RealProducer 12 with RealVideo 11?

[Seraphic-]

Hi karl_lillevold,

Are there any plans for a RealProducer 12 with RealVideo 11? I'm going to be making a lot of videos in the near future, but if a new RealVideo codec will be out soon i'll wait.

Thanks

[bond]

check out rule 9 plz: Use a title that describes the content of your post.

[videomixer9]

Also how about using a more future proof codec instead and especially as you seem to distribute the videos one that doesn't require people to download annoying ad riddled junk like realplayer or require them to install third party hack together solutions like realalternative. Also maybe one that can be played on any platform and not only windows.

[Seraphic-]

I like RealMedia for a few reasons.

1. Videos can't easily be opened for video editing by someone else.
2. Overall good quality. Didn't RealVideo 10 beat out a few other codecs in a comparison?
3. Can add copyright and other information to the clip.
4. People can also install Real Alternative to view.

However, could you recommend another codec I could try?

[videomixer9]

Yeah it cannot be easily edited as it's not really supported by anyone else than Real, in a comparison with always something beats something else, copyright and other information ... matroska container can even have fonts, images and more stored into it with almost any popular codecs available, even avi can have copyright info stored amoung other things. Real Alternative is Windows only, basically it's the almost same shit why WMV3 and On2 Codecs suck. Also you have no guarantee that in few years people might be still able to watch these videos.

Luckily for many some people of the open source scene make the effort to make up for the idiocy of people using these codecs by creating free decoders if possible.

Also in a simple poll you'd notice that Real has a very very low acceptance amongst internet users. The only exception may be Chinese, they are as fancied over Real it seems as Japanese are into WMV9. With the exception that WMV9 playback doesn't require at least Windows users to install a lousy player along the codecs as they get it with the OS ;P

I think the counted downloads of your vids on the website proof my point among the fact the topic may not be so interesting for many people anyways. Without the Real barrier someone might've just gotten them for no real reasons :P

[Seraphic-]

Well, the main reason why I don't have many downloads because of the authentication system in place. Members need to get a certain post count. But anyway, I was thinking of maybe trying H.264 in QuickTime. Since I have a program to lock the file preventing it from being edited.

[videomixer9]

Now he's on the DRM way ... way to go to piss off people. At least h264 is a better way to go.

[Seraphic-]

What's your point? I host the videos on my server so I need to control bandwidth usage. Also, each video can take several hours to make so I don't want my them stolen. Like being edited to remove my copyright and the images to show where the video is from. Is that so wrong?

[videomixer9]

Wanna join the MPAA? :P

You already got a counter for allowed downloads, so what's the problem controlling the traffic. Other than that if you're running on a dedicated host you may want to check out new traffic unlimited offers (even if they'd kill you for producing extreme traffic and it's fair use it's still a good thing to know you don't have to pay for overtraffic).

Stealing ... well try and use hidden watermarks that don't vanish by reencoding, more effective for you than annoy the enduser with stuff that can be overridden easily by anyone who really wants to. The moment something can be displayed without HDMI interface it can be copied anyways easily.

Also, not much use spending several hours making a video when it keeps on having zero downloads.

My simple rule for providing videos is that it has to run in either mplayer or VLC standard version cause people think these are wonderboxes that play anything and so it shall be for them :P

[Seraphic-]

I don't agree with much the MPAA or RIAA does. However, I'm just trying to protect my investment. Why is that wrong to do that? I'm sure if you we're offering exclusive content you would try to do the same thing. Besides, many websites offer "better" content on a pay system. I'm just doing it with posts. As for hidden watermarks, I don't know much about them or how they work.

I don't want to argue here. I'm just hoping karl_lillevold sees this and gets back to me on RealProducer 12 with RealVideo 11.

[CruNcher]

@Seraphic
http://www.creativecommons.org (think about it)

[killerhex]

any chance of a RV10 vfw codec

[karl_lillevold]

any chance of a RV10 vfw codec
No, I am afraid there are no plans for this at the moment.

[karl_lillevold]

Hi karl_lillevold,
Are there any plans for a RealProducer 12 with RealVideo 11? I'm going to be making a lot of videos in the near future, but if a new RealVideo codec will be out soon i'll wait.

No, not in the near future. I would recommend encoding with RealVideo 10.

[bond]

videomixer9, plz cool down

[Hellworm]

If you want to protect your videos you have to remember, that everything that can be viewed, also can be copied/stolen. So if you use DRM it makes the videos harder to copy, as it may make them harder to play (on other OS/Devices). But that's for the average user. Everyone who really wants to can steal the video if he wants. So your average user get's dissappointed by you, whereas it gets stolen anyway.

