documentation help requested for new mediawiki

[Richard Berg]

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki

I'd like to eventually phase out the current wiki. It's inferior in basically every way. Some features I think will be especially helpful for us:
- multiple languages of the same page
- file uploading (for images AND scripts)
- categories
- subpages (will make huge pages like the FAQ much easier to edit)
- discussion pages

This is a big undertaking, of course. If we decide to drive it to completion it will require everything from high-level doc reorganization to a logo that fits in the upper left correctly. Let me know what I can do to help. For instance, it wouldn't be too hard to write a webpage similar to http://www.richardberg.net/bin/convert.html that converts 'TaviWiki formatting to MediaWiki.

Nevertheless, there are a lot of conceptual differences in MediaWiki that don't translate directly and will influence the structure of the new site. User's Guide: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_User's_Guide

edit: Wilbert

We are looking for volunteers to port (copy and paste plus some small changes) the documentation from the old wiki on avisynth.org to our new mediawiki. If you want to help, please respond to this article.

Another thread with some info: ttp://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=105417.

[Wilbert]

I think it would be nice. Too bad it's much work :( I think we just need a bunch of volunteers (say 4-6 people) who are willing to help me.

[stickboy]

I'm willing to help out. I had been wanting to do some reorganization anyway but never had gotten around to doing it.

BTW, is there anything different that would make it easier to keep the offline AviSynth documentation synchronized with the online wiki pages?

[foxyshadis]

I'd been wanting to make a 'Didee's scripts' section, now I can just make a category for them. :p

It will be so nice to have tables of contents generated automatically!

If you want I have several eye-pleasing themes. (Not mine, culled from mediawiki's site mostly and modified for mine.) Or I could throw something together matching the current documentation's style, but I was hoping that would get an update from the new site rather than vice versa. ;)

If you want my help I'll be available.

[Richard Berg]

BTW, is there anything different that would make it easier to keep the offline AviSynth documentation synchronized with the online wiki pages?
Maybe. Some ideas here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Alternative_parsers

For all I know it could be done just by clever scripting of wget. (edit) The idea would be to enumerate just the article pages, append "&printable=yes" to each, then download being sure to grab necessary CSS & images.

If you want I have several eye-pleasing themes...
Sounds nice. Anywhere we can preview them?

----

Note: in addition to images, I've enabled "avs" "avsi" and "dll" as valid extensions for file uploads. I may need to restrict this permission to certain people in the future, but for now it's wide open. Speaking of which, once I configure the permissions model, Wilbert won't need to ask me every time a link in the left frame needs to be updated ;)

[mg262]

Wilbert,

Can I ask how you are thinking of going about things? Is the idea to move all the old content and then start editing, or to use it as source material in creating something a bit better organised? Is it okay to add things to the new Wiki, or should that wait till more framework is in place? Is it okay to start discussion page(s)?

I don't have any experience with Wikis. In principle I'd like to help, but I'm not sure how much use I'll be. I don't have a keyboard and everything is done through speech recognition; maybe it'll work fine with Wikiing, maybe not... I'd have to play with it for several hours to tell.

[Wilbert]

I propose we discuss about a possible reorganization first. I would like to hear the ideas that stickboy has. Perhaps other people have ideas too. After that we can divide the work and start copy-paste-and-correct-it :) Perhaps using one of Richard's parsers is easier, but i didn't look at that yet.

@mg262,
I don't have a keyboard and everything is done through speech recognition
Really? That's incredible. If you can code this way, and think you can also edit wikis this way :) Of course you can just try and see.

[mg262]

I'd definitely like to try. Is it okay if I try to create a page (maybe my user page) and play with it?

Thoughts...

It would be nice to have a page for each category of filters... e.g. Denoisers, Deinterlacers, Inverse Telecine Filters, Derainbowing Filters, Sharpeners. (IMO, the idea of including both scripts and filters is great... but I'll use the word filter for simplicity.) They could include a description of the nature of that kind of filter, small before/after pictures, a comprehensive list of filters of that type, and maybe a short discussion of the kind of artefacts that can arise from the filter. We could also organise filters by author, but that seems less pressing. Then a main 'Filters' page could link to the summary pages for each category?

I would say the FAQ contains too much in its current format. Better to move as much information as possible to pages with descriptive names... including the suggestion above, but also e.g. a page on YV12, a page on audio, a page on colourspaces, etc.

[iradic]

if you need help send me e-mail or pm, mail better

bye

[foxyshadis]

I'm torn on whether to use categories or not. On the one hand, you don't have to bother keeping separate pages in sync with any new stuff you add, but on the other hand, category implementation is kind of lame (3-column format only, no descriptive text). In the end lists like we have now is probably a better way to go, although if we do try to catch up and add more filters/scripts the filter categories will definitely deserve their own page.

Clouded, you can always write the page and add formatting in another mode, or have someone else do it. Twiddling is easy, it's the content-writing that's tough. (But would that mean no more weekly new filter releases? Oh, the horror! xD)

Richard, do you have any protection against spam-bots? I don't know if mediawiki has any specialized plugins enabled. Oh, and I totally missed your question on the skins, so sorry! Meta skins (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gallery_of_user_styles#FratMan) has quite a few, that one links to my favorite (Fratman, although the 1.5 version is more "sanitized" into mediawiki's logo & colors). But there's other neat ones in there as well.

Ugh, I've got to clear my head so I can conentrate.

[mg262]

Could we have both categories and pages with lists? So that e.g. there would be a category Denoisers, a manually written page on Denoisers, and an automatically generated page List of Denoisers. The two pages could link to each other appropriately.

I just found an example here... Category:Cultural movements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cultural_movements) contains the text

A cultural movement is a change in the way a number of different disciplines approach their work. This embodies all art forms, the sciences, and philosophies.

The main article for this category is Cultural movements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_movements).
followed by an automatically generated list.

Edit:
foxyshadis,
other way round... I needed to relearn to code this way and for sanity's sake I needed a domain where a very short program could have a satisfying effect (small effort, big reward :)). That's why I started coding AVISynth filters in the first place. But it's counterintuitive... C++ keywords (for, class, template) and STL types and methods (vector, map, iterator, begin) are English words, and the main punctuation symbols (brackets and semicolons) occur frequently in English text. Raw HTML, containing things like "</p>" is extremely hard to write. But I can definitely manage continuous prose!

[Wilbert]

I copy and pasted the main page to get started. Perhaps it's better to keep some of the discussion here, so that all people can give their input?

@mg262,

I'm not convinced categories are that useful. Consider the (possible) category plugins for example. Sure it's nice that lists can be automatically generated, but i think it's better if the names are accompanied by a short description (just as in the off line documentation). I'm not completely sure, but i think that's not possible in that case.

[mg262]

I'm not attached to the auto generated lists at all... actually I forgot they existed until I read foxyshadis's post. What I was originally suggesting/asking for was that we have a manually written page for each kind of filter (e.g. Denoisers) rather than having one huge list as in the current Wiki.

[Looking back, I rather unfortunately wrote this: "It would be nice to have a page for each category of filters..." without realising the word category had a technical meaning... I just meant kind/type/etc.]

