The new TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0 FORCES re-encoding of DVD-Compliant video clips!!!!

[zoinbergs]

Just thought I'd give ya'll a heads up on TMPGEnc's new DVD Authoring program -- version 2.0 (or 2.1.7.88 actually - is the version I purchased)..

No matter what video clips you import into this program, no matter how DVD-compliant they are.. it will automatically re-encode them using it's pathetic "smart rendering / transcoding" engine.. so if you want to use a program that won't touch your original mpegs, this is NOT the one for you!

I cannot believe I paid over $50 for this piece of crap software!

I have been looking into a solution for the last four hours.. and no matter what setting I choose, the output VOBs are WAY different in size and quality than the original mpegs! I mean.. this is ridiculous! Even their old version 1.6 (which I am now forced to revert back to) was capable of importing and exporting DVD-compliant mpegs WITHOUT even touching them! But this program forces it upon me!

Now I know what you're thinking out there you TMPGEnc DVD Author lovers... just import DVD-Video files directly from the source, right? WRONG! Even vobs themselves, when imported, FROM DVDs, are transcoded -- WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN NEED TO BE!!!!

Let's see.. I used to use Nero Vision 4 because they offered "SmartEncoding" technology that knew when, and when not to re-encode video files.. but of course Nero doesn't offer multiple tracks per DVD. So, I bought TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6, which was great for awhile -- don't get me wrong! But it never offered menu-navigation button information (ie: which buttons link to what).. So after downloading the trial version of their new 2.0 edition, and loving it at first, I bought it thinking it would be just as capable as thier older version. But I was dead wrong!

This new authoring program of their's has a VERY serious downfall in my opinion, and lacks a VERY important feature that I, as well as many others out there, absolutely require when authoring DVDs. Everybody knows that it's best to edit and transcode your video files using other, more specific-to-those-needs programs, and simply use a DVD-authoring program to compile and burn them with.... I mean, even TMPGEnc states on their website in their DVD Author 2.0 FAQ:

"This is a software aimed to author and rapidly create DVD-Video without re-encoding (compression) by using pre-encoded DVD-Video compliant mpeg-1/2 files.
You can easily and rapidly create a DVD-Video, cut edit and other by using a simple interface based on sense and image."

HAH! What a load of crap. They say no re-encoding is done, when my DVD takes over an hour to author, using DVD-compliant video files that were already recognized and burned successfully using Nero's "SmartEncoding" technology! I'm telling you guys, the sizes of my source and output files just keep not matching up, no matter what I do!


Anyways,

I just thought I'd warn everybody out there I possibly could to SAVE THEIR MONEY, and go somewhere else.. because

TMPGEnc DVD Author IS NO LONGER THE SOFTWARE YOU WANT TO USE! Unless of course they add the feature I'm talking about in version 3 or something.

I just think it's quite dissappointing that their OLDER software doesn't re-encode video files if it doesn't have to, yet their newer one REQUIRES that it be done.

Good luck finding a program as useful as TMPGEnc, my fellow DVD authors! I would pay someone good money at this point if they were to direct me to another program just as useful, with "SmartEncoding" technology, as I would call it. It's too bad TMPGEnc had to make such a bad business decision on their part..

Oh well.. Thanks for listening guys.. sorry I had to vent like so..

[zoinbergs]

And here's what I REALLY don't get...

I just took the DVD-Video files that TMPGEnc output, and I put them back into the program as new tracks in a new project.. and I burned them THINKING that the software would recognize that it had just re-encoded them.. and guess what?

It STILL re-encoded them! Even it's own freshly created DVD-Video files it decided it had to re-encode, AGAIN.

Is there no end to this madness! You have got to be kidding me that this software exists!

I wish I would have never noticed this problem in the first place.. I'd be sleeping like a baby right now!

Please don't think I'm some kind of crazy person for losing sleep over this either.. I just REALLY liked this program, and for all intents and purposes it should have lived up to its predecessor! It's just so much of a shock to me that I payed good $$$$ for what I thought to be a very wonderful product.. only to be extremely let down.

Whatever you all do.. please know what you are getting yourselves into before purchasing this program! That's all I ask for in the end.. I just want everbody to get educated on this program BEFORE potentially blowing money on it. I wish someone had told me what I'm telling you.. I'd be $50 richer right now.

[setarip_old]

Hi!

