Pls help me to deal with blocky scenes in VDub due to Interlaced source

[hawk123]

I have tried to compile 6 Hours DVD into a single DVDR.

Here is what I have done:
1) Rip the dvds into Harddisk.
2) Demux the movies into its elementary files (.m2v, ac3, .sup ) using PGCDemux.
3) Load the .m2v files into Virtualdub MPEG2 (latest version) and then frameserve it to TMPGEnc Plus.
4) In TMPGEnc Plus, I made some modifications to the standard DVD-NTSC (16:9) template that come with the program since I would like to keep the movie in 29.97kps, the following is the modifications I have done to the template:
a) MPEG Settings tab - Bitrate: 2195 kbps
- Motion search precision: Highest Quality (Very slow)
b) Quantize matrix tab - using the matrix provided in the KVCD Official Specification (http://www.kvcd.net/portal/articles.php?lng=en&pg=20) for KVCD and KDVD.
5) Then, encoded. It tooks me about 3 ~ 4 hours for encoding a 50 min movie.

The output is however dissatisfied at some scenes. Examples are as follows:

Scene 1:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/hawk123456/Scene01.jpg
Scene 2:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/hawk123456/Scene02.jpg

As you can see, the scenes are blocky, especially when it come to a scene that has a mix of black and fire. What could be the problem?
Thanks to Phil at KVCD.net told me that they are due to an interlaced source and he suggested me to deal with these using Avisynth. But, I'm a newbie and have not any computer language and scripts basic. All these while I have been using virtualdub to create my projects. I would like to know is there any way in virtualdub can deal with this problem

Anyone know what is my problem please help me to solve it.

TQ in advance.

[neuron2]

Greetings, hawk123! Good to see you here.

I would like to suggest dealing with these source DVDs one at a time. After all, trying to compress 6 DVD's into 1 is bound to result in blocky results. Let me ask you some questions and make some points and see how we get on.

1. Why are you frame serving out of VirtualDub MPEG2? The reason I ask is that this program will discard soft telecining and replace it with hard telecining if you take its default settings (honor RFF flags). That will substantially increase the bit budget you need. You need to analyze your source and determine whether you should do IVTC to get progressive frames, and then use soft pulldown to get back to 29.97fps.

2. Are you encoding as interlaced in TMPGEnc? That is necessary if you want to feed it interlaced material, such as hard pulled-down 3:2, as you may be getting from frame serving out of VirtualDub MPEG2.

3. Your bitrate is ridiculously low for encoding 6 DVDs into one. That alone will cause blockiness.

Am I just confused, or do you really think you can combine 6 DVDs into one without blockiness?

[setarip_old]

Hi!Load the .m2v files into Virtualdub MPEG2 (latest version) and then frameserve it to TMPGEnc Plus.Further to one of the questions raised by "neuron2", why do you have to use VirtualDubMPEG2 at all? You can load your .M2V file directly into TMPGEncPLus, can't you?

Also, are you talking about 6 DVDs of 1 hour each, or a DVD of 6 hours named "Hours", or yet something else?

[hawk123]

Greetings. Glad to see you here and thanks you for your fast response.

Here is my answer to you. Hopefully, it helps to clear your confusion.


1. Why are you frame serving out of VirtualDub MPEG2? The reason I ask is that this program will discard soft telecining and replace it with hard telecining if you take its default settings (honor RFF flags). That will substantially increase the bit budget you need.

The first reason is I'm a newbie and this is the only way I know.
Second, I would like to add a logo on movie using your logo filter on some scenes.

Phil from KVCDNet has suggested me to has the source into DGIndex and then encode in the TMPGEnc Plus w/o go to Virtualdub. I have tried it and the result is the same. Here is the link (http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16665) of my post in KVCD Net. FYI, I have tried all the 3 methods he suggested, except explore into Avisynth.

2. Are you encoding as interlaced in TMPGEnc? That is necessary if you want to feed it interlaced material, such as hard pulled-down 3:2, as you may be getting from frame serving out of VirtualDub MPEG2.

Yes. I have tried Interlaced and Non-interlaced. The pictures I posted here is from the interlaced output.


3. Your bitrate is ridiculously low for encoding 6 DVDs into one. That will cause blockiness.
Yes, I know if you are talking about a normal DVD bitrate.
The bitrate I got here is from VCDHelp.com's calculator (http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm). P/S: the actual length of the movie I put is 255 mins.