[Wilbert]

I'm not attached to the auto generated lists at all... actually I forgot they existed until I read foxyshadis's post. What I was originally suggesting/asking for was that we have a manually written page for each kind of filter (e.g. Denoisers) rather than having one huge list as in the current Wiki.
Yes, i agree. We should remove for example the external plugins from the faq (idem for the utilities), use the existing types (make/add new ones if necessary) and move them to separate pages. Just as in the offline documentation.

[mg262]

Sounds good! I just looked at the categories in the docs... here they are for convenience:

General info
Deinterlacing & Pulldown Removal
Spatio-Temporal Smoothers
Spatial Smoothers
Temporal Smoothers
Sharpen/Soften
Resizers
Subtitle (source)
MPEG Decoder (source)
Audio Decoder (source)
Compare video quality
Broadcast Video
Misc Plugins

I think we'll probably need quite a few more categories, especially of filters designed to remove particular artefacts (e.g. spots/scratches, rainbows). I was thinking that when I had a bit of time I might grab the list of filters on WarpEnterprises and try and classify them? Incidentally, I don't know what the difference between denoisers, smoothers and softeners is (and Sharpen/Soften contains no softeners!)... if there is one, could someone please enlighten me? (Interesting related discussion (http://videoprocessing.11.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=465))

Also, IMO it would be better to redesign the main page completely rather than trying to make incremental changes to this one... but I guess that even if everyone agrees with me it would make sense to leave that until we have a better idea of the overall organisation.

Is there an easy way to get a list of pages on the old site?

[communist]

a logo that fits in the upper left correctly.
Well its a start :)
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s304280/D9/avisynth_mod.png

[Richard Berg]

Is there an easy way to get a list of pages on the old site?
There's a macro that can be used for this. Here, I'll put one up: http://www.avisynth.org/AllPages

[mg262]

:thanks:

[Pookie]

Here's how the Anime folks posted their AviSynth scripts on their Wiki.

http://www.amvwiki.org/index.php/Category:AVISynth_Scripts

http://www.amvwiki.org/index.php/Please_Teacher%21_Processing

[Wilbert]

I need some help :)

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Internal_filters

lists filters in different types. One such filter is Blur:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Blur

Making the category 'Internal filters' (adding: [[Category:Internal filters]] to all filter descriptions) a category is made with all filters (sorted on alphabet):

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Category:Internal_filters

Ok, good. The problem is Sharpen and Blur are on the same page. So, I thought let's make a redirect from Sharpen to Blur:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Sharpen

But Sharpen is still not listed in the Category page:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Category:Internal_filters

Is this solvable?

[Richard Berg]

I added the [[Category]] macro to the Sharpen page. That seems to have worked. Note that you have to put it on the same line as the Redirect or it'll be deleted (see here (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Redirect#Creating_a_redirect)).

[Wilbert]

Note that you have to put it on the same line as the Redirect or it'll be deleted.
Ah, i tried to put it on the next line, and it was deleted :) Thanks!

[mg262]

Wilbert,

I was looking at this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=765974#post765974) and the immediate reply (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=766000#post766000) again; can I ask whether you are planning to have a page per filter?

(FWIW, some thoughts:

+
-- Allows Wikification of AVISynth scripts and script fragments
-- More information can be presented than on a list page
-- Allows non-essential information to be removed from the list page
-- Consistency of documentation (both consistency among filters and consistency between filters and scripts)
-- Improved documentation for filters which currently largely reside on forum threads (I'm def. guilty of this myself, esp. before I had an HTML editor :o )
-- Users can clarify the documentation or augment it with e.g. known issues, examples, additional uses, alternatives.

-
-- Risk of desynchronisation/creates upkeep work
-- Many pages will be stubs at first/much content to write
-- Risk of vandalism (?)
)

[Wilbert]

Wilbert,

I was looking at this post and the immediate reply again; can I ask whether you are planning to have a page per filter?
We can at least do this for some filters (most used and popular filters). Of course i see also the cons (that's why i started doing it for the offline documentation), but in the end it all depends on how much time it costs and how much people are willing to help.

Btw, i wouldn't worry about vandalism. Vandalism doesn't happen much, and if it happens it's very easy to revert it back.

[foxyshadis]

VFR update is done, lot of stuff added and a little trashed or moved around, so have at that one. Geez, that's a messy subject, but I guess I've sort of adopted it.

Richard, does your script ignore ! before words, as well as picking up BiCap words that don't have them? I haven't looked at it.

[edit] Also, have you started any templates? I don't know a lot about them, but I'll look into it; it seems for something like this they're almost required to keep formatting mess to a minimum.

[Wilbert]

I edited the main page again to make some improvements.

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Main_Page

In my opinion, two things needed special attention:

1) Accessibility to newbies. I got many complains that avisynth.org is not accessibility for newbies. So i added a special section for this. It should contain at least two things: (1) learn how to make basic scripts, and (2) give a basic overview of the possibilities of AviSynth.

2) Inaccessibility of certain subjects like syntax and related stuff. Those are buried to deep and not easy to find. So i added these subjects as a special section.

I also added the section "Filters, external plugins, script functions and utilities". That speaks for itself i think :)

The development section should be a bit more structured, but that's not important now. I'm also not happy with the Tips, because you don't know what it is about without looking :)

So, what do you think of it? Is it indeed more accessible for people who are new to AviSynth?

[Richard Berg]

It's better, but can be better still :) The AMV page on Avisynth is very good; we might borrow some of their ideas. I like having "your first script" on the main page, for instance.

I agree the "tips" section is junk.

@foxyshadis
Richard, does your script ignore ! before words, as well as picking up BiCap words that don't have them? I haven't looked at it.
That's because I haven't written it yet ;) (I've been working on MeGUI) Do you want BiCap words without '!' to become links by default?

Also, have you started any templates?
Don't know anything about them...

@mg232
-- Risk of desynchronisation/creates upkeep work
-- Many pages will be stubs at first/much content to write
What would be great is if stickboy, fizick, tsp, vion11, & others used a wiki-page as their main website. Mediawiki's features (especially file pages) should be good enough to handle everything they're currently using their avisynth.org webspace for. Hopefully Didee, Scharfi, etc. would follow suit.

[mg262]

Wilbert,

That new section is looking very nice.

I really think that there is too much material on the main page. It would be nice to try and keep nearly all the material on one screen, so you can reach any second level page in one click -- using two columns like Wikipedia would help, but also a lot of material is wordy: "External plugins for AviSynth v2.5x by some of our finest authors, organized here for your downloading pleasure."

Tips and guides is as noted silly as it stands, and it's not clear where it ends and advanced topics begins. Advanced topics is a productive category -- i.e. we can keep adding to it -- so IMO it doesn't belong on the front page, because potentially it can keep growing. Random musings is also unhelpful -- editor-stuff belongs in your new category, either under utilities or more probably as a 'Editor' link. The other languages we could just treat like Wiki pedia.

@Richard Berg
Do we have easily-accessible statistics on how often the different links from the main page are used? (I.e. if something is never clicked on, it may not belong on the main page.) Please don't go to a lot of trouble to get all of these if it's tricky.