Please understand that I do not own the version of "TMPGEnc DVD Author" that has gotten your goat.

At the risk of upsetting you further, since I share your disbelief that this newer version of the program would INSIST on re-encoding DVD-compliant video, I would suggest you check any and all available settings in the program - to see if there isn't a setting that simply needs to be changed.

You might also read through the "Help" file (probably still available from the "Help" dropdown menu) to see if there's something you've overlooked.

If all else fails, send an email to the publishers at Pegasys (or Tsunami)...

I'm curious to understand why you didn't first download the free trial version?

**EDIT**I just took a look at the ad for this product at the new TMPGEnc/Pegasys website at:

www.tmpg-inc.com/en/index.html

and noticed this:Released in the fall of 2005, the TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0 program builds on the strengths of DVD Author and the company’s widely used, award-winning MPEG encoding technology. It is the first DVD creation program in its class to offer fit-to-disc transcoding and DVD+R dual/double layer support, making it possible to fit a 9GB or 10GB file onto a single 8.5GB DVD disc while maintaining its video quality.

[zoinbergs]

Oh you don't have to worry about upsetting me.. I'm just dissappointed, really.

I have actually looked at what I believe to be EVERY setting that TMPGEnc DVD Author has to offer.. and it pretty much comes down to the output settings section. One can reach this area by going to the settings of the one of the tracks (one of two buttons offered per track - the other one being "delete"), and looking down below the "Video Format" section, toward the "Output Settings" section. There you have the option of changing the aspect ratio of that particular track, the bitrate control mode, and finally the image quality.

After looking into their help file before posting, they state information on only TWO options given for their bitrate control: CBR, and VBR.

This is taken directly from their help file:


--------------------------------------------------

7. Bitrate control mode:

Sets the current track bitrate control mode used by the smart rendering engine.


CBR (Constant bitrate)

The bitrate is the same as the maximum bitrate, allowing a faster DVD folder building process. This option disables the transcoding engine because that operates in VBR mode only.


VBR (Constant quality)

The bitrate varies during the encoding to keep the same level of quality, allowing better compression but requiring more times.

--------------------------------------------------


Also, it states for the "Image Quality" setting:



--------------------------------------------------

Image Quality

Sets the quality of the video when re-encoded by the smart rendering or transcoding engine. Low values increase the compression efficiency but worsen the picture clarity, like a JPEG, 90 fits in most of the cases. This setting is available in VBR bitrate control mode only.

--------------------------------------------------




So, I figured that if VBR was enabling the transcoding engine.. that CBR would not, just like it says.

WELL, when I tried authoring in CBR mode.. the output file sizes were huge (a standard with CBR anything), which meant that some sort of transcoding was still being done. And after having a closer look at the output file created.. it showed the same changes made when the output was in VBR 100% mode!


Nowhere did it mention anything about NOT transcoding... it's almost like they integrated the feature, hoping that nobody would notice the lack of options otherwise! And I know for a fact that converting from VBR to CBR requires some sort of transcoding too.. it's a given! The file sizes just don't match up.. and the frames I keep comparing continue to show definite signs of alteration.

I've already attempted contacting their so called "customer support," with no luck back yet. Maybe they can point me to a setting I may have overlooked, but I highly doubt it. Not when the only options I have are CBR-encode and VBR-re-encode.

Either of those two options yields changes, that I just cannot accept as anything but re-encoding.

[zoinbergs]

That was actually one of the first features I noticed.. the ability to transcode to a smaller sized medium.

The entire time I've been using this software I had that feature off though. The output settings are in the "SOURCE" section of the program, and apply to the project regardless.


Now I did download the trial version.. and loved it so much I purchased the full one. My excitedness to finally find a better program to allow me the option of viewing menu-navigation-functions clouded my ability to view this problem, untill of course it was too late.. and that, pretty much, is a $50 mistake that I cannot take back. I know. I was stupid. But to put things back into perspective, I was 99% confident when I purchased their newer version of the same software, that it would include all the features of their older version. I mean, that's common sense, right? Why would they throw out such a feature when upgrading anyhow?

I really don't know at this point.. I just can't wrap my mind around it! Oh well.. That's life, right? I guess it's time to move on......

[setarip_old]

I guess it's time to move onI'd still suggest that if all else fails, send an email to the publishers at Pegasys (or Tsunami). Why just "throw away" your money, when there may be a solution?