DRM doesn't really provide what it promised aside from the profits it is promising the companies that created it to chain the users to their own System.

[killerhex]

when a video is encoded to another format with drm enableb its creates a license that only that computer can play or others if the have the license copied in their comp

like most downloadable media with drm in the internet you have to download the license first to play it

[vlada]

Seraphic-
You can never create a video which can't be copied. An it will be most likely very easy to copy the movie. The only think you'll get are angry people who can't play the videos. Don't try to create copy protected movies, you'll fail anyway. You're fighting against windmills.

I would suggest you to create MKV-AVC/Vorbis movies. Absolute novices won't be able to convert them, but these videos will play fine in almost every player on all systems.

[wata]

any plan for a pocket pc version update to support rmvb

[killerhex]

does realvideo allow 1280x720 resolution

[Sirber]

does realvideo allow 1280x720 resolutionyes

no link with "RealProducer 12 with RealVideo 11?" though :sly:

[killerhex]

sirber does RA support it

[Sirber]

sirber does RA support it
When will you learn that RealAnime is a Graphical User Interface, not an encoder, not a codec? Producer does the encoding job, not realanime :sly:

[karl_lillevold]

most certainly. I think we (rather randomly) set the max supported resolution to 2048x2048.

[Seraphic-]

With RealVideo 10, sould I use a b-frame count of 1, 3 or 0?

[karl_lillevold]

Leave it at default, which is adaptive, that means do not use that setting in the audience file.

[Seraphic-]

Hi karl,

Well, I used your post HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72321) for some help, but there are a few things i'm still not sure about.

Audio Code: "128 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10" or "128 Kbps Stereo - RA 10 Plus" | What is the difference between these?

Video Mode: "Normal Motion Video" or "Sharpest Image" | In a RealProducer FAQ I found on Google; it says that "Sharpest Image" will give the most detailed looking image, however, you will also have laggy/dropped frames and frame rate issues, is that true? I did a few test videos and couldn't really see any any problems.

RealVideo 10/9 Codec Properties: As you can see in the second image, I'm using a "B Frames" of 3. Default is still 3, but it's unchecked. With that in mind, do you still suggest that I leave it un-checked? Also, do I need "BestPSNRMode" found near the bottom of the image?

Last: Please take a look at both images and their settings. Are there any improvements or changes you can recommend?

Side Issue: I see your post "What about RealVideo 11? - It is being worked on. There will probably not be any further updates to RealVideo 10." Should I wait or is that a long way off?

Thank you

http://www.seraphicgate.com/1.jpghttp://www.seraphicgate.com/2.jpg

[karl_lillevold]

Audio Code: "128 Kbps Stereo Music - RealAudio 10" or "128 Kbps Stereo - RA 10 Plus" | What is the difference between these?

"Plus" uses AACPlus, which is not needed at that bitrate. So I would recommend just 128 kbps Stereo Music. For lower bitrates, you should use the "Plus" version.


Video Mode: "Normal Motion Video" or "Sharpest Image" | In a RealProducer FAQ I found on Google; it says that "Sharpest Image" will give the most detailed looking image, however, you will also have laggy/dropped frames and frame rate issues, is that true? I did a few test videos and couldn't really see any any problems.
That setting is meant mostly for lower bitrates, where the codec may choose to skip frames, to maintain a higher video quality per frame. At the bitrate you appear to be using, 2000 kbps, it does not matter whether you use Sharpest, or Normal Motion Video. Just do not use Smoother video, it will downsample horizontally.

RealVideo 10/9 Codec Properties: As you can see in the second image, I'm using a "B Frames" of 3. Default is still 3, but it's unchecked. With that in mind, do you still suggest that I leave it un-checked? Also, do I need "BestPSNRMode" found near the bottom of the image?
Keep the B frame setting unchecked. That means adaptive. I would not recommend BestPSNRMode. It is an experimental mode to try to improve PSNR, but not necessarily video quality.

Last: Please take a look at both images and their settings. Are there any improvements or changes you can recommend?
Yes, I would recommend to make sure Use New Rate Control is checked, and not undefined. You could probably also check chromaModeDecision, and uncheck Reference Picture Resampling (needed only for very low bitrates).

Side Issue: I see your post "What about RealVideo 11? - It is being worked on. There will probably not be any further updates to RealVideo 10." Should I wait or is that a long way off?

It will still take some time, I would not recommend to wait.

