x264 & XVID on dualcore CPUs

[Inc]

Hi, this topic in general already has been discussed several times, but here Im trying to catch some facts and also experiencies.


In the next 2 Months when mabye Athlon drops their price on the x2 3800+ and Intel on the 805 D or better 930 D CPUs these Cpus can be very interesting for xvid/x264 encoders.

Shure, you can also wait to get the Intel conroe core, but beside bigger CPU prices someone also should take into account that 975 Mainboards also will still have their big prices, so .... the "lowBudget + max efficience" relation on the alternatives listed above could become a good choice for many encoding people.

Till now I only have experiencies on Athlon XPs on Nforce2 Boards and for shure their OC capabilities. Since 2 Years Im running on an Abit NF7 a xp1800+ DLT3C JIUHB at almost real 2400Mhz at 1.75Vcore which is pipelined at real 217Mhz FSB using 2 Twinmos Winbond 256Mb Modules.
Socket Temps do never go above 46c, so two years ago that was imho the best relation between price/efficience/stability as I never had probs.


Now as I do have a HTPC I wonna switch to x264/xvid but the encoding speed using x264 on such a XP-Tbred/Nforce2 setup still to me is a horror when encodng a full movie at 2 pass 264 using good qualiy settings.


Now here comes what Im thinking about (2 alternatives):

Alt. 1.
Getting a x2 3800+ and an Asrock Dual SATA2 Board which has been proofed to be a very good Mobo for overclocking the X2 3800+ if a little vcore mod will be applyied. So final real 2500Mhz wont be a problem IF a CPU with a good stepping is yours.
When using this board I still could use my well running DDR400 RAMs and of course no new PCIe Graphics card would be needed as that board does still support the AGP8x architecture.

Alt. 2.
Getting a 930 D Intel Processor and an ASUS p5wd2 Mobo which can be at least easely OCed to 3750Mhz on each core.
Ok, there has been a very impressing review from TomsHardware ( http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/ ) in the www which shows how to OC that very popular 805 D CPU up to 3.6Ghz (AirC) and 4.0Ghz (WaterC). But the more recent D 930 Models do have better OC capabilities by still staying cooler than the 805ers and also less Powerconsuption as a 4Ghz 805 which will end up in over 200Watts!! But even OCed D 930 Series do eat less power than OCed D 805ers they wil still be more hungry compared to an OCed x2 3800+.
This 930 D Alternative also would need new DDR2 Rams (reports did show in encoding benchm. that the diff. between 667 and 800 Rams is marginal) and also a new PCIe Graphics card.


In both cases cooling is not the problem as I do got a watercooling system.


Q1: Is it true that x264 and maybe also XVID do benefit significantly from "2 physical cores" CPUs??

Q2: So gentlemen, .... what are your experiencies on such dual core systems ... what could be the better choice for x264/Xvid encodings?


Thanks for your advertence.
Inc :)

[Eretria-chan]

Q1: Yes
Q2: Yes
Using RealAnime, I get ~14 fps on Medium and ~6 fps on High. Which is definetly more than I had when I didn't have a dual core.

[Inc]

Regarding Q2 I meant which one of the both alternatives (D 930 / X2 3800+) would be a better choice.
I know both do support SSE/SSE2/SSE3 but is Xvid/x264 designed better for the athlon or the Intel CPUs?

[Eretria-chan]

As you know, Athlon64 beats any Intel processor on the market now (until Conroe comes) in each and every way.

[bkman]

As you know, Athlon64 beats any Intel processor on the market now (until Conroe comes) in each and every way.

Actually, I believe that the Pentium EE 955 and 965 outperform the Athlon FX-60 in x264 encoding. According to iXBT benchmarks, anyway.

[Eretria-chan]

Even so, it is more power hungry and is outperformed in everything else. Athlon64 is simply the way to go now. Or you could wait and see what the future holds.