[zoinbergs]

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!!

Well to start out.. let me tell you what I've tried since last night..

First, I found out that TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0 uses "Video Mastering Engines" or VME's, to do all the behind the scenes work.. and after looking into their "C:\Program Files\Pegasys Inc\TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0" folder itself, I found some *.VME files! One of them was called "MpvTransItc.VME" . . . which I thought could possibly be their Intercom MPEG-Transcoding Engine.. and I was right! For I renamed the file so the program wouldn't recognize it, and then re-opened the program.. only to find the option disabled in their settings, as well as under their output tab! So I pretty much disabled their transcoding engine.....

BUT, after authoring my DVD again, it turns out that this transcoding engine of theirs I disabled only applies when fitting a 10GB DVD onto a 8.5GB DVD.. and it still took over an hour for the program to automatically "re-encode" all my video files.




Well, as determined as I was to find a solution to this problem of mine.. I thought of another idea I'd try.. and that was to author the video files using their 1.6 versioned software.. since it didn't re-encode them (I know this based on CPU utilization during the authoring procedure, as well as output file size, AND the fact that it took less than 30 seconds per track)... and import the VOBs into their 2.0 versioned software. Now they warned me that these vobs cannot be read "as is" when I imported them, and that I should be using their DVD-Video importation feature.. but I decided to give it a shot anyway.. since I knew there was no chapter information it required via the BUP and IFO files.. For all intents and purposes these VOBs were simply MPEGS, although I chose not to rename them for safety reasons.

So.. you're wondering what the final outcome is, right?

IT WORKED!!!!! For some reason version 2.0 didn't re-encode them when I authored my DVD, as it took less than 30 seconds per track!

Weird, huh? I find it quite strange that it works like that..

Version 2.0 decides to re-encode the same video files Version 1.6 doesn't feel the need to.. and when you import "version 1.6-based" (as I call them) VOBs (that are the exact same as the original MPEGS -- the ones version 2.0 insisted on re-encoding).. it doesn't feel the need to re-encode them!

What a weird thing this Version 2.0 of their software is doing..

But I'm certainly pleased with the results! It no longer takes over an hour to author a DVD, menus and all.. it takes minutes! Unfortunately I have to take an extra step that I think is quite ridiculous.. but nevertheless, IT WORKED!


Hope everybody out there understands the breakthrough I believe I had made.. and will continue to use this software as I have decided to do!

I guess I didn't throw my money away after all.....

[zoinbergs]

After thinking about it.. I understand that it may be a little confusing to see the gravity of these results.. so let me try explaining it again, in more simple terms:


Regularly authoring a DVD via TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0:

Step 1: Import supposedly DVD-Video compliant MPEGs into TDA 2.0

Step 2: Author the DVD using TDA 2.0

Total Authoring Time for 22 minutes of video : 45 minutes

MAJOR DOWNSIDE: All video clips are re-encoded using TDA 2.0's "smart rendering / transcoding engine" which results in NOTICABLE QUALITY LOSS, and not to mention that it takes 45 minutes to author the darn thing!



Now! The alternative authoring method using both TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6 AND 2.0:

Step 1: Import DVD-Video compliant MPEGs into TDA 1.6

Step 2: Author the DVD using TDA 1.6

Step 3: Import the VOBs you just created in TDA 1.6 into TDA 2.0

Step 4: Author the DVD using TDA 2.0

Total Authoring Time for 22 minutes of video : 5 minutes!

MAJOR UPSIDE: You don't have to wait around 40 minutes for your DVD to build in TDA 2.0, only to find that they *touched* your already DVD-Video compliant MPEGs when you know they shouldn't have!



Unfortunately, this means you have to own TDA 1.6 for TDA 2.0 to work properly.. but it's definitely a breakthrough for authoring DVDs, since I can still use TDA 2.0 for all my authoring needs!


Hope somebody out there can use this information, and save themselves a rough night of sleep because they thought they just blew $50 on some piece of crap software.. that really turned out to be a fantastic DVD authoring program!


Have a good one guys.. I'm out.

[setarip_old]

Forgive me for saying this but, based on what you've described, it sounds like you'd be better off (and $50 richer) simply continuing your use of v.1.6...

[zoinbergs]

Oh I know! That's what I thought myself at first..

