XVID or DIVX ? [Archive]

91638

12th April 2006, 10:52

Excuse my absolutely newbie question and maybe this question was answered a lot of times before but i never cared about XVID and DIVX but now i want to encode a tv capture into one of these formats and dont know what are the advantages and disadvantages of the codecs.
It would be really nice if someone could reply me, especially the compatibility with standalone players and the support for future codec developments are important for me.
Thanks a lot.

chongy5

12th April 2006, 11:03

Well, quality wise, you'll have to test it out for yourself - things like cartoons can look better on one codec versus the other. I don't know much about standalones, but most are rated for Divx playback, although that is MPEG4 so XVid has a chance of playing on a device like that.

Also, if you have the raw processor power, have you had a look into H264/AVC codecs?

JoaCHIP

12th April 2006, 11:45

The DivX company has an official brand that they encourage hardware vendors to put on their products. XviD is an open-source project, and does too little to promote themselves in my opinion.

Being an open (non-proprietary) format has a lot of advantages, and this is why XviD has become a more widely accepted format lately. Sticking with this will probably keep you out of trouble.

H.264 based formats are the next generation, but as of now, there are several formats competing, and most of them cost money to use without restrictions.

chongy5

12th April 2006, 14:27

Yah I think that's a good idea, just stick to Xvid for now. As for development, Xvid is still being developed on and being improved, as is Divx, so that really isn't too much of an issue - their not gonna die out tomorrow :)

siddharthagandhi

12th April 2006, 15:25

Nero 7 Ultra Edition doesnt cost much at all...get that and you can get the best AVC codec in existence-->Nero Digital/Ateme

ammck55

12th April 2006, 16:01

91638--Have you seen the Stand-alone MPEG-4 (DivX, XviD...) Player Buyers Guide Sticky (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=98228) from the Hardware Players Forum? It won't answer all of your questions, but it's a good read. You'll come away from it with some of your questions answered.

It's certainly easy enough to find a DivX/XviD compatible player, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that most of them are compatible; it's my experience that most players on the shelf are not, but as stated, they're certainly easy enough to find.

H.264 codecs are producing crisp, clean results at amazingly low filesizes, but the major drawback here is the lack of standalone support.

I got into MPEG-4 encoding last summer, running XviD's out of AGK, and while some of my more purist buddies here in the forum will probably choke when I say this, my main goals were to be able to put three movies on a single layer disc, have acceptable quality, and spend a minimum amount of time doing so. My secondary requirements were saving hdrive space and using up less media, but with both storage technologies dropping in price, this is less of a concern as we hurtle toward our encoding future. I also bought a cheap Philips standalone which did two things; it got me into the MPEG-4 game, and will allow me to upgrade later without feeling like I "wasted" my initial investment. Everyone's criteria will be different...

siddharthagandhi--Please be careful when you tout one of your favorite tools, anytime you call something the "best", it's an open invitation for controversy. Discussion is good, as long as it remains civil. The same could be said of your signature. It's really not fair to say that something "sucks" just because you're not getting good results. Maybe if you did further testing with these codecs and manipulated your settings you'd come up with better results. "Best" for you doesn't mean it's "best" for everyone.

ammck55

MrTroy

12th April 2006, 16:13

Well, quality wise, you'll have to test it out for yourself - things like cartoons can look better on one codec versus the other.I completely agree. For low bitrates (say, around 1500kbps) XviD tends to produce the clearest video, while at high bitrates (5000kbps+) DivX looks sharper. It completely depends on what you're encoding.

kwanbis

12th April 2006, 18:46

Nero 7 Ultra Edition doesnt cost much at all...get that and you can get the best AVC codec in existence-->Nero Digital/Ateme
i was also thinking of nero recode, wich looks great, only problems are:

1) does any free player/decoder exists?
2) can i use it to encode avi files? once i tried, and it only allowed to encode DVDs, and i have a lot of AVIs to convert.

Slitheen

12th April 2006, 19:01

H264 might be the latest thing, but I think you really need some overall encoding experience to know what you are doing with it and get good results.

