Creating a simple root menu and adding it with PgcEdit

[Kayaker]

Hi there.


I'm joining a flipper into one DVD with PgcEdit.

The navigation of each side is pretty simple (each one has just one VTS), so mi idea is have 2 VTS of each side and a new basic root menu to select side 1 or 2 and jump to the correct VTS.

So far no problems with importing a titleset and fixing jumps.

But the question is, can I build a simple root menu inside PgcEdit or should I build the menu in another authoring tool and then import it in with PgcEdit ?

I've tried to build a simple root menu with dvdauthor (with GUI for DVD author) and I'm getting a stupid "ERR: No .IFO files to process" at the end.
Still haven't figured out what is going on.

[bigotti5]

I've tried to build a simple root menu with dvdauthor..

To jump to different VTS you have to create a VMGM menu (Title menu) and not root menus.
Import your menu in VMGM domain and fit your (button)commands

[r0lZ]

You can use any DVD Authoring program to build your menu (preferably a Title menu, as it is easier to jump to the right VTS from the VMGM, as bigotti5 explained.)
Most of the authoring program will refuse to produce the menu if you don't have at least one VTS. Personally, I use DVD-Lab to build my menus. Usually, I create a tiny VTS with a single frame video, and I link all menu buttons to that title. Then, I import the VMGM with PgcEdit, and I change the button commands to jump to the right titles or root menus.

Note that you can import a VTSM as a VMGM menu with PgcEdit. If you do it, don't forget to change the menu type from Root menu to Title menu.

[Kayaker]

Thanks guys.

I thought about that "trick" of inserting a dummy video, but I thought that I was complicating it to much.
But if that's the way to go, I'll try that.

From the point of view of an authoring program I suppose it doesn't make sense a DVD with just a menu and jumps to things that doesn't exist.

I'll try that and write back if I got any problems.

[Kayaker]

So far no problems creating a Title menu and importing it with PGCEdit.

BTW, Any places to steal... I mean borrow somes menus ?
I'm a total moron in graphics skills. My menus are horrible. I don't have any aesthetic clue whatsoever...

But the folowing problem I got was with PUO.
I cleared all the PUO everywhere and still can't go to title menu from the two roots menus or the 2 PGCs.
At least with Power DVD. it's like it's still somewhat a PUO.
Don't know how. I cleared all PUO everywhere.
Maybe thru a register ? can be blocked thru registers ?

Remember I was joining a flipper.

[r0lZ]

Are you sure the Title menu exists? It must be labelled "TitleM" by PgcEdit.
Also, if the Title Menu PGC has no buttons, verify that the PGC with your menu buttons is correctly called from the TitleM PGC. Use the Trace to follow the navigation.

In PowerDVD, try also to call the Title menu while your main movie is playing.


To go to the root menu from one of the two root menus, you can also use the GoUp key, but you have to program it:

Create a new PGC in the main menu of side 1, with a JumpSS to the VTSM Title menu. Then, double click on the main menu PGC of side 1 (the one with the main buttons Play Movie, Chapters, Extras etc...) and set the GoUpPGCN link to the PGC number you have just created. (Take care: often, the main menu is repeated twice. In this case, you have to change the GoUpPGCN link in both PGCs.)

Do the same thing for the menu of side 2.

Now, you should be able to use the GoUp (aka Return) key to jump back to the Title menu.

[Kayaker]

Yes, the title menu is there. And labeled like that.

And it has two buttons.

What else can be Power DVD checking ?

At home I'll try that stuff of go up.

Thanks a LOT.

[Kayaker]

The strage thing is that even removing all PUO I can't go to the title menu from the little menu of Power DVD.

Anyway, I edited the two menus (originally in side 1 and side 2, now two VTS) and added a button to jump to the title menu and it works fine.

I don't know what can be checking power DVD that it greys out the Title Menu option to jump directly.

[r0lZ]

Have you tried to call the Title menu during playback of a Title (not a menu!)? It should work.

