here. I don't think I've done that yet in this thread; I've posted suspicions and stated that I was testing and that I would report back with findings.

Here are my findings:

There appears to be a player-specific issue with, at minimum, playback of menus for certain movies that are processed with DVD Rebuilder. The setup:

Movie: The Others, R1
DVD Player: Panasonic RV-30 or Panasonic A320
The Version: DVD Rebuilder 1.10.2
The problem: Incorrect playback of root menu - aspect ratio is incorrect. With this, it appears that the menu navigation highlights are appearing in the wrong place or are overwriting menu text, but this is incorrect. The position of the menu navigation highlights is correct -- it is the shifted aspect ratio that skews the position of the menu text.

Below left: Screen shot of root menu, from Original DVD (or, from 100% processing through DVD Shrink v3.2 - a control). Both original DVD and Shrink-processed display menu in correct aspect ratio, and menu navigation highlight (the sideways cross) appears in correct position.

Below right: Screen shot of root menu from 100% processing through DVD Rebuilder v1.10.2, no pre or post processing. Aspect ratio of menu is incorrect, resulting in displacement of menu navigation highlight from menu text. In relation to the original DVD, the sideways cross is in the same position, but the menu text has been shifted to the left.

http://www.chicagophoto.net/blackhole/Doom9/THE_OTHERS.Correct.tn.jpg http://www.chicagophoto.net/blackhole/Doom9/THE_OTHERS.Incorrect.tn.jpg

Full pictures: Left (http://www.chicagophoto.net/blackhole/Doom9/THE_OTHERS.Correct.JPG) and Right (http://www.chicagophoto.net/blackhole/Doom9/THE_OTHERS.Incorrect.JPG)

Note: This problem did not present during playback on an Apex AD-1500 player. All discs displayed the root menu correctly on this unit.



jdobbs,

We all know that you are an extremely busy person, and fully appreciate the time and effort you put into this great program and all of the support you give us here. I mean, you're running development, QA, and the Help Desk -- all as a one-man operation. And I think you're working another job somewhere too. Man, I gotta wonder if you have a life??! ;) It seems plausible that you're gonna get burnt out at this rate, and we don't want that to happen! :(

Now, I saw a post here, regarding a problem, that had a familiar ring. So, I spent half my day here testing a suspicion, and I was happy to do it.

A suggestion: when issues like these get reported, defer to your QA team -- they number in the hundreds, at minimum. Don't say you'll go out at buy that movie and check it out. Many of us have already done that! :) Ask if someone can repeat the problem (some of us will chime in to that fact even without the prompt) and see how it plays out. Throw out a hunch, if you want, but let us toss it around a bit.


Now, this issue, problem, whatever -- is it Rebuilder? I don't know. I can repeat it with certain discs (The Others, Matrix Reloaded), and not repeat it with others (Bee Season, Mansfield Park, The Cave). All on a Panasonic player, and none on an Apex. Maybe it's something with the original authoring? At any rate, it is a curiosity for some of us.

Hope this helps...

[JFerguson]

@JFerguson

Were there any special settings used when you encoded it? Movie Only? Filters? In fact if you have your REBUILDER.INI file, I could use the exact same settings to test it.

See, now I went and wrote that big long post up, and now you're off to get your own copy -- well, maybe you're just gonna rent it, and then I won't feel so bad. And maybe us QA testers have tossed it around enough already? ;)

Although, I'm afraid if you don't have a Panasonic player, it's not going to yield anything? I wonder what kind of player berndy has, I think kbello said JVC?

Well, here's the rebuilder.ini file -- nothing special, blanked some of the nonTrailers in V02, I think. Thanks...

