IVTC Question/Need Help...

[Nealhon]

Hi, I'm capping/encoding (capping at 29.970 FPS and encoding at 23.976 FPS) "One Piece" off of Cartoon Network via satellite and am having a hard time getting rid of some interlacing. I'm getting anywhere from 15-25 scenes where the entire scene is interlaced. I'd say 90% of it occurs when there isn't anything moving except for the person's mouth. That is... this is what happens when I use Decomb and TIVTC.

I've looked on the forums and have tried all of the settings mentioned I could find in the related area... but they either produce the same results, or make the image look bad (not just the part that was ilaced, but a lot of the scenes that were okay to being with).

I have gone through different different motion areas on the cap and have noticed that they are 3:2. I've been just using a deinterlacer on the whole episode and then sharpening it with warp sharp to make the interlace into more of a ghost look, but I don't like doing that...

So I'd like to find out if there are any ways/settings that'll elimate the interlace, leave the good frames alone, and make it easy to where I don't have to manually correct each bad frame. Anybody have anything I could try... and do you guys need a sample? If so, how long of one... and what of... the cap or the encode?

~Thanks

[Revgen]

The method I use for Cartoons is to use TFM from the TIVTC.dll to IVTC and use TDeint/EEDI2 as a postprocessor. You can find them here. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=82264)

For TFF clips:

AssumeTFF()
interp = separatefields().selecteven().EEDI2(field=1)
deinted=tdeint(order=1,field=1,edeint=interp)
TFM(mode=1,order=1,clip2=deinted)
TDecimate(mode=1)

For BFF clips:

interp = separatefields().selecteven().EEDI2(field=0)
deinted = tdeint(edeint=interp,order=0,field=0)
tfm(clip2 = deinted,order=0)
TDecimate(mode=1)

If you still run into leftover interlaced frames then you can use TFM's override .txt file to correct it.

[Nealhon]

Thanks for the settings... I loaded them up and scrolled through a few parts that were interlaced on my other settings and now they aren't :) I'm encoding the episode again now with those settings and will let you know how it comes out. Thanks again for the help!

[Nealhon]

Okay so after it finished encoding I watched bits and pieces of it... from what I saw, most of the interlacing/ghosting is gone, but not all. It is however a lot better than other settings I have tried. The thing though that I didn't like that those settings did were they made panning scenes quite choppy. Big chops too from time to time. They weren't there (played smoothly) with the other settings... so anyone have any ideas of what I could try now to get rid of the panning choppiness?

[Nealhon]

Okay well after watching the whole episode I noticed a few different things. First of all, only a couple panning scenes were jerky... the others played smooth. Also about the interlacing... there's actually more with these settings it seems like. It's deinterlaced a different way making it not as apparent, but there is still quite a bit of it. Anyone else have some settings I can try? TIA

[Revgen]

What kind of cartoon are you working with? Are you working with one of those cartoons that combines traditional animation with CGI scenes. I've seen some of these on Cartoon Network. If so, then it's probably a hybrid, and it would look slow at 23.976FPS when there is any panning going on in the CGI scenes.

[Nealhon]

I'm not really sure what CGI scenes are, but I do know this needs to be encoded to 23.976 FPS. It's a fairly old anime (like 6-7 years I think) but it is just coming to the states. When I just used Decomb with Decimate and adjusted settings to make it 23.976 FPS, the panning was just fine. Still mainly just trying to eliminate interlaced frames cause like I said that jerkiness is only on a few pans with the settings. Perhaps the interlacings are caused by dropped frames and therefore messing the pattern up or something? I usually average 15-20 drops per 30 minutes captured.

[foxyshadis]

Curious, but do you use VirtualDub 1.6.12? It includes a number of new capture sync fixes and changes that should reduce the number of drop frames. (Unless they come from stressed hardware.) A drop frame in the wrong place could definitely cause it, to see if that's the case go to one of those jerky pans in the source and look at the info for each frame for [D].

[Nealhon]

I actually use VirtualDub 1.5.10. I'll have to try out VirtualDub 1.6.12 and see if it'll work better for me. As for the dropped frames, there are two on panning scenes, but only one of them on the outputted/encoded video is giving me jerkiness. Also about 1/2 of the dropped frames are on commercials... and most of the interlacing comes up when there haven't been dropped frames for a while.

[Nealhon]

Okay well I tried VirtualDub 1.6.12 and capped about 20 minutes and it said frames dropped = 0, but then right under that it said frames inserted = 13. "Frames inserted" wasn't on VDub 1.5.10... so I opened up the capture file and hit "}" to see if it reported any drops... and sure enough all of those "frames inserted" are brought up as frames dropped. So I suppose that's a hardware problem. Still yet though I don't believe the drops are causing the pattern to go wrong and therefore creating quite a bit of interlacing because like I said before, a lot of the interlacing is appearing in places that do not have dropped frames.

Any more settings anyone?

