My fast learning curve experience with DVD-RB-PRO!

[BuddTX]

The first few times I toyed with the idea to use DVD-RB, I decided that it was just too complicated for me to use. I found a FAQ or some help file, and I was so confused by the questions, forget the answers, I did not even understand the questions!

I thought that if I could not even understand the question, that this program would be just too complicated for me to use.

I decided that DVD-RB must be reserved for those "ultra geeks". You know, the geeks that dont use "sissy" programming languages like C++, they use Assembler! The same people that not only know that Ethernet uses packet exchanging, but actually know how to discect a packet! The same people that dont just us an OS, they actually WROTE the OS!

The "Executive summary" version of this post, is that I spent a few days reading different forum posts, different FAQ's, and help files, I just jumped in, and I burned a DVD with the freeware program, liked it, and purchased the DVD-RB-PRO, and, BAM, I am making some great backups! You do NOT NEED to be a "Geeks geek" to use DVD-RB!

A little background:

Like most DVD burner/users out there, I downloaded several different programs that claimed to back up DVD's. AND, like most of yall, I had varied success with the programs. THEN I found DVD Shrink! I learned the concept of why one has to "SHRINK" a dvd, because the original DVD probably had up to 8.5 or so GIG of data, and the DVD+-R mostly were single layer, 4.7 gig dvd's. DVD Shrink taught me all about removing different languages, and removing trailers, and previews, and different compression options, and other "advanced" options that DVD SHRINK offered, and to quote Rob Schnider of SNL fame, I was "MAKIN' COPIES"!

After a while of DVD SHRINK not posting any updates, I was starting to look around for other options. After all, I have been in hobbies like this before, where a freeware author suddenly "dissappears", and there are no more updates, and the software becomes obsolete. (Anyone here ever heard of terms like Cloakworks, Summit Stealth, "Always clean twice", WinExplorer, BasicH, and the H Card?!!! <grin!>)

So, I see that SlySoft is actively updating their software, and there are a lot of rave reviews about AnyDVD, and I was familiar with CLONECD, so I see that there is a sale, and I purchase CLONECD, CLONEDVD2, and AnyDVD. I am just THRILLED with both AnyDVD and CDCLONE, but a little dissapointed with CLONEDVD2. NOT because it was somehow defective, but I wanted something MORE than DVD Shrink. CLONEDVD2 is almost TOO SIMPLE! I wanted something the next step above DVD SHRINK.

I bought CLONEDVD2 without trying it out, so it was my fault!

BUT, I feel good, because I am not just DL freeware, I am supporting the industry, and SlySoft seems to be a major player.

I bought CLONEDVD2 without trying it out, so it was my fault, but I really like CLONECD and AnyDVD!

Then one day, I am on the CDFREAKS forums, and I find this thread:
Deep Analysis for Clone DVD2 Please Slysoft
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=167352

And I learn all about RE-ENCODING vs TRANSCODING, and the quality vs time benefits, and the thread becomes a discussion about DVD-RB-PRO.

So, I download DVD-RB, play with it, (I should have taken advantage of the 21 day free trial of CLONEDVD2!) I like the program, I read some FAQ'a and help guids, disreguard anything that I do not understand, and BAM, I am now making GREAT COPIES!

After a short learning curve, I found that DVD-RB-PRO offers me the control that I want (and more) yet it is also easy to use.

So here is what I use:

AnyDVD to rip the DVD to my HD
DVD-RB-PRO to re-incode and remove all unwanted stuff
ImgBURN to burn the DVD

Now I still have questions, like, what is the absolute best re-encoder? I am having great results with HC, I have read several posts that have said that HC is as good, if not better, than CCE, yet it is free, but it does take a longer time to re-encode.

And what is the best comprimise between quality and compression for "Steal space from extras", (0-10-25-50% compression, and Half D1 vs Half D1 and Half Space).

And, I see that if I really wanted to, I could get really into this program, and tweak to my hearts content.

I wanted to post this in case there are others like me, that at first glance, decide that DVD-RB-PRO is "too intense" for a casual user. AND, I get the satisfiction that I am "squeezing every last ounce of quality out of my DVD backups!

[jamos]

I personally like procoder2 the best.

[smok3]

so, uhmm, what was wrong with dvd-shrink again?

[jdobbs]

Do one disc and you won't ask that question again... it's all about quality. I gave up on Shrink shortly after it came out for that reason, and did all my discs using CCE -- but back then you had to do it the hard way, with bunches of steps...

