Ripping a copy

[VWRacer]

In the interest of not having to go into my archives to retrieve the originals, I decided to rip my backups to my laptop so I could watch them on my trip next month. Fat chance! Am I just spitting into the wind, or is there a way? I've tried Shrink, Decrypter, FabDecrypter, VobBlanker, and AnyDVD. They all seem to crc error out around 90%. What say you? (I have a feeling I'm hosed on this one).

Racer :( :(

[neuron2]

It's pretty clear that you need to get the originals from your archives.

[blutach]

Sounds like a media quality issue vwracer. Try cleaning the DVDs or the laser on your drive.

Is not DVD Fab Decrypter skipping over your bad sectors?

What's the MID code of the copies?

Regards

[setarip_old]

1) A CRC error regarding an already decrypted DVD would only indicate a dirty or physically damaged disc.

1) Try cleaning the DVDs

2) Since they're not encrypted, try simply dragging and dropping to your hard drive, using Windows Explorer

[VWRacer]

It seems I won't be able to be lazy on this one. Time to get into the Archives.

All the media is pristine. All are burned on Taiyo's. Both NEC units are clean on the optics. All the backups play fine on the set-top box. All firmware, and programs are up to date. Oh well....nice chatting with everyone.

Racer

[setarip_old]

Have you tried my second suggestion - dragging and dropping to your hard drive, using Windows Explorer ?

[VWRacer]

I did indeed! It started to drag the ts_video folder, for a few seconds, and the nefarious CRC error popped up! RATS! It was worth a try. I'll get the originals out in the morning. Thanks all,

Racer

[neuron2]

Maybe your drive is bad. Try it on a different computer.

[VWRacer]

Thanks neuron, but both drives will rip originals perfectly. I do have another system in for a mobo upgrade, and I will test them in the morning, on his Plextor. This is the nice thing of having the originals to work from.

Racer

[blutach]

Very strange behaviour from TYs, unless somehow they have been damaged.

Regards

[VWRacer]

It's amazing what a nights sleep can do to solve a problem. The backups I was trying to rip to the HDD, are the Star Wars series, which means I would have ripped, and burned them, at the same time.

I can't verify this, but best guess is, I burned them at too high a speed. Normally, I burn at 6 to 8x. In the past, ripping at max (16x) creates pixilation at about the same point. This would read as a crc error if trying to rip a copy.

Racer

[setarip_old]

Both NEC units are clean on the optics. All the backups play fine on the set-top box.I'm curious to know if you've now played these copies on the two "NEC units"?

Also, are these internal or external units? Are both/either in or connected to your laptop? Burners or DVD-ROMs?

[VWRacer]

I was able to play the first two backup episodes on the PC, using PowerDVD. I would hit about the 90-95% point, and get glitches.

Both the NEC DVD RW drives are internal. (3520, and 3450 models) As we know, standalone players are a lot more forgiving than the burners.

I am going to try a 6x burn, and a max burn on episode one, and see if the problem presents itself. If not, it is possible, I got a few bad TY media. Never have before, but there is always a first time. I'll keep you posted.

Racer

[setarip_old]

I would hit about the 90-95% point, and get s glitches.Then you aren't able to successfully play them completely on your PC. I'd suggest you consider your first set of copies to be UNsuccessful - and re-burn them at a much lower rate...

[VWRacer]

If I knew how to post it for review, I would add my Nero CD DVD Speed analysis. Long story short, I believe I had a batch of bad TY's. I have found other backups, from the same time frame, that exhibit the same problems. The strange thing, they all play just fine in my standalone player.

Racer

[blutach]

@VWRacer

After you run a test in CD Speed, go File --> Save Results

The prog also has a little save icon added in the top right. You can save the pic as a PNG

Regards

[VWRacer]

How do I post the results, and may I?

Racer

[blutach]

You can post the pic via imageshack or text results.

And, I see no breach of the rules in posting a PI/PIF scan of a backed up disk.

Regards

[VWRacer]

I could post the scans from Nero Speed, or simply give you the results. Over 2 days, I have scanned all the DVDs that are in question. I noticed a strange thing, and maybe someone can explain it for me.

The disc, The Phantom Menace. Scan one, PI errors, 5229, PI failures, 466. 4 rescans later, PI errors drop from 5229 to 980, while PI failures drop from 466, to 28.

When I got to the fourth scan, I scanned, and ripped an ISO with Shrink, and it worked.

Is there something more to CD DVD Speed, than I knew about?

Racer

[setarip_old]

As I've read elsewhere, this software allows you to scan at different speeds. Were all scans done at the same speed?

[VWRacer]

All scans were done at 8X. Media was YUDEN000 T02, scanning from an NEC 3520.

Racer

[setarip_old]

Others with specific knowledge of this software may have different ideas but, logic would seem to indicate that either your NEC 3520 or the software is inconsistent... (If it's the software, that would render it useless)

[VWRacer]

Hopefully, someone with more knowledge than the 2 of us can fill in the blanks. This process has allowed 5, of the 6 DVDs to be ripped.

Racer

[setarip_old]

Maybe the multiple testings of each DVD cleaned them ;>}

[VWRacer]

Apparently, I can't post 2 images at the same time, so I'll just make 2 seperate posts.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4263/necdvdrwnd3520aw30717june20060.th.png (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=necdvdrwnd3520aw30717june20060.png)

Sorry I had to edit, I got the images switched!
Racer

[VWRacer]

This is the final (fourth scan) of the same disc.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/985/necdvdrwnd3520aw30718june20061.th.png (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=necdvdrwnd3520aw30718june20061.png)

I still can't figure out the reason for the diminishing problems and the quality score.