[Revgen]

Have you tried figuring out whether the surviving interlaced frames are BFF frames? If so, then they would not have been processed by TFM. Sometimes rogue BFF frames will appear in TFF sources.

Try my BFF script I posted above and see if these particular frames remain interlaced. If so then you need to create an override .txt file for TFM to specify these as BFF frames.

If the frames are still interlaced, then an overrided .txt file specifying these frames as interlaced frames needs to be made.

[Nealhon]

I see. I'll give all of that a try then (yeah, I used TFF and not BFF so I'll try that first). Thanks for the tips.

[Nealhon]

Well I tried those settings for BFF and checked out a few of the scenes that had ilace in the TFF settings... and the interlace is still there in the BFF settings. I'll have to look into making that override .txt file cause I've never done that. I'll let you know how it comes out.

[Nealhon]

Hmm just got done experimenting some more. I used your settings for TFF except I changed how it decimated. Here's what I used:

AssumeTFF()
interp = separatefields().selecteven().EEDI2(field=1)
deinted=tdeint(order=1,field=1,edeint=interp)
TFM(mode=1,order=1,clip2=deinted)
Decimate()

I used Decomb's Decimate feature instead of TDecimate and it produced only 2-3 scenes with interlace... whereas all of the other settings I have tried produced anywhere from 15-30. I can settle for this :) so thanks for the settings once again. However I did only test these on 1 episode so we'll have to see how they work on the next few eps.

[Chainmax]

If your capture doesn't have severe chroma issues (color bands, lots of rainbowing), try this:

TFM(mode=6,PP=7,slow=2,mChroma=true,chroma=true)
TDecimate(mode=1)

It should be faster and avoid leftover combing.

[Nealhon]

I'll give those settings a try Chainmax. It does have rainbowing and color bands and whatnot throughout parts of the episode... but I don't believe it's my fault cause I'm capping it via satellite hooked up to my PC with S-Video for video and RCA for audio... which means it shouldn't be my fault, right?

[Revgen]

... which means it shouldn't be my fault, right?

Not unless you have a really bad S-Video cable.

Chainmax's settings will actually be slower since slow=2 and mode=6 are more complicated. They may cleanup the remaining frames, but the higher the mode setting is the higher the chance of the video being jerky or TFM creating duplicate frames. PP=7 also doesn't look as good as EEDI2 when deinterlacing cartoons.

Try it out and see if it works for you, hopefully you get no jerky video.

[Nealhon]

I tried out Chainmax's settings and I got quite a few interlaced frames (a lot more so then your settings Revgen).

As for my S-Video cable I have a Monster brand one. I've heard from other people that they are right up there with the top notch ones.

[Revgen]

That monster cable shouldn't be the problem. It's most likely the satellite service.

Anyhoo, you should try using some derainbow filters described in this thread. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102162)

[[MA]Debito]

From my experience, I've found an avisynth plugin called "IT" to be the most effect against pretty much any NTSC source. It's very simple and does all the work for ya!

Here's a sample script:


Mpeg2Source("C:\YourD2V.d2v")

Crop(8,0,-4,0,align=True)

Lanczos4Resize(640,480)

IT(fps = 24, ref = "TOP", blend = true)


You can get the Filter at:
http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/files/it_25_dll_20030712.zip (IT Plugin for AviSynth 2.5 and Higher)

The translated readme is at:
http://www.avisynth.org/IT.txt.en

[Chainmax]

That monster cable shouldn't be the problem. It's most likely the satellite service.

Anyhoo, you should try using some derainbow filters described in this thread. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102162)

Just keep in mind that now I recommend to use this SmartSSIQ mod by foxyshadis (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=748304&postcount=26) which needs SSIQ (http://yatta.mellbin.org/misc/).

[Nealhon]

Hi, me again... with these settings:

AssumeTFF()
interp = separatefields().selecteven().EEDI2(field=1)
deinted=tdeint(order=1,field=1,edeint=interp)
TFM(mode=1,order=1,clip2=deinted)
Decimate()

I have nearly 0 interlaced frames... but quite a bit of the panning scenes are pretty choppy. Anybody know what I should change with these settings to get rid of the choppiness, but still keep it where it won't show up any interlaced frames?

Thanks guys!

P.S. Chainmax, I haven't tried out that stuff to get rid of the rainbowing yet, but I'll work on it as soon as I can get this IVTC'd like how I want it.

[foxyshadis]

It might be VFR, in which case there's no way to make a clean and smooth CFR conversion (yet). Enable hybrid processing on decimate with mode=3 (or tdecimate with hybrid=1) and if you get blends on the pans, you definitely have 30p pans. You can either live with jerks, blends, or see other ways to deal with it on the VFR page (http://www.avisynth.org/VariableFrameRateVideo).

[Nealhon]

Well the thing is I can get them playing smooth when I only use Decomb settings... but when I only use Decomb settings, it creates quite a few interlaced frames.