Some issues- CCE and bitrate distribution :)

[hirez80]

First off, I have to admit I bought this software after a few weeks of the FREE version. Its simply great, and will come in handy many times.. Support the guys doing their job right..

Anyway, I do have a slight problem. I mainly use dvd reb for anime dvd 9s. I use CCE sp 2,7 trial, and it works great as long as I do not try to steal from extras.
Example: I tried wolfs rain D4, and other discs where the bitrate "stolen from extras" seems to be added to the first episode (of 4) and the rest results in actual LOWER bitrate than NOT stealing.
So, without stealing, 4 eps = around 4.7 mb average (with bitrate viewer)
and WITH stealing I get FIRST ep = 7.6 mb, and the remaining eps, 3,9. In other words, stealing results in a GREAT first (sometimes last episode) but lowers middle.

One problem that was fixed, however, is that the stealing would result in bitrate jumping very high (stutter). but that does not seem to be a problem with the PRO version.

So my question is, if extras are not THAT important, is there a way to skip extras all together?
Sometimes, Extras are actually an episode, so in those cases, it would be good to still keep them, how is is then possible to make the bitrate distribute more evenly that MAX on one ep etc. as described above?

If I am allowed to give any constructive criticisim, I would LOVE this program to be a BIT more like dvdshrinkg, where you could fast forward the source, check whats on it, and select compression in percentage or something. so far, I feel that I cant trust using anything else, except NO stealing from extras at all..

Appreciate any info on this, and yes, I have read and read but didnt find anything relevant to my issue,, thanks for the long read!

Hirez

[GZZ]

Thats a problem in DVD-RB. I will not call it an Error. Steel space works like this. Normaly a movie got one PGC which i larger then the others (eks the main movie). So for DVD-RB this pgc must be main movie and the rest is Extra (Bonus material) on the DVD. But on Episode DVD where you got 3-4 Episodes on a Disc then you have 4 PGC with almost the same length, but one of them will be a second or more longer then the others (might be Episode 1, but could also be episode 2, 3 or 4). The others are then extra for DVD-RB and then it tries to steel space from them. So the longeste Episode get a far better bitrate then the rest. The solution so far is to set Steel space from extra to 0%. Then everything on the DVD will get the same Avg. bitrate.
The problem is if you have a DVD with 4 episodes and alot of extra that you don't want or want to encode at lower bitrate. Because DVD-RB can't know what is what on the DVD. The solution will be to do a prepare and then blank out the extra using the preview. I hope DVD-RB will be more flexible in the future and give the possibility to have a treeview with all VTS and PGC + audio/subs for each PGC and then you can disable/enable on PGC level. Maybe also choose witch bitrate menu will be encoded at. :D

[JohnGalt]

You can acomplish much of what you desire with the incredibly useful and versatile RB "add-on" RB-Opt (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=105&ttitle=*RB-Opt_0.21Beta) by Robot1. You should check it out. Just put RB in 3-click mode, run the prepare stage, then open RB-Opt and point it to your prepare directory. You can then modify bitrate on a per-VobID or per-cell level. You can also adjust the avisynth scripts, and all sorts of other good stuff. After you're done playing, save the changes you made in RB-Opt, then commence the Encode phase in RB.

[jdobbs]

Rule #1: Never, never use "Steal Space" on any series disc.

Thats a problem in DVD-RB.
There is no way for DVD-RB (or any other package for that matter) to know which PGCs are extras and which are the movie. So the VTS with the largest PGC is always assumed to be the main movie. If you have a group of episodes spread over VTSs, only the single episode that is largest will be considered the "main" one and space will be stolen from all others.

This isn't a shortcoming in DVD-RB -- it is a limitation resulting from the fact that there is no distinction in DVDs that can tell a package what is an "extra"... it has to try and "deduce" it from the information available.

[hirez80]

I thank you for the input, however, I think that there are many ways in which a program can TELL which are extras, or let the USER choose which level of bitrate should be applied for that matter.. I mean 4x 24 min, and REST is extras.
Anyway, I will check the other plug into, but I still think that something like dvdshrink has got the Layout and Usability down, and I cant see if it would be difficult to simply tell with a click, box or other indication what NOT to save bitrate on..

