What is the most optimal processor for video encoding?

[junglemike]

Hello fellas. i'm not looking for newest pricy processors (which, of coruse are the fastest). I'm a student, so my budget is very limited. So i'm looking for the processor with best SPEED/PRICE factor considering video encoding ONLY (i don't play games).
Currently I have Cereron 1700mhz with sd-ram (133mhz) wich is very slow especially with h.264 encoding.
Also what RAM shoud i get (bus speed and brand.)
Thanks.

[foxyshadis]

Do you have an upper price limit? That's very important, P-D 930 isn't a great cpu but it's quite cheap right now. It'd probably make more sense to wait for Core 2 and build a cheap system off that instead. If you have more budget you can go with an X2, which outperform P-D, but probably won't surpass Core 2, especially with Intel glutting the market.

P4 and celeron are hardly worth considering, but if you're really strapped a budget A64 or Sempr0n could do nicely.

[Sharktooth]

if we talk of unreleased products, then a dual AMD K8L + 4x4...
http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=37&page=1

[foxyshadis]

That hardly counts as a budget processor, however... Opterons and Sparcs are definitely superior at the top and most scalable, but who can dedicate a 4x4 system to video encoding? >.>

[Sharktooth]

oh... 4x4 is for socket AM2 CPUs... athlons not opterons...

[junglemike]

P-D 930 isn't a great cpu but it's quite cheap right now.
IIRC Pentium D - is just 2 P4 cores, right?
But to utilize these 2 cores - my software has be know how to use multiple processors, right? I've started now experimenting with x.264 which does have option for encoding on many cores, but how about Virtualdubmod , Xvid, , Besweet that i use - will they know how how to use 2 cores? Or i have to put encode one movie on core A and second movie on core B?
- sorry, i have lot knowledge about Pii and Piii processors, but notheing about new processors.

[foxyshadis]

All the popular free video encoders and most of the commercial ones either have two-way capability or tools to run two instances at once. xvid, x264, nero, divx, hc, quenc, vc-1, etc. Audio not so much, but it's not that important with a good system either, it's so fast already.

[movmasty]

i think Sempron 64bit

[Drifterz]

I really like this site. It has a pretty intesive comparision of a large selection of cpu's with various benchmarks and real world tests. Including video test, such as encoding. Check it out. However your on your own for prices. I live in Canada so use tigerdirect.ca a lot.

Site:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html

[jimlim007]

When do encoding, i like pc system with Intel cpu especiaslly P4 Dual Core 9xx series or above (Conroe is the best) bcos:

1. More Cache Memory (4MB)
2. Future Software "for sure" will develope for dual core, just a time matter
3. 64bit is a must in today cpu choosen "dont forgot window vista" 2007
4. If still go for lower series cpu might facing some problem soon when every thing runing new, like window vista, following application support vista, but might cause your system which are low cpu not so effecient again with your work.
5. Video encoding need to run long time normally, I trust Intel cpu more stable than AMD especially here the weather like shit hot.
6. more and more application are "optimize" only for Intel cpu

*** But i saw a lot of site PrOOVEN that Intel D820 can hit 4Ghz and yet still damm stable, price are cheaper at all, pls refer AnandTech Site ***

Correct me if i m wrong, cos i m the one currently looking for upgrade system from :

AMD Duron ---> Intel D940 / 950 (Conroe too high price:( )
Sis Chipset 5598 ---> Intel Mainboard 945P chipset
133Mhz Sdram ---> Pc4200 Kingston / Corsair 512mb
64mb ddr Elsa Gforce4 mx440se ---> ATI X1600pro / Nvidia 7300gs (most headache , duno to choose:sly: )
Sony16x dvd rom ---> Pioneer dvd writer 111 series (only want pioneer)

[foxyshadis]

You can hit 4ghz on 8xx... with an enormous fan or liquid/peltier. You probably don't want an industrial grade fan buzzing away in your system all the time. (9xx overclocks are much saner, but you'd still better know what you're doing.) You can do a 1ghz OC stable on any of AMD's cpus the same way.

The vast majority of applications can't optimize for either cpu, office apps are all disk, memory, or network bound; games are usually gpu bound and those that are partly cpu bound don't show a major difference between intel and amd. The only good sse does anyone is right here in video processing. (There's a reason they're called "marketing instructions" by other industries.) Only some commercial apps use ICL to lock out AMD (DivX, I heard?) from sse paths, otherwise anything optimized for intel is also optimized for amd.