[Options]
TargetSectors=2244650
vts_min_size=1024
vtsm_min_size=1024
AGGRESSIVE_LAYER_BREAK_REMOVAL=1
CLOSED_CAPTIONS=1
Mode=1
OneClick=0
ReduceOpt=2
NoWarn=0
AdditionalOutput=1
LogFile=1
QuEncHQ=1
EncoderMinimized=0
RemoveDTS=0
HC_Quality=1
HC_Matrix=1
SkinVersion=12
Skin=Rebuilder Default
AudioDub=1
QuEncodeType=0
iDCT=0
GOP=0
DCPrec=0
MainMatrix=Encoder Default
LowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
VLowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ExtraMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ProCoder_Quality=4
DVD_Label=THE_OTHERS
DVD_Name=THE_OTHERS.ISO
MovieOnly=0
HalfD1=000
Convert_16_9=000
DisableInterlace=000
ConvertToYUY2=1
CCE=3
SkipPrepare=1
Encode_Menus=1
[Paths]
Source=W:\VIDEO_TS\
QuEnc=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\Encoders\QuEnc\QuEnc.exe
ReJig=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\Encoders\ReJig\ReJig.exe
HC=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\Encoders\HC Encoder\HCbatch.EXE
ProCoder=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\Encoders\EclPro\EclPro.exe
DECOMB=D:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll
MPEG2DEC=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\DGDecode.dll
Working=G:\!DVDWork\!DVDRB5\
Output=H:\!DVDWork\!DVDRB5\
CCENew=D:\Program Files\Custom Technology\CCE SP Trial Version\cctspt.exe
[Audio]
Selected=101
[Subpictures]
Selected=10

[jdobbs]

Do me a favor. Remove "AGGRESSIVE_LAYER_BREAK" and see if the problem continues. The layer_break code was the cause of the menu issue that was resolved in v1.10.

The problem is that I have to be able to repeat it in order to fix it -- and in order to repeat it I have to have the disc that can cause it. So far I can't repeat it.

Can you send me the original IFO and the IFO that shows the symptoms (dvd-rb@dvd-rb.com)?

Is this something that just started with v1.10.3 -- or was it there before?

[jdobbs]

Remove "AGGRESSIVE_LAYER_BREAK" and see if the problem continues. Ignore this. I just looked at the code and this shouldn't have an effect.

[berndy2001]

Something has been modified there -- so I'm guessing you've done some other processing. I don't think DVD-RB could do that if it wanted to. In fact it doesn't modify the original subpicture streams at all... and that looks like it is now off.

Did you do any resizing?

no, i did nothing. no preprocessing, no changes on the avs files. with powerdvd everything works fine. but unfortunately not on my standalone. the still menus work fine, only the animated look crapy (wrong aspect ratio).

I can't confirm berndy2001's behaviour, I've just finished a RB test run with Madagascar and menu encoding and all button look okay in 16:9, 4:3 letterboxed and 4:3 pan&scan mode. :)
in 16:9 it look ok for me too, but not in the other two modes.

Nothing has changed in this version related to menus.
im using the menu encoding feature since 1 month i think. before i had troubles with it (menu wasnt shown), i found out it was a fault of procoder. now im using cce again. the conclusion is maybe, that the problem exists since the first day?

btw. the madagascar dvd is really strange. there is a 560MB video_ts.vob (untouched by dvd-rb) containing ... nothing.

edit: a small feature request by the way: keyboard shortcuts, like in the old editor. and a setting for the whole vts.

[jdobbs]

Could you send me ( dvd-rb@dvd-rb.com ) the original and the DVD-RB created IFOs? I'd really like to put this one to bed and based on the conditions I think it is very probably in the IFO.

[berndy2001]

sure, its on the way.

[JFerguson]

jdobbs,

I sent ya mine, too. Three sets of them:

!RawARJFiles = ifos direct from the original DVD
!ImgARJFiles = ifos from the mounted .iso (AnyDVD/DVD Decrypter)
!BLD-ARJFiles = ifos from the build .iso (DVD Rebuilder output)

The Img ifos would have been the input to Rebuilder.

[jdobbs]

Looking at the IFOs I received (thanks!) I think I have an idea what might be causing the Aspect Ratio problem.

It seems that the menus mentioned are all flagged as Pan & Scan. That means the MPEG data might need additional Pan & Scan information in the Sequence_Display_Extension and possibly the Picture_Display_Extension to spell the Pan out completely.