I usually used dvd shrink to RIP down the extras to still pictures, etc. and the options were great.

I am afraid that what could be gained by lowering bitrate from Extras is partly now lost, meaning that dvdshrink IN SOME CASES will have similiar results, at least faster. Again, I love this software, but i am trying to be constructive, and its a shame to click and rip in several stages to get the desired result (IE ripping with dvdshrink, leaving MAIN eps in tact etc. and then using DVD reb)

ANyway, I hope there will be easy way in the future, as I partly bought the pro version hoping you could do a bit more that select which audio streams to rip..

Keep up the good job though, and feel free to correct me :)

[JohnGalt]

...and its a shame to click and rip in several stages to get the desired result (IE ripping with dvdshrink, leaving MAIN eps in tact etc. and then using DVD reb)

jdobbs has mentioned that he is trying to integrate some of RB-Opt's functionality into RB, perhaps via the preview pane. I, for one, am certainly looking forward to such a development. Nevertheless, it really isn't that much extra work to use RB-Opt. Seriously, it takes like 2 minutes to adjust bitrates for all of your VTS's.

...dvdshrink IN SOME CASES will have similiar results, at least faster.

Well, I'll grant you that point as long as we recognize that "SOME CASES" realistically means a VERY LIMITED number of cases. I haven't used DVD-S for a year or so now, and I would only consider doing so if I were compressing my source by, say, 1-5%. An encoder is simply going to give you better results than a transcoder. If DVD-RB requires a little more work than does DVD-S, then so be it; the dramatic increase in output quality is worth a minimal increase in tweaking time, as far as I'm concerned. As to encoding time, who cares, up to a certain point? If a backup can be accomplished overnight, then I am satisfied. It's not as if I have any time limit for ripping discs that I own, after all.

A final note: if you're happy doing some editing in DVD-S, then go for it, remembering that jdobbs cannot respond to problems that arise when working with a preprocessed source. After all, you have to rip the disc with something, be it AnyDVD, DVD-Decrypter, DVDFab, etc. If you can do things with Shrink that you can't do with other programs (including RB), then you should certainly use it for the ripping & modification process. Just leave the encoding to the experts. :)

[jdobbs]

I thank you for the input, however, I think that there are many ways in which a program can TELL which are extras You very obviously know much more about DVD specifications than I do. Perhaps you should explain how this can be done. No simple explanations, please --- show how it will work every time and not end up with a few hundred exceptions...

Myself... I'm pretty sure it can't be done... and I also know that there is no package that has done it.

As for saying "select audio" is the only thing the Pro version can do... you need to look a lot closer. Maybe a few sessions with the segment editor... or maybe a peak at the options tab. Don't make statements like that until you do a little more than scratch the surface. There are literally hundreds of variations in the options, settings, and usages available of the Pro version.

[hirez80]

I am sorry if you took the "audio only" as an offense, I simply meant that WHEN clicking on the nice tree, all I can select OFF/ON was the audio, not any specifications for the actual video or other things. You got plenty of options which are probably way way more than i need, but for ME ( and PERHAPS only me, which still grants an discussion though) it would be great to open files, select with a few options, choice 2-3 titlesets which are HIGH priority and let the rest adjust etc.

I have JUST tried the rbopt plugin, and even though it seems to have potential, I have over 30 vob ids to check for my damn anime, and its simply takes longer than to throw it a round with DVD shrink. Then I still need to set custom Q for each of them? I guess I simply need the Simple version of all these software..

I have been using Ifoedit since the days, and did my own dvd9 splits years ago, yet there is always a learning curve. And some of these extra steps I perhaps dont know..
edit: ok I see rb opt can LINK ids, and then select bitrate for these, that saves time.. :) however not all ids can be linked, so still takes some tweaking....