If you like intel because you prefer intel... fine. But price is intel's main (only?) advantage now, in a bizarre reversal of roles from 10 years ago.

[dragongodz]

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html
read multiple articles from other places and DO NOT waste time on toms hardware. he is extremely biased and it has been shown in the past his results dont always seem to match others results.

Conroe is the best
oooow i will just run down to the shop and buy one then will i ? oh i cant because it hasnt been released yet. so lets wait and see exactly how good it is and how expensive it is once its been released.
its also not going to be anything like a cpu for someone on a very limited budget as junglemike said he is.

as for price, well waiting for awhile seems a good idea to me. if someone is willing to wait a couple of months they should start finding AMD cpus cheaper aswll. according to this anyway
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800

so ye let the little price war start and you should be able to pick up a better cpu for the same price that you would pay doing it right now. thats no matter which brand you choose.

[foxyshadis]

You can buy engineering samples on ebay for the last couple months if money's burning a huge hole in your pocket. ;)

There's no sense in directing jim to AMD when he's repeated his antipathy toward the company several times, but that news is welcome to the rest of us.

[jimlim007]

You can buy engineering samples on ebay for the last couple months if money's burning a huge hole in your pocket. ;)

There's no sense in directing jim to AMD when he's repeated his antipathy toward the company several times, but that news is welcome to the rest of us.


Hallo, why u say me like this ah....Of course i din like P3 last time, cos very slow and expensive, that why i m using Duron budget cpu but have p3 same speed, but new Intel cpu seem improve a lot already, just wanna to try Intel only bcos I never use Intel cpu before.

Anyway, price war benefits consumer :D so wait JULY 2006 and force to lauching more power full cpu in future.

[Lenny_Nero]

People often get caught up in the CPU cycles thing without knowing that the AMD cycles are worth at least 1.4 of a Intel.I have built a PVR/encoding box for around £250 with an AMD semptron over clocked to 2010 MHz http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=80195 and it does wery well with XviD encoding.
For that price you can do as I have and run another box just for that.
H264 is very slow no matter what you use.

[dragongodz]

Anyway, price war benefits consumer
which is also what i already said. both AMD and Intel are dropping their prices for current cpus so waiting a little longer to pickup a better cpu for the same price, whichever brand, seems a good idea to me. especially for anyone on a budget.

[junglemike]

Thanks guys for options you gave me. I'm leaning towards lowest models from Pentium D series . But i'm waiting meanwhile, reading reviews, etc. Couple of questions, if you don't mind.

In addition to Celeron 1700mhz (w 512mb 133mhz sdram) that i have, I also have PIII-1000mhz (w/ 256 133mhz sdram) and PIII-750 (w/ 256 100mhz sdram) . I use all of them to encode x264. It's really slow, maximum 2fps with tiny resolutions.

Q1)Why PIII-1000mhz w/ 133mhz sd-ram is faster than Pentium 4 celeron 1700mhz w/ 133mhz sd-ram.

I'm not familiar with new processors, and I don't know how to relate those super high GHZ to actual cpu productivity. For example, regular old P4- are much slower than compared to PIII (mhz to mhz ) - which is clearly seen from my own example above.

Q2) Will some good new processor outperform all my 3 machines combined?? (1700mhz+1000mhz+750mhz) in FPS of encoding video terms?

Q3)How is memory speed related to encoding time? For example most P4 have ddr memory (266mhz and up) while my P4-1700mhz uses old 133mhz SD-ram. Let's say I now put my very clelron 1700 in new mobo w/ ddr400mhz - would I see ANY difference from 133mhz sdram?

[foxyshadis]

This is why P4 (netburst) was scrapped and P3 architecture used for P-M and Core. Celerons also have practically no cache and are usually cpus that failed intensive testing but passed at lower speeds with cache turned off.

Any core or A64 system will massively outperform your current systems; all three running in parallel might bring it up to the level of a 3200+ or T1300, but not any of the dual-cores.

DDR might give you a 20% boost at most, and that's under ideal circumstances, I'd expect 5-8% would be more realistic.

[Blue_MiSfit]

If you need to build a system for video encoding RIGHT NOW, and cant wait 1-2 months, then you should get the following:

socket 939 nForce4 motherboard
3200+ or 3500+ Athlon64 (Venice)
1GB DDR400
hard drives.. however much you need
DVD+/-Rw.. they're so cheap now it's not even funny..
Zalman CPU cooler

Make sure you have a decent motherboard that has been reviewed as handling increased HTT (fsb) well. super fast RAM is not necessary.

