Which PUO should I remove and when should I do it?

[ux-3]

Ok, again a rather specific question.

If I remove all restrictions, I could end up with problems with menues etc., right? How much should I remove? When should I remove them? When ripping or when using PGCedit? Will that alter the vob files or just the small files (which I back up independently)?

Is there a good article or a guide on what to remove? I am currently preparing the backup of season DVDs, with lots of menues and episodes. I will do it on DL, so I will not likely blank anything. Since I do it on DL, I don't want to use trial and error...

Thanks for links or advice.

Why does a search for "puo" come up empty ???

Greetings,
ux-3

[blutach]

In menus, I leave PUOps at 192 in every PGC. This ensures that I can't use the Next/Prev to move from program to program but have to push a button.

To easily set this for a whole domain, use the PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) PUO plugin.

The search might come up empty as the search string might be too short - I am not aware of whether the board accepts 3 letters as a long enough search string.

Regards

[ux-3]

It would be very important to me to know, if a PUO change can alter the vob files. At least thats the impression I get from the settings in DVDdecrypter.

Greetings
ux-3

[blutach]

There are PUOps in the VOBs and in the IFOs. Any change you make to the IFOs does not affect the PUops in the VOBs. I never touch the PUops in the VOBs due to the "camera icon display" issue on angled DVDs.

Regards

[bigotti5]

Summary of UOPs and where they can be placed

User Operation Bit Title PGC VOBU
Time play or seach UOP0 √ √
PTT play or search UOP1 √ √
Title play UOP2 √
Stop UOP3 √ √
GoUp UOP4 √
Time or PTT search UOP5 √ √
TopPG or PrevPG search UOP6 √ √
NextPG search UOP7 √ √
Forward scan UOP8 √ √
Backward scan UOP9 √ √
Menu call Title UOP10 √ √
Menu call Root UOP11 √ √
Menu call Subpicture UOP12 √ √
Menu call Audio UOP13 √ √
Menu call Angle UOP14 √ √
Menu call PTT UOP15 √ √
Resume UOP16 √ √
Button select/activate UOP17 √
Still off UOP18 √ √
Pause on UOP19 √ √
Audio stream change UOP20 √ √
Subpic stream change UOP21 √ √
Angle change UOP22 √ √
Karaoke audio present. UOP23 √ √
mode change
Video presentation
mode change UOP24 √ √

Set UOPs at VOBU level alter the VOB at each nav-pack at byte 0x35h

[r0lZ]

When ripping, I prefer to clear the PUOs in the VOBs (because it is slow to remove them after), but I leave them in the IFOs. It is easy to modify the IFO PUOs with PgcEdit.

In the menu PGCs, it is better to leave some PUOs as they are, because they are often necessary to prohibit the use of a specific menu, of the nexp/prev chapter buttons. Usually, I don't remove the Top/Next and Prev PG search, and all the Menu Call PUOs.
However, in some circumstances, I remove the Next PG Search PUO on specific menu PGCs, because it makes possible to skip the menu intro with the remote. (It works fine when the menu is made of one intro and one and only one cell with buttons.)

In the title domain, I usually remove all PUOs. The angle icon problem is player dependant. I haven't this problem with the two players I use currently, therefore I can remove the Angle Change PUO without problem. Anyway, when I'll bought a new player, I will verify it doesn't display this stupid angle icon!


BTW, bigotti, are you sure the GoUp PUO is illegal in the VOBU, but can be specified in the PGCs? I though it's exactly the opposite!

[bigotti5]

BTW, bigotti, are you sure the GoUp PUO is illegal in the VOBU, but can be specified in the PGCs? I though it's exactly the opposite!

ups - a tab to little

[linx05]

In menus, I leave PUOps at 192 in every PGC. This ensures that I can't use the Next/Prev to move from program to program but have to push a button.

To easily set this for a whole domain, use the PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) PUO plugin.
Is this how you do it blutach?

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3377/puo5ul.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=puo5ul.jpg)

Will this allow me to fast forward copyright notices and allow me to change the subtitles/audio etc?

Btw this is a great thread. :thanks:

EDIT:
I would usually let AnyDVD do the work for me, but this seems to be a lot more flexible. If I can get it to work this way, then I will be doing it like this from now on.

[r0lZ]

The DVD -> Filter Prohibited User Operations function cannot be used to add a PUO. It can only removes the specific PUOs in the VMGM, VTSM or VTST domains, in the IFOs only. There is a similar function to remove specific PUOs in the VOBs in the PUO plugin.
With the plugin, you can also force specific PUOs for all PGCs of a specific domain.

My method is to rip with DVD Decrypter with the remove PUOs in VOBs enabled, and I remove most of the PUOs in the IFOs with the DVD -> Filter Prohibited User Operations function.

When I really have to use DVDFab Decrypter, I can't leave the PUOs in the IFOs. Therefore, I use the plugin to import the IFO PUOs back from the original DVD.

[bigotti5]

Will this allow me to fast forward copyright notices and allow me to change the subtitles/audio etc?


Yes..

[ux-3]

When I back up, I like to get an "easy to handle" disk that can be used to reconstruct the original. As long as I only mess with the small files, it will be easy to keep a separate backup uf them somewhere. Once I change the VOBs, thats it, isn't it?

I must admit that I understand only about half what is being mentioned here - glad that other people find it usefull.

So what exactly do the vob restrictions prevent me from doing?

I have read that removing too many restrictions will make a disk malfunction. What harm could happen if I allow a direct jump into the main menu, for instance?

greetings
ux-3

[r0lZ]

When all PUOs are set on a specific PGC, you can only watch the PGC at 1x speed. You cannot jump elsewhere, you cannot fast forward, you cannot change the audio, subpic or angle stream, etc...