Another reason could be that the "Access Restricted" flag is set on the cell that is currently playing. When this flag is set, you cannot use the remote, except (perhaps) to select a menu button. Verify the cell flags in the PGC Editor's cell list. (Access Restricted is value 32 of the second byte.)

Anyway, PowerDVD is not a good tool to verify a DVD. Try Media Player Classic or IfoEdit's preview.

[Kayaker]

I guess I've tried call the menu title when playing as you told me few post above.
But really I'm not totally 100% sure now, I've tried so many things :)

Not really a problem, just trying to learn why it's blocked.
I was suspecting that maybe there was some register that acted like PUO, but some debugging tell me not. And I guess that there is no relation between registers and PUO. Right ?

I didn't know that about flags in the cells. I'll check this also.

Also I didn't know ( What do I actually know ??? :) ) that Media Player Classic has DVD play capabilities.
I mean ifo parsing, with command executing, menus, etc, etc.
I always used it for avis/mkv and ocassionally a vob, but never tried to drop an ifo or an entire dvd on it.
I'll check it.

[r0lZ]

And I guess that there is no relation between registers and PUO. Right ?Right!

[Kayaker]

This is strange.

I've tried Media Player Classic and it also greys out the option navigate to title menu, as soon as I reach the menu of side 1 or side 2 or in any of the two main PGC's.
(It's strill active when I'm in my created new title menu)

I've rechecked all PUO setting and they are all cleared.

Well, I suppose I missing something pretty simple here.

I forgot to bring here a txt dump of the dvd layout, I'll bring it as soon as I can maybe you guys can see what I can't....

[r0lZ]

Well, I suppose I missing something pretty simple here.Me too! :(

I forgot to bring here a txt dump of the dvd layout, I'll bring it as soon as I can maybe you guys can see what I can't....If you want, send me also your IFOs, with VIDEO_TS.VOB and, if possible, the original menu VOBs. (If they are too large, shrink them with MenuShrink.)
-> pgcedit at tiscali dot be

[Kayaker]

OK.
I'll do more testing in the weekend, and if I can't get anywhere, I'll bring the stuff here at work Monday.

Thanks.

[Kayaker]

I found it.

I knew it was pretty simple stupid stuff I was overlooking. Dumb me !

I can't navigate to the title menu, because the PUOs were in the VOB, not in the IFO.

And I was clearing the PUOs in PGCEdit.

Am I wrong or PUOs inside VOB can't be removed/edit/see in PGCEdit ?
Or is it I just can't find the option ?

I know I can remove PUOs in VOBs with

1- DVD decrypter in the first place.
2- VobBlanker
3- Derrow's VobEdit, editing each NAVpack and editing/clearing the PUOs ... not a very practical solution at all :)

[blutach]

The PUO plugin can do it.

Plugins - Prohibted User OPs - Clear all VOB PUOs

Regards

[Kayaker]

OK. Thanks.

I'm becoming a little less ignorant every day :)

[Kayaker]

Now that I have managed to join the flipper the easy way ( one VTS for each side) I'm trying to do a a better work, and learning in the process of course, that seems to be the final objective because the DVD in question has already bored me :)

I'm trying now to join it in only one VTS and joining the menus.
The menues are simple, just plain Prev / Next and chapter selection.
I can dexmux and edit the mpeg and add the buttons, but I can't seem to find a way inside PGCEdit to import a LU in VTSM1 from a LU in VTSM2 (so as to join the menues for editing afterwards ).
I can clone and create dummy inside the same VTSM but cant copy from VTSM2 to VTSM1.

What I'm missing ?

[r0lZ]

That's currently impossible. To do that, PgcEdit should join the VOB files together, renumbering the VOB IDs, and fix a lot of tables. It's almost the job of an authoring program, not of an IFO editor.
IMO, you should import the menu of side 2 as an independent menu, and jump to the right part via the VMGM.