[Inc]

Gentlemen, lets stay on topic regarding the 2 mentioned Alternatives above, as I want to point on "LowBudget<->BestWhatICanMakeOf" alternatives.
Intel P EE955/645 and FX-?? are far from what I want to invest, sorry ;)

For a D 805 OC'ed (a D930 should result even a tiny bit better):
http://tomshardware.thgweb.de/2006/04/27/update_nicht_von_amd_dual_4_1_ghz_fuer_120_euro/page29.html
further below

And also here (generally non OC'ed):
http://tomshardware.thgweb.de/2005/11/03/benchmark_marathon_82_cpus_von_amd_und_intel/page76.html

So if someone really would beleive in those THG Charts ... both do almost end up in the same. But as we know such official benches are nice but -> ;)

Im getting closer and think next month when the Intel Conroe gets released and AMDs X2 CPUs will drop in prices about 50% (thats official) I gonna make myself a present by choosing a X2 3800+ one. According to the threads in here Athlons seem to be a tick faster but what also counts much less power consumption.
I reme,ber those days when people in here said that P4s should be the better choice when emcoding ... but there the main used engines where CCE and Tmpgenc ;)

[Eretria-chan]

I stand firm. There is really no choice in the matter... Athlon64 X2 are the way to go. Even should they find themselves slightly below Intel in encoding they are superior in everything else and draws less power, so in the end you will benefit from AMD's solution.

AMD: Best choice in both budget and performance. They perform better than Pentiums and draw less power. I don't really see a choice here. There is no tough decision on as what to get.

[foxyshadis]

I know I'd rather have quiet power than overclocked extremes. I haven't been able to hear my computers in two years now and I'm tremendously glad for it. The benefit of X2 is that it's now an extremely mature process and can be undervolted, overclocked, or both with little effort; the more expensive EE X2s are just undervolted regular chips and otherwise profit (same as intel's LV/ULV chips, except they now restrict the minimum voltage to keep LV profit margins safe; maybe AMD will follow). It's common knowledge that 5000+ are just picked from the same lines as the other X2s and certified as being stable that high.

But you know that if you wait a few more months, Intel will start paying you to take 800s and 900s off their hands. :p

[HardwareGeek]

Q1: Is it true that x264 and maybe also XVID do benefit significantly from "2 physical cores" CPUs?
Q2:...what could be the better choice for x264/Xvid encodings?
The following benchmarks show the dual-core cpus way outperforming single core cpus on encoding tasks: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736&p=8. XVID and H.264 are even two of the tests. Most encoding applications seem to be multi-threaded, so they automatically make good use of that second core.

As you can see, the budget Intel dual-core chips do quite well. The flip side is that they consume more power and run hotter, for which see these power consumption tests: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736&p=10.

If you are willing to consider a Core 2, there should be plenty of inexpensive motherboards based on the P965 chipset by the time that Core 2 ships. You don't have to get the ultra-expensive Bad-Axe motherboard. So how does Core 2 perform at media encoding, compared to AMD & NetBurst? See http://www.hkepc.com/hwdb/x6800vsfx62-10.htm. Approximately 19% & 27%, respectively, on Divx; & 5% & 9% on WME.

You ought to be able to get a Core 2 for around $300 (USD) soon. The Pentium D 800 series can be had for less than $100 when Core 2 ships. I guess the other chips will be priced somewhere in between these two extremes.

All the best

[foxyshadis]

I'm not sure how much good that benchmark is, given that the only processors being considered are at the bottom rungs instead of the top. Unless you mean to show how overclockable the base models are; all three families support the wildest OCs I've seen since the AXP days.

(Post-July price sheets: AMD (http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/1779_large_full_pricing.png), Intel (http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/news.php?tid=604489))

You can see that the lowest Conroe should be quite a value if hardware forums are to be believed, but at cost of having to entirely upgrade ram as well, and even entry-level Conroe mobos are more expensive than mid-range 939 mobos.

[Inc]

Foxyshadis,

I do duplicate your statement at the last line.

The lowest Coroe does run at 1.86 Ghz according to http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/news.php?tid=604489 and will cost about $183.

The one that beated the FX (where that Athlon was OCed high IIRC) at THG was a 2.67 one!
http://tomshardware.thgweb.de/2006/06/04/intel-conroe-erste-benchmarks/page6.html
... which will cost about $530!

So a 975x board will cost about $180 (aprox.)

So the low-budget aspect is blown away ;)

An x2 3800+ in Germany currently costs about 220€ and that price is already below the official vendor price recomm. from Athlon. So I think it won't drop below 150€ in real - so the expected "50% less for x2's" is based on the official vendor price recommendation.