If I was encoding something for commercial reasons, I'd use DIVX, just because it's so well set up.

siddharthagandhi

12th April 2006, 19:35

kwanbis

For decoder, quicktime and VLC works (i'm not 100 percent sure about that, bc the computer i targeted has nero installed) but i think those two works

there are also several (i think there are a lot) standalones and hardware players for that as well, even one HD DVD player coming out that will support Nero Digital

you dont need experience...nero recode is a GUI...all you do is point and click....why on earth would you need encoding experience

Nero Digital is best distribution codec, Divx is good for higher bitrate storage and high quality files
Nero's advantage, in my opinion, is most evident with lower bitrates (less than 2-3 mbps)

siddharthagandhi

12th April 2006, 19:37

oh wait sorry didnt answer your second question

i believe youre talking about Nero Vision, I'm talking about Nero Recode 2....only in nero vision can u export to dvd

and no it doesnt allow .avi files but why would you need avi files MPEG-4 is a great container format...

even if it was an .avi file you would still need the codec to play it in WM Player...(if youre worrying about compatibility with pplz computers)

chongy5

12th April 2006, 20:40

siddharthagandhi--Please be careful when you tout one of your favorite tools, anytime you call something the "best", it's an open invitation for controversy. Discussion is good, as long as it remains civil. The same could be said of your signature. It's really not fair to say that something "sucks" just because you're not getting good results. Maybe if you did further testing with these codecs and manipulated your settings you'd come up with better results. "Best" for you doesn't mean it's "best" for everyone.
ammck55

Siddharthagandhi, did you even read this? Yet again, you've said that Nero is the best!

Slitheen

12th April 2006, 20:48

you dont need experience...nero recode is a GUI...all you do is point and click....why on earth would you need encoding experience

And how much does nero recode cost?

setarip_old

12th April 2006, 21:44

@91638

Hi!i want to encode a tv capture into one of these formats and dont know what are the advantages and disadvantages of the codecs. 1) What format did you capture this TV program in (.AVI, MPEG1, or MPEG2)?

2) Since you're talking about a specific concept (compressing your captured TV file), I'd suggest you try creating both DivX-compressed and XviD-compressed .AVIs - and see which one you believe is better...

Please be aware that some DivX-compatible players, such as the Philips 642, also have only limited XviD playback capability.They will not properly play XviD-compressed .AVIs that may include things such as "QPEL"

BigDid

12th April 2006, 22:28

...siddharthagandhi--Please be careful when you tout one of your favorite tools, anytime you call something the "best", it's an open invitation for controversy. Discussion is good, as long as it remains civil. The same could be said of your signature. It's really not fair to say that something "sucks" just because you're not getting good results. ...
Hi Siddharthagandhi,

You are lucky to have a very mild demand from ammck55 (as a moderator) to review your signature. I know, at least, one other mod that could qualify that word as profanity and be more strict per rule4: "Profanity and insults will not be tolerated"
You can get an exemple by doing a search on profanity and look at response number 7.

So would you please edit your signature and change it?
Thank you.

Did

siddharthagandhi

12th April 2006, 22:47

Theres another user that has the same format signature so i thought it was allowed...and sorry i didnt see the post by the mod. I'll PM the mod who said that so he can review that other guy's sig as well bc its the exact same type of list of best codecs and stuff.

I'll change sucky to "Did not Perform Well"...? And i change the numbered list to "Recommended Codecs" ....is that okay with you ppl?
And my testing was very thorough it wasnt just one day i decided to test some stuff. I periodically retest as newer builds and versions of the codecs are released, ex. Divx 5-->6, VP6-->>7...etc.etc.

Nero Recode 2 is a part of the Nero Ultra Edition suite which i think costs somewhere around 20-50 i think its 30 to be exact i dunno for sure. Google it.

And "sucks" as profanity? There are plenty more examples of worser profanities in society than sucks.

BigDid

12th April 2006, 23:11

Thank you.