Racer

[setarip_old]

I was being only semi-facetious when I said, maybe the multiple testings of each DVD cleaned them ;>}

[VWRacer]

this seems to be the only way I can get the first image to come up.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4263/necdvdrwnd3520aw30717june20060.png

Sorry,
Racer

[VWRacer]

In the interest of eliminating one more posssibility, I have a new burner(NEC 3550A) due in Thursday. Re-rips, and testing will run rampant! Now if I can just find a program that will read both raw, and, pressed DVDs for problems. DVD Speed doesn't support this on other than burned media. At least I can't get it to do this.

Racer

[VWRacer]

May I post a link to a relevant article on CDFreaks?

Racer

[blutach]

Why not?

Regards

[VWRacer]

Thanks blutach. I just didn't want to violate a forum rule. When in doubt, ask.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=163379

This helps clear up a lot of questions on burning and media, testing. At least I thought so.

Racer

[setarip_old]

@VWRacer

From what I read in that thread, it seems that the only meaningful testing is actually playing the burned DVD...

[VWRacer]

So it would seem.....................but I have to believe someone, somewhere has a way to test.

Racer

[setarip_old]

if I remember correctly (from past research), this type of testing is actually intended for media manufacturers - using expensive, well-calibrated testing equipment...

[VWRacer]

You are probably correct setarip. I haven't found anything on a consumer level. A lot of programs claim to analize our media, but I'm beginning to think it's all window dressing. Hopefully, this thread will cast some knowledge on the waters for the membership.

Racer

[setarip_old]

Here's a somewhat releveant thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=843344#post843344post843344

[VWRacer]

This is beginning to get annoying. We seem to be at the mercy of the spin doctors. We are told there are programs, Nero for instance, that claim to analyze our media. Then we find out it really doesn't. I truly wish I were a better programmer, and engineer. Then I could attack this problem from a different tangent.

I found out I erred in my burner designation. It should be NEC 3500, and 3520. For whatever reason DVD Speed says the 3500 doesn't support the tests. I shall have to wait for the arrival of my 3550 to run comparison tests to see if there are descrepancies between readablilty. Arrrgh!

Racer

I wonder if there is a way to analyze a ripped image for comparison, before burning?

[setarip_old]

I wonder if there is a way to analyze a ripped image for comparison, before burning?If it's not yet burned to a disc, what would you analyze?

[VWRacer]

Basically to see if there are any abberations in the image.

I guess I'm loking for a way to improve the finished backup.

Racer

[setarip_old]

Basically to see if there are any abberations in the image.You've lost me (Not that it takes much to do so ;>}) - Compared to what?

[VWRacer]

Sorry, I got lost myself. If re ripping the same source DVD multiple times, both using one burner, and alternates, might show variations in the image file. In this instance, as a source for diagnosing a possible reading error in the burner. Hell, now I'm really lost.

This is the Engineer in me coming out. Start with the basics, and work your way up.

Racer

[setarip_old]

If re ripping the same source DVD multiple times, both using one burner, and alternates, might show variations in the image file. In this instance, as a source for diagnosing a possible reading error in the burner.Better you than me ;>}

There are all sorts of file comparison programs out there.

Happy Hunting!

[VWRacer]

The new drive came yesterday, and now the testing begins! Let's see if anyone has an answer for this: Removed the 3500 that wouldn't support DVD Speed, and installed the 3550. Now both the 3520, and the 3550 will do disc quality on a pressed DVD. It would seem the old, hardly ever used burner, was creating some sort of problem.

Racer

[krishnan.1000]

Hi,

If the DVD is RipGuard/ArcoSS protected, then how do you encode the Vobs to avi file XVID Compression after processing them through Vob Blanker? I tried GK and there is an A/V sync problem

[drs9079]

Hi
racer i what you want to do is verify that the same info burned to the disc is the same as what is on the hard drive wont nero do that by clicking on verify data when you go to burn i no its a pain the butt and takes longer, but then again i like to burn at 4x slow and steady.

[VWRacer]

A good Monday morning to all. Three days of testing, and a lot of DVDs burned, and I'm ready for some evaluations.

The tests were run using an NEC ND 3520, and an ND 3550. Standard firmware, DVD Shrink, and Nero DVD Speed, set at 8X. All media was Taiyo Yuden 8X from a fresh spindle. The source DVD was Star Wars III.

In simple terms, it is a crap shoot! I was able to scan the pressed DVD, and it failed miserably. Image quality was rated at 0 , with over 1200 PI errors. Ripped 4 image files with each of the burners, with no apparent discrepencies. Burned, at 6x, 4 copies of one image file from each source burner, on each burner. The 3520 burns showed an average of 92 image quality, with the 3550 averaging 72.

I ran one burn on each of the units at Max. The 3550 dropped to 29 image quality, while the 3520 finished at 98. Impressive. The majority of the errors and flaws appeared at the end of the tests, for whatever reasons.

I was able to rerip each of the burned copies with no problems.

The original post concerning great difficulty reripping would now seem to be either bad media, or the conflict created with the ND3500 connected. The same burned discs that exhibited the problem, still have the problem.

As previously stated, this is a crap shoot. The variations in test statitistics would indicate, use the best media, don't be in a big hurry, and pray to the Powers that be, and your successes will be more consistant.

Racer

BTW krishnan, I don't quite understand your post in this thread.

Edited for spelling.