So it seems that that "heater" D 805 will cost about $93
... the 930 will be out of production in July which would be uncool as that one comes with a very nice multiplier and still official 95Watts at default. The 940 will cost about 183$ but comes with a lower multiplier IIRC and the default Watts are higher .. 130?? Anyhow that one was reported to be capable running behind 4.2Ghz.

But as said in here the one thing is Cycles and the other PowerConsumption.

When do I start my big encodings? Shurely at night, so I want that encoding to finish in less total time meanwhile Im sleeping. So what to me counts is speed, but in a good relation to the effective consumpted Watts. Im already consuming about 2500Kwh per year and my monthly pre-charge is about 40€ here in Cologne ... would be nice it that one could be kept or even -> lowered.

;) I dont "turn every coin" as they say in germany but ... if youre a viede freak and have a Television 32", DDsystem, HTPC etc .... beside other things in the household ... the bill rises ;)

[Eretria-chan]

If you are concerned about power, I would recommend Athlon. Especially if you consider the AM2 ones. They will be available in low power consumption models, more than the socket 939 ones. That will make your bill as low as possible.

[HardwareGeek]

The lowest Coroe ... will cost about $183.

The one that beated the FX ... was a 2.67 one! ... which will cost about $530!Not sure if I catch your meaning. The Athlon chip costs over $1,000 (USD). That's a $530 chip outperforming a $1,000 chip. Core 2s should outperform anything that comparatively priced.

So a 975x board will cost about $180There should be more affordable boards based on the 965P Chipset from several different board makers by the time that Core 2 ships.

the one thing is Cycles and the other PowerConsumption
Here are some power consumption benchmarks, showing Core 2 consuming 21% and 25% less than AMD & Intel counterparts at idle, and 16% and 19% less at full load: http://www.hkepc.com/hwdb/x6800vsfx62-11.htm. That's an AM2 AMD CPU. AMD is to come out with energy efficient and energy efficient small form factor CPUs rated at 65W & 35W TDP. These should be more competitive from a power consumption perspective, but I don't know if they are shipping yet. And they are supposed to cost more.

Don't mean to knock AMD's dual core processors (or single core processors). They are fine chips. But if cycles and power consumption are your primary concerns, then you should consider Core 2.

[HardwareGeek]

I'm not sure how much good that benchmark is, given that the only processors being considered are at the bottom rungs instead of the top
He was interested in Pentium D 805 performance, and the benchmarks give him that.

He was interested in Athlon 64 X2 3800 performance. That chip is there in the graphs, too.

The only thing missing is the Pentium D 930, and the graphs show a 920 instead.

Thanks for the price chart, tho' :)

[foxyshadis]

Oh right, I looked at the last link and forgot that you posted the other two. ^^;

[Inc]

@ HardwareGeek
He was interested in Pentium D 805 performance, and the benchmarks give him that.

He was interested in Athlon 64 X2 3800 performance. That chip is there in the graphs, too.

The only thing missing is the Pentium D 930, and the graphs show a 920 instead.
...
...
Not sure if I catch your meaning. The Athlon chip costs over $1,000 (USD). That's a $530 chip outperforming a $1,000 chip. Core 2s should outperform anything that comparatively priced.
In that point of view youre totally right. but .... I do refer to the relation of price and capable power (not default power).

I would never buy such an expensive x2 4800+ or even a FX as it has been shown that x2 3800+ easely can be at least OCed to 2400-2500Mhz using a good aircooling equipment.
Stable, low temps, and fast.

The 805 is (for me) out of the list as it'll get very hot and Watts-eating at a power level compared to an amd x2 OCed to 2500Mhz.
The 930 is nice and OCed at 4Ghz less hot and power consumpting but still significant more power consumpting than an AMD x2 @ 2500Mhz.

So in short words .... I do compare these CPUs in an OC view. ;)
And that view I also take into account when looking at Benchmarks.

The Benches in the www give themselves the hand when comparing an AMD x2 3800+ @ 2500 and a D 930 @ 4Ghz. At Bench a) the AMD is slightly faster than the 930 and at Bench b) its the other way around.