EXCUSE ME! I just noticed that you can double click AFTER the first stage (in 3 click mode and BLANK/slideshow things!!! thats great!! I am terribly sorry I DID NOT see this in the free version, or perhaps missed it.. Duuhh.. now I feel stupid :) hehe learning curve..
I will perhaps play around a bit more, (i thought the 2 weeks was enough hehe).. but this helps me out a lot.. so i guess all iam asking for now, is a setting in the previev edit which says (LOW, Super LOW, slideshow etc. etc. these could be pre-determined in the settings or whatever.
and as i understand the software DOES in deed pick out whats extras, as it does not show the main movie parts in the preview edit?? or did i fudge up again ? :)

[hirez80]

well after extensive trial and error, I still get too high bitrate epsiodes on my dvds.

If i blank out anything, it automatically fills up part of the main movie to plus 15 mbit. Obviously, sttttuttter is emminent..

Is this normal? I only prepare, blank some trailers and move on.
I use CCE as normal, and when i dont do any stealing, or blanking everything is great.. please.. help me. i dunno what to do anymore..

[jdobbs]

It still should not go beyond the maximum bitrate -- but I'll check it out. But if you are getting bitrates that high I would guess you probably shouldn't need to be stealing bits.

[hirez80]

well, the original is about average 7-8 mbits (around 1 hour per dvd)

so my average is about 4-5 mbit checking with bitrate viewer.
So it does look great, and the program does a great job, however its always nice to give a little extra and skip trailers etc (which are the SAME on 4-5 discs actually, as its animation etc.)

Anyway, appreciate the help, and i am happy I got this program as its simply great quality :)

If you find anything, please tell me, perhaps i should add a flag for max bitrate? so that it doesnt go above XXX..? but i thought that was already built in??

Anyway, this has happened on several anime dvds, so far.. I duno if its a "special" structure or something that screws things up?

[jdobbs]

Maximum bitrates are built-in. The defaults setting follows these rules:

1. Max is set at 9000Kbs reduced by the bitrate of audio streams.
2. Max will not be allowed to go above the original bitrate.

The settings can be changed with "Hidden" INI parameters.

[hirez80]

hmm i thought so..
so basically anything else I can do to search for the error?

I am willing to try anything to solve this,
right now I am throwing dvds through DVD shrink,to cut out extras, but maybe thats not good?

[jdobbs]

If the maximums are exceeded it would be an error in the encoder. Could you post your REBUILDER.INI file?

[hirez80]

thanks, i hope its something simple..
i tried different settings , maybe i overwrote something..

[jdobbs]

I don't see anything glaringly wrong in the INI. What software is reporting the high bitrate numbers?

[feedback]

For checking with a different software, I suggest running it through DGIndex and see what it says...it will give you the bitrate at any given point when playing back and also the Average Bitrate of a VOB (in addition to many other features).

Regards,

[hirez80]

I checked on dvd player, skipps, tried cyberling powerdvd, dvd rom stutters (says 15-20 mbit)

And on top of that I tried dvdbitrate viewer, which scans the dvd, and its above 10 mbits.

so basically it doesnt work on any player etc. so i am not only reading the values, it simply doesnt work on NORMAL players.

[jdobbs]

Bitrates displayed on players are not the stored bitrates -- it is the playback bitrate... which can be 25% higher than the actual stored rate.

Maybe you should post your ECL file. I just have a hard time accepting that a high-end program like CCE would consistently allow bitrates to exceed the maximum value specified in the ECL.

Have you done in pre or post processing on the files?

[Boulder]

It's a known fact that CCE doesn't always respect the maximum bitrate. I don't know the reason why but I've seen it happen from time to time. I've been using a max bitrate of 8000-8500 to make sure it doesn't choke the picky standalone I've got.

[hirez80]

where would you limit CCE by itself for the max??

is it only to run CCE and check the settings?

I will now try an anime movie, as this should allow stealing and blanking without problems.. I have a feeling these EPisode animes is what throws off the process.. still checking into it..


where is the ecl file and whats the exakt filename?

[Boulder]

The maximum bitrate setting affects all encoders. It's a hidden option, you need to add the line max_bitrate=nnnn under [Options] in rebuilder.ini. You need to run the prepare phase again for it to take effect.

