how to know audio delay before remuxing dvd

[the phoenix]

hi again

i would like to know how can i do to get an idea of the audio delay i have before remuxing a dvd.
if i set the delay on 0 then sound is in advance so i have to delay it, ok but for how many ms ?
is there a tool that could help me by viewing the video and listening to the audio ?
thx

[CoNS]

You easily check the a/v delay with PgcDemux by jsoto. PgcDemux is also the best freeware demux application around...

[the phoenix]

well that's where is my problem, pgcdemux tells me i have no delay; in ifoedit i set with no delay and then when watching the movie i have desync...

[CoNS]

Are you using latest version of IfoEdit (v0.971)? Previous versions are known to have bugs when authoring NTSC video.

BTW, try muxing/authoring with MuxMan instead...

[the phoenix]

i do use ifoedit 0.9.7.1
i'll try with muxman but after trying many times i'm approching the right timing
my only problem now is that the subs i've added are ok at the beginning but desync at the end... any idea how i can fix this ?
thx

[CoNS]

i do use ifoedit 0.9.7.1
i'll try with muxman but after trying many times i'm approching the right timingWell, the a/v check in PgcDemux should work and is normally precise. I think jsoto would be very interested in any possible bug, so maybe you could post about the problem in the IFO/VOB editors section? However, it could be caused by problems with the original DVD used for demuxing, or with the video or audio streams if you've done some manual editing after demuxing.

my only problem now is that the subs i've added are ok at the beginning but desync at the end... any idea how i can fix this ?Maybe this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=772426#post772426) will help.

[the phoenix]

thx
i think the problem comes from the original dvd which as a funny strcture i guess.
for the post you sent me to, i've red it before and not that clear to me.
i have not original subs to get the sync from.

and for subtitle workshop it doesn't open the m2v file i get when demuxing, in fact so few softs open this kind of file it's a bit weird.

[CoNS]

for the post you sent me to, i've red it before and not that clear to me.
i have not original subs to get the sync from.The method no. 4 I described in the above mentioned post should work for you. This is from the SubtitleCreator user manual:

DVD player options (you should only see this if you have DirectX installed, and have a software DVD player, i.e. the MPEG codec, on your system):
Open DVD, root menu, chapter menu, stop, play backwards, pause, play, previous and next chapter, plus a tracker that let’s you jump through the movie. Currently, this feature doesn’t work if another program already uses the DVD interface, such as DVDshrink.

2. Choose the subtitle colors here, and their transparency. The colors are defined in the IFO that comes with the DVD (SubtitleCreator starts with the IFO in the Examples directory). As the original subtitles also use this color palette, you better use it yourself.

3. Position the subtitle window (I play the DVD and reposition the subtitle window using the two black triangle markers, which indicate the top and bottom of the window). Additionally, after loading a DVD, you should see a third menu that allows you to synchronize with the DVD (I prefer the advanced synchronization using an original SUP, but sometimes the movie doesn’t have a subtitle, in which case I resort to this option). It works as follows: you pause the movie, select the subtitle you would like to appear at the current time, press “Insert sub”, and potentially adjust the timing a little.
After you have done this for a couple of subtitles (at least one near the beginning, and one near the end), press synchronize and voilà, all other subtitles are corrected as well using time shifting and frame rate corrections.However, there seems to be a bug in the latest version of SC so that the extra, third menu is actually not shown! You can use v1.8.7 where it works! (I'll send Paddington, the author of SC, a message about this bug!)

[the phoenix]

thx a lot i'll try that but to me it seems that i will have to go threw 3h of resubstiling
have you heard of DivxLand Media Subtitler it quite cool when you want to resync the all thing
http://www.divxland.org/subtitler.php

[Sir Didymus]

Hi the phoenix :)

Actually the way you are using to check the a/v delay
- I mean using PgcDemux - is the right one to be sure,
in case the Jsoto application reports no audio, that you will
definitely have (potentially) big synchronisation troubles
if you try to demux (and remux) your title by PGC.