[blutach]

Yesd, import the second menu and make up a little menu in perhaps a 3rd VTS which is effectively your menu for selecting which disk you wish to go to. This is how DVD Remake Pro (http://www.dimadsoft.com/dvdremakepro/index.php) does it.

Regards

[Kayaker]

Lemme see If I get you right.
Maybe I don't know the complexity of what I'm trying to acomplish.
I already did a VMG menu that let me select side 1 and side 2.Now I'm for a better/ more complex thing.

Thinking about it, it seems simple (of course I'm clueless)

But is joinin the menues so complicated ?

Here is the current DVD layout.

VMG , First-Play PGC
VMGM , LU 1 (en) , 1 (0:00) 2b. TitleM (Programs: 1, Cells: 1)

VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 1 (dummy) RootM
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 2 (dummy) AudioM
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 3 (dummy) ChapterM
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 4 (0:00) 3b. (Programs: 1, Cells: 1)
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 5 (0:00) 4b. (Programs: 1, Cells: 1)
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 6 (0:02) 31b. (Programs: 4, Cells: 4)
VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (1:09) Title 1 (Chapters: 18, Programs: 18, Cells: 18)

VTSM 2 , LU 1 (en) , 1 (dummy) RootM
VTSM 2 , LU 1 (en) , 2 (dummy) AudioM
VTSM 2 , LU 1 (en) , 3 (dummy) ChapterM
VTSM 2 , LU 1 (en) , 4 (0:00) 3b. (Programs: 1, Cells: 1)
VTSM 2 , LU 1 (en) , 5 (0:00) 4b. (Programs: 1, Cells: 1)
VTSM 2 , LU 1 (en) , 6 (0:01) 24b. (Programs: 3, Cells: 3)
VTST 2 , 1 TTN 1 (1:07) Title 2 (Chapters: 15, Programs: 15, Cells: 15)


Each VTS is of course each side.

the 31 buttons and 24 buttons are the importanat menues of each side which I'm trying to join.

I'm trying to bring the two menues together.

You are telling me that is better to export each menu bmp ( 4 cells side 1 , 3 cells side 2 ) to an authoring program (demuxing , etc ) and do the authoring there and then importing again ?
The problem is I'll lose the commands (they are simple anyway)

there's no way to bring togheter (maybe in another VTSM3, it doesn't matter) the two menues ?
Then of course I can fix the jumps.

Sorry but my head is hard as a rock, you'll need a bit of patience with me :)

[blutach]

It's not worth joining them IMHO. You'd only have to reprogram the "old VTS2" menu (which would now be part of VTSM 1) to point to PGCs in VMGM to get to the VTS 2 movie (which is in VTS2 and will remain there, I presume).

Whereas now, it can access the VTST 2 titles directly with commands (cos it is in the same VTS). Blame VM command syntax, which don't allow direct referencing outside a VTS, except via VMGM.

Since you effectly have authored your "title menu" in VMG, this is good and there is no need to do it in VTS 3, as I earlier sugested.

So, just my preference, but I'd import the VTST 2 title via PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) and do the same with the menu and then tidy up any commands you might have in VMGM.

Regards

[Kayaker]

It's a good trick to use the VMGM as an intermediary jump to go to another VTS ( It never ocurred to me to reach VTS2 that way with that "trick" )

The only way I could join the two menus together in the same menu PGC was editing the first menu ( before it was side 1 menu) PGC , adding 3 blank cells with PGCEdit.
Then with VobBlanker replace those 3 blank cells with the extracted 3 cells from menu side 2 (also with VobBlanker )
That way I joined the two menues together. fixing jumps inside it was no problem except for how to reach VTS2 fmo there, but that you have solved for me with that "passing thru" VMGM trick.

Am I overcomplicating it too much or the only way of joining the two menues in the same menu PGM is adding as many blank cells as there are missing and the exporting and replacingthe side 2 cells into those new blanked ones with VobBlanker ?