The ecl file is in your working folder.

[hirez80]

damn, now i blanked out, AND stole from extras = Double the problem..

It oversized the whole movie.. theres gotta be something wrong in my settings.. whenver you steal, blank it simply adds TOO much to the remaining part..

here is the ECL from the latest WORKING folder.
Thanks so much for the help, though, i appreciate it :)

EDIT: i checked the files in the working folder. ie. NOt the final result, but the D2VAVS folder, and the total size is about 3.6 gb plus the audio would seem right.. the total output was about 4,8 gb.

I will check if it helps to add the max_bitrate under options..

[jdobbs]

What are you using to blank the video?

[jdobbs]

It's a known fact that CCE doesn't always respect the maximum bitrate. I don't know the reason why but I've seen it happen from time to time. I've been using a max bitrate of 8000-8500 to make sure it doesn't choke the picky standalone I've got.Yeah, maybe. But to nowhere near the extent that is being reported here. He's saying he gets bitrates in the 14-15Mbs range.

[hirez80]

sorry i should be more clear, the Powerdvd stutters and basically goes above 15 mbit, but thats not accurate, as dvdbitrate viewer shows peaks above 10 but not nearly as high as powerdvd.

to blank the video, i simply prepare and then in the "preview edit" I blank out some trailers etc.

So i only use dvd rebuilder of ocurse.

I added the max bitrate, to see if that does a diff on the same movie.

[nivremous]

This is the reason why I gave up using DVD-Rebuilder. I have attempted to back up my anime titles and all of them showed stuttering issues both on my computer to my standalone DVD player. I blamed the media to my computer settings but unfortunately the stuttering still occurs even with the latest DVD-Rebuilder. If you search this forum you should see that stuttering occured on almost ALL the anime titles. If you do a search on stuttering - check the titles they are attempting to backup - one of them will be an anime title. Especially with the newer animes (I have tried Samurai Champloo and stuttering occurs on the action scenes because of very high bitrates - same with Ghost in the Shell - Standalone Complex)

I suggest that you save yourself time - use DVD Remake Pro.

DVD Remake Pro allows you to remove extras, angles, subtitles and even edit the menu buttons (both dynamic and static) - you can make the menu buttons unavailable or unclickable.

DVD Remake Pro is perfect for anime titles because almost all of them contain unwanted data like angles (alternative shot or storyboards), languages (Japanese language) and the extras (interviews with the creators and such). And because of DVD Remake Pro's feature to edit the menus you can fully control what can be seen and can be setup on your DVD.

You can remove all of these unwanted contents and you can shrink down the size of the anime to 4.7GB without even compressing it. Even if you have to compress it you would probably need to compress it between 5-10% which DVD-Shrink will be acceptable.

At the moment this is my current setup - DVD Remake Pro + DVD Shrink. I remove the setup (language options) and extras button (make them unclickable) therefore I remove the extras, subtitles and the angles. And I get the pure content without shrinking it. The highest shrink I do with DVD Shrink is between 5-10%.

Well - I gave you a suggestion. As you can see if anyone out there managed to backup a non-stuttering anime with DVD-RB - they should have given you THEIR working settings by now. I'm giving you mine now and it works perfectly with less waste of time (less than one hour backup procedure).

Save yourself the trouble. Or continue testing and keep on wasting 300 minutes of backing up.

Cheers.

I'm gonna get burned for this... just you watch this from here

[jdobbs]

I'll pick up an Anime title and do some testing... I can't imagine why an anime would be any different than any other DVD, though. I have a hard time understanding how the encoder could allow a bitrate to get that high. It has to be something else.

I'm gonna get burned for this... just you watch this from hereHey... to each his own. There's nothing wrong with DVD Shrink, it's a great package aimed at a different audience... I just personally can't stand the poor quality.

[hirez80]

hehe, thanks for the help.. :)
I totally understand your frustration, as I seem the only one in the world who has problems,.. but YES I think anime is the problem...
why, I dunno, its animation, it has different flags, transfers etc.etc.
I dunno the reason, but there is something in it.