Also I recognised that VideoEncodings if I understood right in relation do not benefit that much in higher Memory timings/FSBs. It seems that in such workflows the CPU clock rate in here is the main actor. Also bigger Cache CPUs compared to their same MHz-but less Cache Models in such Benches just rise the effective encoding time about 0,5-1%.

Well ... the prices are already dropping on x2 AMD's. 3 Days ago the most cheap tray x2 3800+ did cost about 229€ .... today its 199€. Intel 9xx ones are still stable in their prices (270€ boxed).

I had a very interesting exchange with a member at an OC board who gave me his point of view:
"If buying a CPU NOW or even when Conroe is released and AMD x2's are price dropped regarding to conroes power you have to see your buy as a temporary solution. So try at least to invest into stuff which will support a conroe in the near future when the first price-drop of the conroes occures. A p5wd2-e from Asus uses a 975 chip which also will be Conroe compatible. Good DDR2 Rams can be satisfactionally used the next years and PCIe Cards like the x1300pro supporting AVIVO will useful for your VideoEncoding purposed system for a long time. So if I where you, I would get that ASUS 975 Board, at least a 2x512 RAM 667 Kit (or better 2x 1024) and a D 930 which ca be exchanged by a conroe core 2 duo in half a year or so. The D930 will still have its friends on ebay and at that time maybe getting 50-80€s are possible. So the D 930 will run for half a year in your machine and as you have a watercoolig you simply just have to change the fastener".

This subject is very interesting and I do lay back and whatch what happens till next month ;)

[HardwareGeek]

I would never buy such an expensive x2 4800+ or even a FXI stay away from the most expensive also.
VideoEncodings ... do not benefit that much in higher Memory timings/FSBsI believe that this is correct, because the bottleneck in encoding applications is primarily the CPU.
"... So if I where you, I would get that ASUS 975 Board ..."I would get a mainstream P965 board, rather than a performance 975X board, unless you want a performance board (they tend to cost $200-$300 USD). You should be able to get a board for $100 or so (USD) soon. This person, for instance, was able to get a 965 board for less than $100: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1528631&postcount=11. 965 will do Core 2.

[Inc]

I would get a mainstream P965 board, rather than a performance 975X board,Many members in oc boards asked if its possible overclocking an 805 or even 930 using lowcost boards.
The most importand is not only the chipset, its the bios and its setting capabilitites, the supported height of the FSB and verrry importand (which most lowcost boards do not support) a high enough power providing multiple phase (up to 8) voltageregulator.

The P5ND2-SLI from asus (about 90€) is very tweakable but you wont reach 4Ghz on a D930 as the FSB capabilities do break the approach.
On the other hand on a D 805 where much higher Vcores are needed to hit 4Ghz ... here youll end up with that voltageregulator issue.
The P5WD2 (955x) from Asus does provide enough powerstability but if you want to support future Conroe CPUs youll have to consider the 975x model P5WD2-E

[dragongodz]

and just to throw another little rumour in to the mix :)
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32589

[soresu]

I read that earlier today, and it sounded like AMD pulled a sneaky card out of its sleave to fight Intel with. They had some guy half joke to the media that they were working on Reverse-HT for the K10 architecture, but they were really putting it in now to fight Core 2!

The question I would ask AMD is - How fast can the processor switch between SMP and Reverse-HT modes?

If alot of Avisynth is still limited to a single threaded architecture, then how long will it take for the CPU to switch to Reverse HT and then back again to use the SMP mode for the encoder.

It will become even more interesting when AMD's quad core CPU's become available, then it could dedicate two cores to a single thread app, and two cores to a parallel threaded app.

[HardwareGeek]

if you want to support future Conroe CPUs youll have to consider the 975x model P5WD2-EI'm sure this is a fine board.

I hope that there is not confusion here between the 965 chipset and the 900 series CPUs, like the 930. There's no relation whatsoever between the P965 chipset and the 900 series Pentium D. Boards based on the 965 chipset are not readily available yet, because the chipset was just released at Computex, but they will be soon. This is the chipset specifically designed with the Core 2 processor family in mind. Once the boards are more available, I'm sure the OC community will go to work testing and making recommendations about which are good boards to OC.

Performance chipsets (like the 975x) are overkill for most people. There are good boards based on mainstream chipsets (like the P965) that make good overclockers, also.

