How do I use the wmv9 codec?

[Deathbliss]

I can't find a tutorial or guide to the settings, and what they do anywhere. Basically I'm using CamStudio to make some tutorial videos for Max and UnrealED, and I have WMV working in it, but I have no idea how to set everything for the best possible picture, mouse cursor tracking, and highest compression. Could someone point me to a guide or a tutorial or something to explian this?

I would very much appreciate it!
- Deathbliss

P.S. Moderators - I recently asked for my account to be deleted. I came in here and saw I had done nothing with my account for a few years, and I figured I'd never use these forums. Then this came up, so please ignore my account deletion request - I would appreciate it. Seems like these forums are the best place to go to help for the kind of stuff I find myself doing now.

[jggimi]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

I am moving your thread to our General Discussion forum, per http://forum.doom9.org/announcement.php?f=10

I will forward your request to our administrators.

[Deathbliss]

Sorry I posted in the wrong place. Hope someone helps me out...
- Deathbliss

[check]

Perhaps this would be better in the alternative codecs forum?

As far as I know, you cannot really set many options with WMV encoding apart from in the free Windows Media Encoder (not the Studio beta edition). You could try encoding losslessly with that program and encoding through WME. The other advantage is you will be able to use the specialised WMV9 Screen codec which is especially optimised for capturing desktop / folder style images.

[Deathbliss]

I've enclosed a pic showing you what I mean. I don't really get any of these settings; what they do and how best to use any of them to accomplish my goal. These are available from inside CamStudio when I click on the configuration button.
- Deathbliss

[mike_lee]

Camstudio has it's own loss-less codec that's a way better match for your project then wmv9. wmv9 is, at this point, very CPU intensive and is (mostly) designed to deliver HD content. I try to avoid wmv content when I can (I hate the fact it won't slow-mo play like every other format and I don't like that soft smeared look. But sometimes you need to use wmv if you're dealing with a large variety of people with old crappy, malware infested computers, which is the exact reason to avoid wmv 9. avi and mpg are also safe bets.

But here's a way to go at it.Do all your work in the native environment of your software, don't worry about file size - the bigger the better.

Then download windows media encoder (free) and encode the avi to wmv format using MS' damn good free software.

[Deathbliss]

Yeah but wouldn't the compress take more time? I mean I tried the CamStudio lossless codec, and found some other good ones, but the file sizes are HUGE. I found that when re-encoding these with Virtul Dub Mod from the 3ivx codec I had been using (discovered its Quicktime and therefore not very common) using the WMV9 codec the files sizes were pretty close - just a few megs added on and no loss in quality. But it took 16 hours! So I'd much rather just find a codec that compresses well, looks good, and tracks the mouse properly and use CamSudio. No further encoding/decoding/re-coding, etc. needed. I just wait a little - a few seconds at most for CamStudio to compress stuff after I record a video and I'm all done. I like that - I know wmv9 can give me the file sizes I want, I just don't know how to do it. My second option is xvid, and I wouldn't mind usage advice on that either. Maximum picture quality, compression, and best mouse capture. I don't need lossless or anything, just good enough quality that there aren't large blocks everywhere like divx, or you can't see the grid in the programs I'm using, or the grid blurs out.

I am open to other codec suggestions, but I'd really like to get to know wmv9 and xvid better. And I really don't want to have to compress it afterwards with another program, unless there's one out there that work as fast as CamStudio does.
- Deathbliss

[foxyshadis]

Did you try MSU Screen Lossless, or is your capture not amenable to that kind of codec? Note, you can't convert it from something lossy, you must capture directly to it (or another lossless format like zmbv or camstudio).

You should set complexity to advanced in WMV to enable things like b-frames.

[mike_lee]

I don't think I've ever waited more then a few hours on a render (I used to render print jobs all night long - that's why I always have a fast computer these days). What slows rendering down in virtual dub is filters, each filter basically doubles the time.

