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loninappleton
26th June 2006, 05:24
The old vid capture board I have needs the cable for
connection to a vhs vcr.


i was following a guide and got a look at the cable needed.

The text says tyhat his is a cable supplied with the boards
manufacturer.


Is this just a s-vhs cable with 3 phono ends for composite
and left and right audio?


I tried an svideo cable in the card and it fits but I have no
clue if the pinout is the same as one of these jobbies
from a manufacturer.


Can anyone clue me on this?


If it's common, who had a good deal on them?

Closest match I found is this model:


http://www.svideo.com/sv3rca.html


I'd prefer to pay about five bucks. :o

Revgen
26th June 2006, 09:19
S-VHS is video only. No audio is transmitted. A straight S-VHS to Composite connection is all that is needed.

loninappleton
26th June 2006, 17:03
The Hauppauge has other connections on it (it's really old)
like Line Out plus the RFI and cavble and FM connects.


A source of the manual for this thing would help.

Is it possible to hook up a vhs player with only the old style
cable connect to the card to capture video plus it's left right
phono connections at the amplifier for audio? I guess that's
an RF connect.


Otherwise, what is the correct simple composite plug?
What is it called? Svideo to Composite? Why all the other
stuff shown in the how-to guide?

loninappleton
27th June 2006, 19:57
Some progress on this.

I got the manual download with complete connector
drawings.

Line in and line out are also on there. So to complete
the connection from source, would I also need a sound card
type cable with 2 phono plugs to a single 1/8 jack to complete
the connection from vhs to the capture card? Then what about the sound card connects at the computer itself?


I only had a chance to glance at the manual so far. It's 85
pages.

Arachnotron
27th June 2006, 20:45
No, the old winTV could not process sound. But when watching TV, it would generate sound over the line out. So you need:

- a short mini-stereo-jack to mini-stereo-jack going from the line-out of the winTV to the line-in of your soundcard;
This will give you TV sound and the option to record it.

- you connect the sound out of the VCR to the line-in of the WinTV; this needs a stereo-RCA to mini-stereo-jack.

The 2.5 mm small jack on the WinTV is for the IR sensor which came with the remote. (not all models came with one though)

When you select TV as recording source, the TV sound is directed to your soundcard. When you select composite, the VCR sound is shunted through the TV card to the soundcard.

If you only record VCR and never use the TV part, just connect the VCR directly to the soundcard and dispense with the loop through cable.

Within the recording software, the audio source is always the line-in of the soundcard.

loninappleton
27th June 2006, 21:48
This has been very helpful.

Thank you.


The connections seem to be simplifying now that the application is defined.

The object is to capture a couple old vhs tapes that are not
replaceable.


Is there way to get the vhs to a file for dvd burning using
a vhs player with only one sound out (RCA) and cable (BNC) connector which goes to tv playback?

This would be something like an RF to Composite converter.
Is such a thing available? It's my first time asking and I haven't looked yet. Such a converter would avoid having to
borrow a machine with composite out.


Once I know I can do this job, I may upgrade some of these
pieces.

Arachnotron
29th June 2006, 10:31
audio is simple: connect to one channel (left I think) and capture as mono.

Are you sure the BNC connector is RF and not composite video?

If it is indeed antenna, you could connect it to the antenna of the WinTV and tune this to the VCR channel. But I would strongly advise you to find a better VCR, since that way the vcr would take what is basically Y/C on tape, merge that to composite, modulate to RF, have that converted back to composite by the WinTV tuner, split up again in Y/C and finally captured. Especially the RF stage would introduce a lot of extra noise.

any cheap VCR with composite out would give you better quality than that.

loninappleton
29th June 2006, 19:15
My Sony Trinitron tv has both BNC and composite connections.

I had the player hooked up to the tv via BNC out but I don't know if the RF is standard at the tv or the player. I'll get out
the manual for clues.

Arachnotron
29th June 2006, 19:44
What are you calling BNC exactly? I don't know in which country you are, but on european consumer equipment, either SCART or RCA is used for composite and sound, while these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_169-2) are used for antenna. BNC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_connector) connectors on the other hand, are used for composite video on pro vcr's, not antenna.