It has always been my understanding, though, that a player, in the absence of this data, should center/zoom the picture. Apparently that doesn't hold true for at least some players. I was also under the impression that Pan & Scan sources were exceptionally rare (virtually nonexistent) in DVD... but maybe that doesn't hold true for menus.

Could someone who can repeat this problem try something for me? I'm guessing your standalone setup is configured for "4:3 Pan & Scan" -- could you set it to "Letterbox" and see if the issue gets resolved? If so, please let me know so I can be sure that this is truly the issue.

Anyway -- most encoders don't support the ability to set the Pan/Scan info -- so I will have to add some code to scan for the extensions as the new MPEG file is being read and add/modify them as necessary to support pan & scan. You should see it in the next release (assuming, of course, my assumption turns out to be true).

[blutach]

I may be wrong, but I thought the 2 menu groups were 4:3 and Pan and Scan.

Regards

[jdobbs]

The 4:3 flags have to be enabled for Pan & Scan.

[jdobbs]

@berndy2001

Can you tell me... in "Madagascar" do all the menus have the same aspect ratio problem? The reason I ask is that the Pan & Scan settings are applied to all of them -- so one would think that if that is the problem it would be consistent.

I'm having a hard time because I've tested on four players and they all display it correctly regardless of whether the sequence_display_extension is there or not. But obviously something is different on your player, so it's difficult for me to tell whether it has an effect.

@JFerguson

Not sure about "The Others" yet -- I'm trying to focus on one disc at a time and I own "Madagascar" already. Does it show symptoms on other menus (mainly the ones in that VTS) or just on the one you've shown?

[Zeul]

Thought i might jump in here :)
In my experience with numenu nearly all menus are 4:3 PS. And often there is a combination of 4:3 and 4:3 PS within the same VOB - caused me no end of problems. In the end i didn't trust the IFO and parsed the mpeg headers to confirm AR (which no doubt RB does anyway). After encoding as 4:3 the PS data was always added back into the mpeg headers.

One other thing which i am sure is correct anyway (but never any harm is raising these questions), is that the button display group settings in the NAV are identical to the original - i presume the subpck is identical ie no alteration to the stream id.

[jdobbs]

Hey, Zeul, how's it going?

I'm testing my code now. What I've done is look for the SEQUENCE_DISPLAY_EXTENSION in the source stream during the PREPARE phase and check the display_horizontal_size. If it shows as 540, I flag it as PS in the REBUILDER.INF file. Then during REBUILD, for segments flagged as PS, I either add the SEQUENCE_DISPLAY_EXTENSION with the correct horizontal size for PS or I modify it if it already exists.

Sound about right?

[Zeul]

Hey jdobbs
Sounds spot on. I wonder why some discs are failing. I am thinking off the top of my head here so forgive me if i state the obvious. :D

PS is only checked if the header confirms that the source is 4:3.

When checking the original sde for 540 you are taking account of the color description in the bitstream which can alter the byte position?

If the sde does not exist then the presence of pde also confirms that the source is PS (I have seen many where there is no sde at all - just the pde)

The ifo should be written as 16:9 AR only panscan unless you have an awkward menu where all 3 display modes are used - in which case the button groups and pgc mapping would confirm this.

Hope that helps or just states the obvious (still you never know a line of code commented out by mistake or forgot about - whoa have i been there)

As an after thought because only certain players are showing a problem i bet its to do with sde and pde - perhaps some players are reading the pde and panning in when no sde exists, while others are ignoring the pde and staying full screen.

[jdobbs]

Actually this code is new for v1.10.4 (yet to be released)... so that explains the problem. ;) My problem is that I can't find a player that will show in incorrectly even when the SDE isn't there. I was under the previous impression that the absence of the SDE would make a player default to "zoom/centered" -- which is what all my players are doing. But it appears not to be the case across all players.

[berndy2001]

Can you tell me... in "Madagascar" do all the menus have the same aspect ratio problem? The reason I ask is that the Pan & Scan settings are applied to all of them -- so one would think that if that is the problem it would be consistent.

yes, all animated menus are in wrong aspect ratio. only the still menus works fine.

[jdobbs]

Good. That makes sense because still are copied intact.