However, i am double trying EVERYTHING; I have tried several titles and I hope I can come to a conclusion soon. I am not giving up yet, however, there is ONE thing I want to mention, ppl keep on mentioning that CCE and this and that, CANT be a problem, that you CANT imagine this or that being a problem.
We always have to be open to problems, and if other ppl have used software for anime please post your results..

I have tried, Loki, Ghost in the Shell (GIGA V2 for now gave me trouble) Wolfs Rain, and almost ALL the time I use STEAL from extras. I have not been able to back up anything WIHTOUT some sort of trouble. only when i dont blank or steal, i get a good encode.

[jdobbs]

Have you tried another encoder... say HC? I'll see if there is something peculiar about stealing space or blanking that could cause it... but looking at your ECL file it doesn't look like any of the bitrates sent to the encoder are out-of-whack.

[Boulder]

I think you should ask Mug Funky as to why anime is so troublesome. He's in the business so he might have some valuable clues.

[manono]

ALL the time I use STEAL from extras. I have not been able to back up anything WIHTOUT some sort of trouble. only when i dont blank or steal,

Since the anime titles you mentioned are all episodic, you shouldn't be stealing space from extras in the first place, as I understand it.

And on top of that I tried dvdbitrate viewer, which scans the dvd, and its above 10 mbits.

That's the one that reads the bitrate for the whole title with the DVD in the drive? It's OK for the total to go very slightly over 10 mbits. If PowerDVd really says 15-20 MB, then I don't believe those figures. You haven't proven (to me anyway) that it's excessive bitrate causing the problem. I'd be much more inclined to suspect media or burning problems.

and if other ppl have used software for anime please post your results..

I use CCE for anime all the time. Not through DVD-RB, though, as they usually need IVTC (R1). And I set my max bitrate to the max possible. No problems. The only time I might have a problem with max bitrate is if the average bitrate is high, 5000 or higher, maybe. In such cases I'll back off the max by 50 or so. So, my max bitrates in all cases are higher than what DVD-RB might give you. Among the ones you've mentioned, I've done both of the GITS movies, all of the first GITS-SAC series, and all of the GITS-SAC 2nd series that are out so far.

[nivremous]

I use CCE for anime all the time. Not through DVD-RB, though

You managed to backup Anime titles with CCE directly WITHOUT using DVD-RB and it worked? No stuttering?

That is interesting.

I am currently backing up GITS and I'm up to the second series now and I have R4 (Australia). I'm saving the best backup procedure for Full Metal Alchemist. I just love that series - I want to carry it around with me.

I might give your theory a go. We might find something.

Cheers.

[manono]

Hi-

You managed to backup Anime titles with CCE directly WITHOUT using DVD-RB and it worked? No stuttering?

Yeah, but for R1. Most anime TV series DVDs for R1 are encoded as hard telecined interlaced, or as a mix of hard and soft telecine, as mixed interlaced and progressive (wouldn't expect a PAL guy to understand that, necessarily), so I feel I can do a better job applying IVTC, and therefore I do them manually and outside of DVD-RB.

[hirez80]

I am JUST doing GITS Season 2 myself, and yes, perhaps I shouldnt steal from extras, but when I look in the preview etc. I actually ONLY see extras. I took it for granted that the preview/edit only shows extras..am I wrong??

I am doing a lot of anime, mainly R1, do I have to do IVTC? or can i trust to just use DVD rebuilder without any further settings?
This is really important to me, so please tell me if something is wrong with my method, or somethingn i can to better with Anime :)

Secondly, I did not even burn the dvds and it would stutter, and it does so in ALL players I tried.
BUT!! when I added a max_bitrate line 8000, it seems to size the disc better! I hope this is the solution, but need to try more..

[manono]

Hi-

I took it for granted that the preview/edit only shows extras..am I wrong??

I wouldn't know, sorry. Maybe someone else can answer that. But reading back over this thread, I did read that jdobbs reminded you that episode DVDs shouldn't steal from extras, because the longest episode winds up getting more bitrate than the other episodes.