Hope this helps :)

[Seraphic-]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply, it was a lot of help. Just a few other questions:

1. Does "chromaModeDecision" help save color during encode?

2. Do I need "Cut Off Compatible" or "CutOffBUseRefQuant"? Both were checked by default but i'm not sure what they do.

3. Do "Startup Latency" and "Key Frame Interval" look good? And is "High quality resample audio" needed?

5 EHQ Mode: Is High recommend? Or should change it to custom, then make the "1st Pass Complexity" and Encoder Complexity" much higher?

4. Below is what I think i'm going with. Do you have any final improvements or changes that you can recommend? (I'm going for damn good looking video. I really don't want to have low detail the small stuff like grass etc...)

Thank you for your help!

http://www.seraphicgate.com/3.jpghttp://www.seraphicgate.com/4.jpg

[karl_lillevold]

1. Does "chromaModeDecision" help save color during encode?
It encodes chroma slightly better.

2. Do I need "Cut Off Compatible" or "CutOffBUseRefQuant"? Both were checked by default but i'm not sure what they do.
I think they were actually "undefined". The check box has three states, undefined means use default settings, which is recommended.

3. Do "Startup Latency" and "Key Frame Interval" look good? And is "High quality resample audio" needed?
Yes, yes, and yes (the high quality audio resampler is one of the fastest (no, not written by me))

5 EHQ Mode: Is High recommend? Or should change it to custom, then make the "1st Pass Complexity" and Encoder Complexity" much higher?
Just leave it at High. A fast first pass does not sacrifice video quality, just speeds up encoding dramatically.


4. Below is what I think i'm going with. Do you have any final improvements or changes that you can recommend? (I'm going for damn good looking video. I really want to and not have low detail the small stuff like grass etc...)
I think those settings should give you the best RV10 can offer. (except change those cutoff check boxes back to their undefined state)

Happy to help.

[Seraphic-]

EDIT FIX: (I'm going for damn good looking video. I really don't want to have low detail the small stuff like grass etc...)**

Alright, last thing. Is "Enable PSNR" the same as "BestPSNRMode"? I.E. both not needed?

[karl_lillevold]

no, not the same. You can disable Enable PSNR if you like. It speeds up the encoder slightly, by not keeping a log of PSNR.

[Seraphic-]

Will there be a quality loss if I disable "Enable PSNR"? I don't care about encoding time, as i'm looking to get as good as RealVideo 10 can put out.

Oh, and you don't need "Use Two Pass Control |1st & 2nd" when you are using "Use New Rate Control"?

[karl_lillevold]

No, there will be no quality loss when you disable "Enable PSNR".

Sorry, I missed that missing checkbox. Use two pass | 1 & 2 should be checked.

[Seraphic-]

Alright, i'll add that in, but by default "Use two pass | 1 & 2 " is not checked.

Again, thank for all your help!

[Seraphic-]

Hi karl,

Please check you PMs when you get a chance. I sent you a test video that I encoded using the below settings.

[karl_lillevold]

Everything seems fine, but since you do not deinterlace the fullscreen high complexity, high motion video, it makes it incredibly hard to compress, I would guess 2-3 times harder than if you use a high quality de-interlacer. Therefore, even such a high bitrate is not enough to make it look good. Pre-processing properly is key to a good encoding. I would really recommend looking into a good quality avisynth de-interlacer, and adjust it right. Producer's _automatic_ de-interlacer/inverse telecine just cannot handle such complicated material well. You could try to check only de-interlace, if this is truly all interlaced material.

[Seraphic-]

I plan on using LeakKernelDeint and MVbob to deinterlace. The video I sent you was just another test encoding. It just had more artifacts then I thought it would, but like you said, that could be since I didn't deinterlace it yet.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you use to deinterlace?

Do target quality videos produce better looking videos then VBR?

Last, is everything correct in the below images? I ask because I know you said checks have three levels as in off, checked, then grey check.

Thank you for taking the time to help me out

http://www.seraphicgate.com/9.jpghttp://www.seraphicgate.com/10.jpg

[Sirber]

I never liked that interface... bulky and confusing.

[Seraphic-]

I never liked that interface... bulky and confusing.

Is RealAnime a simplified version of a .rmvb encoder? If yes, does it still use any of the settings found in the above images?

[Seraphic-]

Hi karl,

What is the difference between "New Rate Control" checked, undefined/grey checked and unchecked?

Also, how will Real Video 11 compare to DivX, XviD, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, H.264, and X264 AVC?

Thanks

[Sirber]

a bit smoother than mpeg4 asp.
dunno for mpeg4 avc.

[Seraphic-]

When you say "smoother" what do you mean?

[bratao]

Better perceptual image quality