But my guess is you are using antenna to connect the VCR to the TV at the moment, in which case your only option would be to use the tuner of the winTV and to capture it as if it were a TV broadcast. But the quality would suffer from doing so. It must be a very old VCR to be both mono and TV only. :) Try borrowing something better from someone or get one second-hand. They are cheap as chips right now. :)

loninappleton
2nd July 2006, 22:05
Yes, the WinTv has the standard antenna hookups and from the
age of all this stuff the vcr out rather than going to tv would
plug into the caoture baord tuner.

Up there it says this is not the preferred way to do things
but I'm wondering if I can at least get playback from the
WinTv software with the old video player running (?)

Where does the video get picked up by my vid card to a
monitor?

That way I'd at least know what I'm dealing with.

There's no composite in on the old Hauppauge
card. It has svideo but no RCA connects.



How do the newer capture systems work off of USB?


The vid card, not to mention sound, seems to be out of
the loop.


I have a manual, I read through it but it pretty much reads
like gobbeltygook. Are there any graphic representations of these hookups floating around from other sources than what I have?

Arachnotron
3rd July 2006, 20:16
Up there it says this is not the preferred way to do things
but I'm wondering if I can at least get playback from the
WinTv software with the old video player running (?)Sure, just plug in the antenna, set the winTV software to TV and tune the channels while the VCR is playing. It should find just 1 channel which has the VCR picture on it.

The wintv converts the video signal from the tuner to digital video. The WinTV software in turn plays this back again on your screen.

Most of this stuff is in the analog capture guide by the way.

The s-vid connector on the winTV is both s-vid and composite. These cards come with an adapter for that. It connects the composite signal to the Y pin of the Y/C s-vid connector. It is either a short s-vid (hosinden) to RCA cable or a small plastic adapter.

loninappleton
3rd July 2006, 21:01
Ok.


I still have a lot of playing around to do but if the connection
to the card is less complicated than when I first read it,
that will be a help.


Now to audio. My old player has just one line in and line out
RCA. The manual for the card was talking about recording the
audio separately then editing the final back together. I have used audio waveform editors to cut paste and fade in and fade
out but have no idea how to compile the audio and video files.

I received the old capture card bare-- no connectors at
all. When I looked at radio shack for that little svid to comp
connector, they said $20. When I looked for one online it
was a buck (in quantity) or $3 for one. Then there was this
fancy cable someplace else for over $70 with some sort of
chroma separator on the s-vid end. :-/


Thanks for the reply. I am making some progress. I'm
using an old machine I have to scratch build some of these
multimedia things before proceeding to other hardware.


So with the video cable problem somewhat solved, will a simple RCA to mini jack connect to line in on the card capture the audio? Then how does the completed digital progcess get done?

Where's the guide?

jggimi
3rd July 2006, 22:31
FAQ: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=32575
Guide: http://www.doom9.org/capture/start.html

loninappleton
4th July 2006, 05:08
Ye4p,m well sometimes the guide is the story on how to
make a watch when you just want to know what time it is.


Over time I've become frustrated with the 'if you want to
do this, go here, if you want to do that go there and if you
don't fine the answer then start over by going here etc etc.


Today what I would like to do is find out what works and what
doesn't and framre rates and such can be discussed aFTER
I figure out where the on button is.

To whit:

I have WinTV2k software installed and I am getting dll
errors.

I put the board in an old machine and Win98SE saw the device and I eventually got the driver installed. From a
previous install (which I changed for ease of getting at
the hardware repeatedly) I had made the program copies from another disk and they installed ok.

BTW, while reading the FAQ (I did read through the whole
thing) they said one piece of capture software is preferred which name I already forgot.

The btw question is can I use softeware other than that
specified from the manufacturer for bt8x8 board?


Ok back to original topic:

First error in Wintv32

"Wintv initialization aerror: a required component (hcw
Chan.dll is missing."


A different error in WinRadio (which I don't think I'll
ever use)

" A required DLL file HCWUTIL32.dll was not found.


These dll errors should not have anything to do with the
\fact that I have no connection to the video tape player I want to use and it is not hooked up yet.


So: how do I solve the dll errors?


or


What is the name of the replacement program to
capture the video and audio?


While going through the Wintv32 program install and
device driver install, the system wanted me to restart way
too many times. One dll here, one dll there all on the same
routine. How can this process be simplified?