...do I have to do IVTC?

No, you don't have to. After all, they're on the retail DVd as interlaced and hard telecined 29.97fps. It's perfectly "legal" and all. For encoder efficiency, when compressing to a DVD5, I much prefer to encode 23.976fps progressive whenever possible, as opposed to encoding 29.97fps interlaced. But DVD-RB will give it back to you as it is on the retail DVD, so it's perfectly OK.

Secondly, I did not even burn the dvds and it would stutter, and it does so in ALL players I tried.

Now that's interesting. Did you say that before, that it stutters when playing the DVD files on the hard drive on a software DVD player? I read that you had tested in the DVD-ROM after burning, but I don't think you've said anywhere before now that you've tested before burning. I could have misunderstood, though. And you don't mean you've tested a mounted ISO, do you, as they give me trouble sometimes as well. I mean playing the DVD files as a DVD using PowerDVD or some such. And what happens when you just play a vob of the reencoded DVD on the hard drive? Also stutters?

In any event, you've said that it works fine when you don't steal extras, so why not remove the junk you don't want, and then just go ahead and back it up with no stealing.

[jdobbs]

Just a thought... what is the audio bitrate on your DVD? Is it DTS, DD, or MPEG? Is GITS, R1, NTSC a good disc to use for testing?

The separation of "Extras" from "Main Feature" is done on a VTS basis. So if all the episodes
were in a single VTS it would be ok to steal space. But that isn't the case on many episodic DVDs.

[hirez80]

hmm thanks for the info concerning the progressive flag etc. I think I understand what you mean, you get more bitrate as you have less frames etc.? anyway, the program does a great job.. I dont even have to think about those settings, thanks god.
But even if i ONLY blank, without stealing it stutters.. it only work great if i ONLY load the movie and simply encode it.

About the audio, I have tried both DD, DD 5.1, but not that much DTS; as i feel its a waste honestly.. I cant hear difference with my crappy equipment hehe.. :)

About stealing from extras..
So I guess it does not add to the OVERALL good of the rest of the DVD if I rip something from extras.. but theoritcally, if i FILL the bitrate of one episode, should it not also move on to the next?
I just tried Gits, and ALL 4 episodes gave me about 4,5 mbit per ep, and 2,7 for extras. So this time it worked out great, it took al the extras and spent it rather ok.

I will try again, with stealing from extras AND blanking out a few hundred mb and see the distribution. BTW, with the max_bitrate set to 8000 i haven had any probs for 2 discs!! Perhaps I dare to up the max ? what value could i use considering I will have one and other DTS, 5.1 etc. perhaps..

edit: one more thing came up, hehe sorry for all the hassle, but you got me thinking.
If I Prepare, and it actually puts the main episodes in the extras (ie. it thinks that the episodes are extras)
its important NOT to steal from extras right? and if it correctly picks out the interviews etc. as extras, then i dont see harm in stealing from them, as they are still not desired, better to have 1 or 2 eps nicely encoded then...
or am I understanding this wrong?

[manono]

Is GITS, R1, NTSC a good disc to use for testing?

jdobbs, there are Ghost In The Shell and Ghost In The Shell 2 movies. He's having trouble with the spin-off TV series. There's Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex and Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex Second Gig. I think he's doing the first of those (GITS-SAC). I just checked Vol 4 of GITS-SAC, and each of the episodes is in its own VTS.

[hirez80]

oh damn, I should have known better than to power type with an anime expert in house :)

I did write " am JUST doing GITS Season 2 myself" and I just did the Second disc if you want to check that too hehe..

so, I am checking with Episode discs, as I Stated 4 eps had similiar bitrate even though I was in deed stealing :)

[manono]

Oh sorry, my mistake. I just checked GITS-SAC 2nd Gig Vol 2, and the episodes are contained in 4 different PGCs within the same VTS. So yes, you will get even quality for the episodes when stealing space. Did any of those stutter for you?

[dragongodz]

Have you tried another encoder... say HC?
HC and QuEnc come with DVD-RB so it would indeed be a good idea to test with these to see if problems occur such as mentioned. this may atleast help try and isolate if the problem is with DVD-RB or CCE.