Edit: how about having the main quick links at the top, as Wikipedia and AMV Wiki do? I rigged up something to show what I mean...

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/User:Clouded

(obviously the exact content will change; this is just to get an idea of the look)

[Richard Berg]

http://avisynth.org/awstats/cgi-bin/awstats.pl?config=avisynth.org

[Wilbert]

I cleaned up the main page and took Clouded suggestions into account. I think it's pretty good now, but we can always change things when needed.

I suggest we divide the workload. Perhaps Clouded can start (or continue :)) with the 'external plugins' section. foxyshadis, what do you want to do? Start with the script functions or help with the internal functions? I will start with the internal functions section, and the faq.

[foxyshadis]

I checked out templates, and it seems that they could be cajoled into styling properly, but you can't just define one template that enforces a style. (And could be swapped out for another.) I was hoping for something higher level. Still, I have been experimenting in my wiki and might have some useful attempts.

As for linking, there's quite a few accidental links (plus anything in <code> is unlinked). It'd probably just be better to compare to the original to see what makes sense for inclusion.

Wilbert, I'd be glad to start cleaning up and re-adding some of the script functions. I'll have to wait until tomorrow though.

[stickboy]

What would be great is if stickboy, fizick, tsp, vion11, & others used a wiki-page as their main website. Mediawiki's features (especially file pages) should be good enough to handle everything they're currently using their avisynth.org webspace for.I could give it a shot (my web page right is really basic), but what compelling reason is there to do so? Visual consistency?

[Richard Berg]

Main reason: to establish that putting such things on the wiki is easy -- and if you early adopters hit pain points, fix them -- in order to encourage lots more people to do the same. Right now too much knowledge is buried in 30-page threads. I've thought about giving the most prominent script writers web accounts like yours, so their creations can be put somewhere more discoverable, but I don't think they'd really get used; writing HTML & uploading it is annoying. Wikis should make it simpler, but the old/current one is very clumsy WRT script files (no way to upload; embedding in the page instead looks like shite; no organization to speak of), so again it sees poor participation. Having it automatically version files is of course a huge plus.

[mg262]

Richard,
thanks again!

@all,
Perhaps Clouded can start (or continue ) with the 'external plugins' section.
Wilbert was referring to this: it's very rough, but I figured we needed to start somewhere...

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/User:Clouded/Rough_Classification

(Not just plugins... it already includes a few script fns, and would have more if there were a list of them around.) It really isn't meant as a final model, just something to discuss. Feel free to take it apart or edit it into better shape. + Please keep an eye out for misclassifications... some of these I didn't find much info on.

Edit: By the way, Wilbert, do you think the internal filters should be added to that classification as well? (It would be relatively easy as I know what they all do.)

[gzarkadas]

Count me in :)

[Fizick]

What would be great is if stickboy, fizick, tsp, vion11, & others used a wiki-page as their main website.

Who will have write access to this pages?

[foxyshadis]

Right now everything uploaded seems to land under Image:, which means they'll be a little more difficult to link to and use. I'd like to be able to link directly to the script from info pages, rather than its cover page, but the only way I know of is hard linking and uploading a new version will break that (since it puts it into folders named for its hash). I don't think there's a natural way to do that, but one of us could make some modifications to the wiki codease.

would Script: be a good namespace for all of that?

[hanfrunz]

you can use [[Media:filename.ext]] to directly link to a file!

[Richard Berg]

Who will have write access to this pages?
I can restrict it if you like.

I believe I also have the ability to create other aliases (besides Media) for "image" hosting by editing config files instead of hacking the PHP.

[niiyan]

Can I add Japanese translations to new wiki pages?

[Wilbert]

Can I add Japanese translations to new wiki pages?
Sure, but i think it is better that you wait for a while. We just started and things might change in the beginning. I will contact you in time.

[niiyan]

OK. I have already translated about half of filters' documentations to Japanese. I'll put them to new wiki.

[Richard Berg]

foxyshadis asked about making the URL lookups case insensitive. Having Avisource & AviSource resolve to the same page sounded good. But it turns out to be trickier to implement than it sounds. This post (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-l/2005-September/007129.html) summarizes the current situation.

What we really need is to pick a naming convention. For example, here's Wikipedia's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Lowercase_second_and_subsequent_words
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28capitalization%29

[mg262]

On the preliminary classification (link in my signature)... I've received some very helpful PM's -- thank you to those concerned. A couple of things I want to make clear:

-- You are more than welcome to make changes, corrections.
-- This isn't meant to be a final page. The aim is to get sensible categories and subcategories, so that we can create appropriate pages (e.g. a page on restoration filters, or a page on deblockers).

And a couple of questions...
-- Thoughts on how we should subclassify denoisers? Stick with the old Spatial/Temporal/Spatiotemporal scheme, or something else? [I have no strong feelings on this issue.]
-- (Esp. to Wilbert) how NPOV are we trying to keep things? For example, this:http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=759778&highlight=tdeint+mvbob#post759778 would IMO be extremely helpful to a new user.

[Richard Berg]

I don't have a problem with quick-n-easy lists of "best" filters. Just use careful wording like Wikipedia does.

fact: The YUY2 colorspace uses 16 bytes per pixel.
opinion: Many people feel MvBob is the best filter for pure interlaced material. fact: It's certainly one of the slowest.

We could even have a dedicated page called "Current recommendations" or similar. Then if parts are debatable, use its talk-page.

[Soulhunter]

Thoughts on how we should subclassify denoisers? Stick with the old Spatial/Temporal/Spatiotemporal scheme, or something else?

Spatial, Temporal, TempoSpatial and perhaps "Special" for FFT or DCT based stuff!?

Btw, I followed ya suggestion and added a dozen filters + edited some stuff... ^^


Bye

[Wilbert]

I don't have a problem with quick-n-easy lists of "best" filters. Just use careful wording like Wikipedia does.

fact: The YUY2 colorspace uses 16 bytes per pixel.
opinion: Many people feel MvBob is the best filter for pure interlaced material. fact: It's certainly one of the slowest.

We could even have a dedicated page called "Current recommendations" or similar. Then if parts are debatable, use its talk-page.
I don't like that. It's very subjective and difficult to keep up to date. Not to mention that it depends on the source sometimes (think about denoisers). Imo, it's not up to us to rank the filters. Of course you can list advantages, disadvantages and bugs. Then people can make up their own mind.

[Richard Berg]

Ok, no rankings. We can definitely put up objective data, though. Things like speed, compressability gain/loss (for denoisers/sharpeners), features. On a similar note, feel free to upload lots of samples: "torture test" clips, filter comparisons, whatever. I bargained for a lot more space & bandwidth after the site went down in Dec, may as well use it :D

[foxyshadis]

Oooh, samples. Definitely put Didée's B5 torture test on there. :p It'd be very interesting to have screenshots of what denoisers do to a few "standard" mildly noisy and very noisy clips, later on.