As for an encoder choice -- I'm very pleased with CCE as an encoder. Lots of speed and quality. I also like ProCoder. It seems to work especially well at low bitrates.... HC just keeps getting better and is very close if not equal to CCE (but quite a bit slower).

[rack04]

BuddTX,

Do you use the AnyDVD Ripper or just "drag and drop" the files to your hard drive? Thanks.

[jdobbs]

With AnyDVD copying is the same thing as ripping. It's just done via the device driver.

[jdobbs]

@BuddTX

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for all the kind words. Yeah, if DVD-RB has one weakness it has to be all the old guides that are floating around -- to include the old text still in the REBUILDER.TXT file.... it's just a lot easier than most people think. A complete novice can do a backup -- but DVD-RB is also specifically designed to include lots of methods to let the geeks tinker...

I still scratch my head when I hear people make comparisons between high-quality encoders like CCE and ProCoder to transcoders. I guess some people just resist change and will fight forever to defend their decision to do so... to them I say "More power to you, enjoy your transcoder." -- but to anyone who actually tries a couple semi-difficult discs the quality difference is intuitively obvious to the casual observer... especially during full fps playback.

I hope you enjoy many, many high quality backups.

[BuddTX]

so, uhmm, what was wrong with dvd-shrink again?

First of all, I am no expert. Just want to get that up front!

Second of all, there is nothing wrong with DVD SHRINK. I thought I gave it a lot of praise. I think this mature piece of software and has stood the test of time. Except for some newer dvd's, it still backs up most dvd's, with acceptable quality. I would bet that most people that back up their dvd's, have probably used DVD SHRINK at one time.

(And NERO RECODE 2, (some people call it the "upgraded" DVD Shrink, rumor has it that the author of DVD Shrink (maybe) went to work for NERO and authored RECODE 2) along with DVD43 or AnyDVD is a great combo too.)

And CloneDVD2 from Slysoft, can it get any easier? And it is fast too. A friend of mine uses this to make backups of her children's dvd's to watch in the cars or to let the children load the dvd's. It is quick, easy, and the kids do not notice any difference!

But these are Transcoders, and DVD-RB is a re-encoder (or uses different re-encoders). Please someone correct me if I am wrong, but a Transcoder shrinks the VOB file as a whole, whereas a re-encoder takes each video frame of the VOB file, and compresses the video yet maintains maximum video quality.

It is my opinion that DVD-RB is the "next level up" from these transcoders.

JDobbs, THANNKS so much for a great "work of art"!

Hey, I just tried the BATCH feature! I have a 3.8 MHz Pentium4 at work, with 2 gig or ram, and a half terabyte or HD, and it just sits there at night, but not anymore!

I am going to try tomorrow to a several batchs, and try to burn only the first batch, and just make ISO's of the other batches.

I do have some enhancement requests, I think that others have already asked for these features, and I will add them to the "new features" thread, but . . .

First Request
"Give back space/quality to extras, if the main movie does not need it"
I like to backup my main movie and the extras, but I like to give the maximum quality to the movie. Setting D1 and half space and 50% compression gives maximum space for the movie, but of course, the extras are very very grainy. I would like to see (if possible!!) "Give back space/quality to extras, if the main movie does not need it"

Second Request
Ability to set the start and stop frames of the main movie. I think others have also asked for this enhancmenet.

Thank you!

[oso2k6]

Hi Jdobbs, first of all, thank you for this great program, maybe you can help me out a little bit, when using dvd rb + cce, is it always necessary to check "Convert to YUY2" option? or is it only necessary when using avisynth filters in dvd rb?
Because i encoded a movie and i forgot to check "Convert to YUY2" option, but i didn't use any avisynth filter. I watched the output and it looks good to me. Can this cause any problems?
Maybe is it better to encode the movie again with that option checked?

About procoder, you say it's a very good encoder, i think the same, but my outputs with dvd rb + procoder looks too dark compared to the source, is it possible to make it look more like the source(less dark)? maybe using an avisynth filter?

Thank you very much for your time =)

[jdobbs]

It depends on your version of CCE. All versions before v2.70 required the conversion. But, don't worry about the setting. DVD Rebuilder knows that it is needed and does the conversion when CCE is selected no matter whether its checked. If you watch the movie and it looks good, there's no reason to redo it.