Avi is a container, the video inside can be anything, divx, wmv. raw etc. AVI isn't a type of video like wmv is (I'm fuzzy on this) So as long as your file is raw or uncompressed file size should not concern you. I just took a small clip ran it through VD and saved it raw which gave me 315 megs (it's like a 9 second p0rn clip) Then I ran it through windows media encoder and it gave me an 893 kb file. which took 33 seconds to render. From 315 megs to less then 1 meg. :-) It looks the same.

http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/9167/new25qo.jpg

[fccHandler]

@Deathbliss:
Click the "Help" button in the lower right corner of the codec's configuration dialog. The help document that comes with WMV9 VCM is excellent and very detailed.

[mike_lee]

Oh yea and to answer your original question. I just turn everything up because I can't stand smear, audio or video. The only gotcha, and I'm sticking my neck out here because I'm really not positive, is the 2 pass stuff.

The first pass you have to create a tmp file (see the picture) so in VD you would click compression, configure your encoder, create a tmp file named mymovie.tmp, click your way out and then in VD choose save as avi - name it mymovie.avi
and run your first pass.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/9715/new123za.jpg

Then you do the exact same sequence again (VD, compression, configure, you click the second pass radio button and overwrite your first file, mymovie.avi, because the data is coming from the tmp file. If I'm wrong someone will correct me. But that's why there are so few answers around BBS, everyone is afraid of looking stupid. Well not me, I'm proud to look stupid. :-)

[foxyshadis]

So what exactly do you mean by "mouse cursor tracking"? This sounds like a camstudio problem.

ps, mike_lee, vdub has a "run video analysis pass" now so you don't have to create useless temp avis.

[Deathbliss]

OK, thanks for all your advice! I will look into the windows enoder and double pass. I also didn't even see the help button - so I'll read that and see if I understand it at all. Also thank you for the complexity advice! I'm off to go read and play!

Did someone say p0rn? :P
- Deathbliss

[Deathbliss]

So what exactly do you mean by "mouse cursor tracking"? This sounds like a camstudio problem.

ps, mike_lee, vdub has a "run video analysis pass" now so you don't have to create useless temp avis.

I'm referring to all your mouse acvtvity - what you click on, where the cursor is, etc. as this is necassary for a tutorial to show viewers what to do.
- Deathbliss

[Deathbliss]

Even after reading the Help and trying various complexity settings I still can't get this working right :( I just record video and audio for a few seconds - 20 at most - and I end up with a 2 meg file! I can do the same thing with Xvid and get a 200 kilobyte file! That's also the asame for 3ivx, and as i said I used the wmv encoder to re-encode those files and ended up with only a few megs difference. So I KNOW that I should be seeing around a 400 kilobyte max file size using the WMV encoder for 20 seconds video. What in the name of dog am I doing wrong? I hope someone experienced in using the WMV9 codec can come in here and enlighten me...
- Deathbliss

[mike_lee]

I had a problem like that once and it was my audio, it was still in wav format and thus large. You have to encode that as well.

Thanks for that tip foxyshades, I didn't know that.

[Deathbliss]

I'm compressing the audio with MPEG-2. But I'll run a test without recording any audio to see if this is working right. Thanks for the tip!

UPDATE! I just got back from my test. I told CamStudio to not record the audio. You're never gonna believe this... Instead of the average 2 meg and change file the resulting file was 37 megs in size! WITH NO AUDIO! What's going on here???

UPDATE AGAIN! OK, so I'm back to the 2 meg and change filesize with no audio - I think I must've interrupted the compressing portion of the video session somehow. Anyway yes, the audio is compressing correctly.
- Deathbliss

[mike_lee]

Well if you want to you can upload it to rapidshare or something both the raw and the encoded version. Or just record the same amount of "webcam filming your desk" and I'll see what I can do or find out. Send me a pm with the link and I'll put another set of novice eyes on it. You may not want to so no need to even answer this post.

[Deathbliss]

I appreciate your help, but I decided to just stick with Xvid. I've released the tutorial, so you can still take a look if you want - here's a direct link (you will need a File Planet account to download):
http://www.fileplanet.com/hosteddl.aspx?/hst/d/e/deathbli/SizingAndUIp1.zip

I think I'll just do things in small parts, and keep my eye out for any xvid guides so I can shave off a few more megs. But I'm happy with everything as it is for now.
- Deathbliss