As for names, I guess the only way is hack the code to insert a lot of strtolower()s, cross your fingers, and hope for the best, so.... not exactly a good plan. I guess that since every filter already has a known case (Pascal case being the most common by far), we should use that. Maybe even force Pascal case for all-lower-case ones. The old wiki generally Pascal-cased almost everything except a few wiki-style links, and I kind of like that, but with spaces so things look more like "proper" titles. But that's just my opinion.

ie, "Variable Frame Rate Video" instead of "VariableFrameRateVideo" or "Variable frame rate video". (Though I'm also going to link "VFR" to that one... ;))

[mg262]

Grrr... lost my reply. Briefly,

@Soulhunter: thank you for the suggestions, the changes and for pointing out the issue about naming conventions!

@Wilbert: should I include internal filters on the list?

@all: I'm worried that a list like this (however presented)...

Area
BlendBob
DGBob
FieldDeinterlace
GreedyHMA
InterpolationBob
KernelDeint
LeakKernelDeint
MVBob
SmoothDeinterlace
TDeint
TomsMoComp
(+ more when finished)

... will overwhelm a new user. Any thoughts on ways to alleviate this?

Also, I can think of three naming conventions for "restoration filter" subcategories:

1. Anti-aliasing, Rainbow and Dot crawl removal, Chroma correction, Deblocking, Deinterlacing, etc
2. Anti-aliasers, Rainbow and Dot crawl removers, Chroma correcters, Deblockers, Deinterlacers, etc
3. Aliasing, Rainbows & Dot crawl, Chroma errors, Blocks, interlacing

3. seems inappropriate (to me) but I have no preference between 1. and 2. ... or perhaps someone can think of something better?

[Richard Berg]

Even if we were able to hack the entire product, using some kind of StrLower would just cause problems with internationalization. Improving the Avisynth doc translation experience is a major goal, so I'm not going to compromise there. Also, as the developers mentioned in that email thread, you lose the ability to have a canonical case, i.e. you can't decide how the title should be displayed to the user.

My opinions (open to debate):

Avisynth keywords (anything that must be typed as a single word in the script language) that have >1 English word use CamelCase. Acronyms within the name stay uppercase. examples: GetLeftChannel; ShowSMPTE; DirectShowSource (not DirectshowSource -- "Directshow" is not an English word); Subtitle (not SubTitle)
Everything else split into normal sentences using Wikipedia conventions. examples: "Avisynth manual" (no "AviSynth" (http://virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=64) :p); "SmoothDeinterlace functions" (SmoothDeinterlace is a keyword); "Filters by Didee" (capitalize proper names)

[Richard Berg]

@mg262

We have to have a comprehensive list somewhere. If some pages become too newb-unfriendly, we can create other pages (or perhaps just sections) with "most common choices."

[mg262]

We have to have a comprehensive list somewhere.Definitely. (Anyway, I'm not masochistic enough to collate all these lists and then throw them away :p.) I was envisaging something like this:

Rainbow and dot crawl removal
1. Definition of rainbow/dot crawl + pictures
2. Brief explanation of causes
3. Descriptive text
4. Comprehensive list (perhaps annotated)

(2. is there because it allows an intelligent choice of filter ordering.)

3. is the vaguest of these sections, but it could contain information about e.g. the most popular filters or about filters that are well-suited to beginners (stable, few parameters/default parameters work well, reasonably effective on disparate sources). I wanted an idea of what you all think is appropriate/suitable in a section like this.

The above schema is just one possibility... please do suggest improvements or better schemata.

[Richard Berg]

I forgot to mention which names I liked -- was going to say #2, since I thought these would be relatively sparse pages (mostly just links to other pages). But now that I see you propose to illustrate the problem in detail, I like #1 better.

Your section layout looks great.

[Wilbert]

@Wilbert: should I include internal filters on the list?
No. Internal filters should be more bug-free than external filters, so there has to be a distinction between the two.

Also, I can think of three naming conventions for "restoration filter" subcategories:

1. Anti-aliasing, Rainbow and Dot crawl removal, Chroma correction, Deblocking, Deinterlacing, etc
Sounds good.

-- Thoughts on how we should subclassify denoisers? Stick with the old Spatial/Temporal/Spatiotemporal scheme, or something else?
Sounds good to me. Frankly, i have no idea about possible other classificatons :)


I was envisaging something like this:

Rainbow and dot crawl removal
1. Definition of rainbow/dot crawl + pictures
2. Brief explanation of causes
3. Descriptive text
4. Comprehensive list (perhaps annotated)

I agree that all this info should be on avisynth.org somewhere, but my only concern it is too much on a single page. Perhaps the pictures + explanation of causes should be on a separate page? I don't know ...

[mg262]

I was thinking of keeping 1. and 2. pretty compact, and using small pictures (maybe the same height as 8 lines of text). Pictures would be cropped to pick out the relevant effect, not resized. We could include links to pages with more detailed text or larger pictures. Real life is a bit busy at present, but when it calms down let me try and mock up a page? If you find it too crowded, we can try something else.

Incidentally, may I use text from the analog capture guide?

[Richard Berg]

I think a well-designed "rainbow & dot-crawl removal" page -- even if it includes a long list at the end -- will still be much friendly than, say, today's FAQ. With sections & subpages there's really no problem with long articles, so long as the most important information (i.e. what the majority of people who hit the page) is near the top.

[mg262]

If wanted, we could add quick links to all the filters at the top of the page quite compactly.
The full set of filters may be too cumbersome to fit on a single page, but we could have a compact index page for each large category -- e.g. list all Restoration filters.


See http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/User:Clouded for examples of both of these -- I don't actually like the look of these examples, but they convey the idea.

[Wilbert]

@Richard,

I want to add some math to one of the pages:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Levels

<math>x^2</math>

should work, but doesn't. Could you give some help?

[hanfrunz]

@Richard,

I want to add some math to one of the pages:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Levels

<math>x^2</math>

should work, but doesn't. Could you give some help?
did you install all that LaTex-stuff?

EDIT: Have a look here Troubleshooting_math_errors (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Troubleshooting_math_errors)

[Wilbert]

Ah, I didn't realise that Richard needed to install all that stuff :) It's not necessary to bother with that, so i will change it.

[Wilbert]

@Richard,

The site is being mass spammed (gay sites) by a single person. You can see it when you edit pages. Is it possible to disallow him access?

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Special:Recentchanges

[Richard Berg]

I banned several IPs but not all -- there are lots of them. I also gave admin rights to Wilbert. I may limit edits to registered users if the problem persists.

Just upgraded to MediaWiki 1.5.8. I'm installing the math library now.

[Wilbert]

I banned several IPs but not all -- there are lots of them. I also gave admin rights to Wilbert. I may limit edits to registered users if the problem persists.

Just upgraded to MediaWiki 1.5.8. I'm installing the math library now.
So we can use LaTex? Great, thx very much!

[Richard Berg]

Well, I've discovered I don't have the rights to compile anything :angry: so it may be awhile.

[foxyshadis]

What OS does the server run? gcc can compile to alternate targets (--target), although I don't know how easy or difficult it is; it might require compiling an alternate linker.

[Richard Berg]

It's a small hosting company run by folks I know from another message board...it'll get taken care of.

