DVDFab Decrypter and DVD-RB

[magic144]

Hi guys

just wanted to point something very weird I've just discovered

I had seen a couple of video glitches in 2 recent DVDs I reencoded with RB (movie-only mode)

I turns out DGDecode.dll (1.1.0 AND 1.4.5) is choking on a block error at the point of the glitch - BUT I've just found out that DGDecode.dll IS NOT at fault here

it's particularly weird because even though DGDecode.dll hiccups, playback of the ripped files on PowerDVD is fluid and fine - but obviously in compressing with RB, DGDecode.dll produces the visible glitch

HOWEVER - here's the interesting part - if I RE-RIP the same disc using DVD Decrypter (instead of DVDFab Decrypter which I have been using lately), the block error is completely gone and DGDecode.dll handles the same point in the video flawlessly

this leads me to believe there is some kind of error being introduced by DVDFab Decrypter and I am quite wary of using it now!

just something I thought you all should beware of and lookout for

m

[dirio49]

Nice thanks for the heads up.

Did you use the latest version?

Did the dvd have structual protection? if so how did you make you copy with dvdd? ( used the plugin?)

thanks

[magic144]

luckily, this DVD had no structural protection (Arcos, etc), so my comparison was based solely on a straight rip

I'm not 100% on how to deal with the structural protection using Decrypter, but it's my understanding that it can be done very easily (whilst still using vanilla DVD Decrypter) - but I don't want to turn this into a thread about that, that's for another day :-)

anyway, I'll see if I can get the author of DVDFab Decrypter to maybe find out what's going on - hopefully I can get him the video to test and get a fix

-Edit- actually I was using DVDFab Decrypter v2.9.7.6 and I've noticed there was a new release 2 days ago, so I'll try that first too...

m

[magic144]

ok, just to reconfirm
same block error shows up with 2.9.7.7

FYI, the disc is R1 of Fever Pitch (Fallon, Barrymore)
not a great film perhaps, but of technical importance to the community now!

the glitch point is in Chapter 15 at 0:52:35

[jdobbs]

Hmm... I've encoded that one -- but I'm not sure which decrypter I used (probably AnyDVD since that's what I use most of the time now).

[magic144]

yeah, I guess it's a crap-shoot :-)

I haven't tried AnyDVD yet - simply because it's a driver-level utility and I like the idea of Application-layer software first and foremost (without too much intrusive digging into the guts of Windows)
I've heard AnyDVD is the dog's "bits" when it comes to a replacement for DVD Decrypter

I guess it just goes to show you can't always rely on everything! well, except DVD Rebuilder, naturally!!

Maybe I've just been (un)lucky? in unearthing this problem - anyway, stay vigilant peeps - don't rest on your laurels!!!

[setarip_old]

You should be aware that DVDFab Decrypter (supposedly until the most recent release) purportedly AUTOMATICALLY replaced unreadable sectors (1 try only) with "dummy" sectors...

[magic144]

it's a very "hands-off" solution
one-click and no options, so you put a lot of faith in it

out of interest, what do you use setarip? (or indeed, what do most DVD Rebuilder veterans use these days)?

I'm a bit concerned about continuing to use DVD Decrypter, as I'm not sure what it will and won't pick up with regards to newer structure-level protection - I mean is it possible that you can go through a rip with it and not know something's gone wrong? - anyway, regardless, I'd like to know what the new-kid-on-the-block is these days

[jdobbs]

IMHO AnyDVD is by far the most elegant and effective solution. In fact -- you can even encode straight from the DVD if your drive is fast enough. The updates are constant... very impressive. It costs $39.00 -- but to me it's been worth every penny.

[magic144]

@jdobbs: thanks for the feedback

it's good to hear it "from the horse's mouth" - so to speak!

[therat]

IMHO AnyDVD is by far the most elegant and effective solution. In fact -- you can even encode straight from the DVD if your drive is fast enough. The updates are constant... very impressive. It costs $39.00 -- but to me it's been worth every penny.

One wonders how long it will be before it is forced to go the same way as dvd decrypter tho and close its doors :(

[setarip_old]

out of interest, what do you use setarip?Either DVD95Copy (my personal favorite) or DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 (for non-"ARccOS"-protected DVDs). If the DVD is "RipGuard"-protected, I sometimes use DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 in combination with VOBBlanker...

