what container should i use when encodiing to xvid.

[sarmin]

hi

i wonder witch container i should use. witch one gives a better output. and what software should i use to encode? i'm going to encode any format to xvid like vdub does but vdub can only convert xvid useing the avi container.

[Adub]

I recommend encoding with MeGUI. It is one of the best programs around. It will also allow you to encode to a variety of containers, such as AVI, MP4, RAW, and MKV.

To find it Just go to the Mpeg-4 encoder GUI section of the forum. You won't miss it. Or you can follow the links in my sig. But the forum is great for people just starting out with MeGUI.

[shon3i]

For XviD best is AVI, but aslo very good is MKV, MP4 is good option but is unnecessary.

[dukey]

i wouldn't say avi is best
but certainly most compatable
with stand alones etc

[bond]

it always depends on what you want to do
eg avi is not compatible with the ipod, psp... in this case you would want to use mp4

for pc useage i dont see any advantage in using avi (eg no chapters possible)

[stax76]

I'm using AVI with MP3 (lame, new vbr mode -V 5) and XviD (fixed quantizer 3 -> DivX decoder with medium deblocking and little film effect). If I need two audio tracks or subtitles I'm using MKV with vsrip subtitles and AAC HE at 50-70 kbps. Biggest MP4 problem is no vobsub subtitles (only Nero support it), OCR is a major pain. Biggest DivX problem is no AAC or Vorbis. The difference between two MP3 tracks and two AAC He tracks is > 100 kbps, 10-20% of the overall size.

[sarmin]

i'm going to use it to play movies on my dvd. my dvd can take both avi and the mp4 container. so i wonder witch one to use and what the diffence is. if i use mp4 do i get better quality,speed and compression?

[CWR03]

The container has nothing to do with the quality of the file or the speed of the encode. That comes from the ability of the codec or the settings used, or the program that utilizes the codec. There is a slight efficiency in using .mkv over .avi, but it's minimal.

Keep in mind too that asking a "which is better" question can't be answered objectively, since everyone's perception will be different. The only way to find out which will work better for you will be to run some tests and decide for yourself.

[bond]

i'm going to use it to play movies on my dvd. my dvd can take both avi and the mp4 container. so i wonder witch one to use and what the diffence is. if i use mp4 do i get better quality,speed and compression?use mp4 because you than can use aac audio (better quality than mp3) and chapters

[shon3i]

aac audio (better quality than mp3)Is better but is not noticable quality at high bitrates compared to mp3, aslo for me aac only good option when i using it for 5.1 encoding.

and chaptersThis is very hard work.

[bond]

1) i have yet to see the proove that mp3 provides better results than aac when using good encoders
2) creating and muxing chapters into mp4 is damn easy

i get the feeling you are too fast in forming and posting your opinions ("For XviD best is AVI")...

[shon3i]

1) i have yet to see the proove that mp3 provides better results than aac when using good encoders
I am not proove anything becouse differents is little when encoding @ 128-192 for movies, this different is not noticable.

2) creating and muxing chapters into mp4 is damn easyYes it easy, LOL, more about one hour of wasted time

("For XviD best is AVI")......and i get feeling that you too fast posting your opinions (read MP4)

[Teegedeck]

shon3i, refrain from attempts at flaming, please.

There is no best container. Full stop. And even if there was; we have a rule against asking 'what's best'... ;-)

I prefer MKV, bond prefers MP4, shon3i prefers AVI, others prefer OGM; fact is none of them deteriorates the quality of the video and that's what the scope of this subforum is. Technically AVI is quite an ugly Frankenstein by now, that's true though... ;)

For informing yourself about the pros and cons of container formats, please turn to the containers forum (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=74), sarmin. To give a short wrap-up, if you don't need anything but MP3 audio and don't care about chapter support you have the free choice among all container formats.

BTW, the LAME developers are putting up a damn good fight against more modern technical designs like AAC or Vorbis. The most recent public listening test around 128 kbps (stereo) (http://www.maresweb.de/listening-tests/mf-128-1/results.htm) saw ALL participants statistically tied. And almost transparent at that! So nowadays we are in the lucky situation that we only need worry about what codec to choose when we aim at lower bitrates than that, it would seem.

[shon3i]

There is no best container.I agree with you.

I prefer MKVI aslo prefer mkv more than avi and mp4 but avi is something where XviD start, and grove up.

So nowadays we are in the lucky situation that we only need worry about what codec to choose when we aim at lower bitrates than that, it would seem.
You totality right, i talking about it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

.... Biggest MP4 problem is no vobsub subtitles (only Nero support it), OCR is a major pain. Indeed.

Media Player Classic (with Haali or Gabest's MP4 filters) can display VOBsub subtitles. So if you could work out a way of getting the VOBsub streams into MP4 that would be great.... Unfortunately, MP4box does not support muxing such streams :(

[bond]

I agree with you.than why did you write
For XviD best is AVI

[shon3i]

than why did you writethat stay, i am stay with first statement (read "For XviD best is AVI") for now, but i aslo think that there is no best container at all.