[Wilbert]

I may limit edits to registered users if the problem persists.
Could you do that for a month or so? This moron doesn't stop spamming. I have more stuff to do than revert 20 edits a day :)

[Richard Berg]

Done.

[foxyshadis]

Is there any chance that new page creation can be unrestricted for normal registered users yet? Right now I guess it's admin-only, though I can still edit pages.

[Richard Berg]

That was a mistake -- I upgraded to 1.6.x a few days ago. Apparently this version has a separate 'createpage' permission, but since I just copied over my old settings I wasn't granting it to anyone. Should work now.

[foxyshadis]

1.6? Sweet, new templates!

*Must resist temptation to tweak madly instead of doing something useful*

[foxyshadis]

Richard, I was wondering if you could add something to common.css or the individual style css?


pre { border: 1pt solid #999; padding: .8em 1.2em; margin: .5em 0; color: #039;white-space: pre; font-size: .9em; font-family: monospace; overflow: auto; }


Several attempts to replicate this through a template failed because wiki adds random <p> tags into the included text. The main reason I'd rather not stick with the default <pre> behavior is that it's impossible to differentiate examples from the descriptions. The border's a frill that doesn't need to be there, if you prefer.

[Wilbert]

@foxyshadis,

You can move all your plugin/script stuff to:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/External_plugins

Feel free to change the layout if you think it's not good. I think it's important that a user knows whether its a plugin or script (usually plugins will have a higher processing speed), so that's why i added that.

[foxyshadis]

Oh neat, I didn't know you moved it. That looks like a good idea, adding description. I'd probably just make the script/plugin designation the beginning of the description, then perhaps definition list would be a better medium for them:
; filter : description

With a little javascript magic you could allow descriptions to be turns on/off that way, but I'll not get too far ahead of myself. ;)

[Gerard V]

I'm able to help out with a few hours of work on this. Is there anything a relative noob can do to help you? I have mucked about with AviSynth for about 6 months now, mainly with DV and HDV material. I'm not much of an expert but I am a reasonably good writer and willing to find out what I dont know. If you start me on something at the shallow end I'll do a good job.

[foxyshadis]

A couple of things that could help are:

rewriting some of the outdated parts (I think wilbert already largely updated the FAQ)
writing documentation for external filters/scripts that have none
rewriting or clarifying confusing docs or extending them with useful tips
condensing some of the useful threads into entries (eg, denoising comparisons, film-look, etc)
giving it a more coherent organization to find stuff more easily
designing a better logo... the list goes on!

yes, this was a gratuitous excuse to use a vbb list...

Hey, a wiki page on "How you can contribute to wiki" sounds like a great idea to keep everyone updated. :p

[Gerard V]

So, just be be sure I'm tackling something that is of use, if I document any of the filters listed on here (http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Special:Wantedpages), that would be useful? If so I'll start with something easy like WavSource and go from there.

[Wilbert]

It would be nice if you can work on the following:
writing documentation for external filters/scripts that have none

old script page:
* http://www.avisynth.org/ShareFunctions

old external plugin pages:
* http://www.avisynth.org/Section+3%3A+Filters%2C+plugins+and+colorspaces#q3.5
* http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84481
* off-line docs

new script / external plugin page:
http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/External_plugins

So, if you could add short descriptions of external plugins (as done for DGDecode for example) that would be great (including links where to find the plugins). Adding complete descriptions is fine too (as done for Masktools for example) but has a low priority.

[foxyshadis]

So, just be be sure I'm tackling something that is of use, if I document any of the filters listed on here (http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Special:Wantedpages), that would be useful? If so I'll start with something easy like WavSource and go from there.
Watch out, capitalization errors will probably show up on there, because the link to WAVSource should be WavSource. Currently there's no quick & simple way to discern the canon capitalization, but running a search helps narrow it down. Everything internal to 2.5x is documented.

[Wilbert]

That's a useful page you have there! I will use that to fix all links that already exist.

[Gerard V]

Wilbert. - OK, thats clear. I'll have a go at some of that in the next couple of weeks.

I think I gleaned from the prior postings that I'll not be able to edit the WIKI directly. Whats the preferred option at this stage for submitting material?

[foxyshadis]

Richard dealt with that; as long as you sign up for an account, you can edit anything you need to (except admin pages, obviously).

[Gerard V]

Here's a first draft - still to be proofed and tweaked. Is this in line with expectations? Critique welcome. Also - where's the capitalisation standard defined, and did I get this one right?

Edited - I've put it online for now.
New Page DGBob (http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/DGBob)

[smokeslikeapoet]

Not a whole lot of action. I got a few external plugins done this week but it looks like editing is pretty stagnant.

[Wilbert]

I'm very busy in PL (got a new job/appartment). So except for the weekend i don't have much time to do anything. My current project is updating the faq.

edit: i saw you already started on some external plugin descriptions. That's great!

[Si]

Is there a guide (simple obviously :-) ) on how to edit this new wiki - I started transferring SimpleSample stuff but can't work out how to format it properly (well at all actually:confused: )

regards
Simon

[foxyshadis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing

This is the main jump-off point, there's a comprehensive list of basic formatting and sidebar and bottom links to further information. The really advanced information is scattered all over mediawiki and wikipedia (a real pain), but you won't need that.

[smokeslikeapoet]

Maybe a template for external filters would be in order. You know, a general format for required information, like download location, author, license, and general description, and then optional information like usage examples and advanced usage. If there was a standardized format It would be very easy for people like me to convert readme files and forum anouncements to wiki documentation.

[Si]

Thanks

The simple way to just put in a page of code (or any other text) is to use
<pre>
at the start of the page and then it doesn't try and interpret characters as Wiki format instructions :-)

regards
Simon

[foxyshadis]

A major Tikiwiki exploit has been found and is being actively exploited. I think the old wiki should be immediately shut down, or these steps taken before avisynth.org is hacked:
http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=136

If it isn't tikiwiki, I apologize, and ignore this.

[Richard Berg]

The old wiki is tavi.sourceforge.net. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Fizick]

Recently we start discussion with niiyan and Wilbert, what is avisynth documentation license?
GNU GPL or it is better switch it to GNU free documentation license? ( with all contributors permission.)
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=913797#post913797
I stay for GPL.

Today I discover this words in my local copy of avisynth MediWiki :
"Content is available under Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5."
it is one of documentation licenses suggested by CreativeCommons.org.
They are often used for Wiki, yes, in various variants.
(other popular is GNU Free Documentaion License, used by wikipedia for example)

But when and why Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 was set as a avisynth mediawiki license?
By the way, it is legally not compatible with GNU GPL.
So, we can not mix documentation and move text from one to other.

May be put avisynth documentation to mediwiki as not-editable, and under GNU GPL.
Users must have permission to comment, discuss, talk about these pages only.
May be we will get more response so way (people do not risk to edit official pages now :)

7. Final (main) question. I hope, avisynth.grg will be available soon.
But may be simply forget about mediawiki? It is almost empty and I do not see volonters to support 3 types of docu.
:(
May be it is possible to upgrade old WiKi? or automatically trasfer its content to mediawiki?
(after resolving license issue).