[HardwareGeek]

and just to throw another little rumour in to the mix :)
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32589
Rumor has it that Intel is working on this, too: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=104178.

[HardwareGeek]

alot of Avisynth is still limited to a single threaded architectureThis is the sort of application that could take advantage of the alleged reverse hyperthreading or core multiplexing.

[dragongodz]

Rumor has it that Intel is working on this, too: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=104178
i would be surprised if they werent.

interesting thread that one. ignoring some of the rabid fanboy posts in it, its easy to see nobody really knows if Intels solution is the same or similar or anything really. dont you love rumours ? :D

all these things though do tend to suggest what i said in this thread
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=112124

that is unless your current pc is actually dead a person is better off waiting for a month or 2. that way they will not only have the price cuts that are happening but be able to see more independant tested results and hopefully more concrete evidence of what is and isnt happening tech wise.

[HardwareGeek]

interesting thread that one. ignoring some of the rabid fanboy posts ...That was me :eek:

[BigDid]

Asrock has done it again!

At the beginning of the thread the choice was between:
AMD with (now) cheap dual core CPU, DDR and a Cheap mobo: the Asrock Dual SATA2
and INTEL with cheap dual core CPU, DDR2 and more expensive Mobo.

Now AsROck has done it again with the intel Mobo 775Dual-VSTA:
- 50 to 60 €
- Accepts Intel dual core
- Accepts AGP or PCI-E
- Accepts DDR or DDR2
link:
http://www.asrock.com/product/775Dual-VSTA.htm
Tests:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=10
http://www.ocworkbench.com/2006/asrock/775Dual-VSTA/g1.htm

Did

[Inc]

Be aware that you cant set the vcore on this 775Dual-VSTA, just informing if someone expects OC capabilities.

[dragongodz]

50 to 60 €
can you provide a link/website showing that sort of price please ?

just informing if someone expects OC capabilities.
people shouldnt really take overclocked results as real either. i always find reviews showing overclocked values a bit questionable since there is no way it proves what people are going be able to do when they buy the same cpu. there is no way they can guarentee it so whats being proven by showing it ?

[foxyshadis]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157092&ATT=13-157-092&CMP=OTC-d3alt1me

(no idea what sort of retailers are good in Australia, sorry)

From what I've seen of those with engineering samples, no one's run into cpu problems from OCing a E6xxx. (Of course these people know what they're doing when it comes to cooling.) Well, maybe the top ones if you stretch a good board to its limits. It's usually ram or motherboard that fails first and limits it. Only the unlocked X6800 easily goes high enough to destablize the cpu.

If you're expecting to buy a 3 ghz and get 6 out of it, well, certainly then you're gambling that you won't end up with one that barely does 4, if that. But otherwise Intel's just artificially limiting their lines for profit, which they've done many times in the past and AMD does now. (Not always top speeds - core chips have high minimum voltages so that LV and ULV can be sold with higher margins.) It's made them rich, so I can understand why.

[BigDid]

can you provide a link/website showing that sort of price please ?...
Sure,

In France 49.9€: http://boutique.3dchips-fr.com/product_info.php/products_id/4403
In the US 58.99$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157092&ATT=13-157-092&CMP=OTC-d3alt1me
In Australia 92.39 Aus$: http://www.shopbot.com.au/p-19145.html

Did

[dragongodz]

BigDid - thanks. though asrock also make a similar AM2 board http://www.asrock.com/product/AM2NF3-VSTA.htm thats as low as $81.99 (Aus$) found on shopbot. :)

good to see some cheaper boards for both though.

[BigDid]

BigDid - thanks. though asrock also make a similar AM2 board...
Yep, but you don't have choice between AGP/PCI-E and DDR/DDR2.

While on the subject, ASRock just revamped the 939 Dual-SATA2, it's now named 939Dual-VSTA, seems exactly the same specs and the same PCB, at least ont the upper side, here: http://www.asrock.com/product/939Dual-VSTA.htm
+ Windows VISTA ready :p
Did

[ArcticFox]

Has anyone got any proper benchmarks, Quicktime Pro is hardly the best solution for encoding H.264, something a little better than 4.4 minutes, it doesnt say what resolution, what bitrate, what source, etc..