There are some seriously useful features that come in v2.0 though, that I just cannot live without at this point.. which is why I'm okay with taking some comments back about (not) furthur using it.

One of them is the ability to show what happens when you use a remote control for your DVD player.. it shows the menu navigation directions and what not. This I consider to be an invaluable feature that I needed SO badly in v1.6, because my buttons weren't lining up to the point where one couldn't access them via the remote once I burned the project!

For the most part.. I'm learning to live with the idea that any and every program out there has it's ups and downs, it's features and drawbacks.. and that one can only achieve true happiness when one utilizes each feature that each program offers, individually. No one program is gonna have it all... and if it does, you're bound to find some corner cuts because of it!

I wouldn't have gone to such great lengths to share this flaw of TDA 2.0 with the world, if I didn't believe it made such a big difference -- especially when this flaw is one of the main "features" offered in this particular version. I'm positive that I'm not the only one who values keeping their video clips *original* when importing them into DVD-authoring programs.. I find it disconcerting that this program offers something so basic of a concept, yet doesn't actually follow through with implementing it.

Maybe some revisions/updates/patches will come out in the near future that will guarentee the implementation and importation of DVD-Video compliant clips when authoring DVD projects.. and I'm willing to stick around to see what happens. I just wish they would state more clearly in their product descriptions, FAQs, etc. what really goes on when you import video clips into their programs.. because it pays to know that kind of information before hand, doesn't it!?

Thank you for your concerns, and for the fact that you were the only one else to post on this subject. I value your input, and hope that maybe you learned a little from me as well. =)

[setarip_old]

hope that maybe you learned a little from me as wellThere's always something new to be learned by all ;>}

Yet once again, I'd suggest it would be beneficial to email the author/publishers about your concerns...

[zoinbergs]

Oh I almost forgot to mention it!

The first thing I did was e-mail them actually.. and I got a reply this afternoon too! They pretty much confirmed what the product description itself stated though:




------------------------------------------------------

Our software does, if it considers necessary, re-encode video files during the process of DVD building. There are a number of factors that may contribute as to whether or not it will re-encode during the DVD folder building process.

- GOP (and any irregularities that need to be corrected)
- bitrate change
- any cut-edits
- audio re-encoding
- motion menu thumbnails and/or background motion menu used
- smart rendering image quality settings
- the original source file origin (and by this I don't just mean DVD, but the programs and/or devices used to capture, import, and/or create the MPEG files and DVD files as well. Not all DVD creation programs follow the official standards all the time).

The re-encoding will happen if the program deems it is necessary to conform to the official MPEG-2 standard specifications.

I hope this information helps.

Sincerely,

Paul Marsh
TMPG Technical Support

------------------------------------------------------



So after reading that, I e-mailed him back inquiring as to why their old software didn't seem to have to re-encode my video clips while authoring.. and that when exported by the old version, and imported into their new version, that the clips weren't re-encoded for some reason (even though they were the same exact clips that supposedly required re-encoding in the first place)...like how I had mentioned in a previous post...

Anyhow, I have yet to receive another reply.. but nevertheless his response to my original question was lightning fast and pretty darn accurate! So I have hope in this company yet.



I guess it was worth the mucho dinero I payed for it.. it certainly is more useful than the last version they released!

[Revgen]

You could at least request that they provide an update that allows "advanced users" to decide to disable the transcoding engine. Perhaps they'll update it.

[doucrix]

Ran into this same problem, thought it was my encoding but learned from your posts that it really is TMPGEnc DVD Author. The worst bug in history for me. Its exactly the kind of thing conspiracy theories are based on, it wouldn't make sense but they did it. I want to hit the ******** that forced the encoding on my files. A big **** to him (someone had the idea) and the company itself for allowing it. Ruined my whole month. Wasted my time. Hidden ******* Totally wrong.:devil:

zoinbergs, thx for providing the trick, but 1.6 still adds mb to my project just like version 2, this probably isn't anything to do with smart encoding but from the tests I've done dvd-lab adds the least amount to my original files like 54mb and TMPGEnc author 1.6 adds like 85mb and TMPGEnc author 2.x adds like 115mb to my project. Whats the deal with that, no one ever covers how much a dvd author program will add to your perfectly compliant mpeg-2 files... wtv this authoring business is really really not meant for everyday people. There are always these hidden file size issues. Can't stand these programs, all of them. TMPGEnc is my favorite because of the ease of use but is the most compromising in quality. They all are compromising. Its a death trap. I'd rather burn my MPEG-2's to disc-raw with my overscan adjustments and just play them with one of those new players that accepts raw data files. Who needs menus anyway, lame programs always stealing mb from me without telling me why or where its going.