[Lil' Jer]

Yes it easy, LOL, more about one hour of wasted time

How did it take you an hour to put chapters into an mp4? All you do is open the ifo in ChapterXtractor, save as ogg chapters, open YAMB, open the chapter file. Mux. From extracting the chapters to hitting the mux button that takes maybe 30-60 seconds. If that's too hard I think the problem is on your end...

[Mtz]

@sarmin, first check your standalone if MP4 support is good:
- some of them cannot play Standard Cinema Profile (5.1 AAC), but this can be solved patching the firmware of the player with a small hack
- some of them cannot go to the chapters
- some of them when selecting the second subtitle (if you have included them in the MP4) are freezing
- I think all cannot play MP4 with external subtitles (not tested yet by me)

At this moment is no reason to include the XviD in MP4. Only for chapters?
Another option is to create a .divx file if your player support subtitles in .divx. But again, if you player support external subtitles is no reason for .divx container.

enjoy,
Mtz

[Romario]

Well, I think that, for Xvid, there is no need for MKV or MP4 containers, because most DVD/DivX Players doesn't support MKV or MP4 containers. That is clear enough.

Eventually, very few of the DivX players support MP4 container, but I really think that Xvid should use AVI container.

[Teegedeck]

shon3i, you're contradicting yourself. Don't try to confuse us... :p

Again, XviD doesn't care what container it is put into. Those of us who own a standalone player will of course use the container that is supported by their standalone. People who don't care about standalones (like me) will use containers that are technically more advanced and offer them more features - like support for chapters, AAC, VFR, multiple embedded subs, attachments, editable aspect ratios...

By the way, thread moved to New and alternative A/V containers (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=74).

[shon3i]

How did it take you an hour to put chapters into an mp4? All you do is open the ifo in ChapterXtractor, save as ogg chapters, open YAMB, open the chapter file. Mux. From extracting the chapters to hitting the mux button that takes maybe 30-60 seconds. If that's too hard I think the problem is on your end...
That is i you way but in my way i must to translate this chapters.

Don't try to confuse us... I don't confuse you, i just work with XviD about three years and AVI container and i don't see the reason why using mp4, aac becouse there is not necesary, OK there is problems with Ipod and cell phones but in normal encoding avi is perfect container. MP4 and AAC will be good only with XviD AVC, like x264.

[Teegedeck]

MP4 and AAC will be good only with XviD AVC, like x264.
You don't make any sense here. XviD goes with any container, everyone can pick the one he likes. Don't generalize your own taste. Or do you want to say that I've been making a mistake encoding to MKV all these years...? Has bond been making a mistake using MP4? Have you been making a mistake using AVI? Certainly not. All those containers work and they apparently fit the needs of the people that use them. If they didn't those people would just have switched to different container. Now, please finally quit this nonsensical debate.

[shon3i]

You don't make any sense hereThis have big sense becouse when using ASP who will be readed by standalones and put AAC who will be rejected. Of course today most players support NeroDigital (read ASP+AAC) but many ppl have player without this support.

Nobody make mistake but is mistake using now aac with is XviD becouse standalone players can play them. Anyway MKV is great container but also not suported by standalones, of course there is not need any container than ,AVI is good container for AAC via AviMUX, Everything working fine, like MP4,MKV. And of course i switched to MKV when i start using AVC+AAC.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well then, may I suggest....

If there's anybody here intending to buy a stand-alone player in the near future, they make sure it's capable of supporting .AVI and .MP4 containers (including AAC audio).

Players with DivX and/or NeroDigital certification is helpful but not a necessity....


Cheers

[bond]

the point in this thread is that:
if the player handles mp4 with aac and interal subs and chapters, why use avi where you cant use these 3 goodies...

[Lil' Jer]

That is i you way but in my way i must to translate this chapters.

Huh? So obviously the problem is on your end not with the mp4 container. Just because you have problems putting chapters into an mp4 file doesn't mean it is hard and is just as easy as adding chapters to mkv files.

I don't confuse you, i just work with XviD about three years and AVI container and i don't see the reason why using mp4, aac becouse there is not necesary, OK there is problems with Ipod and cell phones but in normal encoding avi is perfect container. MP4 and AAC will be good only with XviD AVC, like x264.

Because people have standalone players or devices that can play ASP encodes in the mp4 container with aac audio.

[Lil' Jer]

Well then, may I suggest....

If there's anybody here intending to buy a stand-alone player in the near future, they make sure it's capable of supporting .AVI and .MP4 containers (including AAC audio).

Players with DivX and/or NeroDigital certification is helpful but not a necessity....

Or the RJTECH RJ-1500DVXII which is a great player that can do just that.