[blutach]

Yes, you are overcomplicating, just IMHO, of course. There's just no need as I see it.

And it's no trick to use VMGM, that's the way a commercial DVD is authored.

Regards

[Kayaker]

ok.
By the way, don't worry stating that is your humble opinion, I won't be offended as sure you know better than I do.
you can also say that I'm a dumbass, no worrys :)

back to the problem at hand.

The menues are side 1 : 4 PGC with prev (except the first one on course ), next (except the last one , but I will edit this one so as to point to the firs PGC of the side 2 menu ) and a list of chapter to select.

And side 2 the same. I also will edit the fist one, adding a prev button and a jump to the old last of the side 1 menu.

My original thoughts were so that I can jump between the two menues I have to join them in the same VTS.

Remmeber the objective is that I have to jump from the last one from Menu 1 to the first one of menu 2 (and the other way around).

You are saying that I should leave them alone where they are in the firs place and in the new buttons that I will add (that will join prev/next ) jump thru a dummy PGC in VMGM ?

hey, now that I wrote it it sounds pretty easy and logical ... :)

[blutach]

Yep - let's look at the button you are authoring in VTS 1 to go to the menu in VTS 2.

The button command can be: (JumpSS) Jump to VMGM PGC ##

In the VMGM PGC, your command would be: (JumpSS) Jump to VTSM 2, Root menu (TTN 1)

And presto, your button to go to Menu 2 has been authored.

From menu 2 to go back to menu 1 is the same but the VMGM PGC would Jump SS to VTSM 1, Root menu. I think you follow.

Good luck :)

Regards

[Kayaker]

OK. I get it.

but the problem is the jumps I can make from VMGM to another VTS, in this case VTS2 are very limited.
It seems I can jump only to chapter/subpicture/audio/chapter/etc menues.
No any PGCN I want. Let alone a particular cell.

So I'll have to clear the root menu of VTSM2 (which I won't use anymore) and put a jump to the PGC I want.
And the root menu of VTS2 will be fake, so I'll have to set PUOs to no jump here.

I think it's more elegant do the stuff of inserting new cells and replacing them with vobblanker.

Don't worry I'll try every possible way.
I got the original problem resolved just trying different ways.

[voo_doo99]

The only way I could join the two menus together in the same menu PGC was editing the first menu ( before it was side 1 menu) PGC , adding 3 blank cells with PGCEdit.
Then with VobBlanker replace those 3 blank cells with the extracted 3 cells from menu side 2 (also with VobBlanker )
That way I joined the two menues together. fixing jumps inside it was no problem except for how to reach VTS2 fmo there, but that you have solved for me with that "passing thru" VMGM trick.

This approach is interesting, I'd really like to see you following up on it. Here is what I think:

I assumed you were talking about joining the Chapter menus together using VobBlanker. So after that done, you will need:

- a Next button in Ch menu side 1 cell to the next cell of Ch menu side 2; and of course a Back button to go back.

- the Ch # commands of side 1 will go to VTST 1, TTN # no problem, but the Ch # of side 2 will need to be rerouted to VTST 2, TTN # in some way.

Except you already knew that cannot be done directly. As far as I know you have to jump to a VMGM PGC and from there jump to a VTSM 2 Menu or a Title.

If jumping to a VTSM 2 Menu, you will need some branching to reach the wanted VTST 2, TTN #
If jumping to a Title, you need to convert all 15 Ch of side 2 into 15 Titles

That is as much as I can figure, any comments? is there another path?

[Kayaker]

It's really a pity that one cannot jump from VMGM to any PGC of any VTS.

This obligation of passing thru a title/chapter menu is a problem ( for us that are reauthoring in mysterious ways U2 would say :) ).

Actually in my case, the cleanest thing to do ( as far as I've tested is joining all things as if it were just one side)

As all I've got are simples menues and loosely related clips in each cell, I think the sanest thing to do is move all menu cells to VTSM1 and all VTS2 cells at the end of VTS1.
And the only way I know to do that is add a blank cell with PGCEdit and then replacing it with VobBlanker.
That way I'll end with just one VTS. but this is for this simple case.