[Mug Funky]

DVD muxing will add about 2% (at the most) to your final compile, as compared to the size of the elementary streams (your m2v and ac3's, subs, etc).

but if you take that 2% into account it can save a lot of hassle.

as for the reply from TMPGenc... it seemed a little strange they said video should be re-encoded to conform to the MPEG-2 specs, and not the DVD specs. that's very careful wording they've used there. it's certainly hard to believe a company that's selling authoring software would not have purchased the DVD specs, and just gone off the free mpeg-2 specs and assumed the limitations DVD implies.

im my rather crusty opinion an authoring program should not attempt any encoding - it should verify and accept/reject the streams given to it. certainly automatically re-encoding without any prompting is an awful way to do things. what constitutes a "compliant" stream is very much open for interpretation, and it's simply not kosher for a program that (probably) doesn't adhere to the DVD specs to make that decision for itself.

[edit]

- GOP (and any irregularities that need to be corrected)
- bitrate change
- any cut-edits
- audio re-encoding
- motion menu thumbnails and/or background motion menu used
- smart rendering image quality settings
- the original source file origin (and by this I don't just mean DVD, but the programs and/or devices used to capture, import, and/or create the MPEG files and DVD files as well. Not all DVD creation programs follow the official standards all the time).


1. only GOPs with problems need re-encoding. if every GOP is too long, stream should be rejected, or at the very least the user should be prompted (ie "would you like to re-encode this with compliant GOP structure")
2. only parts that go over the max bitrate should be re-encoded. if the feature pushes the project size over the DVD volume size, then the program should give a warning and the user should choose what to re-encode if anything.
3. cut-edits would only require a few frames to be re-encoded. not the whole feature. even premiere pro gets this right for frell's sake.
4. audio should never be re-encoded unless there's a damn good reason. even if the feature has been edited, frame-accurate audio cutting (without re-encoding) is a trivial matter.
5. that should be up to the user.
6. really smart rendering would include an option to not render at all...
7. this whole point is junk. an m2v is an m2v. all i can conclude is it's reading user data, in which case ReStream could be utilised to just put in the appropriate data without re-encoding. i would suggest trying this. and again, it's not up to a program that doesn't adhere to the DVD spec to decide if something adheres to the DVD spec!

[Guest]

@doucrix

Stop using profanity. It's against forum rules:

http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm

[puddy]

As usual I found this thread AFTER I posted mine here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123088

Why is this thread in the Advanced DVD Authoring forum and not in the regular DVD Authoring forum? Anyway...

As I document in my post, this software is a complete disappointment and frankly a joke.

Does anybody know if their "TMPGEnc DVD Author 3 with DivX Authoring Ver. 3.0.5.149" product forces reencoding like this? If not, this may be the solution.

Might be time to d/l the trial.

puddy

[puddy]

I've actually made some discoveries!! I'm still confirming, but it appears you just need to make sure the MPEG-2 encode has closed gop's. So far my tests have shown that no recompression is activated when the gops are closed. I've even tested editing within DVD Author 2 and also creating motion menus and still no recompression is triggered.

So far so good. These are preliminary results so I'll post back with more info soon.

Since I'm using HC Encoder to make my MPEG's all I did was make sure I put a check mark in the "closed gops" box. I was able to keep the "autogop" setting active and DVD Author 2 didn't mind.

A full DVD rendering even confirms that my source MPEG's were not recompressed as they were kept interlaced unlike earlier when they were being deinterlaced.

So, I think that might be it... seems very simple. To be honest, gops are supposed to be closed if you want to do editing. So, DVD Author 2 isn't totally wrong in this case, but it should warn you.

Can anybody else confirm my findings?

puddy

[puddy]

Ok, I'll confirm it myself. What I posted seems to hold true. Just make sure your MPEG files are encoded with closed gops (as well as following the other MPEG rules, but we all thought we already were) and DVD Author 2 won't try to reencode.

Does this help anybody out there? :)

puddy

[Guest]

Thank you, puddy, for this important finding. It is surely helpful to many.