Am I just confused, or do you really think you can combine 6 DVDs into one without blockiness?

It's not 6 DVDs into one DVDR. It's actually 17 DVDs.
What I would like to do is to compile it to maybe 6 to 8 DVDRs. So, it's actually 4 to 6 Hours of DVD movie per DVDR. I think it could be done as it's stated in the KVCD net. The guys over there have compiled "The Matrix Trilogy" (wide screen) with a DVD quality into one single DVDR using Avisynth and KDVD template encoded in TMPGEnc. I aslo have some DVD9 that has 13 hours movie on it with good quality. (They are Half-D1 format with resoultion 352x480). For me, the most trick part is to write a working Avisynth script for this.


You can load your .M2V file directly into TMPGEncPLus, can't you?
Tried it. The result is same.

[setarip_old]

Originally Posted by setarip_old
You can load your .M2V file directly into TMPGEncPLus, can't you?

Tried it. The result is same.If the result is the same, then it's obvious that the problem has nothing to do with VirtualDubMPEG2, and is arising during the use of TMPGEncPlus.

Instead of the procedure you've used, I'd suggest you try the following:

1) Use "TMPGEnc" (or "TMPGEncPlus") to convert the .AVI
(DivX-compressed or otherwise) to compliant MPEG2-for-DVD format - Use "TMPGEnc's" DVD wizard/template to accomplish this (which is set to a default of 7,000Kbps for video - don't change it)

2) Use "TMPGEnc DVD Author" v.1.6 (a different program than
"TMPGEnc") to easily create the required additional DVD files and structure (and chapters and a menu, if you wish)
You can obtain a FULLY functional free 30 day trial version of this commercial program at:

http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/download/tda16.html

**If the combined filesize of the DVD "package" written to your hard drive is greater than 4.37Gb, use DVD Shrink (or similar) to compress

If your O/S is either Win2000 or WinXP, TMPGEnc DVD Author can also burn your DVD. Otherwise, use NERO to burn in "DVD-Video" mode
(As an alternative to "TMPGEnc DVD Author", you could use
"DVDLab")

[neuron2]

The scene you show is an explosion, which is really a torture scene as far as blockiness is concerned. I don't think 2195kbps is enough to render such a scene without blocking.

[hawk123]

The scene you show is an explosion, which is really a torture scene as far as blockiness is concerned. I don't think 2195kbps is enough to render such a scene without blocking.

Yape, I agree. But, the scenes above is just too much blocking.

I have tried another method. I used the original DVD files and compiled it in the DVDRemake Pro according to the length I wanted ( 255 min same as above case ) and export it and the output DVD is about 7.8 GB.

Then, I imported the output DVD into DVD-Rebuild to shrink it to get a Final DVD5 size. I then demux the same scenes above in the Final DVD5 into its .m2v in order to compare the results. DVD-Rebuild did a much better job. It has much less blocky compared to my first method. Guess what, the average bitrate shown in Virtualdub Mpeg2 is even lower, it's only 2107 kbps. But, this could be due to DVD-Rebuild might use VBR to do the encoding. The following is two scenes I save from Final DVD through virtualdub:

Scene 1:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/hawk123456/Scene04.jpg

Scene 2:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/hawk123456/Scene05.jpg


What is the downside of this method is that I can't add a logo in the movie.
Perhaps I can try to imitate and amend the .avs file resulted from DVD-Rebuild to add a logo.
I guess maybe you can helps me to amend the file and add a logo filter in .avs file and come out with a working .avs, could you?

Anyway, thank you for your help.


If the result is the same, then it's obvious that the problem has nothing to do with VirtualDubMPEG2, and is arising during the use of TMPGEncPlus........

Thank you for your suggestion.
However, I really have not idea how this can work out to meet my requirement.
Please explains to me by putting a step by step as I'm a newbie?

TQ

[Chainmax]

I'd suggest you to try the AVAMAT7 matrix and use some smoothing (like FFT3DFilter with a sigma of 3). Also, at those bitrates you probably shouldn't be encoding interlaced (are you sure the source is interlaced and not telecined?) anyway. You might also consider lowering the resolution to 352*480/576 which according to VideoHelp is DVD compliant as well.

[hawk123]

The problem I'm facing can be solved easily by writing a simple Avisynth script and encoded it in CCE.

The following is the script I used:-

LoadPlugin("D:\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source("I:\Try.d2v")
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
AudioDub(BlankClip())


TQ for all the helps and replies.
Thus, the topic is closed.