Did

setarip_old

12th April 2006, 23:25

From the NERO.com website:$79.99 (Online Special)

Nero 7 Ultra Edition now offers both the PC and TV media management experience for a complete digital media solution. With over 18 new and updated applications in one powerful software suite, Nero 7 Ultra Edition is truly the perfect addition to your digital home.

siddharthagandhi

13th April 2006, 00:01

80 dollars? are u sure about that price i think i got it for cheaper...a lot cheaper (i'll have to check on that, maybe im confusing it with some other software)

ammck55

13th April 2006, 00:55

OK, we're all on the same page, and since everyone's still talking and nothing's on fire, my "mod-life" is good. :)

sid-I downloaded and tried to test a demo of VP7 last summer with the goal of pointing it at web-delivered Flash content. The demo was faulty (audio was totally missing, filesize was extremely limited), and I just never got around to digging harder. I've talked to enough dev's and have read enough positive input that I know there's a place for it, I just don't know where my place for it is. It's signal-to-noise ratio is astounding. I don't have a lot of spare time these days to test, so I just end up delivering .wmv and .mov files; they're safe, predictable, all MS OS's will eat them up, and I can throw them down quickly. This is moving away from the original request, so that's all I have on VP7 in this thread. Should you join or initiate a thread with further, more detailed information on your findings in one of the forums that's devoted to new codecs (or, even here in Noobs), PM me so that I can at least subscribe to the thread and hopefully add a piece, or two, to what level of understanding I already have in place.

9168-Feel free to chime back in and ask more questions, after all, this is your party, not ours.

One of the simplest (notice I said "one of" :) ) ways to get into either DivX or XviD encoding is to download and install Auto Gordian Knot. Navigate your way to the AGK forum and pay close attention to anything written by Manono. Follow this AGK Tutorial (http://www.autogk.me.uk/modules.php?name=Tutorial) straight out of the box, and you'll be fine. Get stuck, post here or in the AGK Forum. The important part is not what you're using, it's that you're using something; roll up your sleeves and go to work and you'll get 'er figured out.

$80 isn't exactly a firesale for the full Nero7 suite, you can keep track of your local chain stores and find it for much less, but it won't come on sale every weekend. Right after it came out, Fry's (US stateside chain) had it on sale and with ownership of a previous version, I paid $29.99. I don't think that deal is still available, but I bet you can find it for under $50 if you wait long enough. Fully functional demo's are to be had from Nero, go check 'em out if you like.

ammck55

siddharthagandhi

13th April 2006, 01:50

first off thats exactly what i said in my previous post-->30 dollars. So i am remembering correctly.

I don't have that detailed testings (in terms of stuff that I have saved from the test (results)), but I'll work on something with screenshots and all that.

stax76

13th April 2006, 02:15

Some more applications:

MeGUI
MkvMagic
RealAnime
StaxRip

kwanbis

13th April 2006, 02:43

kwanbis
you dont need experience...nero recode is a GUI...all you do is point and click....why on earth would you need encoding experience(less than 2-3 mbps)
i love nero recode. But i can't seem to find a way of encoding files, onyl DVDs. Do you have info on how to do it?

Nero Digital is best distribution codec, Divx is good for higher bitrate storage and high quality files
Nero's advantage, in my opinion, is most evident with lower bitrates (less than 2-3 mbps)
all the DVDs i have encoded look perfect with Nero Recode, sadly, the quality of DivX is really bad, it looks like a very compressed JPG. I would try to post images for you to see.

i believe youre talking about Nero Vision, I'm talking about Nero Recode 2....only in nero vision can u export to dvd
recode 2 is the one that recodes DVDs

and no it doesnt allow .avi files but why would you need avi files MPEG-4 is a great container format...
i want to encode my Canon S1 IS' generated Motion-JPG avi files, into either DivX (bad quality), Xvid (imposible large), or Nero Digital. But i don't know how to do it in nero digital.

siddharthagandhi

13th April 2006, 03:58

DVD? You have to click the fourth option which is:
"Recode DVDs and Videos to Nero Digital"
Then import your file, and recode it...

About your Divx comemnts. Divx isn't perfect, no codec or format is. But Divx works pretty good, and I agree with what you said it definetly needs some work. In my previous post notice I didn't say best; I'm still testing out codecs to look for a best high bitrate codec. In my testing, there really isn't a stand out codec or format that leads the group as does AVC in the low bitrate field. MPEG-2 is good, WMV is also good, ASP and AVC are equally as good, not much better (although if I chose one or two AVC and ASP would be them, AVC to be specific). When VC-1 comes out I'm hoping that codec will solve my problem of a good high-bitrate codec.