[BigDid]

...
Now here comes what Im thinking about (2 alternatives):

Alt. 1.
Getting a x2 3800+ and an Asrock Dual SATA2 Board which has been proofed to be a very good Mobo for overclocking the X2 3800+ if a little vcore mod will be applyied...

Alt. 2.
Getting a 930 D Intel Processor and an ASUS p5wd2 Mobo which can be at least easely OCed to 3750Mhz on each core...
Hi,

As we are in august now, interested to know :
1. if you already made your choice?
2. Bought your new config?

I'm kind of pondering myself, this is why I ask.
Thanks for infos.

Did

[BigDid]

^ Up, in case Inc is around. Thanks.

Did

[Inc]

Nope I didnt buy anything, as I'll wait for the 775 HighEnd-Mainboards dropping in their price too. An Asus P5wdh Deluxe would be my favorite now, but here in germany it still costs about 200€.

[Surf]

I read somewhere that the new conroe can handle encoding, surfing, watching(a movie), darn the socks, boil pasta all at the same time.

So, anyone with this new cpu can verify this? Am getting tired of no puter when it's encoding....

The lowest(cheapest) E6300 is clocked from 1.86g to 3.6g.....~faint~!

[BigDid]

Hi to all,

Still surveying prices and O/C possibilities for the AMD x2 4200 see here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=861271#post861271 and here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=859073#post859073

Recent articles on undervolting: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/375/1/
and overcloking: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/373/1/

Ok I know, it only goes from 2.2 -> 2.9 Ghz with air cooling :D

I am not interested in the "extreme" possibilities but I am now quite confident to be capable to get 2.6Ghz.

Did

[HardwareGeek]

I read somewhere that the new conroe can handle encoding, surfing, watching(a movie), darn the socks, boil pasta all at the same time.

So, anyone with this new cpu can verify this?
Lots of benchmarks from all over the web confirm this.

Here's just one page of DivX, WME, & H.264 benchmarks, with overclocked and non-overclocked versions of the two lowest end Core 2 Duos: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802&p=8.

Above benchmarks also include Core 2 Extreme, non-overclocked.

For anyone who does lots of encoding, like so many in this forum, it is well worth the little extra money.
Am getting tired of no puter when it's encoding
What CPU do you currently have? Any genuine dual-core CPU, AMD or Intel, should help you do your work while you encode in the background.

[jimlim007]

Halo, just buy what u like, then u will be happy of your choice ! it's simple :p

[BigDid]

Halo, just buy what u like, then u will be happy of your choice ! it's simple :p
Hi,

This is a strange statement. If I follow you: I like the new dual core duos, If I buy one (the biggest cause I like it :D ) I will need to upgrade:
- the ram -> DDR2
- The MOBO
- the graphic card -> PCI Express

But I don't have the money for all that. Will you give it to me ( nearly 1000$) ? :scared:
I suppose not :( so I will have to buy not what I like but what I can afford; and that will probably be an AMD 4200 and a low-end Socket939 MOBO like the ASROCK 939 Dual-SATA2 .

There is even a song by the rolling stones saying "You can't always get what you want..." :)

Did

[dragongodz]

BigDid - i would assume he meant in the person price range. that is if you are considering an e6300 for example then you do have the option of getting an amd cpu around the same sort of price. also the performance differences, since the amd price cuts, is not as big as some people or web sites would like people to believe for these much closer priced cpus.

[jimlim007]

i m so tired of see this kind of issue (commpare and benchmarking Intel & AMD CPU). Ppl are like to attack each other....

......so, just believe and trust your choice, u like what u want & afford to buy, just buy it, rather than after bought only feel regret why urself done the "wrong decision". make you simple and happy............

here came another story, i have a fren, is oso amd's fan. he say core 2 duo is suck cpu and amd is the best. I denied it and say cuurently most world are giving heavy press on Core 2 Duo positively. He say all the magazine editor and those web site like Tomb or Anandtech etc...are paid by intel in order to get the good press. Then i counter him back, how about last time when athlon have a lot press by other. then he just quite.......From this case it is simple, mind set is the 1st level of particular person to be behave. as they like. It seem last time Athlon benchmarking result are valid and now Core 2 Duo benchmarking are invalid for those amd fan.