The short term goal is to get playback on _some_ program
to know the card is working at all from the video tape player.

Arachnotron
5th July 2006, 20:06
a lot of what you ask is basic stuff that has been asked a zillion times on this forum or is in the faqs and guide jggimi pointed to. Spoon-feeding you a step by step guide to doing it is no fun for us either, you have to be willing to put in some research of your own.

However, the errors are specific and beyond the faq. Judging from the dll names, the Hauppauge drivers did not install completely.

I would suggest using winXP, re-installing the latest WDM drivers Hauppauge has to offer for the BT878 and downloading and installing the latest winTV2k app.
Hauppauge also has a utility for removing traces of older drivers. You might want to give that a try before installing the latest drivers.

Try getting it to work with your Tv antenna first, try the VCR later when you have the basics working.

Good luck.

loninappleton
5th July 2006, 20:40
Using WinXp is not an option. I don't even know if the card works.

Regards spoon feeding, I've run across this response before.

You might consider that you are tired of the forum and should
let someone who is willing to answer questions do so.


What is contained in most FAQs, yours included , are the
Frequent Non-Answers To Questions which amounts to a needle in a haystack.

But thanks for the tip on reinstalling. I'll try that and see if it
goes any smoother. Also will see if Virtual Dub will function on that old gear as a work around.

loninappleton
5th July 2006, 21:41
Using WinXp is not an option. I don't even know if the card works.

Regards spoon feeding, I've run across this response before.

You might consider that you are tired of the forum and should
let someone who is willing to answer questions do so.


What is contained in most FAQs, yours included , are the
Frequent Non-Answers To Questions which amounts to a needle in a haystack.

But thanks for the tip on reinstalling. I'll try that and see if it
goes any smoother. Also will see if Virtual Dub will function on that old gear as a work around.

loninappleton
5th July 2006, 21:53
Some progress.

I reinstalled the Hauppauge drivers and got rid of the
dll error which loaded with WinTV.


I connected the RF out of the vhs player to the cable
select of the card.


Perhaps the error I got has been seen before: the splash
screen for Wintv comes up center screen but then just
leaves a white hole and an indication of trying to load something (hourglass) it cannot find.


I had a tape running to see if anything could be monitored.


But I know that the channel select on the player has to match the tuner on the card.


I've not been able to get to that.


A couple of options are available:


Change the vhs player channel from 4 to 3 hoping to hit
a default.


Get a vhs composite video out to s-video cable and replug.


Get Virtual Dub or some other player that will allow me to
set up the playback channel on the card to match the player.


I'm going to check the WinTv manual for clues but some
sort of heads up about the screen blanking will be appreciated.

jggimi
5th July 2006, 22:34
Some self-sufficiency is required in order to survive here. It may be upsetting, but it is a fact of life. It's very difficult for us to look over your shoulder, and it isn't much fun for you either.

If the drivers are now installed properly, and your cabling is now correct, you should be able to use either Vdub or VirtualVCR to obtain your A/V content. Give either a try, per the Guide.

loninappleton
6th July 2006, 00:43
More progress.


By updating directX with a simple download and setting up
the video player's channel 4 and manually selecting channel
4 at the WinTv program I have video.


Magic. :-)


It's like hearing sound for the first time from an mp3 file.


The picture is pretty crappy though. The vid card is an
ancient ATI and the soundcard is also minimal on this
scratch system on which I am setting up.


Specific problems I'm noticing is poor resolution and failure
to keep up with some images.


Even so, I'd like to try to record to the 15G drive attached
just to see if I get anything.


As to sound, the WinTv and my soundcard both have
multiple connections.


There's a mini jack (1/8 in) line out on the capture.


The manual says the capture card won't do sound by itself.


So the next connection to make is from 1/8 line out to
soundcard line in ?


What I don't want to do is confuse the connection of the
1/8 jacks with the four pin headers used to go to cdrom
to get working sound monitored.


Thanks for your patience. All I really need is to be pointed in
the right direction. You may feel that FAQs do that. I find that I struggle with too much content and linkages which may
be for the current purposes a dead end.