Nero Recode recodes DVDs and also recodes movie files (if you select the right option). Nero Vision can export in DVD compatible format.

Nero Recode accepts .avi as an input, but .mp4 (MPEG-4) as output only.

Btw what do you mean impossible large for Xvid?

kwanbis

13th April 2006, 05:32

DVD? You have to click the fourth option which is:
"Recode DVDs and Videos to Nero Digital"
Then import your file, and recode it...

Nero Recode recodes DVDs and also recodes movie files (if you select the right option). Nero Vision can export in DVD compatible format.

Nero Recode accepts .avi as an input, but .mp4 (MPEG-4) as output only.

Btw what do you mean impossible large for Xvid?
Hi again. Just to clarify, I *DONT* want to do DVD recoding. I want to compress my Motion-JPEG AVIS, that opucy 4GB for 45 mins, to something. Divx compress to 1/10. Which is pretty cool. But quality suffers a lot sometimes, take a look here:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6303/untitledframe000350008rw.png

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/9335/untitledframe000660017bq.png

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6876/untitledframe001000027hg.png

About Xvid, a 34MB Motion-JPEG AVI, translatedinto a 35MB (yes, 35) Xvid.

I wanted to use Nero Digital to encode, but i can't make Nero Recode encode other sources but DVDs.

setarip_old

13th April 2006, 06:13

About Xvid, a 34MB Motion-JPEG AVI, translatedinto a 35MB (yes, 35) Xvid.What was the format of the audio in your original M-JPEG .AVI and what audio format did you convert it to when you created the XviD-compressed .AVI?

kwanbis

13th April 2006, 06:44

34.342.354 MVI_3330.AVI:
Audio Fomat: PCM
Av.Data Rate: 44.100 Kb/second
Sample rate: 22.50 kHz
Audio sample size: 16 bit
Channels: 1 (mono)

2.500.498 MVI_3330.DIVX:
Audio Format: MPEG Layer-3
Av.Data Rate: 16 Kb/second
Sample Rate: 44.100 kHz
Channels: 1

35.966.976 MVI_3330_agk.avi (XVID):
Audio Format: MPEG Layer-3
Av.Data Rate: 6.305 Kb/second
Sample Rate: 22.50 kHz
Channels: 1

Divx is actually 1/12, i would gladdly have a 1/6 file for better quality, but i couldnt. Xvid is excelent, but is bigger than the original!

setarip_old

13th April 2006, 06:49

Well that appears to blow my theory right out of the water - of you having created the XviD file with an Uncompressed PCM audiostream ;>}

I can only surmise that you can further fine tune your XviD video settings to yield a good quality but smaller file...

siddharthagandhi

13th April 2006, 15:06

I know what your purpose is and i'm telling you the correct method. It's the fourth option. You're using Nero Recode 2 right? The titles are all screwed up. Disregard them. Just click on the fourth option, click import files (then import your mjpeg file) then click more, then change the profile to the AVC or ASP bitrate of your choice (I reccommend 2 mbps standard avc, but if you get good quality with lower bitrates then go for it). If you want to customize the bitrate you will have to uncheck the check box that says fit to this file size. Then click next, then click on Nero Digital Settings and change 1 pass or 2 pass, matrices in the ASP codec, and anything else you want to. Then make sure the burn folder is the proper folder, and your output will be a MPEG-4 AVC or ASP file, depending whether you chose the Standard Profile (ASP) or the Standard AVC (AVC).

siddharthagandhi

13th April 2006, 15:08

btw this should compress your 45 minute file down to 630 mb. (standard avc and portable asp) If you can afford a higher file size then do Cinema AVC or Standard ASP. (The profiles are different for AVC and ASP, ex. standard AVC is 2 mbps whereas standard ASP (which will be just plain Standard) is 4 mbps)

xyloy

13th April 2006, 17:05

XVID and DIVX but now i want to encode a tv capture into one of these formats and dont know what are the advantages and disadvantages of the codecs.
First, XviD is free, open-source, and is only a codec(no unwanted trash is given with it like with DivX - so XviD is faster to download :D ).
DivX Pro will cost you some dollars if you want to use QPEL or GMC(by the way, XviD's GMC is more evolved), and some years ago it had the (un)famous Gator spyware in it's trial version.