[l8nights]

pls2 file wizard has never failed me and I've never been forced to wait for an update to rip.

the thing with fabdecrypter was probably a slight imperfection on the disk as fab will ignore it, and move on.

there's my 2cents

[jdobbs]

If the problem stems from a bad read that got padded by DVD Fab -- then the output in the source directory is corrupt and it will have some sort of problem no matter what.

I think I may rerip that disc with all three decrypters (DVD Decryper, DVD-Fab, and AnyDVD) and see if there are differences in that cell.

[magic144]

@jdobbs,
I would very much like to know the outcome of your test!

I've written to fengtao about DVDFab Decrypter, but I don't know if he is able to reproduce the problem yet (if he even has the disc)

@l8nights - are you saying DVD Decrypter does some kind of error correction that DVDFab Decrypter does not? Would I not see some evidence of DVD Decrypter "repairing" such an error? I don't remember seeing any read error messages.

-Edit-
I re-ran the disc thru DVD Decrypter and there was no mention in the log about fixing up any read errors (or doing any retries)

[magic144]

oh yes,
I should have mentioned it was the Widescreen version I am testing (I never get fullscreen movies if I can help it!)

[magic144]

hmm, if I use DVDFab Decrypter to rip from the disc, the block error shows up in DGIndex

but if I use DVD Decrypter to first rip an .iso from the disc, then mount that .iso under daemon-tools and use DVDFab Decrypter on the virtual disc drive, I don't see the block error

does this tell anybody anything about what's going on with DVDFab Decrypter? - shouldn't the .iso image be practically the same as the disc itself (like a raw copy)?

[setarip_old]

Have you considered the possibility that DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 is a better ripper than is DVDFab Decrypter? (Meaning that DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 may have successfully interpreted a sector [or sectors] that DVDFab Decrypter initially deemed unreadable and then replaced with a dummy sector [or sectors])

[l8nights]

no, it wouldn't repair just retry or try "harder".
this could be due to many things read speed used by the app, I/O processes/interface,drive support I can't say one way or another but dvddecrypter most likely will not give up on getting a read without telling you.

twas just a suggestion nothing more :-)

[magic144]

hmm
and you'd think making a digital backup would be a flawless operation!

@jdobbs, did you retry your disc (was it the Widescreen R1 version)?
I suppose it is possible it is unique to my Hardware if DVDFab Decrypter is using the low-level driver interfaces in a way that causes this error somehow... on the other hand, if you get the same problem, it is presumably and easier application-level fix for DVDFab... (and we can all sleep at nights)

btw
does anybody know if DVD Decrypter's .iso ripping is affected at all by ArcCos/RipGuard etc, or is it only the file-mode ripping that is affected...?? I could rip everything .iso mode first using "old faithful" if that was an option

[l8nights]

iso mode will also crap out on newer "schemes" in either decrypt (I/O error) or during rebuild phase, I don't know about recent changes included in rb 1.09.3 for the later.

but iso mode for me, acts in much the same way as file mode with newer protection.

[magic144]

really?

I thought iso mode was supposed to work even on ArcCos/RipGuard because it wasn't trying to interpret the (deliberately) error-laden pointer data underneath...

oh well, back to the drawing board if that's the case... or at least AnyDVD or some psl2 solution - unless fingers-crossed DVDFab can provide a fix for this rare but visually annoying circumstance

[jdobbs]

@jdobbs, did you retry your disc (was it the Widescreen R1 version)?
I suppose it is possible it is unique to my Hardware if DVDFab Decrypter is using the low-level driver interfaces in a way that causes this error somehow... on the other hand, if you get the same problem, it is presumably and easier application-level fix for DVDFab... (and we can all sleep at nights)I haven't tried it yet. I got busy finalizing and sending out v1.09.3 yesterday... hopefully I can test it today some time.

iso mode will also crap out on newer "schemes" in either decrypt (I/O error) or during rebuild phase, I don't know about recent changes included in rb 1.09.3 for the later. Personally I haven't had any troubles with ISO mode at all. I'd be very surprised if anyone has problems with v1.09.3.

[magic144]

@jdobbs
yes - getting 1.09.3 in the email yesterday was a bonus!

are you saying then that DVD RB Pro v1.09.3 will work standalone on ArcCos/RipGuard protected discs if they are simply ripped with DVD Decrypter in ISO mode (and that obviously DVD Decrypter in ISO mode won't crap out on such discs)

without having to go through any of the rigmarole of using external tools such as VobBlanker, FixVTS, etc., etc.???