The situation happens when there are initial cells in the PGC,
without audio. See for reference:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84778&page=6

This may be due to the blanking of unwanted contents, or even
in original un-processed titles. As example it may happen, in
titles taking two DVDs, to have the initial PGC of the second
DVD filled with "fake" chapters, just in order to let the display
of the standalone player to show a chapter number coherent
(i.e. higher) with the chapters of the first DVD. See
the following situation happened to a guy in the Rebuilder forum:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=106337

I am not sure if the condition happens when these cells have
a different Vob Id respect to the other or always, whenever the
initial cell(s) just have no audio.

In any case the suggestion is to demux by Vob ID.

The "right" way to know the a/v delay into these "anomalous"
conditions is to use VobEdit.

You should be able to "see" the initial cells (VOB ID and Cell ID
values in the navigation packs). Go to the first navigation pack
of the first cell having some audio contents. Get the Value of the
Vobu Start Presentation Time. Go to the first audio pack and get the
PTS (Presentation Time) of the audio.

Since both values are represented in 90 KHz "ticks", the a/v delay in ms.
for the cell you are looking at is (Audio PTS - Vobu Start PTS)/90.

Of course the same "desynch" problem holds for the subtitles...

Cheers
SD

[the phoenix]

Hi the phoenix :)

Actually the way you are using to check the a/v delay
- I mean using PgcDemux - is the right one to be sure,
in case the Jsoto application reports no audio, that you will
definitely have (potentially) big synchronisation troubles
if you try to demux (and remux) your title by PGC.

The situation happens when there are initial cells in the PGC,
without audio. See for reference:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84778&page=6

This may be due to the blanking of unwanted contents, or even
in original un-processed titles. As example it may happen, in
titles taking two DVDs, to have the initial PGC of the second
DVD filled with "fake" chapters, just in order to let the display
of the standalone player to show a chapter number coherent
(i.e. higher) with the chapters of the first DVD. See
the following situation happened to a guy in the Rebuilder forum:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=106337

I am not sure if the condition happens when these cells have
a different Vob Id respect to the other or always, whenever the
initial cell(s) just have no audio.

In any case the suggestion is to demux by Vob ID.

The "right" way to know the a/v delay into these "anomalous"
conditions is to use VobEdit.

You should be able to "see" the initial cells (VOB ID and Cell ID
values in the navigation packs). Go to the first navigation pack
of the first cell having some audio contents. Get the Value of the
Vobu Start Presentation Time. Go to the first audio pack and get the
PTS (Presentation Time) of the audio.

Since both values are represented in 90 KHz "ticks", the a/v delay in ms.
for the cell you are looking at is (Audio PTS - Vobu Start PTS)/90.

Of course the same "desynch" problem holds for the subtitles...

Cheers
SD

sorry i'm a beginner

you're right i have some parts with no audio at the beginning, these chapters are 1 to 4, is it possible juste to remove them ?
also in ifoedit when i open the video_ts.ifo i have 3 titles, they all begin by vts 01_* only the title 2 is the movie i want, can i remove the other titles ?


how can i now what cell has audio ?
in vobedit i have [navigation pack] [vob:1] [cell...] so i can never see what cell it is how can i do ?

thx

[Sir Didymus]

Hem...

My little suggestion is to start with PgcEdit. It is a wanderful application which includes a trace function, that is very easy to use, it is very powerful, and it is not difficult to learn. It have a rich help and a preview function allowing to play, in a given program chain, the single cells. You may (eventually) remove the initial unwanted cells from the program chains, making these cells unreferenced. Look at the Ifo Editing forum. There are also guides and other valuable information there about PgcEdit.

Then you may use VobBlanker to completely remove the unreferenced contentent from your title.

The problem is that the situation you are facing may be present into a title where it is not a good idea to remove the initial cells. Sometimes it is very useful or necessary, sometimes it may be totally wrong...

[the phoenix]

the part i want to remove are warnings so i don't think it's a prblem to remove them no ?

[the phoenix]

and how do you explain that when i demux the length of the movie if i open it with mediaplayerclassic is 50 min when the movie last 3h07'

[the phoenix]

i finally managed to remove the cells i didn't want, using vobblanker if i remember. so now the audio sync is good with 0ms.
now i have to work on subs