EDIT: Oops, today I discover tha mediawiki was not empty but almost full (231 files or more)! Sorry.

[Wilbert]

May be put avisynth documentation to mediwiki as not-editable, and under GNU GPL.
No, both are a bad idea. GPL maybe allowed for documentation, but i think it's a bad idea because GPL is not really a documentation license.

Users must have permission to comment, discuss, talk about these pages only.
No, bad idea. The old situation was that they have to login, because some people spammed those paged. Imo, that is the preferred situation.

But may be simply forget about mediawiki? It is almost empty and I do not see volonters to support 3 types of docu.
There are two types of docu. The old wiki is not supported anymore and will be disbanded when everything is transferred to Mediawiki. I'm sure you know that this is the intent. I just don't have enough time anymore to do this within a reasonable time frame (and yes i very much appreciate your help!).

As for the license of the documentation. The documents were never licensed, so they were just copyrighted. Afaik, they were not under GPL, despite what you think. Release the source under the GPL, doesn't mean that the corresponding documentation is GPL. So, this 'Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5' was strictly not legal. Mistakes can happen and perhaps Richard never thought about issues like this.

I think the ideal situation is to put it under the 'GNU free documentation license' or use no license at all.

[Fizick]

"just copyrigted" work con not be copied and distributed.
Official distribution is at sourceforge, with docs included.
(only GPL was stated at install).

Internal function decriptions and syntax.htm are certainly GPL.
(written by Ben, sh0dan, ...)

May be dual-licensing of some parts?

Interesting link:
http://embeddedlinux.movial.fi/index.php/ELinuxWiki:Policies_%26_Guidelines
and discussion:
http://tree.celinuxforum.org/pipermail/celinux-dev/2006-November/001367.html

[niiyan]

But when and why Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 was set as a avisynth mediawiki license?

I don't know when and why.
But when I first looked at mediawiki, it has been already under Creative Commons License (by-nc-sa).
And it is one of the reasons I changed licence of Japanese AviSynth Wiki to Creative Commons, because Japanese AviSynth Wiki includes translation pages from mediawiki and the license requires "ShareAlike".

The old wiki is not supported anymore and will be disbanded when everything is transferred to Mediawiki.

Do you think it is better to make the old wiki uneditable when it is back?
If it is not supported anymore, there is no need to be edited by anyone incl. spammers;)

[Fizick]

...
BTW, is there anything different that would make it easier to keep the offline AviSynth documentation synchronized with the online wiki pages?

What is the way to sync them?
Suppose, IanB added some nice feature, he updated the feature.cpp and feature.htm at CVS tree (I am sure he works offline and will not update WiKi :) )

Suppose, the feature.wiki was previously updated by some brave man who know avisynth better than IanB :)

How these changes will be in sync?

My opinion: internal functions (and syntax) must be read-only at wiki.

[foxyshadis]

7. Final (main) question. I hope, avisynth.grg will be available soon.
But may be simply forget about mediawiki? It is almost empty and I do not see volonters to support 3 types of docu.

I find mediawiki by far the most accessible of the different modes of documentation. I would actually go so far as to prefer mediawiki as the first and only source of all official documentation changes. (What is the word for that?)

Why would avisynth docs be non-commercial? Avisynth itself allows commercial use, after all, so they should be in sync. And my personal view is that very basic avisynth script reference has no need to be under any kind of restrictive, gnu-style license, because there's no way to use it without. (And if you release a video encoded with avisynth, having used the documentation, are you required to then post your script and the full avisynth documentation next to the video?) I've never seen a script released under any kind of license, because the only people who actually care about guarding their "secret scripts" are a handful of paranoid fansubbers, and there's no way to compile scripts into binary (unless they're compiled right into a C program). The general intent of people like Didée when releasing scripts has always seemed to be releasing into the public domain, even if that isn't explicit.

Since you guys decided on GPL for simplesample, then the source code in wiki topics on creating plugins should presumably also be GPL. (I disagree with GPL for code and api samples, but I guess that isn't my business.)

[Wilbert]

"just copyrigted" work con not be copied and distributed.
Sure it can. The copyright holders (of the documentation) can do whatever they want (and we all agreed silently upon allowing copying and distribution of the documentation).

Official distribution is at sourceforge, with docs included.
(only GPL was stated at install).
Just because you see GPL during install, or that the docs are hosted as sourceforge, doesn't make them GPL. One of the reasons is that GPL is *meant* for code and not for documentation (although apparently it is allowed according to fsf, but i bet most people don't know that).

If we want to license the documentation, we should start a discussion about it. Like foxyhadis i'm not in favor of it, since i don't see yet why it should be necessary or advantageous.

Internal function decriptions and syntax.htm are certainly GPL.
(written by Ben, sh0dan, ...)
Nope, they are not. See above.

What is the way to sync them?
Suppose, IanB added some nice feature, he updated the feature.cpp and feature.htm at CVS tree (I am sure he works offline and will not update WiKi )

Suppose, the feature.wiki was previously updated by some brave man who know avisynth better than IanB

How these changes will be in sync?

My opinion: internal functions (and syntax) must be read-only at wiki.
I disagree with this. Besides, while IanB edits the offline docs, i know that Sh0dan and Richard always edit the online docs first. Usually i copy and paste all the stuff back and forth when necessary. Yes, it's not ideal, but i prefer this because other people make corrections to the online docs too and i don't want to make this impossible. I think high quality docs is more important than 100% synchronization.

[Fizick]

Wilbert,
From GPL license text:

0. This License applies to any program or other work ....


Of course, you may give to us some additional permissions with updated or additional license. :)

It is hard for me to work with wiki (i work mostly off-line).
Anyway, I will try contribute and will ask stupid question under license terms your choice! :)

By the way, what version did you use as a base version of docs at mediawiki?
v2.56? some beta v2.57? or some alpha v2.6?
And what version must (will) be at mediwiki?
Latest current beta? or latest official ? or both?

Foxishadis,
FilterSDK was not at mediawiki (and so it is not under new license.)
Probably you are right about users-added part.
Some simpler "attribution" license like CreativeCommons.org "by"-license or BSD, X11, MIT license?
But please ask Didee's permission to place his script anyway :)

And I do not remember what I said about license terms of my plugins documentation. ;)

[PaulKroll]

Has there been any consideration of replicating the Wikipedia architecture, that is, having a squid cache in front of the Mediawiki pages? Mediawiki, directly accessed, is a CPU-drinking, database-beating dog. A powerful one, to be sure, but with anything resembling traffic, it'll bring a normal server to its knees.

[Richard Berg]

I'll worry about that when the time comes.

[partystar]

As for as I know MediaWiki has basic search functionality for all page content. However, uploaded files are not indexed.As shown by Wikipedia, MediaWiki is capable of handling very high traffic. There is no automated navigation within MediaWiki. Pages can be placed tagged with categories, which allow them to be listed on special category pages.There is a navigation box but editing it requires editing a configuration file on the file system and some other configuration.