[jdobbs]

Well, I've never personally had to use any of those programs in any of the previous versions either. The only problems I've ever had with Decrypter is the "Read errors" it won't get around. So I have AnyDVD running under it.

The only error I've ever heard reported (but never really had a problem with myself - I had to force it) was "Error #0006" and that's gone now. Even that one was always caused by garbage sectors before and after "nulled" or "padded" sectors in cells (or portions of cells) that were unreferenced or never actually hit in playback.

[magic144]

oh
so you're saying DVD Decrypter will crap out with some read errors in ISO mode on protected discs (without using something like AnyDVD), and presumably this "crapping out" is not a recoverable situation - or at least, on its own, DVD Decrypter might not be able to produce a "usable" iso image?

[setarip_old]

@magic144

Click on the following link for clarification:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=816240#post816240

[magic144]

thanks again setarip :-)

[setarip_old]

thanks again setarip :-)It's always my pleasure to provide additional insight ;>}

[rudolfo2]

I have had some encounters with the gliches caused by Decrypter or DVDFab,so how do you found them first before going to burning process ??I'm using this method:Both ripping programs give's you VIDEO_TS file which I run with PowerDVD 6.0 Deluxe ( open DVD on HD menu ),run it at 32x speed and if there's a glich or any other problem the speed will drop down to playing speed.So if I can't preview VIDEO_TS at highest speed from start to the end than I don't burn,I start fixVTS or VobBlanker and try to repair it.

[magic144]

@rudolfo2
I'm talking about a glitch in the nitty-gritty fabric of the MPEG-2 video stream itself - not in anything that FixVTS or VobBlanker would be able to take care of to do with malformed DVD authoring / structure-protection-based non-compliance

there seems to be something wrong with a very special circumstance of data being ripped slightly differently by DVDFab vs. Decrypter - DVD Decrypter seems to be doing it correctly whereas FAB seems to have introduced this miniscule error which causes DGIndex/DGDecode.dll to hiccup

I doubt you'd even notice these video "block errors" most of the time, even at normal speed :-) I only happened to see it by pure chance when checking something else in an earlier video section

I've only ever seen such a video "block error" in 1 other disc (out of LOADS), and I'm going to try and run that through again to see if it is the same issue with DVDFab Decrypter or not

@jdobbs, did you get a chance to try Fever Pitch WS R1 thru DVDFab Decrypter at all (without using AnyDVD of course)... I've had no feedback from fengtao at all

m

[blutach]

I have no doubt you are correct magic144. DVD Decrypter is still the best going around IMO. Fab's tendancy to pop in dummy sectors has been a major drawback. However, it is improving and its handling of ARccOS is getting quite advanced.

For mine, DVD Decrypter plus plugin (if necessary). Never lets you down as l8nights says.

Regards

[magic144]

cheers for the feedback Les

it still seems odd to me that DVDFab Decrypter should fail like this on an unprotected disc - there is perhaps some problem in the low-level disc reading code that only crops up in a very obscure case

I may never know more if nobody else can reproduce it - I've still not heard back from fengtao - plus the issue may be peculiar to my hardware platform, you never know what the low level device-reading code is doing

all I do know is that the point of failure is 100% reproducible (on both my 4163B and 4167B LG DVD Super Multi drives), and that DVD Decrypter works without issue on the same disc/drives combinations

I tried out the psl2 plugin for PgcEdit over the last few days on a disc and it worked flawlessly - absolutely no trouble

I had tried a manual process using DVD Decrypter, as written by someone called JaguarGod, but there were 2 versions (Newbie and Advanced) with differences, a lot of steps without clear explanations for all the reasons - the result had some issues with DVD Shrink, but this freeware plugin is the business!

I'll keep AnyDVD in mind for future use as the final fallback option!

[magic144]

@anyone

if anybody has the time and the inclination to try out DVDFab Decrypter 2.9.7.7 (or 2.9.7.6) with the exact disc in question (without AnyDVD, etc running) to verify using DGIndex/DGDecode.dll if indeed you also see a "block error" reported by DGIndex by single-stepping through the frames at the timecode I have indicated, it would be good to have some kind of corroboration or disputation against my hardware/software

cheers