Appart from all that, XviD - wich is always quite the winner when compared with DivX in all the codecs comparisons I've read - has always gave me a far better visual quality(and a faster encode) than the last version of DivX, mainly because DivX had a lot of macroblocks visible whereas XviD was cleaner.

But XviD is a little harder to use(more options, more complicated for "newbies").
That's surely why some ppl have a better quality with DivX: they tested it (sometimes only once) with settings that may be inadequate...

Standalone playback is granted for both codec if you use the "Home Theatre" profile(and only one B-VOP for XviD).

But again, make your own opinion: test both if you are willing to.

Concerning XviD v1.1 finale (http://www.koepi.org/xvid.shtml), you can try with theses settings for standalone playback:
http://membres.lycos.fr/xcomcmdr/XviD(HomeTheatre)1.png
First "more..." button:
http://membres.lycos.fr/xcomcmdr/XviD(HomeTheatre)2.png
Zone Options:
http://membres.lycos.fr/xcomcmdr/XviD(HomeTheatre)3.png
Cartoon Mode is for all kind of anime/cartoons.
Last "more"... button:
http://membres.lycos.fr/xcomcmdr/XviD(HomeTheatre)4.png
The maximum I-frame interval is usually equal to 10 times the number of frames per second.
http://membres.lycos.fr/xcomcmdr/XviD(HomeTheatre)5.png
For the 2nd pass(the "real" encoding), just change the "encoding type" to "Twopass - 2nd pass", use the bitrate calculator - that's "calc..." button - (or choose a bitrate if you already know wich bitrate to use) and do file => save as...(if you use virtualdubmod).

the support for future codec developments
Well you have this forum for instance. :)
Anyway, with "new generation" H.264/AVC encoders, MPEG-4 ASP VFW codecs like DivX or XviD tends to be made more and more stable/bug-free by their devs, rather than having a new encoding option every month.

Feel free to ask for more explanations. ;)

kwanbis

13th April 2006, 18:59

siddharthagandhi

13th April 2006, 20:30

First off, you're not using Nero Recode 2. Get Nero Recode 2 and then I'll be more sure on what your problem is, if there is one once u upgrade.

Also, maybe click on Nero Digital Titles tab and see if it works?...

Since you're using Nero Recode 1, that means that the options are different and there isn't a fourth option....so can u read off the options that you have? I'm pretty sure that this is the cause, because according to that screenshot, I think you're supposed to use that option for encoding dvd vob files not .avi mjpeg files...so you have to select the other option.

Click more, and check those settings, maybe something is wrong there.

kwanbis

13th April 2006, 22:04

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3739/nr22mq.png

siddharthagandhi

14th April 2006, 00:24

you need to click the one above....recode dvds and videos to nero digital

kwanbis

14th April 2006, 01:56

:eek:

siddharthagandhi

14th April 2006, 02:55

....

i said fourth...if you count from the top thats the fourth...dunno where you got your selection from

91638

14th April 2006, 08:04

Thanks a lot to all. Especially @xyloy for the work posting the pictures and settings.
I tried Auto Gordian Knot but i have the problem that my capture is about 3 1/2 hours and AGK skips encoding after 2 hours and a filesize of 1,74 GB.
If i open the resulting video in VDub it is necessary to reconstruct the missing index blocks.
Does somebody knows a way around the 2h limitation ?
Thanks a lot.

BigDid

14th April 2006, 18:39

Thanks a lot to all. Especially @xyloy for the work posting the pictures and settings.
I tried Auto Gordian Knot but i have the problem that my capture is about 3 1/2 hours and AGK skips encoding after 2 hours and a filesize of 1,74 GB.... Does somebody knows a way around the 2h limitation ?
Thanks a lot.
Hi,

There should be no 2h limitation within AGK, at least there is not for me ;)

Could you be more specific with
- capture params: mpeg2/avi/other audio(s) ...
- what happens in AGK when it skips/stops/quit encoding?
- Post your logfile

Last one what space/size is free on your working HD or partition when beginning that 3-1/2 hour work with AGK?

Did