[hirez80]

manono, ok so as its in the same VTS, its not problem.
but even if it was in different VTS, wouldnt it atleast improve the quality somewhat, as it should "fill up" an episode and move on to the next concerning bitrate??

It works so far pretty good, but i am forced to add the MAX_bitrate=8000.
edit: with this "limit" is it possible that there is a slight undersizing? i seem to get 2-300 mb less, which is pretty much as much I blanked from the extras.. maybe just coincidence..

I will try to encode with something else. but it think that the limit helped.. in some way

[Boulder]

I wouldn't say a maximum bitrate of 8000kbps is bad at all.

[Dashiell]

I was a victim of the stuttering problem myself. I tried RB with all of the encoders, and the ONLY one that caused the short sputtering issue was HC. The other encoders didn't have this issue, but the quality wasn't as sweet as I'd hoped. I'm using TY premium media, so I knew that wasn't the problem either.

I was about to launch a test of various different methods, lowering the max bitrate and changing the quantization scale, when I came upon a thread where JDobbs and several others were singing the praises of CCE. It cost me $58 for the basic encoder, and I must say I couldn't be happier.

Not only have the sputtering problems gone away completely, but the robust, almost candy-like quality of the colors you get when encoding with CCE have made a believer out of me. The fact that the first title I encoded (Ultraviolet) was as colorful as films get didn't hurt, either. I've encoded several since (many b&w films as well), and am truly impressed.

I think Hank is aware of what's causing the stuttering in the HC encoder, and he has claimed in an earlier post that it will be rectified with the next version. Personally, unless something earth shattering occurs, I'll be using CCE Basic with RB-Pro from now on.

[hirez80]

no, 8000 max is not bad, however i wanted to see whether filesize calcuation is perhaps effected with CCE.. as NO max bitrate caused some scenes to get "overloaded" with bitrate, I simply wonder whether a simple limit, might have the opposite effect (I dont think so though, I think the fact that all the episodes are labeled as extras, can cause some confusion when blanking out and redistributing).

[manono]

Hi-

but even if it was in different VTS, wouldnt it at least improve the quality somewhat

That GITS-SAC Vol 4 of the first season that I checked had the episodes in 4 different VTS's, and that's the kind where you shouldn't steal space from extras.

[hirez80]

ok, when you say should not, it means that one ep gets all the "extra" bitrate right? but its not like the other 3 eps get less than NOT stealing? a bit complicated question, but you know what i mean, stealing doesnt screw the other eps, it only takes from extras and gives to ONE eps for example.. which is sort of wasteful yes..

[manono]

In my previous example, the longest episode gets treated as the main movie, and gets all of the benefit from the stealing. The other 3 episodes (as well as any "real" extras) are all treated as extras and are crippled. Yes, the other 3 episodes get much lower bitrates than if you didn't steal from extras. Where do you think all those extra bits come from? In your first post in this thread you proved that very point:
So, without stealing, 4 eps = around 4.7 mb average (with bitrate viewer)
and WITH stealing I get FIRST ep = 7.6 mb, and the remaining eps, 3,9. In other words, stealing results in a GREAT first (sometimes last episode) but lowers middle.

[hirez80]

yes i simply wanted to confirm my friend.. its a lot of different movies i tried..

I just thought there might be a chance that if all the episodes were NOT present in the preview segment editor, it mean they were labeled as "feature" even though only the longest would get the extra bits from the "extras". so there would sort of be no harm to the other episodes simply not reciving stolen bits :)
Also, when i choose in the settings, to only show extras, the episodes do not often show up, so that further complicates things.
Neoranga D1, ended up labeling everyhing as EXTRAS, so thats the latest scenario which made me rethink and check..

edit: yes, confirmed again, when ALL the episodes get labeled as extras, the stealing AND blanking contributed to ONE ep getting high bitrate while the remaining eps, even got a slight decrease.

now, does it behave the same if the main footage is NOT labeled as extras? or does it simply have to be the longest feature to recieve more bits? :)