[CoRoNe]

Personally I like MKV best, but how come I haven't heared anyone mentioning Vorbis Audio in this thread? According to the most recent audio listening test on the Hydrogen Audio forums Vorbis is declared to be the best.
MKV[XviD+Vorbis] for me :cool:

[foxyshadis]

Vorbis q -1 (45kbps) is undergoing some modifications to raise its quality a bit more, too. :D Alpha only atm.

But vorbis isn't mentioned because he's only asking about xvid/mp3.

[shon3i]

Because people have standalone players or devices that can play ASP encodes in the mp4 container with aac audio.Yes, but my player don't have this option and many. Newermind, for now i stay with mp3 and AVI.

[multicone]

Interesting. People asking questions, but it seems they know the best answer for them beforehand ?

[Romario]

I think that AVI is optimal container for Xvid, as I mentioned on previous page.

So, we don't need to argue about something ordinary and well known things. Xvid don't have B-frames, so there is absolutely no need for MP4 or MKV containers.

I think that this thread should be locked, before someone hurts someone else feelings.

[foxyshadis]

Xvid don't have B-frames, so there is absolutely no need for MP4 or MKV containers.
Wait, what.

[mod]

Xvid don't have B-frames
:eek:

[JoeBG]

Xvid don't have B-frames, so there is absolutely no need for MP4 or MKV containers.


2 bframes are default.

[bond]

i get the feeling we get more and more total newbies posting their not well thought through opinions...

[darkavatar1470]

at least he knows B-frames may be a problem for avi....

[Caroliano]

If Xvid don't use b-frames, why that? (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=80430)

[xDrJx]

In my opinion AVI sucks hell, the only reason why I still stick with it is the fact that my SAP can't handle mp4 with it's goodies, so I have to use AVI encodes with multiple audio tracks and external subtitles:(
But the day I own a mp4 capable SAP mp4 is the only way to go.

[Lil' Jer]

I think that AVI is optimal container for Xvid, as I mentioned on previous page.

Well you would be wrong. To put ASP encoded content into an AVI container there are many dirty hacks that had to be used.

So, we don't need to argue about something ordinary and well known things. Xvid don't have B-frames,

Please tell me you aren't being serious. XviD is set by default to use two b-frames. All ASP codecs use b-frames.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1991/untitleds0ul.png

so there is absolutely no need for MP4 or MKV containers.

Yes there is. For people who don't want to use a hacked container to put their encodes in.

I think that this thread should be locked, before someone hurts someone else feelings.

I think you should stop posting about things you obviously have no clue about.

[futurex]

wow after reading this thread i must say i have lost a little bit of faith (accuracy of info) in doom9. the mods and major players have and are doing a wonderful job, but this posting of completely false info by certain members which announce them so carelessly as FACT really sucks.

imo delete all posts in the thread and have a single reply, pointing to the relevant stickys

[sarmin]

my dvd player supports nero digital,acc,vorbis,divx,xvid.
i have another question why can virtualdub only create avi's.
and whats the difference between opendml 2 and avi legacy.

[shon3i]

my dvd player supports nero digital,acc,vorbis,divx,xvid.

You can than use MP4 with all goodies. You can use aac audio @ lower bitrates to give video higer bitrate to produce more quality, or you can use 5.1 audio which is very good.

i have another question why can virtualdub only create avi's.
and whats the difference between opendml 2 and avi legacy.
Becouse Virtualdub use vfw encoding, and opendml avi is better, but is not compactible with all standalones.

[Lil' Jer]

i have another question why can virtualdub only create avi's.

Because virtualdub is limited by the vfw framework.

[Lil' Jer]

Becouse Virtualdub use vfw encoding, and opendml avi is better, but is not compactible with all standalones.

The only thing that's better is that it isn't limited by the 2gig filesize limit. They are just as bad in respect to putting content encoded with b-frames in the container as legacy avis.

[Caroliano]

Open-DML

An extension to the AVI file format that allows the creation of AVI files larger than 2 GB. Open-DML files usually contain super- and standard indexes, but an additional legacy index is allowed. Read this to learn more or get the entire specification here.
Warning: Some Hardware divX Players do not want to read Open-DML files!Open-DML-files use a different index format, compared to old AVI files, which uses less overhead (33% less). Nethertheless, it is allowed to add an old index ("legacy index") to make the first part of the file 100% compatible to the old AVI format. The Open-DML specification seems to allow an interesting interpretation of the index: As the index points to the video and audio data directly, and as no chunk headers are mentioned, it seems to be valid to put several video or audio frames into one chunk, create an index entry for each frame, and then force an AVI reader to use the index to retrieve single frames by setting the AVIF_MUSTUSEINDEX flag in the headers. Doing this decreases the overhead by almost 50%, compared to "normal" Open-DML files (that means 66% compared to AVI 1.0).
Microsoft's AVI splitter can read such files correctly, as well as VirtualDub(Mod). However, Gabest's AVI splitter, as well as lots of Linux tools, don't like files created that way.
Source: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/en_about_opendml.html & http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/definitions.html