Enabling all PUOs is not always harmless. Some examples:
- When a menu is authored with several cells in the same PGC (for example, for several languages), the Prev and Next PG PUO are used to prevent the user to jump from one language to another one.
- The PUOs are also useful in games, or the user will be able to cheat by jumping directly to the next "level" (or to any point in the game.)
- A menu (like the subpic or angle menu) can be used internally as the target for jump commands. But the menu is not necessarily made to support jumps via the remote. If you remove the menu call PUO, you will be able to jump to a non existent menu, and the result is usually unpredictable.
- The Angle change PUO is used to avoid the angle icon displayed on some players to inform the user that he can switch angles with the remote.

As I said, it is usually safe to remove all PUOs (except perhaps the angle PUO) in the title domains. In the menu domains, I recommend to leave them, though removing some of them (like the Title Play or Search) is usually harmless.

[bigotti5]

though removing some of them (like the Title Play or Search) is usually harmless

Note - all GPRMs are cleared when a title search or title play command is used and can result in confusing playback

[r0lZ]

Right! I forgot about that! Yet another possible malfunction due to a missing PUO. (However, this kind of malfunction is possible only if you call a title by number. Removing the PUO is harmless per se!)

[blutach]

@linx05 - as has been mentioned, I cal the PUO plugin. Just postion on any PGC in the domain and call the Plugins --> Prohibited User Ops --> Set PUOs in current domain to set PUOps for that domain.

Very useful for menus that have lots of PGCs.

Regards

[ux-3]

OK, now I have a somewhat specific problem. I am trying to speed up access to the main menu. I get that done. The main menu consists of two parts, both with buttons. The first part is a very long intro scene which offers menu functionality towards the end. The second part plays if the first part ends without a button being pushed. Ideally, I would like to be able to watch the intro OR push "skip" or "menu" to get to the second part, if I don't want to see the full intro. Unfortunately, I can't do that, since the skip, ff etc. buttons are not available. So I tried the vob puos removed, but that didn't do it either. If I also remove all PUOs in the ifo, I have controll, but thats a bit overdoing it.

Am I right in assuming that I _must_ remove the VOB puo anyway? And what else do I have to allow? Chosing PGC-enable all operations? That works, but perhaps it is overkill?

Different question relating to the same problem: How can I skip the first part of the menu automatically. If I try to kill it, I am asked to select an action. I wish to take none.

Thanks for any links or suggestions
ux-3

[blutach]

It depends on what the VOB PUO is. It would be harmless in the menu domain to remove them.

Just make PUOs 0 for that PGC and you should achieve what you want. I don't think that it's overkill. My method is to double click the PGC in PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) and enter 0 in the PUO box. OK and save.

To skip the first part of the menu automatically, blank the cell. In PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html)'s trace, have preview on. When that cell begins playing click on blank cell. Or you do this directly in VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm).

Regards

[ux-3]

Just make PUOs 0 for that PGC and you should achieve what you want. I don't think that it's overkill. My method is to double click the PGC in PgcEdit and enter 0 in the PUO box. OK and save.

Thanks, that really helped me a lot to figure out how I access the more specific codes. The odd thing is, I can set this to zero or allow NextPGsearch, but it won't work. (If I allow "Menu call-title", the menu button works)

I noticed that "Next PGCN link" is set to 0. If I hit PGC-enable all operations, it is set to 7 (the number of this PGC), and then the skip forward button works.
Since I don't have a clue, what else is changed by this "enable all operations", I wonder if it would be better to just make the following changes:

Allow Menu call title,
allow next PG search,
allow forward scan,
and setting nextPGCN link to the number of this menu (i.e. 7).

Greetings
ux-3

[blutach]

The NextPCGN number = itself is a little trick to press Next on the remote and bypass the playback of the PGC. If you do the same in Prev PGCN, then pressing previous will take you to the start of the PGC.

Allowing a menu call - title simply allows you to jump to the (defined) title menu when you press Title Menu on your remote.

Regards

[r0lZ]

I noticed that "Next PGCN link" is set to 0. If I hit PGC-enable all operations, it is set to 7 (the number of this PGC), and then the skip forward button works.
Since I don't have a clue, what else is changed by this "enable all operations"
Enable All Operations clears all PUOs, set the Prev and NextPGCN to point to itself (as well as the GoUpPGCN to Resume in the menu domains), and clears the Access Restricted flags of all cells.
Of course, the Prev/Next/GoUp PGCN links are modified only if the original value is 0.

Note that the Prev/Next PGCN trick is useful only when you are playing respectively the first or last program of the PGC. You should always be able to jump to the previous or next program (if the relevant PUOs are clear), but it is usually not possible to jump to the beginning of the first program, or to the end of the last program without this trick.

[ux-3]

I now have a new problem, which I don't really know to sort in: I just burned a disk with those changed puo restrictions. And it plays as expected in a DVD-Player. But it acts up in a DVD recorder. It won't start, which is probably because the drive in the recorder recognizes it to be a recordable (despite the book type). And here the problem starts. The first thing to show should be a language selection. But if I push play, I start an episode and if I push menu, I skip everything and land in the main menu, language is selected according to players settings.

What did I do wrong? How can I set the DVD to start normally? If that is not possible, how can I start the DVD as it is started by a normal player? Need I reinstate the menu puos?

Thanks for any help!

ux-3

[blutach]

If it plays OK in software players and regular DVD players, I'd say it is about as good as it's gunna get. I think you were right in supposing it is the fault of the recorder.

Regards