There will always be noobs coming in here. 'Verbal' responses tend to get through what is old info on the FAQs---
some I noted from 2003.

jggimi
6th July 2006, 04:27
Image quality issues may have many sources... one common problem people have is RF Interference (I mention because you're using RF rather than composite or S-Video), or it could be your capture software configuration or driver, or something else entirely. Without a great deal more information, and perhaps sample images, all we can do is guess.

Switching to composite or S-video input will eliminate RFI -- if that happens to be your problem, or one of your problems. In addition, It should also improve the image quality, as both types of video signals are considered better than using RF.

----------

Let's talk sound....

When you use an RF connection ("Tuner") and select a channel, the sound is carried along with the video into the card. In order to get that sound out of the card, and into your speakers, it has to go from the capture card to your soundcard ... where your soundcard hardware and software will pump it out to your speakers.

The path the audio must take is with a short cord, that runs from an "audio out" socket on the capture card to an "audio in" or "line in" socket on your sound card. It cannot travel digitally between cards on your motherboard, it travels outside your PC along an external cord, and is nothing more than simple stereo audio.

When you use Composite or S-video as input, sound is NOT included in that signal, as you probably know. When using one of these two source types, you could route your sound from the source (VCR, cable box, etc.) directly to your soundcard. But, some people switch back and forth between Tuner (RF) and Composite or S-Video, and those people sometimes find that the "audio in" socket on the capture card is helpful. All that does is route the audio directly back out the "audio out" connection, but it is more convenient, as the user can switch between RF and video sources without having to reach behind the PC and swap audio cables around.

There are Y-cables you can obtain from local retailers around the planet that have two RCA plugs at one end, and a single 3.5mm stereo plug at the other. For stereo sources, use both RCA plugs (Right = Red, Left = White). For mono sources, use either.

loninappleton
6th July 2006, 20:48
I went shopping yesterday for a composite to svideo patch
cord again. Not much luck at the major stores so I'll have to get one from Jameco or someplace. At Radio Shack a converter is $20. Online the same gizmo is one buck US in
quantity.

I have quite a few 1/8 in sound patches and will dig those out.

Jeez, I'm getting a real spaghetti factory going back in
the work room. Work room has 2 pcs, both old, one given
to me. I have one on an ironing board for easy access. :-)


Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm going to follow your lead and get sound going and continue to search for an inexpensive
(under $6) composite to s-video patch.


From what you say, I should not have to get sound from
one file and edit it into a video capture for final conversion
to avi, is that correct?


My software, the WinTv 2000 prog. has a simple one touch
'record' button.' I hope that when I click on that it will ask
me about saving the file because I don't see where it says
'stop' recording.


With the tweaks I've been able to do to get video working
I'll have to see if VirtualDub kicks in for me. But I'm unclear if Vdub can be used as a simple player/viewer.


I know what you are going to say: " go to the guides."


Anyway, thanks for the detailed reply.

Boulder
6th July 2006, 21:01
I wouldn't use the Hauppauge program for capturing. You can save a lot of a/v resync work by using the latest VirtualDub.

loninappleton
6th July 2006, 21:43
I wouldn't use the Hauppauge program for capturing. You can save a lot of a/v resync work by using the latest VirtualDub.


Ok.


It might be easier to troubleshoot that prog since everyone
recommends it.


Today I'm doing the sound hookup-- or trying to. The
color coding on the old SB Live card is blue red and green.

Green is out to my sound amplification source: Radio Shack
mini amp called the SA 155. That works. I did a streaming
audio test of a news show and the sound plays ok.


But neither the Red nor the blue has given any audio from
what I see as line out on the Hauppauge. SB Lives have markings but they are not all that clear.

I am still connected for video via the RF/cable connects.


With this assembly, could I test the vhs player by going from
RCA on the player to 1/8 line in on the card?


I've blown up sound cards in the past by fooling around.


Next time I'll give any news on the Virtual Dub prog.


The one thing I've learned to do in all this is spell Hauppauge.

;-)

loninappleton
7th July 2006, 22:36
More success to report but some fresh questions.

A connect to the soundcard directly from the vhs player
gives me sound now whereas no audio was coming from the
RF connection.


Also I got VirtualDub going with picture and sound by
selecting Line in under the audio tab.


While monitoring the audio and video, what i can't seem to get right is the brightness. I've tried to get some brightness
on the picture but it remains very dark.