But i dont care, i believe my choice, i trust my dollar that already ordered my E6600.....i m happy :D bcos i get the thing that i "desired"

[Inc]

... If I buy one (the biggest cause I like it :D ) I will need to upgrade:
- the ram -> DDR2
- The MOBO
- the graphic card -> PCI Express

But I don't have the money for all that. Will you give it to me ( nearly 1000$) ? :scared:

Heres your choice when using your DDRAM and AGP card:
http://www.asrock.com/product/775Dual-VSTA.htm

Do search in the www for english reviews. In the german boards its called to be the best relation between price and value/options.

As the E6300 comes as a 266(FSB)*7(multi) = 1862Mhz CPU
... you could at least archive 2030Mhz by bumping up the FSB to 290.
I strongly would suggest purchasing a E6400 -> its worth as it comes with 8* multiplier. So 290FSB on this Asrock Board gives you 2320Mhz! (8*290).

For shure you could archive even more Mhz but this forces you getting a Mobo wich supports up to 450Mhz FSB fawlessly like the Asus p5wdh (intel 975x), a Asus P5B Deluxe(intel 965p) or a Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6(intel 965p) but these ones also do force you to buy new DDR2 Rams and a PCIe graphics card.

So an Asrock 775Dual-VSTA incl. a E6400 which can be OCed till 2300Mhz will cost you about 270 Euros an I think its the best what you can get for the money at this moment.

[dragongodz]

It seem last time Athlon benchmarking result are valid and now Core 2 Duo benchmarking are invalid for those amd fan.
you must admit some of the benchmarks done have been questionable. for example comparing an E6600 and up but not E6300 and E6400 and yet comparing to an athlon x2 4600+ etc.
when there is a big price difference in cpus being compared there is no way you can say its an even playing field.

i personally dont care who buys what. its the rather rabid fanboyism that risen, "core2 is the best for everything"(no model distinction at all), from some of these questionable reviews that annoys me.

[HardwareGeek]

"core2 is the best for everything"
It's pretty much true. Core 2 wins hands down on almost all benchmarks, the chief exception being synthetic memory bandwidth benchmarks and some latency tests.

The advantage of AMD is great technology (HyperTransport, on-die memory controller, etc.) at a bargain price these days.

[BigDid]

Heres your choice when using your DDRAM and AGP card:
http://www.asrock.com/product/775Dual-VSTA.htm...
Hi,

It reminds me of something ... Yes: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=855528#post855528
:D

Did

[Inc]

Yes and my post was a clear answer to your "cost" issue: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=866198#post866198

I do quote:
- the ram -> DDR2
- The MOBO
- the graphic card -> PCI Express

But I don't have the money for all that. Will you give it to me ( nearly 1000$)
So whats your target? Getting the max possible or the best for lower price?

If you wonna keep your AGP and DDR Ram hardware then no other coice then an ASrock board (same at Athlon side).

If anyway you want to purchase new RAM then do invest in DDR2 and get one of those Asus or Gigabyte Boards listet in my post above incl. a 40€ PCIe Graphics Card sufficient for most video jobs and no gaming.

But watch out as these new generation boards often do come with only one IDE Jacket, means only 2 Drives are supported natively. If you have more than 2 drives actually connected, then get an Asus p5wdh board or do use one of these SATA-IDE adaptors (if those make sense and work properly - I've no clue).

Also do watch the count of PCI slots, cause most boards only do provide 2 PCI slots beside PCIe etc.. If you got more than 2 useful PCI cards (like capture/DVB/HQSoundCard) then .. well ;)

I just had a look for myself and my personal hall of fame would be when choosing a Cor2Duo + new DDr2 + new PCIe GraCard:

1. Asus P5WDH Deluxe (975x) = 3 PCI, 2 IDE, FireWire, SPDIF in/out
2. Asus Asus P5B Deluxe (p965) = 3PCI, 1 IDE, Firewire, SPDIF in/out
3. MSI NEO-F (p965) = 3 PCI, 1 IDE, no Firewire, no SPDIF

[BigDid]

Sorry, I missed your post and had a sad day: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=866668#post866668

I think I will not post for a while so to answer your question I think I will upgrade a -minima- the mobo and an amd64 x2. With the Asrock I will be able later to upgrade to a PCI Express card and later later I will see. Bye.

Did