Low res, low bitrate encodes: recommended matrices?

[Chainmax]

I'm about to make some mpeg2 encodes at 352x288 with an average bitrate of 1150kbps, which matrices would you recommend me to use?

[archaeo]

With not much detail to hold, I'd suggest
Bach1 byDDog, or maybe Bulletproof's Heavy Compression Matrice

[Chainmax]

By "With not much detail to hold", do you mean that those matrices will wipe out lots of detail? Also, if matrices like AVAMAT6 are good for full D1 at 3500+kbps, why shouldn't they be appropriate for an encode at a quarter of the resolution with a third of the bitrate?

[Amnon82]

AVAMAT6 was designed for bitrates over 2000 kbs. Take a look on my low bitrate matrix AVAMAT7 (also called AutoQ2Matrix).

But AVAMAT6 should also do the job.

[Chainmax]

But those 2000kbps minimum are for a full D1 encode, right? Why shouldn't it work on an encode at a quarter of the resolution and a quarter of the bitrate?

[MrTroy]

I'm about to make some mpeg2 encodes at 352x288 with an average bitrate of 1150kbps, which matrices would you recommend me to use?
Slightly offtopic, but why mpeg2? Your resolution and bitrate are VCD values, so why not use mpeg1?

[Amnon82]

352x240 or 352x288 are normal DVD-resolutions.

Shure AVAMAT6 will do the job, but try also AVAMAT7. It will compress a little more than AVAMAT6 and is designed for this resolution and bitrate.

Why mpeg2? Cos mpeg2 will do a better job. MPEG1 is good for VCD but I think Chainmax will do a DVD with more than one film on it.

I did a DVD with the complete 24 Season 1 on it using MPEG2 and AVAMAT7.

[Chainmax]

MrTroy: Amnon82 is right, these encodes are part of the extras section of a DVD I'm creating. That's why I chose such resolution and bitrate.

Amnon82: I might have to use a lower resolution anyway so I'll give AVAMAT7 a shot. By the way, this is AVAMAT6:

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/6608/matrix3xt.png (http://imageshack.us)

and this is AVAMAT7

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/3301/matrix24yp.png (http://imageshack.us)

, right?

[Chainmax]

One more thing: when calculating average video bitrate for (S)VCDs, I take into account 800MB per CD because of MODE2 burning. When making DVDs though, I take into account 4474.88MB (4.37GBx1024) per DVD. Is that ok? If not, what space should I allocate per disc?

[Mug Funky]

i'm not at all sure if mpeg-2 @ SIF is DVD compliant at all. when i set the encoders here to SIF size, they grey-out the mpeg-2 option, leaving only mpeg-1. they might be being overzealous though.

though, to be honest is there a difference between mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 at this resolution? interlace doesn't exist at this size. i suspect that there'll be no difference between mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 except for compatibility.

[Chainmax]

According to videohelp.com, VCD and Half D1 resolutions are part of the DVD specs. As for difference between mpeg1 and mpeg2 at these settings, I read many times that mpeg2 scales much better.

[Amnon82]

Chainmax, your right. You picked the right matrices. As you see in the beginning both matrices are almost the same, only in the high frequences I compress more. Give both a shot and see the difference your self.

p.s. MPEG2 scales in many ways better than mpeg1.

[Boulder]

With that avg bitrate, I would use MPEG1 as it's designed for low bitrates. MPEG2 is better at higher bitrates.

EDIT: and if you choose MPEG1, use TMPGEnc 2.5 as it's better than CCE. I think that the MPEG1 encoding module of TMPGEnc is free :)

[Chainmax]

Well, I can just encode to both and see which I like better. Remember that these low-res, low-bitrate videos are meant to be the extras on a DVD. Can a standalone like the Panasonic S35 I have on the house play a disc with main feature in mpeg2 and extras in mpeg1? Also, can someone answer the question I asked right before Mug Funky's reply?

[Boulder]

It should work, at least MPEG1 is DVD compliant as well as the regular MPEG2. It could be that they need to be in different VTS's though.

According to the DVD Demystified FAQ, the max video bitrate for MPEG1 on DVDs is 1.856Mbps so you'll have to limit the maximum to that if you want absolute compliancy.

What comes to that unanswered question, I don't know. I've always used 4350-4375MB as the available capacity per disc and very rarely had oversizing, with 4350MB never.

[Amnon82]

The maximum of a DVD is 4483 MB (Nero Burning Rom). I limited AutoQ2s maximum size to 4476 MB. 4474.88 MB shouldn't be the problem.

For the authoring issue: You can add MPEG2 and MPEG1 to one VTS (tested with DVD-Lab Pro, you can also mix resolutions there) but it is always better to add it to a different VTS.

[Boulder]

The maximum of a DVD is 4483 MB (Nero Burning Rom). I limited AutoQ2s maximum size to 4476 MB. 4474.88 MB shouldn't be the problem.

The values I use are with overhead subtracted so 4350-4375MB is the "real" available space regardless of how many clips you use. The maximum I have tried was 10 videos + one audio track each, in that case the final DVD size was quite close to a full disc.

[Bentso]

352x240 and 352x288 are only supported on DVD with MPEG1 encoding. Not MPEG2. If you stick to the specifiactions.

That doesn't mean that most of the DVD-players wouldn't play 352x288 MPEG2. Most will but it's not standard.

[Boulder]

Nope. 352x288/240 and MPEG2 is DVD compliant.

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.4