Are there any chroma level controls within VirtualDub to get
the picture viewable that I've missed?


Also the image does not want to go full window in VDub.

jggimi
7th July 2006, 23:08
...A connect to the soundcard directly from the vhs player gives me sound now whereas no audio was coming from the
RF connection...I wrote this, in my last post, which I will repeat here and highlight for your review. Perhaps you missed it.When you use an RF connection ("Tuner") and select a channel, the sound is carried along with the video into the card. In order to get that sound out of the card, and into your speakers, it has to go from the capture card to your soundcard ... where your soundcard hardware and software will pump it out to your speakers.

The path the audio must take is with a short cord, that runs from an "audio out" socket on the capture card to an "audio in" or "line in" socket on your sound card. It cannot travel digitally between cards on your motherboard, it travels outside your PC along an external cord, and is nothing more than simple stereo audio....Are there any chroma level controls within VirtualDub to get
the picture viewable that I've missed? Chapter 7, section 1.9 of the guide you don't like is about color correction during post when using VirtualDub.

Your driver may or may not allow color correction on input.

...Also the image does not want to go full window in VDub.Virtual Dub is a linear editor with capture capability, it is not a player. The FAQ you don't like discusses players in the answer to Q3.

Unfortunately, I am forced to remind you to review our forum rules, in particular, Rules #1 and #1a, because you are still in violation of them.

You are going to have to follow our rules if you want to survive here. You agreed to them when you joined us, and we insist you abide by them. You'll find a link at the top of every forum page.

loninappleton
7th July 2006, 23:24
All I did was bypass the audio at the capture card and plugged
direct to the SB Live.


In VDub by activating Line In in the program and using
a y -connector from the mono source, I'm getting the
stereo level display in VDub along with the video.



The program looks like it's working. So at this point I can
start to make some sense of the text of the guide.


How many "violators" do you usually get?

jggimi
7th July 2006, 23:34
I'm glad you've finally got it going.

We have approximately 90,000 members -- at all sorts of skill levels (both technical and social), and from all over the planet. Moderators are here both to guide and manage the various fora, and that includes upholding rules and sometimes enforcing compliance.

In this case, you're a very friendly and polite violator.

loninappleton
8th July 2006, 04:13
You've given a number of specific references in the guide
in this thread on which I will follow up.

loninappleton
12th July 2006, 20:34
Ok. I'm back.

The guide is long and dense and I'm getting what I can out of
it. I would prefer seeing this in printed form for a couple reasons which I will get to but I want to know if the guide
has a pdf to print to paper?


The first reason for this is: reading long involved pieces one
screen at a time gives me a headache and makes me real
crabby.

The second reason is I found out that trying to have the guide
loaded on the connection where I need it and opening Virtual Dub at the same time produces an error. I wanted to adjust the settings by flipping back and forth which, you guessed it,
gives me a headache as well but the program locks up.

So the alternative is load the guide on one machine and
adjust Vdub on the other.


I'm also not clear as to whether my capture source should be running while all this is going on.

Lastly I have a composite to svideo adapter on order which
hasn't come yet.


Neither the capture guide nor the program seems to say
where to stop and start capture unless that is in the
buttons below the main window.

Later for that. I'm still doing settings for NTSC. My sound is going and my picture is going. But I'm on the sneaker net to make program adjustments.

Boulder
12th July 2006, 21:04
Did you try downloading the compiled help file, the links are in the first post of the sticky thread? Maybe that can be printed in an easy way.

loninappleton
12th July 2006, 21:28
My source for a printer is not here at home. I have to do
screen prints or pdfs. I'll see what I can do.


Today nothing wants to co-operate. I am getting blue screened all over the place in attempting to do even the simplest setup.

One of the page fault messages is:

something something vxd having to do with a virtual
device driver spoze.

I couldn't get past the blue screen and went totally blank.

What I managed to do was 'turn off overly" and select
preview to keep the image going. Doing this does not
display any stats in the stat window.

Other weird thing that happens is the OS resets to 640x400
so there is some conflicts going on here.


Also I could not find the Direct Draw acceleration option
at all.


This is where things break down in the "everything is in the guide" concept. I should be able to find the options at least.