[Fizick]

Richard Berg,
please kill spam robot at mediawiki

[Richard Berg]

I have implemented all of the spam suggestions from this page (http://wiki.evernex.com/index.php?title=Blocking_Spam_in_Mediawiki):
- block edits that try to hide spam in DIV tags
- block blank user agents
- block phony/suspicious user agents, referrers, and other HTTP patterns (bad-behavior (http://www.homelandstupidity.us/software/bad-behavior/))
- require CAPTCHA when registering new users and when adding new external links, except for sysops
- installed a blacklist of domains. It pulls the list from Wikimedia, plus sysops can add additional spam domains to this page (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Spam_Blacklist).

Anonymous users can edit pages again without registering. I'm optimistic these defenses will make registration unnecessary.

[gzarkadas]

I just edited the spam list as normal user and removed a blocked link, then succesfully entered a spam link in another page (see the wiki logs). As it is now the list can be easily tampered by a spammer.

[Fizick]

Richard, thanks for protection!

Can you set some new category of "trusted" (human) users to work without CAPTCHA?

I am not sure that anonymous edit is good.

Anyway, we need help for new mediawiki!

[Richard Berg]

I just edited the spam list as normal user and removed a blocked link, then succesfully entered a spam link in another page (see the wiki logs). As it is now the list can be easily tampered by a spammer.
Thanks for reminding me. It should be restricted to only sysops now.

In the past we got many valuable fixes from anonymous users. People do not like registering for random sites (me included). The anti-spam page linked above indicated their wiki gets no bot spam even with anonymous users allowed. I think the recent flood -- where every edit came from a different users -- showed that registration is not a good spam blocker at all.

Can you set some new category of "trusted" (human) users to work without CAPTCHA?
Right now that group is sysops, which I believe is just Wilbert & me. It should not be bothersome because most edits do not have external links.

[Fizick]

The previous registration fault was absent of e-mail confirmation.

[stickboy]

Hey, sorry I haven't been that active recently. I looked at the new mediawiki version of avisynth.org recently, and it certainly looks nice, but links to the old wiki pages are broken, because all the new stuff is under avisynth.org/mediawiki.

Would it be possible to redirect links to avisynth.org/index.php?foo to avisynth.org/oldwiki/index.php?foo ? Breaking links seems kind of bad.

[Richard Berg]

There's a redirect in place for URLs without "index.php" in them, e.g. http://avisynth.org/YourFirstScript

I'll see about adding another redirect when I return from vacation.

[Fizick]

We still need in help from users, in particular to detect and remove spam (from robots).

Procedure:
1. Check Wiki recent changes at
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Special:Recentchanges

2. check suspicious "contributions" (usually anonymous ip) by click on (diff)

3. If it is a spam, click on "undo" after current revison text at right top of screen.

4. agree with (undoing) changes by clicking on "Save page" at the bottom of text.


Of course you are also invited to make some other useful contributions to wiki, but as a other separate posting.

[Fizick]

Richard Berg,
please add CAPTCHA for not-registered user (at last for first post from this IP)

[Richard Berg]

CAPTCHA is turned on for all users now.

edit: except sysops.

[Fizick]

Richard Berg,
can you disable captcha for more wide group of real human users (include Fizick :))

[Adub]

Is the wiki down?
I can't access it. Keep getting 503 errors.

[Fizick]

Can anybody post to wiki?

I have got


Error 403

We're sorry, but we could not fulfill your request for /mediawiki/index.php?title=Troubleshooting&action=submit on this server.

Your Internet Protocol address is listed on a blacklist of addresses involved in malicious or illegal activity. See the listing below for more details on specific blacklists and removal procedures.
....

[Fizick]

Can anybody confirm?
Try edit any page and preview results.

seems, RichardB is busy with VSS2005 update ...

[niiyan]

@Fizick
I haven't had my account in avisynth.org yet.
So I tried to create it to confirm the error.
But the same 403 error as Fizick's occurred.
I couldn't create my account.

[Fizick]

Thanks for report.
So, it is general problem with wiki. :(
All users should update to Bad Behavior 2.0.11 immediately to prevent being blocked from your own site.

http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/2007/12/06/bad-behavior-2011/
On other side, spammers can not post too :)

[Richard Berg]

It should work now. Sorry about the delay :)

[Fizick]

Domain Name:AVISYNTH.ORG
Created On:05-Jul-2002 12:25:47 UTC
Last Updated On:06-Jul-2007 01:24:24 UTC
Expiration Date:05-Jul-2008 12:31:19 UTC

Registrant Name:Richard Berg

[mikeytown2]

Added more info to Levels_and_Chroma section in External_filters.
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Levels_and_Chroma

Let me know if I missed any useful ones.

[Fizick]

Domain Name:AVISYNTH.ORG
Created On:05-Jul-2002 12:25:47 UTC
Last Updated On:06-Jul-2008 01:21:56 UTC
Expiration Date:05-Jul-2009 12:31:19 UTC

Thanks, Richard!

[Gavino]

What is the policy about making changes to the wiki?
Is there a page that explains how to do it?

Occasionally I see things that I think could be improved, from simple typos to incomplete examples or even factual errors, but I don't want to step on anyone's toes by just jumping in and changing things. Or would it not let me do that anyway?
Do changes get approved by someone? What stops someone putting total rubbish in?

Forgive me if these are ignorant questions - I've never used a wiki-type environment before.

[mikeytown2]

@Gavino
Just start making changes! The magic of a wiki is the community will edit it. There is a captcha that prevents most spam, and user entered junk is rare. I would recommend making a username on the wiki so when someone visits the recent changes page (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Special:Recentchanges), they can associate a name to the edits instead of a "random" IP.

Read this as well
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Avisynth:Community_Portal#How_can_I_contribute_to_the_AviSynth_documentation_project.3F

I find wikipeda helpful for learning how to edit the wiki. Also clicking edit and looking at the pages is helpful as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page

[nikolai]

The entire mediawiki seems to be gone. I'm getting 404s for every page. I could swear I was looking at some of the pages just a few days ago.

On this page:
http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

There are links near the top for "fizick's filter stickboy's filter tsp's filter vcmohan's filter tritical's filter"
The 3 middle ones all have avisynth.org URLs and they are all returning 404 now too.

[Leak]

Ummm... looks like just about everything on avisynth.org is gone - what happened?

(avisynth.org returns a generated index page listing svnindex.css and svnindex.xsl, which are the default stylesheets used by Subversion - so I'd guess the web server setup got jumbled...)

np: Tocotronic - Du Und Deine Welt (Es Ist Egal, Aber)

[Fizick]

May be hosting is expired ? (three years since january 6, 2006 - first post at this topic)

With tracert IP is same as
http://apache2-cabo.seltzer.dreamhost.com/

[Wilbert]

It's working again! Will make a backup tomorrow.