What you want to do is overclock the CPU, but use a divider to run the ram at less-than-stock settings. Most modern CPUs are NOT memory bandwidth limited. Look at the new Socket AM2, it has nearly 2x the peak memory bandwidth of current 939s when equipped with DDR2 800, but is not much faster at all as a result.

Anyway, I did that with a 3500+ and got up to FX-55 speeds - minus of course the extra cache. Nevertheless, I can typically encode 3-4 DVD-sourced TV shows in x264 with 5.1 HE-AAC into MKV overnight. I can typically do 1-2 movies in a night. I use both light and moderate flitering. I try to stay away from the heavy 2fps scripts.

For a bit more cash, get a 3800+ X2, and overclock it the same way. A decent PCI-e graphics card will let you run GPU filters, which seem to be an emerging trend among avisynth plugin developers.

If you can wait a couple months, Core 2 Duo is going to blow everyone away. Really. The benchmarks I have seen are devastating. It will be interesting to see what AMD has been working on after AM2. Now just isnt the best time to buy. I particularly dont like the idea of buying into a DDR1 platform when the industry is in the middle of full blown DDR2 transition.

That's my opionion...

~MiSfit

[dragongodz]

socket 939 nForce4 motherboard
socket AM2 motherboards are already hitting shelves so i personally think this would be a better way to go for future upgrading.
though really i cant see why someone couldnt wait a month or so unless their current pc is actually dead.

What you want to do is overclock the CPU, but use a divider to run the ram at less-than-stock settings.
if you are going to give this sort of advice to people without knowing their level of knowledge then please give a warning aswell. that is if you overclock watch for the temprature the cpu goes up to as you may need to buy a better cooling solution etc.

Look at the new Socket AM2, it has nearly 2x the peak memory bandwidth of current 939s when equipped with DDR2 800, but is not much faster at all as a result.
depends on the program. that is some things run 0% speed difference while others are 10% faster and i even remember seeing 1 program(cant remember which now) that was nearly 30% faster. most reviews i have seen have said to only expect an average of around 7-10% increase accross the board, meaning what i just said about some gaining nothing and others gaining noticably.

If you can wait a couple months, Core 2 Duo is going to blow everyone away. Really. The benchmarks I have seen are devastating.
depends which core2 you mean. while the 6600 and 6700 do look very impressive the 6300 and 6400 i have seen beaten by an x2 5000 and fx60 and fx62. again though this was program dependant. honestly though these are still not cpus i would be reccomending to someone on a tight budget, as said in the very first post.

It will be interesting to see what AMD has been working on after AM2.
well we already know about the energy efficient cpus coming that will use 65W and 35W.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20060516043032.html
and they havent moved to 65nm production yet.
http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=VCQM2KMTL4VXUQSNDBECKHSCJUMEKJVN?articleID=188700612
rumour, and i stress that word RUMOUR, has it that once that has happened they are expected the release cpus over 3ghz.

[Awatef]

@junglemike
Since you're interested in video, I would suggest a system that is "HD ready" ;)
Get something that will play 1080p videos correctly and you'll be just fine with anything video related (encoding included).

So, you'll have to buy at least 1GB RAM. Good brands are Infineon, Corsair & Kingston. The speed should correspond to the speed of the CPU, like if you wanna buy a P4 w/ 800MHz FSB, you'll have to buy DDR400 RAM modules.
1GB module Prices should be around 100€ (~80US$)

You'll also need a graphics card with at least 256MB.
For example, you could get the Nvidia GeForce 7300 GS w/ 256MB RAM for about 60€ (~50US$)

Now for the CPU. I would recommend the Athlon64 3500+. Doesn't cost much (about 110€/90US$) and still one of the fastest single core CPUs around.
Good dual core CPUs and P4's w/ HT & 800MHz FSB are too expensive for me to recommend you one.

[mod]

100€ (~80US$)
60€ (~50US$)
(about 110€/90US$)

Unless you're talking about US market prices, the change is:

100€ -> 125US$
60€ -> 75US$
110€ -> 138US$

;)

[Awatef]

Ah, sorry, you're right mod, I divised instead of multiplying, my bad, sorry!

[bkman]

Some new benchmarks from digit-life (I made the charts from their xls):

http://thehandofkwll.googlepages.com/xvid.png
http://thehandofkwll.googlepages.com/x264.png

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/cpu/intel-conroe-2-13-ghz.html