But if we have more complex menues and navigation it'll be better to keep each thing in differents VTSM1 and VTSM2 and VTS1 and VTS2 (one for each side).

Of course the jumping thru VMGM issue is a problem.

[Kayaker]

the Ch # commands of side 1 will go to VTST 1, TTN # no problem, but the Ch # of side 2 will need to be rerouted to VTST 2, TTN # in some way.


If you leave the menues in two differents VTSM (one for each side) as Bluetach suggested you just have to reroute thru VMGM two jumps (the ones than link the menues together )

[voo_doo99]

If you leave the menues in two differents VTSM (one for each side) as Bluetach suggested you just have to reroute thru VMGM two jumps (the ones than link the menues together )
Yes, I knew this setup from this guide (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96211). Essentially, you add commands in the VMGM Title Menu to jump to each VTSM Root Menu.

I am just interested to know how to make it work with the combined Chapter Menu that you talked about ;)

[Kayaker]

Well, I finally made what's right (for this particular easy case) and it ended up well.
No passing thru VMGM. No dummys PGC and jumping around.

Don't get me wrong Bluetach, in this case it can be done this way because it's a very simple DVD.
In more complicated cases won't be so easy.

It ended almost as perfect as if the flipper were authored as one side in the first place :)

This is the final layout.

DVD-TEXT General Name: ""
Provider ID: ""
Number of VTS: 1

VMG , First-Play PGC

VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 1 (dummy) RootM
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 2 (dummy) AudioM
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 3 (dummy) ChapterM
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 4 (0:01) 3b. (Programs: 1, Cells: 1)
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 5 (0:01) 4b. (Programs: 1, Cells: 1)
VTSM 1 , LU 1 (en) , 6 (0:07) 57b. (Programs: 7, Cells: 7)
VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (1:49:29) Title 1 (Chapters: 33, Programs: 33, Cells: 33)



The only "annoying" thing was adding 15 blank cells with PGCEdit to the VTST1.
The replacing with VobBlanker is easy and fast because if you select 15 cells and the do the replace it asks for one vob after another and everything is fast.

R0lZ, What do you think about enhancing the add new blank cell stuff to add more than one at a time ?
And also probably in this "one shot operation" that the VID remains the same and the CID is autoincremental ?
Not sure if that is useful, but I ended with 15 new VID all with CID = 1. Meanwhile the original 15 cells have same VID and incremental CID. I guess it doesn't matter because all have differents Chapter # anyway.

What do you think ?

[r0lZ]

Well, adding several cells at once is possible and relatively easy for me. Basically, only the GUI is missing. Maybe I'll do it...

Modifying the V/CIDs to create only one new VID with several CIDs is not so simple. The elapsed times must be contiguous within the same VOB ID. Therefore, each time a new CID is created, I have to modify the VOB cell to include it in the same VOB ID. It's possible, but I have to modify the code slightly.
Since the Create New Cell is mainly used to create a single cell, I'm not sure I will do it.

[blutach]

Great to see you got it working Kayaker.

I'd second your suggestion about being able to add more than 1 blank cell at a time. I've often hoped this would be introduced.

Regards

[Kayaker]

Actually Bluetach, the important thing is all that I've learn along the road.
I already hate this DVD I'm playing around for such a long time.
I don't think I will ever see it again :)

The only thing is missing is get the two added buttons to work as the originals (with highlighted image), don't have a clue about that.
Don't even know where is stored the highlighted buttong image or mask.
Gotta research the subject.

r0lZ, of course do what you think it's easier and what you think would be more useful.
That idea of keeping same VID and autoincrement the CID was just a thought.

[Kayaker]

I just saw the sticky about menu editing.
The highlights are in the subpic stream. Dumb me !
Never mind.