AVISYNTH has a built-in filter for adjusting levels of hue, saturation, brightness, and contrast. Its called "Tweak" and you can read about it here. (http://www.avisynth.org/Tweak)

This line added with filter editor will brighten the image a little:

Tweak(bright=5)

[Boulder]

@oso2k6: for the brightness issue, try using ColorMatrix together with NaN's DGDecode build. Download the appropriate package and extract dgdecode.dll to the DVD-RB folder overwriting the existing file.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=105484

You need to add the line ColorMatrix(mode="rec.601->rec.709",hints=true) in the filter editor to make ColorMatrix do its magic.

All CCE versions want YUY2 data.

[JohnG]

All CCE versions want YUY2 data.

I'm sure you are correct, however I remember reading (a looooong time ago on another forum, starting with K...), that it is actually better to let the Xvid codec handle this and not Avisynth. At the time, it was from a very out-spoken and knowledgeable source...then again, that doesn't mean it's accurate.

[jptheripper]

um.. xvid?

[oso2k6]

Hi, thanks for your answers, well i tried colormatrix but didn't make any difference in the output with procoder2, i tried putting ColorMatrix(mode="rec.601->rec.709",hints=true) at the beginning and at the end of the filter editor, and also without any other filter and nothing happened. I pasted colormatrix.dll plugin in avisynth plugin folder and dgdecode build in dvd rb folder. Maybe i'm doing something wrong? or i have to put other colormatrix options? Is it better to put the colormatrix line at the beginning or at the end of the filter editor?

Now i'm trying Jdobbs suggestion, and i think the results are really good, maybe i need to play a little with the brightness and the contrast to obtain the best results.

[JohnG]

um.. xvid?
Yes, the colorspace conversion from YV12 to YUY2. If you have the codec installed, it should perform the conversion despite the omission of "ConvertToYUY2" in the script.

[jptheripper]

Yes, the colorspace conversion from YV12 to YUY2. If you have the codec installed, it should perform the conversion despite the omission of "ConvertToYUY2" in the script.

wow, this is why i hate the codec concept. I dont want anything "performing the conversion" without out me explicitly telling it to do so.

[jdobbs]

I have XviD installed on my system -- but leaving off the ConvertToYUY2() command on versions before v2.70 will definitely cause the encode to fail. I have difficulty imagining why the XviD codec would be involved in MPEG2 decoding... unless, of course, the source was XviD.

I think CCE v2.70 will work with YV12 -- but the color conversion to YUY2 is done by CCE... not positive about all the particulars, though.

[Boulder]

The YV12->YUY2 conversion is done by some codec in your system capable of doing it. Be it XviD, DivX or the Helix YV12 codec. The problem with letting them do the conversion is that they assume progressive material so they only cause problems with interlaced stuff.

It is recommended that you do the conversion in the Avisynth script so that you can be sure nothing goes wrong and that the quality of the conversion is optimal.

[Boulder]

Hi, thanks for your answers, well i tried colormatrix but didn't make any difference in the output with procoder2, i tried putting ColorMatrix(mode="rec.601->rec.709",hints=true) at the beginning and at the end of the filter editor, and also without any other filter and nothing happened. I pasted colormatrix.dll plugin in avisynth plugin folder and dgdecode build in dvd rb folder. Maybe i'm doing something wrong? or i have to put other colormatrix options? Is it better to put the colormatrix line at the beginning or at the end of the filter editor?

If it didn't make a difference, then the filter has decided that the input and output colorimetry are the same and does nothing. Well, actually it calls Limiter() but anyway.

Could you post a small sample of the source and the file processed by DVD-RB (without ColorMatrix)? A few frames will do.

[oso2k6]

Could you post a small sample of the source and the file processed by DVD-RB (without ColorMatrix)? A few frames will do.No prob.
http://rapidshare.de/files/17396509/before_after_encode.rar.html

[Boulder]

The colorimetries are the same so ColorMatrix won't do anything else than call Limiter().

Try adding this in the filter editor as the last item:
ColorYUV(levels="pc->tv").ConverttoYUY2()

[oso2k6]

Thank you Boulder, that made the output brighter, a little more brighter than the original, but barely noticeable. Can you explain me what that command do?

[Boulder]

From the Avisynth docs: "levels can be set to either "TV->PC" or "PC->TV". This will perform a range conversion. Normally YUV values are not mapped from 0 to 255 (PC range), but a limited range (TV range). This performs conversion between the two formats. If nothing is entered as parameter, no conversion will be made (default operation)."

In this case doing the PC->TV levels conversion compensates something that ProCoder does to the input clip.

The reason why it is a bit brighter than the original could be that now the range for luma should be 16-235 but in the original clip it can (and probably will) have values over 235.