[McCauley]

Added:
Stab (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Stab), YAHR (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/YAHR), GrainFactory3 (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/GrainFactory3), MinBlur (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/MinBlur), DePan (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Stabilization), Lanczosplusv3 (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Resizers), Super Slow Sharpen (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Sharpeners), new Debanding section (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Debanding), AnimeIVTC (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#IVTC_.26_Decimation), Toon (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Toon), DeHalo_alpha (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/DeHalo_alpha), vmtoon (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/VmToon), dfttest (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Spatio-Temporal_Denoisers), DeGrainMedian (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Spatio-Temporal_Denoisers), MVDegrain (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Temporal_Denoisers), SharpAAMCmod (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Anti-aliasing), GPUBilateral (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Spatial_Denoisers), new Duplicate Frame Detectors section (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Duplicate_Frame_Detectors), HybridFupp (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Multipurpose_Filters), NTSC tools (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Multipurpose_Filters) and GradFunkMirror (http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters#Debanding)
Feel free to edit these pages, they are not complete, potentially contain mistakes, but somebody has to start with something.

Regards
McCauley

[birdinred]

marked first.
i feel benifit from the VirtualDub and Avisynth script power and the people who are bihind both.so i decide to do something i can to feedback.here's a good chance to dive deeper and communicate into each other.

i need and i can do some "english2chinese" language transfer job about the doc and wiki,and how to do and when to start,will follow the porject leader as a teamer with proudness,before it ,i will read this subject to understand what's going on.

[jmac698]

To do serious documentation, I don't recommend editing online. Instead you can use these instructions:
Tested on Windows XP3
-Get http://www.wampserver.com/en/
-Install it
-Get http://www.mediawiki.org/
-Unzip to c:\wamp\www\mediawiki (mediwiki is a new directory)
-Ensure all files are moved from mediawiki-1.17\ to c:\wamp\www\mediawiki (this is just for convenience)
-Visit localhost/mediawiki
Answer the installation questions. It will be insecure, but this is for personal use. The password to mysql is root with no password. If you follow the installation, nothing else is needed. Accept all the defaults.
-Visit http://localhost/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
-Edit it. Add [[MyPlugin]] at the end.
-Visit http://localhost/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page again. Click the link for MyPlugin. You can now edit it locally, and quickly. When done, copy the contents of the edit box onto the internet wiki.

[jmac698]

How can I capture syntax color-coded text from C or Avisynth script?
Like this:

function shift(clip v, float x, float y) {
v#shift an image, x>0 shifts left, y>0 shifts up
bilinearresize(last.width,last.height,x,y,last.width,last.height)
}

[jmac698]

There seems to be a way to have the wiki automatically color code if you could upgrade the mediawiki software. Who has the keys to the server?

If there is ever to be hope of a serious documentation effort on the wiki, you need good support for it. Or maybe that's just not the way to go. One dedicated volunteer could write a pdf manual.

[Wilbert]

There seems to be a way to have the wiki automatically color code if you could upgrade the mediawiki software. Who has the keys to the server?

If there is ever to be hope of a serious documentation effort on the wiki, you need good support for it.
Sorry, that's not going to happen. Richard Berg is practically unreachable. I also don't see why you need that for a serious documentation effort, although i don't disagree that it will be more readable. I ported our wiki to a pdf once, but nobody wanted to maintain that.

I personally write new articles in html or just doc and copy it to wiki when it is ready. Perhaps that's a better way to go if you write something new. Aside that i'm very grateful that you are writing something about creating c plugins!!!

[jmac698]

I generally like to prepare to do things properly, if I have time, and if I were to write a professional document, certainly color coding would make that appearance. No it's not necessary. I'd like to see the whole wiki organized properly, the info is there but it's not categorized well. If you put some thought to it, there's a difference between searching when you know what you want and browsing to discover new information that might help you. Since the wiki allows sharing, wouldn't it be possible to import the whole project to another free service?

But by all means, I and we all have to thank Richard for his generosity in providing that server.

[jmac698]

Problem solved.
http://avisynthnew.wikinet.org/wiki/Avisynth_Plugin_Development_in_C

Now with syntax highlighting. Oh yeah, also the entire wiki has been imported. Is there anything not CC I should remove? And I'm willing to give out accounts to the community, so we never lose control of it.

[Gavino]

jmac698, I appreciate you're trying to be helpful, but this seems to be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, solving a 'problem' that no-one else cared about.

I don't wish to denigrate or discourage your efforts, but wouldn't your time have been better spent correcting the errors on that page, rather than making it look pretty?

[jmac698]

All that matters is I care :)

It doesn't matter. Call it my own wiki for personal use if you wish. I'm putting my new pages there instead.

[Wilbert]

@jmac698,

A pity that you removed your stuff from the wiki. Can I at least put it on our wiki when you have finished it?

If Richard's server runs into problem we can always move to that free server. It's this one (http://wikkii.com/wiki/Free_Wiki_Hosting) right? They seem to delete wikis though without giving people notice and doing a proper review (as you can read in the forums).

[jmac698]

It's on http://avisynthnew.wikinet.org/wiki/Avisynth_Plugin_Development_in_C
I'm using features that won't port to the avisynth wiki. You can try though, since I released CC. It's no problem really which server it's on, unless as you say it gets deleted.

There's actually a reason I won't put some of my stuff on Avisynth wiki as well; I don't agree that code should be licensed CC, it's simply not appropriate. The CC FAQ itself says so. Also the GPL FAQ says documentation should be in another license. So they both agree with each other.

I'm quite happy puttiing my stuff on this new server, I find it much easier to work with and I don't have to consult with any community over organization or format. I think I just need my own venue anyhow, there's been people tracking my forum posts across the internet in search of some restoration approach and I've never put it all together into one spot.

[Wilbert]

There's actually a reason I won't put some of my stuff on Avisynth wiki as well; I don't agree that code should be licensed CC, it's simply not appropriate.
I agree with that. Note that the SDK package is licensed under the GPL (and not CC). See http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Filter_SDK/SDK_license.

[jmac698]

Sure, you agree, but I had feedback when posting some code and had to remove it from the wiki. I can't find the history for that right now. It might have been my measure script.

[Wilbert]

but I had feedback when posting some code and had to remove it from the wiki.
These were scripts and not code snippets in de SDK package. You removed the scripts because you wanted to license them under the GPL.

[jmac698]

I'm confused by your response, are you saying scripts are not code, but documentation? In an educational sense, code snippets are certainly part of documentation; but to me, a standalone script is a piece of code to itself. Otherwise, javascript, vbscript, even all python programs could be considering documentation.
The GPL mentioned source as, the necesary files to create or change a program, roughly speaking.
Documention can describe code; an algorithm; but can't run it.

[jmac698]

After much trouble, I managed to finish one section of the new guide ;)
http://avisynthnew.wikinet.org/wiki/Avisynth_Plugin_Development_in_C#Compiling_Your_First_Plugin

[Wilbert]

I'm confused by your response, are you saying scripts are not code, but documentation?
I don't want to get into a philosofical argument whether a script can be considered to be code, or code can be considered to be documentation, since that's not relevant here for the discussion here. The main point is:

Everything which is located under http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Filter_SDK is licensed under the GPL (as you can read it in the link i posted). So you should have moved it there instead of the original location :)

Everything which is not located under http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Filter_SDK (so the rest of the wiki with the script snippets) is considered to be documentation and licensed under CC-SA 3.0.

I hope it's clear now ...

[jmac698]

Yes, that makes sense now! Thanks.